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Location: Gainesville, TX | Definitely check his back for soreness. Think about hocks/stifles as they are often a cause of back pain too. Maybe check teeth or think ulcers.
After that, you sort of have a couple options, have someone who can cowboy him and give him some saddle blankets or see what you can do at home. I see what I could do at home first. I'd saddle him up a couple hours or more before I wanted to ride. I'd lounge him or roundpen him (depending on your philosophy) until he was paying attention. I'd do a ton of desensitizing ground work with him. I'd tie him after I finished to think about it another hour or two and I'd do it every day or at least 5-6 out of 7.
If he doesn't come around, send him out for 30 to someone who specializes in buckers. If that doesn't work, down the road.
We have a six year old that is a bad mamajama at that bucking game. What made us to decide to invest in some extra training for him is that he is NOT A MEAN BUCKER. We had a bad experience with one trainer and him and he came back just scared of the world. He bucks because he's scared. He's still a nice horse and has a sweet heart so we decided to stick with him. He's been at Teryn Muench's who basically tied him out all day, saddled him a ton (including several times a day), and lunged him (including jumping over barrels and such), and then ground drove him, and then jumped on him. He never bucked once Teryn was in the saddle but he worked the dickens out of him. Took him a while but now he's at a point where's he's ready to go work some wheat pasture cattle and feed lots. He'll do that for a while. We're hoping by the time we get him back to have something we can work with. If he's still too much, we'll find him a home with someone that can handle his quirks. |
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 Extreme Veteran
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Location: Texas!! | Several years ago my SIL worked for John Deere and she got to go to a Chris Cox weekend deal at his place in Weatherford. I think someone would just bring 1 well know problem horse in the area and he worked with it. The one he had that weekend was a serious bucker, when it decided to buck. He lunged it with a lariat rope around its flanks and made it buck til it couldn't buck any more. Then he would make it buck even more! His goal was to wear it out and make it not like bucking, it was too much work. I don't know how it worked out in the long run, but by the end of the weekend that horse didn't want to buck any more...lol
Edited by rodeodelux 2015-07-09 12:27 PM
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Location: Gainesville, TX | ~BINGO~ - 2015-07-09 12:14 PM
ccarpe18 - 2015-07-09 10:05 AM If there is nothing wrong with him (back pain soreness or other above mentioned) & he still tried to buck like that... I would double bit him. If he is not listening when you pull him up, then I would have a backup bit. Typically you will see double bits in dressage, one just a snaffle & the other w/a shank. That or I would have a type of mechanical hackamore on him and use that as a backup. Just something where you can ride "normal" but still have the other option for "emergency" purposes. He may be learning if he bucks enough, it gets you off on days he doesn't want to work.Â
I mean it could just be another suggestion if you can't send him off, and don't want to sell him just yet.
 I've never heard of double bitting. That might be something to try. I was also wondering about the little doodad "anti buck" device that runs over the poll and to the bit to keep from getting the head down so far. But not sure how those fare?
These can work but they can cause some hellacious accidents if the horse panics and goes to flip over or something. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
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Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | oija - 2015-07-09 12:27 PM ~BINGO~ - 2015-07-09 12:14 PM ccarpe18 - 2015-07-09 10:05 AM If there is nothing wrong with him (back pain soreness or other above mentioned) & he still tried to buck like that... I would double bit him. If he is not listening when you pull him up, then I would have a backup bit. Typically you will see double bits in dressage, one just a snaffle & the other w/a shank. That or I would have a type of mechanical hackamore on him and use that as a backup. Just something where you can ride "normal" but still have the other option for "emergency" purposes. He may be learning if he bucks enough, it gets you off on days he doesn't want to work.
I mean it could just be another suggestion if you can't send him off, and don't want to sell him just yet. I've never heard of double bitting. That might be something to try. I was also wondering about the little doodad "anti buck" device that runs over the poll and to the bit to keep from getting the head down so far. But not sure how those fare? These can work but they can cause some hellacious accidents if the horse panics and goes to flip over or something.
I agree with the double bitting, if you not experience with using this please dont.  |
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  Expert
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Location: Central Texas | oija - 2015-07-09 12:24 PM
Definitely check his back for soreness. Think about hocks/stifles as they are often a cause of back pain too. Maybe check teeth or think ulcers.
After that, you sort of have a couple options, have someone who can cowboy him and give him some saddle blankets or see what you can do at home. I see what I could do at home first. I'd saddle him up a couple hours or more before I wanted to ride. I'd lounge him or roundpen him (depending on your philosophy) until he was paying attention. I'd do a ton of desensitizing ground work with him. I'd tie him after I finished to think about it another hour or two and I'd do it every day or at least 5-6 out of 7.
If he doesn't come around, send him out for 30 to someone who specializes in buckers. If that doesn't work, down the road.
We have a six year old that is a bad mamajama at that bucking game. What made us to decide to invest in some extra training for him is that he is NOT A MEAN BUCKER. We had a bad experience with one trainer and him and he came back just scared of the world. He bucks because he's scared. He's still a nice horse and has a sweet heart so we decided to stick with him. He's been at Teryn Muench's who basically tied him out all day, saddled him a ton (including several times a day), and lunged him (including jumping over barrels and such), and then ground drove him, and then jumped on him. He never bucked once Teryn was in the saddle but he worked the dickens out of him. Took him a while but now he's at a point where's he's ready to go work some wheat pasture cattle and feed lots. He'll do that for a while. We're hoping by the time we get him back to have something we can work with. If he's still too much, we'll find him a home with someone that can handle his quirks.
Teryn is a HAND! He grew up ranching in big rough country and he can dang sure get one to riding nice. |
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 Serious Snap Trapper
Posts: 4275
Location: In The Snow, AZ | rodeodelux - 2015-07-09 10:25 AM Several years ago my SIL worked for John Deere and she got to go to a Chris Cox weekend deal at his place in Weatherford. I think someone would just bring 1 well know problem horse in the area and he worked with it. The one he had that weekend was a serious bucker, when it decided to buck. He lunged it with a lariat rope around its flanks and made it buck til it couldn't buck any more. Then he would make it buck even more! His goal was to wear it out and make it not like bucking, it was too much work. I don't know how it worked out in the long run, but by the end of the weekend that horse didn't want to buck any more...lol
Am I awful for thinking that sounds like a good idea? I have a 90 foot round pen and could buck him out in there.... And just to ease some minds, I have been riding for 14 years and have worked with green horses, young horses and abused horses. I am by no means a professional, but I have had a decent amount of experience and I do my research before trying new things. Lol. But I do think this gelding may benefit from this. |
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Elite Veteran
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Location: SE KS | Longneck - 2015-07-09 10:38 AM
I'll be following this thread!!
I got bucked off pretty badly almost two weeks ago while breezing my gelding thru the pattern. He tried it again the next time I got on him (no pattern), but for the most part I can pull him up and stop him. I'm having a bone scan done because I think it is pain related in my case, but I lunged him on Tuesday and he STILL got fiesty on the lunge line. For my sake I will be lunging him before I get back on these next couple of times I ride him.
Could your gelding be cold backed? It might explain some his actions, but not the lead rope incident. Hope you get him figured out!
Â
I have a question for you on when you were lungeing him, when he started getting fiesty, what did you do?
I'm thinking of what I would do if one was fiesty on the end of a lunge line!!!! |
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Expert
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Location: Gainesville, TX | Marfan - 2015-07-09 1:02 PM
oija - 2015-07-09 12:24 PM
Definitely check his back for soreness. Think about hocks/stifles as they are often a cause of back pain too. Maybe check teeth or think ulcers.
After that, you sort of have a couple options, have someone who can cowboy him and give him some saddle blankets or see what you can do at home. I see what I could do at home first. I'd saddle him up a couple hours or more before I wanted to ride. I'd lounge him or roundpen him (depending on your philosophy) until he was paying attention. I'd do a ton of desensitizing ground work with him. I'd tie him after I finished to think about it another hour or two and I'd do it every day or at least 5-6 out of 7.
If he doesn't come around, send him out for 30 to someone who specializes in buckers. If that doesn't work, down the road.
We have a six year old that is a bad mamajama at that bucking game. What made us to decide to invest in some extra training for him is that he is NOT A MEAN BUCKER. We had a bad experience with one trainer and him and he came back just scared of the world. He bucks because he's scared. He's still a nice horse and has a sweet heart so we decided to stick with him. He's been at Teryn Muench's who basically tied him out all day, saddled him a ton (including several times a day), and lunged him (including jumping over barrels and such), and then ground drove him, and then jumped on him. He never bucked once Teryn was in the saddle but he worked the dickens out of him. Took him a while but now he's at a point where's he's ready to go work some wheat pasture cattle and feed lots. He'll do that for a while. We're hoping by the time we get him back to have something we can work with. If he's still too much, we'll find him a home with someone that can handle his quirks.
Teryn is a HAND! He grew up ranching in big rough country and he can dang sure get one to riding nice.
Yup and Teryn says ours is one of the worst he's had to mess with. He agreed with us that he is not mean (which is what he likes most about him), just scared. Took him 6 months to get that colt to the 30 day point so he could go cowboy. We really like the colt though. He's athletic and well bred. We still believe he's going to come along; we're just being patient. |
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 Take a Picture
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| I have a gelding who has never bucked. Never when he was broke or any other time. He did hump up some when he had EPM bu not out right buck. About 5 weeks ago he broke in two running to the first barrel. Turned out he had a wolf tooth that broke off when they were removed when he was 10 months old. He is 11 now. Teeth are extremely important and cause major problems |
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Veteran
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Location: Montgomery TX | ~BINGO~ - 2015-07-09 1:03 PM
rodeodelux - 2015-07-09 10:25 AM Several years ago my SIL worked for John Deere and she got to go to a Chris Cox weekend deal at his place in Weatherford. I think someone would just bring 1 well know problem horse in the area and he worked with it. The one he had that weekend was a serious bucker, when it decided to buck. He lunged it with a lariat rope around its flanks and made it buck til it couldn't buck any more. Then he would make it buck even more! His goal was to wear it out and make it not like bucking, it was too much work. I don't know how it worked out in the long run, but by the end of the weekend that horse didn't want to buck any more...lol
Am I awful for thinking that sounds like a good idea? I have a 90 foot round pen and could buck him out in there.... And just to ease some minds, I have been riding for 14 years and have worked with green horses, young horses and abused horses. I am by no means a professional, but I have had a decent amount of experience and I do my research before trying new things. Lol. But I do think this gelding may benefit from this.
If this is something you are interested in trying, Clinton Anderson had an episode on it just a couple weeks ago on RFDTV. Maybe you can google or youtube that episode - it was very informative about why/how he was doing each step in the process. I found it very interesting. Best of Luck to you!
Edited because it was Clinton Anderson, not Chris Cox....
Edited by bten 2015-07-09 2:05 PM
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Location: Central Texas | I have used the rope around the flanks on few in a round pen. It really does work. You MUST use a soft rope with a quick release type of honda and very little pressure. For me, the Clinton Anderson longe line works well. I learned on my first attempt that it is easy to draw blood on their flanks by using a rope that is too stiff. I would not want to do it with a horse on a longe line in case the horse gets to pulling away, which might cause me to pull too hard on the flank rope. Also, if they get away, then you have to unteach that!
Good Luck |
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Location: Central Texas | Another tool that I have used is a check rein running from the saddle horn to the crown piece of the headstall. If the horse bogs his head to buck, the bit will bite the corners of his mouth and they can't get their head down. That is uncomfortable and makes most of the stop bucking. I've ridden a few with it rigged up and that saved me, since I'm not a very good bronc rider. The only failing with this method is that some of them learn to buck with their head up! |
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 Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
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Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | The biggest thing that has saved my hiney with a bucker has been getting them soft in the face. That way I can catch them with a lot less effort before they get a jump on me. If I have to pull to get their head around they're not soft enough. I want them where I can barely pick up and their head comes around.
Another thing I would be doing is working on a lot of sacking out not only from the ground but also from above his head like from a pony horse or a fence. He needs to get used to ropes being all around his butt, under his tail, around his legs.
As far as lunging, I would work more on getting his mind than just wearing the edge off. You get a horse's mind you get their feet.
Another thing you can do is watch for that change through his back -- when you feel it, immediately change directions for a stride or two & then change again. That disrupts his thought. They show what they're thinking about before they actually do it through their body pretty much like we do through our expressions. The key is to be sensitive to it & watch for it. |
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 Elite Veteran
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Location: Canada | Honestly my opinion is the lead rope scared him a bit and he took that opportunity to be dirty. Horses don't spook in the pasture and put their head between their legs and buck -- they run away!
It doesn't sound like a pain issue more a behavioral one.
If he's getting a hold of his bit you may have it too loose. What type of bit are you riding him in?
Sounds like he needs a lot of wet saddle pads to know this isn't acceptable. Best of luck! |
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Rad Dork
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Location: Oklahoma | lhighquality - 2015-07-09 1:06 PM Longneck - 2015-07-09 10:38 AM I'll be following this thread!!
I got bucked off pretty badly almost two weeks ago while breezing my gelding thru the pattern. He tried it again the next time I got on him (no pattern), but for the most part I can pull him up and stop him. I'm having a bone scan done because I think it is pain related in my case, but I lunged him on Tuesday and he STILL got fiesty on the lunge line. For my sake I will be lunging him before I get back on these next couple of times I ride him.
Could your gelding be cold backed? It might explain some his actions, but not the lead rope incident. Hope you get him figured out!
I have a question for you on when you were lungeing him, when he started getting fiesty, what did you do? I'm thinking of what I would do if one was fiesty on the end of a lunge line!!!!
Luckily he reponds extremely well to voice cues! He lowered his head and started kicking out (not full on bucks, lol!) and I gave him a very stern "whoa" and he slowed back down to a trot. He only acts that way when he starts loping... lunge line, free range in the pasture or under saddle. |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Lost in the corn of Iowa. | Not to be the odd man out here, but it sounds like you don't have enough time to really get him rode down to where he is respecting you more. If he's not sore or have issues with his spine, it's behavioral. It will get worse if you can't get him out of it. And I'm with your husband on this one, sell that sucker to someone who wants that type of challenge. There are too many good horses out there to waste your time on one that will try to kill you. I had one I refused to give up on for 2 years. I finally sold her after a rotated spine (myself) and a broken collar bone later. I now have permanent damage and scars because I wouldn't give up on my bucker. I finally had had enough and she was sold. Again, there are too many nice nice horses out there, you shouldn't have to waste your time on one that is a knuckle head and will break in two on you at any time. It's not safe for you or for anyone else that might be around when that happens. |
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Location: somewhere up north | I don't understand how right away people ask if the horse is sore and that's why he bucked the way he did. Blame it on a treeless saddle or whatever. WHAT!?! My BROKE horses do not pile me, or take off and go to broncing on me when they have a sore back or ulcers. Nor do my 4 or 5 year olds. My hsuand rides in a tree saddle, I ride in a treeless. If that's how they react then they are headed down to road and finding a new zipcode! Some people have suggested a cowboy or round penning them. I totally agree with this. My husband has taken in a few horses with buck or cinchy type issues and also started several colts this year and what gets them through these type of scenarios is sacking out, working the crap out of them, giving to pressure and pushing them through difficult situations and then releasing. We use tarps, milk jugs and flags on the end of a stick, having them drag bike tires with rope, etc. One came to use two weeks ago and had dumped the girl hard a few times. She thought maybe saddle fit issue?? He's 5. He's also very quiet and tarps and such actually didn't bother him (most we get are pretty flighty about this stuff). The first 5 days he bucked like a son of a gun and my husband did put a rope around him and his flank and would put pressure and release and just worked him hard and let him buck until it wasn't fun anymore. He would finally stop bucking, then he would get on and ride him and he would work him hard again. Getting him soft in the face and respecting his cues. He rode him in 3 different saddles by the end with no lunging and yesterday his owner got on him and rode him around too with no issues. He neede someone to push his buttons and teach him respect. In the beginning he was lazy and would lope and do things so easy at the end he had the look like I am ready to work. I am listening. Big difference.
I see so many horses being put on the pattern and running and they can't lope a collected circle, give to pressure, haven't been sacked out and then they start falling apart and it must be because he's sore or has ulcers.
Long story short. Spend every day..even if it's 15 minutes and sack the crap out of him. Tie plastic bags to your saddle, lunge him with a tarp on him, do whatever you can on the ground to put him through his paces to keep yourself safe. Then get on him and use all these same mechanisms in the round pen until he gives you every reason to believe he trusts and respects you. Good luck!! Stay safe!!! :)
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Serious Snap Trapper
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Location: In The Snow, AZ | Girls_Gotta_Jet - 2015-07-09 12:20 PM
Not to be the odd man out here, but it sounds like you don't have enough time to really get him rode down to where he is respecting you more. If he's not sore or have issues with his spine, it's behavioral. It will get worse if you can't get him out of it. And I'm with your husband on this one, sell that sucker to someone who wants that type of challenge. There are too many good horses out there to waste your time on one that will try to kill you. I had one I refused to give up on for 2 years. I finally sold her after a rotated spine (myself) and a broken collar bone later. I now have permanent damage and scars because I wouldn't give up on my bucker. I finally had had enough and she was sold. Again, there are too many nice nice horses out there, you shouldn't have to waste your time on one that is a knuckle head and will break in two on you at any time. It's not safe for you or for anyone else that might be around when that happens.
 I absolutely agree that I haven't had enough time. 100%. I do agree that it is a behavioral problem as well. I think he takes the opportunity, as someone else had said, to be dirty. I understand that it is my fault for not spending enough time working with him. We got him just before winter hit. So didn't ride much due to the snow and ice. Started working with him back in the spring. Then we had really weird monsoon weather super early on, as did a lot of people. And it wasn't worth sloshing and sliding in the mud. And now my daughters at home non stop. Lol. I was hoping I could get by with a ride here and there until school started back. But he's showing me that's not the case. I'm just going to have to start setting time aside every day to saddle, work him and tie him up. Maybe we can get somewhere, maybe I'll have to send him down the road. |
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Serious Snap Trapper
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Location: In The Snow, AZ | chasincansMN - 2015-07-09 1:42 PM
I don't understand how right away people ask if the horse is sore and that's why he bucked the way he did. Blame it on a treeless saddle or whatever. WHAT!?! My BROKE horses do not pile me, or take off and go to broncing on me when they have a sore back or ulcers. Nor do my 4 or 5 year olds. My hsuand rides in a tree saddle, I ride in a treeless. If that's how they react then they are headed down to road and finding a new zipcode! Some people have suggested a cowboy or round penning them. I totally agree with this. My husband has taken in a few horses with buck or cinchy type issues and also started several colts this year and what gets them through these type of scenarios is sacking out, working the crap out of them, giving to pressure and pushing them through difficult situations and then releasing.  We use tarps, milk jugs and flags on the end of a stick, having them drag bike tires with rope, etc. One came to use two weeks ago and had dumped the girl hard a few times. She thought maybe saddle fit issue?? He's 5. He's also very quiet and tarps and such actually didn't bother him (most we get are pretty flighty about this stuff). The first 5 days he bucked like a son of a gun and my husband did put a rope around him and his flank and would put pressure and release and just worked him hard and let him buck until it wasn't fun anymore. He would finally stop bucking, then he would get on and ride him and he would work him hard again. Getting him soft in the face and respecting his cues. He rode him in 3 different saddles by the end with no lunging and yesterday his owner got on him and rode him around too with no issues. He neede someone to push his buttons and teach him respect. In the beginning he was lazy and would lope and do things so easy at the end he had the look like I am ready to work. I am listening. Big difference.
I see so many horses being put on the pattern and running and they can't lope a collected circle, give to pressure, haven't been sacked out and then they start falling apart and it must be because he's sore or has ulcers.
Long story short. Spend every day..even if it's 15 minutes and sack the crap out of him. Tie plastic bags to your saddle, lunge him with a tarp on him, do whatever you can on the ground to put him through his paces to keep yourself safe. Then get on him and use all these same mechanisms in the round pen until he gives you every reason to believe he trusts and respects you. Good luck!! Stay safe!!! :)
Â
 Thank you! I appreciate this. I think I'm realizing that maybe I need to dumb it down a bit and focus back on the basics. Start from the ground up. It doesn't seem like enough time was ever spent there. |
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Expert
Posts: 2489
Location: somewhere up north | ~BINGO~ - 2015-07-09 3:52 PM chasincansMN - 2015-07-09 1:42 PM I don't understand how right away people ask if the horse is sore and that's why he bucked the way he did. Blame it on a treeless saddle or whatever. WHAT!?! My BROKE horses do not pile me, or take off and go to broncing on me when they have a sore back or ulcers. Nor do my 4 or 5 year olds. My hsuand rides in a tree saddle, I ride in a treeless. If that's how they react then they are headed down to road and finding a new zipcode! Some people have suggested a cowboy or round penning them. I totally agree with this. My husband has taken in a few horses with buck or cinchy type issues and also started several colts this year and what gets them through these type of scenarios is sacking out, working the crap out of them, giving to pressure and pushing them through difficult situations and then releasing. We use tarps, milk jugs and flags on the end of a stick, having them drag bike tires with rope, etc. One came to use two weeks ago and had dumped the girl hard a few times. She thought maybe saddle fit issue?? He's 5. He's also very quiet and tarps and such actually didn't bother him (most we get are pretty flighty about this stuff). The first 5 days he bucked like a son of a gun and my husband did put a rope around him and his flank and would put pressure and release and just worked him hard and let him buck until it wasn't fun anymore. He would finally stop bucking, then he would get on and ride him and he would work him hard again. Getting him soft in the face and respecting his cues. He rode him in 3 different saddles by the end with no lunging and yesterday his owner got on him and rode him around too with no issues. He neede someone to push his buttons and teach him respect. In the beginning he was lazy and would lope and do things so easy at the end he had the look like I am ready to work. I am listening. Big difference.
I see so many horses being put on the pattern and running and they can't lope a collected circle, give to pressure, haven't been sacked out and then they start falling apart and it must be because he's sore or has ulcers.
Long story short. Spend every day..even if it's 15 minutes and sack the crap out of him. Tie plastic bags to your saddle, lunge him with a tarp on him, do whatever you can on the ground to put him through his paces to keep yourself safe. Then get on him and use all these same mechanisms in the round pen until he gives you every reason to believe he trusts and respects you. Good luck!! Stay safe!!! :)
Thank you! I appreciate this. I think I'm realizing that maybe I need to dumb it down a bit and focus back on the basics. Start from the ground up. It doesn't seem like enough time was ever spent there.
You might think it's dumbing it down, but really he will be so much better for it and it will make riding him way more enjoyable. Let him stand tied with the saddle on for an hour or two while you spend time with your daughter. Not sure how old she is..but maybe when she goes to bed then you can go out and work with him on round pen stuff. If you just spend 15 mins a day doing it in the long run will make him an awesome horse. |
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