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 Expert
Posts: 5293
  
| RoaniePonie11 - 2015-07-20 6:32 AM
Wowza. Dont eat me. I don't think my question is all that out of sight. Feeding low starch, low volume feed by a reputable company that also produces cattle feed or med starch, high volume feed by a reputable company that doesn't.
How many people feed safe choice, omolene, mare & foal ect.... With healthy horses? I'm not talking about putting rat poison in their feed. I realize the dangers of ionophore. That's why I now feed blue bonnet but I also have worse looking horses on larger amounts of grain. While the nutrena may kill them slowly with poison, high grain volume is not helping the gastric system and ulcers make them miserable....
Idk it's all a big cluster to me. That's why I aksed opinions. It's not so much the $$ that bothers me as the 5-7# of grain a day with still seeing the shadow of their ribs...on grass pasture with free choice hay...
I'm not jumping on you here WHAT SO EVER!!! I am in the SAME BOAT as you, and quite frankly at my wits end over the whole feed mess!!! I went to RG, didnt work, went to Ultium, made my horses TO HOT, Tried several Ionophore free feeds, bought like months worth at a time. When I ran out, feed stores quit carrying it. Major PITA. My horses looked and felt Great, with perfect energy levels on the Safechoice origional. SO thats what I went back to. SO far so good. I do feed forco to both of them and a fat supplement to my one hard-er keeper. I am so sick and tired of trying to track down feed. lol SO I feel your pain. It has come to a point that I am so frustrated. I literally almost walked up to friends of mine at a barrel race and handed them the leadropes of my two 1D horses and said " Have at it" here are my horses for free so I could go home and not have to worry about horse feed. I think it has taken 5 years off my life for simple stress. | |
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  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | I have moved to whole oats once daily, just enough to mix my Cur-Ost supplement in. Everything else they get from the alfalfa/grass hay and pasture. With the Cur-Ost, I know that my horse's gut is healthy and in a position to absorb what they are consuming, along with treating the respiratory issues my one horse has. Cheapest my feed program has ever been right now, because they are actually utilizing what they're eating. No more ulcer meds, probiotics, prebiotics, joint supplements, weight gain supplements, etc. I'm so happy I tried the Cur-Ost....what it has single handedly done for my horses is pretty remarkable.
Flitastic, I promise you that if you would try this stuff, and take one horse off of everything else, you will see the difference. You won't need to buy any other supplement. I know it seems expensive, and it is for the first month due to the need to double dose, but it's so worth it!
Edited by Herbie 2015-07-20 11:02 AM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| If you are looking at cost cutting try mixing your own
When my bags are done I am looking at mixing my own
I will start with soaked barley (my understanding horses can't break the shell)
Whole oats
Flax
Depending on how this goes, may add alfalfa pellets.
Also look at the hay you are feeding, as I do believe a "grain" shouldn't be what makes a horse look good, I feed it more as a treat, or to give supplements. Your hay and grass should be enough to have a fat horse, so maybe increase the quality of the hay. | |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
 
| Oh man I hear ya. I did not know ionophore was a faster- killing poison I thought it was something that built up over time after feeding low doses (on accident).
I went ahead and stocked up 2 weeks worth of BB to give the BB + FORCO a shot. I really like the look of the BB Intensify on paper. The copper, protein, fat, starch, especially the probiotics. Anywho, we'll see. Surprisingly my ulcer prone horse is doing the best on it. The FORCO horse (big racey gelding) looks like poop IMO. | |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | I would never feed any feed they could have ionophore contamination. My horses are EVERYTHING to me. Surely you should be able to find some other feeds in your area? Even with my tractor supply and a couple little others I get Renew Gold, alfalfa pellets, and whole oats. To fill in any nutritional holes out address specific issues I use supplements like THE or smartpaks. | |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Bibliafarm - 2015-07-20 10:20 AM RoaniePonie11 - 2015-07-20 9:32 AM Wowza. Dont eat me. I don't think my question is all that out of sight. Feeding low starch, low volume feed by a reputable company that also produces cattle feed or med starch, high volume feed by a reputable company that doesn't. How many people feed safe choice, omolene, mare & foal ect.... With healthy horses? I'm not talking about putting rat poison in their feed. I realize the dangers of ionophore. That's why I now feed blue bonnet but I also have worse looking horses on larger amounts of grain. While the nutrena may kill them slowly with poison, high grain volume is not helping the gastric system and ulcers make them miserable.... Idk it's all a big cluster to me. That's why I aksed opinions. It's not so much the $$ that bothers me as the 5-7# of grain a day with still seeing the shadow of their ribs...on grass pasture with free choice hay... Poison is Poison .. revise your HAY
That's what I was going to say. Every feed program should be forage based with concentrates added on an as-needed basis. If you're feeding that much grain and have thin horses, look at your hay quality and quantity first and work through your program from there. | |
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Expert
Posts: 5293
| Herbie - 2015-07-20 8:55 AM
I have moved to whole oats once daily, just enough to mix my Cur-Ost supplement in.  Everything else they get from the alfalfa/grass hay and pasture. With the Cur-Ost, I know that my horse's gut is healthy and in a position to absorb what they are consuming, along with treating the respiratory issues my one horse has. Cheapest my feed program has ever been right now, because they are actually utilizing what they're eating. No more ulcer meds, probiotics, prebiotics, joint supplements, weight gain supplements, etc. I'm so happy I tried the Cur-Ost....what it has single handedly done for my horses is pretty remarkable.Â
Flitastic, I promise you that if you would try this stuff, and take one horse off of everything else, you will see the difference. You won't need to buy any other supplement. I know it seems expensive, and it is for the first month due to the need to double dose, but it's so worth it!
Â
I might go with total control. But my colt still is not a fan of whole oats. lol | |
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 Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | RoaniePonie11 - 2015-07-20 11:01 AM Oh man I hear ya. I did not know ionophore was a faster- killing poison I thought it was something that built up over time after feeding low doses (on accident). I went ahead and stocked up 2 weeks worth of BB to give the BB + FORCO a shot. I really like the look of the BB Intensify on paper. The copper, protein, fat, starch, especially the probiotics. Anywho, we'll see. Surprisingly my ulcer prone horse is doing the best on it. The FORCO horse (big racey gelding) looks like poop IMO.
I am not sure, I bet RG can answer more accurately. I think the only true studies of long and low dosing/exposure in horses are from the mfg of rumensin? And they are who set the supposed non lethal levels. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Try to find a local mill that mixes feed, but does not mix any medicated feed on the premises.
This is what my boarding stable does. Very cost effective and my horse is far from skinny. Lol | |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| cheryl makofka - 2015-07-20 10:59 AM
If you are looking at cost cutting try mixing your own
When my bags are done I am looking at mixing my own
I will start with soaked barley (my understanding horses can't break the shell)
Whole oats
Flax
Depending on how this goes, may add alfalfa pellets.
Also look at the hay you are feeding, as I do believe a "grain" shouldn't be what makes a horse look good, I feed it more as a treat, or to give supplements. Your hay and grass should be enough to have a fat horse, so maybe increase the quality of the hay.
Not so much cost cutting but volume cutting (cost would be nice lol). I work at a feed store that makes custom mixes but it just makes me nervous. I would have to do tons of research before I took that on.
I know what you mean about the grain/ hay quality. My grass is not the greatest, but they are turned out 24/7 with access to a very nice grass hay and now I am feeding baked alfalfa twice a day, just 1 flake. We shall see where we go from here.
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | RoaniePonie11 - 2015-07-20 11:49 AM cheryl makofka - 2015-07-20 10:59 AM If you are looking at cost cutting try mixing your own When my bags are done I am looking at mixing my own I will start with soaked barley (my understanding horses can't break the shell) Whole oats Flax Depending on how this goes, may add alfalfa pellets. Also look at the hay you are feeding, as I do believe a "grain" shouldn't be what makes a horse look good, I feed it more as a treat, or to give supplements. Your hay and grass should be enough to have a fat horse, so maybe increase the quality of the hay. Not so much cost cutting but volume cutting (cost would be nice lol ). I work at a feed store that makes custom mixes but it just makes me nervous. I would have to do tons of research before I took that on. I know what you mean about the grain/ hay quality. My grass is not the greatest, but they are turned out 24/7 with access to a very nice grass hay and now I am feeding baked alfalfa twice a day, just 1 flake. We shall see where we go from here.
Edited by barrelracr131 2015-07-20 11:52 AM
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | TurnLane - 2015-07-20 10:35 AM I have a dear friend who who switched to BB when she moved. She fed it for 6 months and was not at all impressed with the results. She now feeds a purina product. I like the BHR to read what the winners feed, I always find that interesting, especially since so many do feed Purina. Think Charlie Cole and Jason Martin, Slick By Design and Skye off the top of my head.
But I know plenty of others who get along fine with BB. They have a great reputation. But if you want to get technical, they use molasses from one of the nations largest liquid feed makers and liquid feed is ionophores most often, actually the largest distributor of medicated feeds over any mill. So if ionophore free is the ONLY safe feed, then I am not sure how you can say molasses is safe in any feed. Since it is up to humans to clean out their trucks before they deliver molasses (and you should see some of the truckers!). I am not sure of their cleanout process but I would have to see it with my own eyes. Like the always wise SG said, Ionophore poisoning isn't a slow poison- what has been seen so far is 98% of confirmed cases, the horses died very quickly.
That being said, I might suggest a straight grain with no molasses. Or maybe an oil based mix or topical for fat if needed?
We too love the Omnis alfalfa cubes!! But I will be honest, we have fed maybe 5 different brands of feeds in 17 years and our horses always look as good if not better than most, IMO. So I think it is the hay we feed that is most important. 
Edited by Nevertooold 2015-07-20 11:52 AM
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | RoaniePonie11 - 2015-07-20 11:49 AM cheryl makofka - 2015-07-20 10:59 AM If you are looking at cost cutting try mixing your own When my bags are done I am looking at mixing my own I will start with soaked barley (my understanding horses can't break the shell) Whole oats Flax Depending on how this goes, may add alfalfa pellets. Also look at the hay you are feeding, as I do believe a "grain" shouldn't be what makes a horse look good, I feed it more as a treat, or to give supplements. Your hay and grass should be enough to have a fat horse, so maybe increase the quality of the hay. Not so much cost cutting but volume cutting (cost would be nice lol ). I work at a feed store that makes custom mixes but it just makes me nervous. I would have to do tons of research before I took that on. I know what you mean about the grain/ hay quality. My grass is not the greatest, but they are turned out 24/7 with access to a very nice grass hay and now I am feeding baked alfalfa twice a day, just 1 flake. We shall see where we go from here.
I would increase the alfalfa to at least two flakes and see how they look. | |
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Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | barrelracr131 - 2015-07-20 11:44 AM Try to find a local mill that mixes feed, but does not mix any medicated feed on the premises.
This is what my boarding stable does. Very cost effective and my horse is far from skinny. Lol
This is where it gets confusing, even if they do not mix medicated feeds- it does not mean they dont bring in product to add to their mix that is from a medicated facility- nor does it mean they test their corn. So molasses being the number one suspect ingredient brought in to facilities that otherwise would be med free. Premixes and minerals being second. | |
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Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | Nevertooold - 2015-07-20 11:51 AM TurnLane - 2015-07-20 10:35 AM I have a dear friend who who switched to BB when she moved. She fed it for 6 months and was not at all impressed with the results. She now feeds a purina product. I like the BHR to read what the winners feed, I always find that interesting, especially since so many do feed Purina. Think Charlie Cole and Jason Martin, Slick By Design and Skye off the top of my head.
But I know plenty of others who get along fine with BB. They have a great reputation. But if you want to get technical, they use molasses from one of the nations largest liquid feed makers and liquid feed is ionophores most often, actually the largest distributor of medicated feeds over any mill. So if ionophore free is the ONLY safe feed, then I am not sure how you can say molasses is safe in any feed. Since it is up to humans to clean out their trucks before they deliver molasses (and you should see some of the truckers!). I am not sure of their cleanout process but I would have to see it with my own eyes. Like the always wise SG said, Ionophore poisoning isn't a slow poison-
what has been seen so far is 98% of confirmed cases, the horses died very quickly.
That being said, I might suggest a straight grain with no molasses. Or maybe an oil based mix or topical for fat if needed?
We too love the Omnis alfalfa cubes!! But I will be honest, we have fed maybe 5 different brands of feeds in 17 years and our horses always look as good if not better than most, IMO. So I think it is the hay we feed that is most important.
I agree, but I also think those making a living up and down the road care about what their horses eat as much as we do so if it was not what they thought was safe, I doubt they would even care if it was free, they wouldnt feed it? | |
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Expert
Posts: 5293
| TurnLane - 2015-07-20 10:15 AM
Nevertooold - 2015-07-20 11:51 AM TurnLane - 2015-07-20 10:35 AM I have a dear friend who who switched to BB when she moved. She fed it for 6 months and was not at all impressed with the results. She now feeds a purina product. I like the BHR to read what the winners feed, I always find that interesting, especially since so many do feed Purina. Think Charlie Cole and Jason Martin, Slick By Design and Skye off the top of my head.
But I know plenty of others who get along fine with BB. They have a great reputation. But if you want to get technical, they use molasses from one of the nations largest liquid feed makers and liquid feed is ionophores most often, actually the largest distributor of medicated feeds over any mill. So if ionophore free is the ONLY safe feed, then I am not sure how you can say molasses is safe in any feed. Since it is up to humans to clean out their trucks before they deliver molasses (and you should see some of the truckers!). I am not sure of their cleanout process but I would have to see it with my own eyes. Like the always wise SG said,  Ionophore poisoning isn't a slow poison-
what has been seen so far is 98% of confirmed cases, the horses died very quickly.
That being said, I might suggest a straight grain with no molasses. Or maybe an oil based mix or topical for fat if needed?
We too love the Omnis alfalfa cubes!! But I will be honest, we have fed maybe 5 different brands of feeds in 17 years and our horses always look as good if not better than most, IMO. So I think it is the hay we feed that is most important.
Â
My thoughts exactly!!! | |
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 A Barrel Of Monkeys
Posts: 12972
Location: Texas | My horses have done well on Country Acres 12/8. It is made by Purina and costs $10-$11 a bag. I also feed alfalfa.
There are other mills that make cost effective feed and use zero medications in their feeds. (Red River Feeds in Oklahoma). | |
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Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | TDove- remove the response I guess? I was going to respectfully disagree but I do bet there are half that might sell out without question.
Fun2Run, that is what my friend who fed BB moved to and she spends more in a year on stud fees than I make. She takes nutrition very seriously. She had a nutrtionist on staff at one time. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | Yes I did. Figured there is no reason to put my two cents in on yet another feed post. I am sure we agree that sponsorship plays a big role. One point that I did think is valid as that just because they are going down the road and are professionals, doesn't necessarily make them more educated or knowledgeable than anyone else. I take what professionals use with a grain of salt. There is so much that goes into what is "best" for equine nutrition.
Edited by Tdove 2015-07-20 2:57 PM
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Tdove - 2015-07-20 2:55 PM
Yes I did. Figured there is no reason to put my two cents in on yet another feed post. I am sure we agree that sponsorship plays a big role. One point that I did think is valid as that just because they are going down the road and are professionals, doesn't necessarily make them more educated or knowledgeable than anyone else. I take what professionals use with a grain of salt. There is so much that goes into what is "best" for equine nutrition.
I agree with Tdove, but I think if they are not as educated as they could be, it may also be due to the fact that they don't have the time to research like we do when they are on the road. | |
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