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Extreme Veteran
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| scwebster - 2015-07-24 8:40 AM
I didnt realize Sherri was selling embyos from Stingray. I knew she had used some for herself. Very interesting. I also think he is worth more as a prospect than he is a breeding option...until he proves himself of course.
She isn't
She sold 1
to Charlie and Jason
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 372
| BamaCanChaser - 2015-07-24 10:55 AM
Guido - 2015-07-24 9:48 AM
One hand he is affordable now, but its early to commit for 2016 breeding season. Seems like one of those things where he already has a proven bloodline and (at least to me) he has very balanced confirmation and if you wait for him to be proven in the arena and then wait for him to be proven as a sire, you won't be able to afford him. So its just one of the risks of the business. Wait for a more proven and established stud or take a risk. Heck something horrible could happen and this is the only year he's able to breed or he could go out and place last in everything. Just how you wanna gamble, because seems like horses are always a gamble!
I wouldn't be so sure that he would be unaffordable in the years to come. Charlie and Jason certainly could have limited Slick's book by now and raised the price on stud fees but haven't. They have commented before that they want him to be an affordable stallion choice for barrel racers not just to the elite class.
Elitism is a good thing.
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 Extreme Veteran
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Location: Loma Linda, CA | Just logged in to all these awesome responses.
I also really like that the female line is being more focused on.
There are so many 'broodmares' out there that don't do anything. It IS way more work to make a mare proven then just rely on her lines and pop out a baby, but I think in the end it might do something for the industry if we focus on both aspects (proven performing stud + mare).
Not all will be great amazing horses, but I think it will shift the genetics, but on the other side it might become harder for us regular folks to break into the industry with such top named horses out there.
Or will it mud down the prices because it will be more common?
Hmmmm..? Economics - not my thing haha |
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Extreme Veteran
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| Phxbarrel - 2015-07-24 12:47 PM Just logged in to all these awesome responses. I also really like that the female line is being more focused on. There are so many 'broodmares' out there that don't do anything. It IS way more work to make a mare proven then just rely on her lines and pop out a baby, but I think in the end it might do something for the industry if we focus on both aspects (proven performing stud + mare). Not all will be great amazing horses, but I think it will shift the genetics, but on the other side it might become harder for us regular folks to break into the industry with such top named horses out there. Or will it mud down the prices because it will be more common? Hmmmm..? Economics - not my thing haha
When you said this I think all these amazing crosses make it very hard to find a super amazing prospect. A lot of horses are just so talented out there. I get very overwhelmed myself. Lol.
I was like,,,,,,,,Huh?
then you came back with the last one and now I'm really confused.
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | arion - 2015-07-24 1:14 PM Phxbarrel - 2015-07-24 12:47 PM Just logged in to all these awesome responses. I also really like that the female line is being more focused on. There are so many 'broodmares' out there that don't do anything. It IS way more work to make a mare proven then just rely on her lines and pop out a baby, but I think in the end it might do something for the industry if we focus on both aspects (proven performing stud + mare). Not all will be great amazing horses, but I think it will shift the genetics, but on the other side it might become harder for us regular folks to break into the industry with such top named horses out there. Or will it mud down the prices because it will be more common? Hmmmm..? Economics - not my thing haha
When you said this
I think all these amazing crosses make it very hard to find a super amazing prospect. A lot of horses are just so talented out there. I get very overwhelmed myself. Lol.
I was like,,,,,,,,Huh?
then you came back with the last one and now I'm really confused.
^^ Thanks... those posts made me cross eyed..
I really like him.
How can a larger availability of better bred horses be a bad thing. It's called the law of supply and demand, the more there are, the less expensive it will be to get a decent prospect.
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Loma Linda, CA | My wording was awful...
I meant with all the amazing talent it makes it hard to choose :P Every foaling season I am looking at all these amazing prospects... ultimately I can't choose one cause I have no idea which one will be that magic superstar! Hhaha! I had looked at FWF, ASOF, Corona Cartel, DTF etc... and I get overwhelmed with all the choices.
Not hard to find haha! Sorry! I had just woken up... still had my sleepy eyes on! |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
 
Location: In the Hills of Texas | I just went and looked at him and I don't see stallion at all...I see decent gelding. Don't shoot me but I don't see why I should lie..JMHO |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
| I manage a race horse farm and the trainers laugh at barrel racers bc we care more about the stud than the dam. They're all about mare power. The market is flooded with well bred prospects already. Having more well bred prospects will only water down the market more. We have a huge supply of well bred prospects but not enough demand and that's why you see so many sitting on the market for so long. My barrel horse has black type all over his papers out of proven FDD/Runaway Winner stud with multiple brothers (the stud)winning well over a million dollars out of Reckless Dash and proven TB mare, BUT my boy never broke his maiden. He took 2nd a few times and could run but he didn't like the gates, being bumped and if you whip him he shuts down. My point breeding is a gamble. He's a solid 1/2 d barrel horse but he hated the track. They don't know they're supposed to run barrels or run the track. They have to have the want to.
Sire statistics are greatly skewed for instance as of June 30 pyc paint your wagon is # 1 Sire of 2 yr olds with 303 starters earning over 2 million VS Hard Hitting at #50 with only 35 starters with earnings at just over 275,000. Same principles applies to barrel horses, if you have 200 dtf running and reporting to equistat vs 20 ivory James the earnings will most likely be way higher for dtf get this making the dtf more successful and more valuable. However, I try to look at the big picture not just the money earned but the #s as a whole. Everyone who has a horse with dtf on the papers tries to market them using his producing statistics. I've seen PLENTY of dtf running in the 3d. |
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Regular
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| To answer some questions...
1) We purchased an embryo out of Stingray. Looking back I don't know how we got so lucky, must have asked on the right day! We are very very thankful for them thinking highly enough of our program to allow us this opportunity. ( We also have a DTF x Firewater Fiesta 2 yr old stud colt)
2) We are only dong frozen so it will not interfere with his training.
3) He is in training with cow horse trainer Ron Rolls. I want him broke broke broke. He is a very nice mover and moves low to the ground. He will spend his entire 2 yr old year getting the best foundation we can offer him.
4) We have every intention on proving him in the arena!
5) We know people are taking a chance on breeding to an unproven young sire and that is why his stud fee is reasonable. In the race horse world the mare line is VERY important. We feel like as the barrel industry keeps evolving we will find this to be the case. Time will tell!
6) So far Stinger shows a lot of natural tallent and is great minded!
7) We are having more pics done of him in August and will also post some training videos online as he progresses! Thanks to everyone for the positive feedback and understanding on what we are trying to acomplish with our breeding program!
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Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | westrnridr - 2015-07-24 3:21 PM To answer some questions... 1) We purchased an embryo out of Stingray. Looking back I don't know how we got so lucky, must have asked on the right day! We are very very thankful for them thinking highly enough of our program to allow us this opportunity. ( We also have a DTF x Firewater Fiesta 2 yr old stud colt) 2) We are only dong frozen so it will not interfere with his training. 3) He is in training with cow horse trainer Ron Rolls. I want him broke broke broke. He is a very nice mover and moves low to the ground. He will spend his entire 2 yr old year getting the best foundation we can offer him. 4) We have every intention on proving him in the arena! 5) We know people are taking a chance on breeding to an unproven young sire and that is why his stud fee is reasonable. In the race horse world the mare line is VERY important. We feel like as the barrel industry keeps evolving we will find this to be the case. Time will tell! 6) So far Stinger shows a lot of natural tallent and is great minded! 7) We are having more pics done of him in August and will also post some training videos online as he progresses! Thanks to everyone for the positive feedback and understanding on what we are trying to acomplish with our breeding program!
He's going to be super nice.....Ron will put an incredible foundation on him. |
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 Expert
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Location: Royal J Performance Horses, AZ | Now, let me be clear. Just like everyone else I am ECSTATIC about these horses coming along out of some of the best mares in our industry.
But a lot of horses have been bred just based off bloodlines with an unproven dam and they have gone on to do some pretty good business.
You don't know what a cross will produce until it produces! (So to speak)
With breeding being a gamble as it is, of course we as breeders want the absolute best we can afford.
On the topic of this guy that's in question, I Like him and i plan to keep an eye on him. That being said there are tons of stallions out there at $1500 that are proven performers and coming up to being producers. (Streaking Ta Fame was an prime example of this)
and even Slick By Design. I mean $2,000 for everything he's done? That's amazing for HPPH to keep his fee reasonable for folks.
Like i said, I'm going to see how he does, and then maybe, just maybe i'll have one in my barn in the future! =) |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 428
Location: God's country | I agree that the mare plays a large part in the foal. We are just getting our program started and can't afford the FG DTF mares yet. We have bought correct race horse mares that have run on the track. We bought some of the mares with babies by local stallions on their side. We saved our money and bred to EL and SBD and I have to say babies by the same mares when bred to the stallions are phenomenal. As for my 2 cents, I believe the stallions are almost equal in importance to the mares. |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Loma Linda, CA | I for one am super excited about what you guys are doing for the industry!
I do admit, I get caught up in lines and names - but I really feel something special about this cross.
I hope to have a mare good enough to breed to him! :D I'd take the chance! |
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Regular
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| New pictures of Stinger |
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 Peecans
| I requested a contract acatualy .... IDK im tempted. However my neighbour has a 3/4 brother to him thats a year younger. Just out of a different denaro daughter.... might just wait until hes ready to breed to try that kind of cross. |
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Veteran
Posts: 183
Location: Wyoming | iloveequine40 - 2015-07-25 2:05 PM
I manage a race horse farm and the trainers laugh at barrel racers bc we care more about the stud than the dam. They're all about mare power. The market is flooded with well bred prospects already. Having more well bred prospects will only water down the market more. We have a huge supply of well bred prospects but not enough demand and that's why you see so many sitting on the market for so long. My barrel horse has black type all over his papers out of proven FDD/Runaway Winner stud with multiple brothers (the stud)winning well over a million dollars out of Reckless Dash and proven TB mare, BUT my boy never broke his maiden. He took 2nd a few times and could run but he didn't like the gates, being bumped and if you whip him he shuts down. My point breeding is a gamble. He's a solid 1/2 d barrel horse but he hated the track. They don't know they're supposed to run barrels or run the track. They have to have the want to.
Sire statistics are greatly skewed for instance as of June 30 pyc paint your wagon is # 1 Sire of 2 yr olds with 303 starters earning over 2 million VS Hard Hitting at #50 with only 35 starters with earnings at just over 275,000. Same principles applies to barrel horses, if you have 200 dtf running and reporting to equistat vs 20 ivory James the earnings will most likely be way higher for dtf get this making the dtf more successful and more valuable. However, I try to look at the big picture not just the money earned but the #s as a whole. Everyone who has a horse with dtf on the papers tries to market them using his producing statistics. I've seen PLENTY of dtf running in the 3d.
I agree look at the numbers that tells the true story. |
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 Saint Stacey
| Statistics in running horses have proven that a mare who performs is more likely to throw a foal that performs over a mare that never placed herself. The same holds true in the cutting world and show world. Yes, a mare with no record can cone along and produce but you increase your odds of success if you have an already accomplished mare. That's why many stallions offer reduced rates to proven mares. That's also why they keep track of black type. Raising specifically for barrels is a fairly new thing. Barrel racers, on average, haven't grasped or are just starting to graspthis concept. For tthe most part, most believe they can take their favorite 5D running mare, breed her to a big name stud and get an NFR contender. Then when the baby grows into a 4D horse they blame the stud. 99% of all barrel horses have a huge hole in the pedigree and it's always the very bottom maternal line. These are just things I've noticed. One thing about this specific horse and his connections I know is this...I grew up in the AQHA and was taught by a good friend of Charlie's. I was there when Charlie and Bear each won their first World Championships. While I got out if that world, I still pay attention. I found it interesting when Charlie crossed over to the barrel world simply because of his outstanding career in the show pen. He certainly doesn't need to make a name for himself so I'm assuming he just really loves barrel horses. The man knows how to pick a champion and what it takes to make a champion. If he didn't believe in what Stinger is already showing, I highly doubt they would already be offerring him to the public. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 372
| della - 2015-08-09 11:09 PM
I requested a contract acatualy .... IDK im tempted. However my neighbour has a 3/4 brother to him thats a year younger. Just out of a different denaro daughter.... might just wait until hes ready to breed to try that kind of cross.
Who's Denaro?
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | arion - 2015-08-10 7:56 AM della - 2015-08-09 11:09 PM I requested a contract acatualy .... IDK im tempted. However my neighbour has a 3/4 brother to him thats a year younger. Just out of a different denaro daughter.... might just wait until hes ready to breed to try that kind of cross. Who's Denaro?
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 Expert
Posts: 2128
| arion - 2015-07-24 11:05 AM scwebster - 2015-07-24 8:40 AM I didnt realize Sherri was selling embyos from Stingray. I knew she had used some for herself. Very interesting. I also think he is worth more as a prospect than he is a breeding option...until he proves himself of course. She isn't She sold 1 to Charlie and Jason
Lol, well if she wasn't she would have sold 0.
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