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Cecil the Lion

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Last activity 2015-08-03 8:01 AM
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horsesinharleton
Reg. Sep 2009
Posted 2015-07-30 10:18 AM
Subject: RE: Cecil the Lion


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komet. - 2015-07-30 10:15 AM

horsesinharleton - 2015-07-30 10:08 AM

I totally agree that it was wrong and there should be some consequences for his actions... BUT, don't you wish that all the people that are so outraged about this lion would get that outraged about the aborted babies they are selling off! Wow... just imagine!!!

I was just WAITING for this. I knew it was coming.....

Glad I didn't disappoint you!
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SKM
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2015-07-30 10:44 AM
Subject: RE: Cecil the Lion



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pinx05 - 2015-07-30 9:16 AM

SKM - 2015-07-30 10:04 AM  Yes...I'm sure an avid hunter had NO IDEA anything was wrong when they lured the lion out of the game park with a carcass in the back of a truck so he could shoot it. I'm equally sure Ty Murray had NO IDEA bull dogging an elk from the back of a snow mobile was wrong all those years ago too.

You know every thread like this makes me wonder how big the rock is that I live under. I'm always going "What!? Why didn't I know about that?"

 It happened roughly in 1990. When the outfitted got busted for illegally baiting bears, the DOW came across a video tape of it when they raided the outfitters house and were collecting evidence. They gave Ty his summons during an autograph session at Denver.
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Herbie
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2015-07-30 11:00 AM
Subject: RE: Cecil the Lion


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I don't understand why our society is so concerned over something that happened in another country that is obviously the fault of the guides who issued the hunt.  My boss goes on big hunts like this all the time.  He flies in, hunts, and flies out.  It's the job of the guide to find the animal and say yay or nay.  What kills me is we have people raising hundreds of thousands of dollars for this lion situation.  What will that money go toward???  All the while the victims and their families of the incident in Chattanooga gun unnoticed.  How is it that the lion is more important than our heroes being slaughtered on our home soil?  What about the guy who shot up the movie theatre last week?  What about the families of those victims?  One day reporting on this type stuff that is happening RIGHT HERE, and yet people are outraged over a lion that was shot by a wealthy American on foreign soil, and was guided by locals who should know what is ok to shoot and what is not.  Our priorities are so screwed up in this country that it's truly frightening.   

Edited by Herbie 2015-07-30 11:28 AM
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Frodo
Reg. Jul 2004
Posted 2015-07-30 11:32 AM
Subject: RE: Cecil the Lion


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Herbie - 2015-07-30 11:00 AM I don't understand why our society is so concerned over something that happened in another country that is obviously the fault of the guides who issued the hunt.  My boss goes on big hunts like this all the time.  He flies in, hunts, and flies out.  It's the job of the guide to find the animal and say yay or nay.  What kills me is we have people raising hundreds of thousands of dollars for this lion situation.  What will that money go toward???  All the while the victims and their families of the incident in Chattanooga gun unnoticed.  How is it that the lion is more important than our heroes being slaughtered on our home soil?  What about the guy who shot up the movie theatre last week?  What about the families of those victims?  One day reporting on this type stuff that is happening RIGHT HERE, and yet people are outraged over a lion that was shot by a wealthy American on foreign soil, and was guided by locals who should know what is ok to shoot and what is not.  Our priorities are so screwed up in this country that it's truly frightening.   
Wow, if you were a train, you would have derailed about five times there.





 


Edited by Frodo 2015-07-30 11:33 AM
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TrailGirl
Reg. Jan 2014
Posted 2015-07-30 11:38 AM
Subject: RE: Cecil the Lion



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Yeah it's tough to know for sure if the guy had any idea the hunt might not be kosher. And...with his shady past poaching conviction etc he isn't going to get much benefit of the doubt. But keep in mind that whether or not it's distasteful to folks...it is Legal to hunt and even bait lions there as they do have a population to manage, and this means of management does generate a great deal of funds for conservation and discourages the land owners from killing all lions they see to protect their livestock. The hunts give these animals real value that likely protects them somewhat.

One thing I do hate is that the carcass/meat was left to rot. People in those areas are so protein deprived. That meat could have fed them. That is the usual way these things are handled. The hunter gets his trophy and the meat goes to locals. They will eat all but the baboons. So not only was it likely unethical and possibly an illegal hunt...they were completely wasteful and disrespectful of the resource.

Cecil was estimated to be 13 years old. Their life expectancy is about 12-14 years in the wild...so...if that's any consolation.

Facts of the case aside...the idea that some of these folks are ranting and raving...crying crocodile tears for ratings...threatening him and his family...that seems a bit ridiculous. When...as other have pointed out...Not NEARLY the same angst and drama was shown by these folks over the suffering/killing of late term babies for profit...or any number of other tragic human losses. Some folks really need to regain perspective...and try to keep their eye on the ball.

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IRunOnFaith
Reg. Dec 2009
Posted 2015-07-30 11:44 AM
Subject: RE: Cecil the Lion



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SKM - 2015-07-30 10:44 AM
pinx05 - 2015-07-30 9:16 AM
SKM - 2015-07-30 10:04 AM  Yes...I'm sure an avid hunter had NO IDEA anything was wrong when they lured the lion out of the game park with a carcass in the back of a truck so he could shoot it. I'm equally sure Ty Murray had NO IDEA bull dogging an elk from the back of a snow mobile was wrong all those years ago too.
You know every thread like this makes me wonder how big the rock is that I live under. I'm always going "What!? Why didn't I know about that?"
 It happened roughly in 1990. When the outfitted got busted for illegally baiting bears, the DOW came across a video tape of it when they raided the outfitters house and were collecting evidence. They gave Ty his summons during an autograph session at Denver.

I feel a little bad... I kind of chuckled to myself at the highlighted part... "Hey ya'll watch this!" is all I could think of...

I feel like our media coverage could be better on issues here on our own soil. Yes, I do feel saddened for the lion and the way he was killed. And I do agree if you are going to hunt you should use all the parts, skin and meat you can. But I'm saddened even more that the media has decided to push what I feel are more important issues under the rug. 
I don't watch much tv anymore just because of the stories our media decides to cover and shed light on and what they decide to leave in the dark....  Sad stuff all the way around...
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arion
Reg. Mar 2015
Posted 2015-07-30 11:52 AM
Subject: RE: Cecil the Lion


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kwanatha - 2015-07-30 9:18 AM

my neighbors are hunters, they eat the meat. Not sure they could afford to buy with todays prices. my problem with killing the lion is; they are not killing to survive. I really do not not like hunting for strictly the sport of it.

Without the sport of trophy hunting there would be far more species of African animals that are endangered or extinct .

Sport hunting in Africa pays for much of the conservation efforts.

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mlh0972
Reg. Mar 2012
Posted 2015-07-30 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: Cecil the Lion



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TrailGirl - 2015-07-30 11:38 AM



Yeah it's tough to know for sure if the guy had any idea the hunt might not be kosher. And...with his shady past poaching conviction etc he isn't going to get much benefit of the doubt. But keep in mind that whether or not it's distasteful to folks...it is Legal to hunt and even bait lions there as they do have a population to manage, and this means of management does generate a great deal of funds for conservation and discourages the land owners from killing all lions they see to protect their livestock. The hunts give these animals real value that likely protects them somewhat.

One thing I do hate is that the carcass/meat was left to rot. People in those areas are so protein deprived. That meat could have fed them. That is the usual way these things are handled. The hunter gets his trophy and the meat goes to locals. They will eat all but the baboons. So not only was it likely unethical and possibly an illegal hunt...they were completely wasteful and disrespectful of the resource.

Cecil was estimated to be 13 years old. Their life expectancy is about 12-14 years in the wild...so...if that's any consolation.

Facts of the case aside...the idea that some of these folks are ranting and raving...crying crocodile tears for ratings...threatening him and his family...that seems a bit ridiculous. When...as other have pointed out...Not NEARLY the same angst and drama was shown by these folks over the suffering/killing of late term babies for profit...or any number of other tragic human losses. Some folks really need to regain perspective...and try to keep their eye on the ball.



my thoughts exactly!! Well put.
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Bear
Reg. Dec 2007
Posted 2015-07-30 12:34 PM
Subject: RE: Cecil the Lion



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horsesinharleton - 2015-07-30 10:08 AM

I totally agree that it was wrong and there should be some consequences for his actions... BUT, don't you wish that all the people that are so outraged about this lion would get that outraged about the aborted babies they are selling off! Wow... just imagine!!!

This about sums up my sentiments. There is universal outrage over this killing.......but the killings of human babies in a much more gruesome way is treated as business as usual by a large percentage of our society.

I wonder how society would react if vets decided to kill lion cubs at birth by ripping out their legs while they are squirming and kicking, and sucking out their brains.
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pinx05
Reg. Nov 2009
Posted 2015-07-30 12:49 PM
Subject: RE: Cecil the Lion



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SKM - 2015-07-30 10:44 AM
pinx05 - 2015-07-30 9:16 AM
SKM - 2015-07-30 10:04 AM  Yes...I'm sure an avid hunter had NO IDEA anything was wrong when they lured the lion out of the game park with a carcass in the back of a truck so he could shoot it. I'm equally sure Ty Murray had NO IDEA bull dogging an elk from the back of a snow mobile was wrong all those years ago too.
You know every thread like this makes me wonder how big the rock is that I live under. I'm always going "What!? Why didn't I know about that?"
 It happened roughly in 1990. When the outfitted got busted for illegally baiting bears, the DOW came across a video tape of it when they raided the outfitters house and were collecting evidence. They gave Ty his summons during an autograph session at Denver.

 Oh, well that is why... I was just a kid when that happened. Thanks SKM!
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stayceem
Reg. May 2007
Posted 2015-07-30 1:02 PM
Subject: RE: Cecil the Lion



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The problem that I have with this issue is that most opposed, seem to be opposed to "game hunting" in general. This happens everywhere, everyday ... I've never seen anyone care so much, this guy just happened to make the news. I met a guy in Texas who owns a game farm. He has a Zebra, giraffe and many other exotic animals. If you have the cash, you can shoot the animal. He is the guide for his property and you pick what you want and he helps you get the kill. I dont agree with "game killing" however, I dont think this one individual needs to be persecuted alone.

From what I have read, this lion was involved in research (which could be just as cruel depending on what kinda research). The guide is supposed to be responsible for the "paying customer." Whether or not the dentist knew, will never be fully known. And using a fishing without a license and the other illegal bear charge as leverage is ridiculous IMO. I see people everyday with these types of charges... some of them made distasteful decisions but a lot of them are pretty dumb cases with many circumstances most never know.

I dont understand why the carcas was left and I dont agree with that. I also dont agree with lurying an animal out but this is common in "game killing." Again this is an issue with "game hunting" and this guy isnt the first nor will be the last to use these tactics. The same could be said for the scents and calls people use for deer and duck hunting.

I also agree that we have much bigger issues we could be focusing on, donating to, etc.

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MS2011
Reg. Mar 2005
Posted 2015-07-30 1:36 PM
Subject: RE: Cecil the Lion



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This is the best article I've seen on it.

Contribution
Sometimes It’s Just Easier To Care About Dead Lions Than Dead People
Jul. 29, 2015 3:28pm
Matt Walsh is a blogger, writer, speaker, and professional truth sayer.
 
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    I started noticing “Cecil the Lion” trending on Facebook and Twitter at some point yesterday afternoon. By the evening, it was the most popular topic on social media, and stories about the lion were popping up on all of the national news sites.
    Before I took the time to investigate, I tried to imagine if there could be any valid reason for a wild cat to become the biggest news item in the world. On a day when another undercover video revealed Planned Parenthood dismembering murdered children for profit, I strained to think if there might be some justification for ignoring the harvesting of human beings in favor of obsessing over a large feline in Africa.
     
    I thought maybe the lion had cured cancer, or sprouted wings and flown into space, or stood on its hind legs and recited the Gettysburg Address. Surely, these developments would vindicate the disproportionate amount of attention it was receiving. But I quickly found out that the lion, from Zimbabwe, had done no such thing. Apparently, all it did was die.
    Want more from Matt Walsh?
    Of course, lots of people died yesterday too, especially in Zimbabwe. Across the planet, human travesties continued to unfold – Christians were slaughtered in the Middle East, political prisoners were tortured and executed in North Korea and Iran, Americans fell prey to crime and violence spilling over our southern border, and about 3,000 human children were butchered in abortion clinics, some of which were then dissected and sold on the black market – but this one unfortunate beast in a forest 9,000 miles away trumped all of these. Human victims would have to wait yet another day to be noticed by our culture. Their plight just couldn’t compete with a cute, fuzzy mammal.
     
    Poor Cecil, as I’m sure you heard, was ”murdered” by an American dentist named Walter Palmer. The dentist traveled there and paid some $55,000 for the privilege to hunt and kill the king of the jungle. It turns out that the hunt might not have been legal. He says he thought he was acting within the law, and that he didn’t know Cecil was a beloved animal celebrity in Africa. His pleads of ignorance may or may not be true, but they are called into question by the fact that he’s been convicted of poaching before.
    Photo Credit: Shutterstock
    Photo Credit: Shutterstock
    This was all enough to earn him the wrath of progressive America, but none of these crimes compare to the fact that he is, evidently, a Republican.
    We know these details about his life, and about the sexual harassment claim made against him in 2009, because the media has feverishly poured through his record and heaped more scrutiny upon him than they have on every Democrat politician in the last 40 years combined. Meanwhile, the internet lynch mob predictably leaped into action. Palmer’s personal address was released, death threats were issued, his business was attacked and shutdown, he was forced into hiding, and scores of drooling trolls flocked to Twitter to fantasize about all of the creative and violent things they’d love to do to him:





    Some even began non-ironically using #LionLivesMatter

    Refusing to be upstaged in this contest for the title of Most Exorbitant Reaction, PETA proclaimed that Palmer ought to be “extradited and hung.” A bunch of famous people joined the dog pile, utilizing their platforms to declare Palmer “disgusting,” a “murderer,” and “Satan.” Other celebrities have asked that his citizenship be permanently revoked. Sharon Osbourne labeled Palmer a “killer” and said she hopes he loses his house and his business. According to Sharon, even his wife and children deserve to be homeless. Jimmy Kimmel, late night host on ABC, took time out of his comedy show to deliver a tearful rant, calling the hunter an “a-hole” and a “jackal.”
    All of this, over a lion.
    It bears repeating that this happened on the same day that a video was released showing lab technicians dissecting the body parts of murdered humans while discussing how much money they could get for each “item.” This footage was completely ignored. Our culture let out a massive, collective yawn, instead choosing to wail over the fate of some random hairy beast in southern Africa.
    Screenshot
    Screenshot
    The whole thing transcends mere absurdity. It is beyond ridiculous. Far past anything that could be called simply exaggerated or irrational. The swarms of petty nitwits in our culture have finally outdone themselves. What we are witnessing is something worse than an Idiocracy; it is total moral chaos.
    I’m not defending Walter Palmer, by the way. I don’t have any problem with hunters — and in most cases, African big game hunters help both the local economies in these areas, and the ongoing effort to preserve endangered species — but it seems that Palmer broke the law and killed a lion that was financially valuable to the locals. That was bad. He shouldn’t have done that. If the story we’re hearing is accurate (and there’s always a significant chance that it isn’t accurate, or at least isn’t complete) then Palmer was in the wrong.
    Still, the reaction is so inordinate and overwrought that I have to laugh. I have nothing against Cecil, I’m sure he was a swell chap, but no dead animal could ever justify this excessive and callous backlash from such a frantic mob of vindictive, retaliatory buffoons. Even ancient pagan tribes that literally worshiped animals probably exercised more restraint when a heretic killed one of their animal deities.
     
    It’s fine if you are opposed to what Palmer did, but that doesn’t excuse you from the duty to be sane and rational. It’s a lion, after all. An animal. If you want to be really agitated by a doctor who kills living things, you should probably be less focused on this dentist and a little more focused on abortionists like LeRoy Carhart, who murder actual people. Carhart has killed both unborn and born humans, and likes to do the former by ripping the child apart while it’s still alive. Maybe the media should be camping out in front of his house instead of Palmer’s. Maybe we should be asking why doctors are allowed to execute babies, not why dentists are allowed to hunt African game.
    This dichotomy has become, perhaps, the most bewildering and confusing thing about our culture. Progressives actively celebrate the most depraved evils, and then make super villains out of folks who hunt, or fly Confederate flags, or refuse to bake gay wedding cakes. It’s like they’re standing on a street corner simultaneously applauding a thug as he murders a man for his wallet, and calling for a summary execution of a pedestrian who forgot to use the crosswalk. This isn’t just a matter of misplaced priorities; this is unadulterated lunacy.
    Yes, I realize that liberal hypocrites aren’t the only ones upset about the lion. Some people are animal lovers, but they put that love for animals in perspective. They might cry for the cat, but they cry more for humans who are murdered, persecuted, or exploited. Compassionate souls love animals deeply because they possess a profound respect for all life. In the mode of St. Francis of Assisi, their mercy for animals stems from their love of God. I take no issue at all with the people in this category, obviously. I love animals myself.
    But the fact remains that many in our society are descending like a pack of frenzied hyenas upon a man who shot a lion, yet feel no anger when confronted with the murder of children. And abortion isn’t the only evil accepted or celebrated by progressivism. We are living in a culture of death where cruelty and brutality reign supreme. The reaction to this “scandal” only further reveals and illuminates that cruelty. We think nothing of trying to destroy a man, ruin his life, and wish for his painful demise, without knowing anything else about him. We are so numb, so indifferent, that we will rip a stranger to pieces, cannibalize him publicly, tear him down until there is nothing left, and then sleep like babies at night.
    Yet, the lion.
    Kill the children if you want. Destroy the dentist just for fun. Demean and degrade anyone who acts or thinks differently, if for no other reason than there’s not much else to do. But a dead lion — now there’s a victim we should mourn.
    It seems baffling. It would all make sense if our culture showed no concern for the plight of human beings, and also displayed a similar wanton disregard for animals and trees. Then we would just be nihilists and Darwinists. Human life has no objective value, we would reason, therefore no life has any objective value. We would be naked and honest barbarians.
    But our barbarism is clothed and hidden beneath this thin veneer of an arbitrary concern for random animals and plant life. And not even every animal. That’s why most of the people panicking over “Cecil” will still order the hamburger when they go to Applebee’s, still use insecticide to ruthlessly poison innocent roaches and ants, and still drink milk extracted from enslaved cows.
    They give lions and elephants a certain elevated status, but can’t explain why. They might insist that these creatures are special because they’re “endangered,” but they can’t tell you why it matters that they’re endangered. If the world didn’t need the baby who’s now being dissected in a petri dish in some research facility, why did it need Cecil the lion? What was he doing that was so special? How was he contributing to the advancement of civilization? He was peeing in the grass, licking his butt, and eating zebras. Big deal. That baby could have grown up and become an inventor, a philanthropist, an artist, a lover, a thinker, a father, a mother, a pioneer. If that potential wasn’t enough to let the child off the hook, why do we make an exception for the beast? Are we grading on a curve here?
     
    These questions are rhetorical. I already know the answer. I know why progressives cry for dead lions and not dead babies: it’s called Natural Law.
    Natural Law holds that all people possess a conscience, therefore all people innately recognize the distinction between good and evil. We are naturally repulsed by evil and attracted to goodness. This is why every civilization has outlawed sins like murder and theft, and hailed virtues like charity and mercy. Of course, many civilizations have redefined murder so as to permit a convenient form of it, but still no society has ever come out and defended murder in principle.
    No society can ever be explicitly nihilist. As in, no society can outwardly live by the philosophy that everything is meaningless and nothing matters. Individuals can try it, but like Nietzsche they’ll end up in a mental institution, babbling to themselves while eating their own excrement. Societies, though, have to at least pretend they believe in doing the right thing. A society must convince itself it hates evil and loves goodness. Even the Nazis rationalized that they were serving the greater good of mankind.
    So when our culture decides to sit back and tolerate, or even revere and commend, perverse evils like abortion, pornography, the breakdown of the family, the persecution of Christians, etc., it begins to accumulate a kind of Outrage Reservoir. Deep down, we must feel like we oppose evil. We can’t laud the most insidious atrocities of our time, and then look in the mirror and face ourselves honestly. The righteous anger that should be poured out in response to these true horrors is bottled and contained, clogging up our souls like constipated bowels.
    We search desperately for an acceptable target for our surplus of withheld scorn, and when we locate it, we unload like we just chugged a gallon of laxative. Suddenly, some guy who killed a lion in Zimbabwe receives all of the compiled disdain that should have been discharged on the abortionists and the pornographers and the persecutors. Our pent up rage and anger mixes with guilt and self-loathing, and together it creates this concentrated bile that drowns and destroys whatever tragic chump they throw before us to be devoured. It’s nothing personal against him, really. Walter Palmer is a sacrificial lamb. A punching bag, strung up and dangled in front of progressive America as a way for them to release their moral frustrations. He’s an object. A receptacle for their misdirected vengeance. It’s like self-flagellation, only minus the self. And next week they’ll be flagellating some other patsy, and nobody will even remember or care about poor old Walter Palmer.
    A year from now, someone will do a follow up story about that villainous dentist from long ago, and we’ll all think, “Oh yeah, whatever happened to that guy?” Then we’ll see that he lost his business, his family, and his dignity, and now lives as a sad shell of a forgotten man. “Serves him right for doing whatever he did,” we’ll say proudly, as we get back to feasting upon the newest Scoundrel Du Jour. It’s a never ending pattern, played out over and over again by a progressive culture filled with craven wimps, always compensating for their moral failings by tearing down false Satans, too afraid to do battle with the real one.
    You might wonder how progressives choose their new devils and new gods. Why Walter Palmer? Why Cecil the Lion? Well, there’s a randomness to it, of course. And there are always the superfluous reasons, like the fact that most of the members of the lynch mob probably have fond memories of “The Lion King.” But I think, more fundamentally, progressives choose to care about lions because lions are an abstraction. They care about the idea of lions.
    Real lions are all the way in Africa, or else contained in zoos. You can go and see them, or watch them on TV, or read about them, but crucially, lions will never ask anything from us. Our affection for them presents no challenges. We don’t have to accommodate them. I can say I love lions, but this love will never require me to do anything. Lions will never inconvenience me. They’ll never get in my way. I can defend the lives of lions by angrily Tweeting about hunters, and then I can go on my way, live however I want, and never be asked to change my lifestyle for their sake.
     
    People, on the other hand, are real. They are here. They impose themselves on our lives. They burden us. They surround us. To care about people is hard. It requires us to live, act, think, and speak differently. We have to accommodate people. We have to tolerate people. We have to do things for people, especially the most vulnerable and helpless people. It’s no coincidence that progressivism advocates abortion to deal with children, and euthanasia to handle the old and the infirm. If it is going to pretend to love human beings at all, it must first get rid of the most burdensome types.
    It can be hard to love people. And if you say you love people, life is going to constantly demand that you prove it. If you say you love people, you certainly can’t kill your own child, and you can’t support the killing of children, and even if you don’t have kids, you have to be patient and kind with other people’s kids, and other people generally. This is very different from loving lions. You can love lions passively, in the abstract; people must be loved actively, in reality.
    If ever some deranged terrorist transported thousand of lions into our neighborhoods, forcing us to actually love lions in some real and present sense, I can guarantee the progressive affection for the species would vanish rapidly.
    This is the progressive modus operandi. Progressivism loves everything that can be loved lazily or indulgently, and nothing that must be loved sacrificially and earnestly. It loves nothing that requires any action on its part.
    Put more simply, it loves nothing.
    But it will keep pretending anyway.
    Contact Matt for speaking engagement requests at [email protected]. For general comments, use [email protected].

     
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    RidenFly
    Reg. Nov 2006
    Posted 2015-07-30 1:47 PM
    Subject: RE: Cecil the Lion



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    As a hunter, I'm pretty sure this Dentist used a scope on his rifle, and I'm pretty sure in his scope he'd be able to see the collar.  Now, wouldn't you think that if you saw a collar on an animal you'd think twice before pulling the trigger?   What he did was disgusting.  HOWEVER, calling for his life...all  these B.S. memes about how we need to go Dentist hunting is equally if not more so wrong.  How can we know that in one of our rants that we don't inspire some whack job to actually do something unthinkable to the dentist?  
      Plus trophy hunting pays for so much of the conservation in Africa.  You can't end that.  You cant. 
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    cyount2009
    Reg. Apr 2012
    Posted 2015-07-30 1:47 PM
    Subject: RE: Cecil the Lion



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    stayceem - 2015-07-30 1:02 PM The problem that I have with this issue is that most opposed, seem to be opposed to "game hunting" in general. This happens everywhere, everyday ... I've never seen anyone care so much, this guy just happened to make the news. I met a guy in Texas who owns a game farm. He has a Zebra, giraffe and many other exotic animals. If you have the cash, you can shoot the animal. He is the guide for his property and you pick what you want and he helps you get the kill. I dont agree with "game killing" however, I dont think this one individual needs to be persecuted alone. From what I have read, this lion was involved in research (which could be just as cruel depending on what kinda research). The guide is supposed to be responsible for the "paying customer." Whether or not the dentist knew, will never be fully known. And using a fishing without a license and the other illegal bear charge as leverage is ridiculous IMO. I see people everyday with these types of charges... some of them made distasteful decisions but a lot of them are pretty dumb cases with many circumstances most never know. I dont understand why the carcas was left and I dont agree with that. I also dont agree with lurying an animal out but this is common in "game killing." Again this is an issue with "game hunting" and this guy isnt the first nor will be the last to use these tactics. The same could be said for the scents and calls people use for deer and duck hunting. I also agree that we have much bigger issues we could be focusing on, donating to, etc.

    I have to disagree here. There are far more variables to using bottled scents and calls then there are to tying a carcass to a jeep to try to lure out a human/vehicle desensitized scavenging predator.

    I am not defending the activist at this point or the poacher (in my mind, once a poacher, always a poacher and should be labeled as such) but I can say given what facts are being released I am leaning toward the activists side.

    We had the same situation occur with a bear here a few years ago. The bear frequented an upper class neighborhood for several years. They too had given this bear a name, I believe it was Arthur? A hunter, legal and legitimate, killed the bear in season, in zone, outside of the no hunting area, without bating, with a bow and the local media and activists went nuts. This hunter got lucky and caught this bear with it's pants down. I see nothing wrong when wildlife, regardless of what name you give it or where it spends the majority of it's time, is legally taken. What I do have an issue with is poachers either foreign or domestic.

    The media has a tendency to label poachers as hunters which in turns labels legitimate and legal hunters as terrible law breaking and heartless villains to the rest of the world.
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    stayceem
    Reg. May 2007
    Posted 2015-07-30 2:01 PM
    Subject: RE: Cecil the Lion



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    cyount2009 - 2015-07-30 1:47 PM

    stayceem - 2015-07-30 1:02 PM The problem that I have with this issue is that most opposed, seem to be opposed to "game hunting" in general. This happens everywhere, everyday ... I've never seen anyone care so much, this guy just happened to make the news. I met a guy in Texas who owns a game farm. He has a Zebra, giraffe and many other exotic animals. If you have the cash, you can shoot the animal. He is the guide for his property and you pick what you want and he helps you get the kill. I dont agree with "game killing" however, I dont think this one individual needs to be persecuted alone. From what I have read, this lion was involved in research (which could be just as cruel depending on what kinda research). The guide is supposed to be responsible for the "paying customer." Whether or not the dentist knew, will never be fully known. And using a fishing without a license and the other illegal bear charge as leverage is ridiculous IMO. I see people everyday with these types of charges... some of them made distasteful decisions but a lot of them are pretty dumb cases with many circumstances most never know. I dont understand why the carcas was left and I dont agree with that. I also dont agree with lurying an animal out but this is common in "game killing." Again this is an issue with "game hunting" and this guy isnt the first nor will be the last to use these tactics. The same could be said for the scents and calls people use for deer and duck hunting. I also agree that we have much bigger issues we could be focusing on, donating to, etc.

    I have to disagree here. There are far more variables to using bottled scents and calls then there are to tying a carcass to a jeep to try to lure out a human/vehicle desensitized scavenging predator.

    I am not defending the activist at this point or the poacher (in my mind, once a poacher, always a poacher and should be labeled as such) but I can say given what facts are being released I am leaning toward the activists side.

    We had the same situation occur with a bear here a few years ago. The bear frequented an upper class neighborhood for several years. They too had given this bear a name, I believe it was Arthur? A hunter, legal and legitimate, killed the bear in season, in zone, outside of the no hunting area, without bating, with a bow and the local media and activists went nuts. This hunter got lucky and caught this bear with it's pants down. I see nothing wrong when wildlife, regardless of what name you give it or where it spends the majority of it's time, is legally taken. What I do have an issue with is poachers either foreign or domestic.

    The media has a tendency to label poachers as hunters which in turns labels legitimate and legal hunters as terrible law breaking and heartless villains to the rest of the world.

    I am sure we will agree to disagree... but the argument I have seen raised is that it was lazy, unfair way of hunting... so if that is how you feel... then all "aids" should be deemed the same. They have be at different levels but nonetheless, they are aids and you are using them to assist you in the hunting & killing of an animal.

    I think if they could prove the dentist knew better, he would be charged. Unfortunately, he did go through proper channels (a guide), therefore, labeling him a "poacher" I believe is premature. There has to be proven intent. From what I have read, they dont know he intentially killed than animal illegally.
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    cyount2009
    Reg. Apr 2012
    Posted 2015-07-30 2:03 PM
    Subject: RE: Cecil the Lion



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    RidenFly - 2015-07-30 1:47 PM

    As a hunter, I'm pretty sure this Dentist used a scope on his rifle, and I'm pretty sure in his scope he'd be able to see the collar.  Now, wouldn't you think that if you saw a collar on an animal you'd think twice before pulling the trigger?   What he did was disgusting.  HOWEVER, calling for his life...all  these B.S. memes about how we need to go Dentist hunting is equally if not more so wrong.  How can we know that in one of our rants that we don't inspire some whack job to actually do something unthinkable to the dentist?  
      Plus trophy hunting pays for so much of the conservation in Africa.  You can't end that.  You cant. 

    He used a bow for the initial shot and flowed it up some hours later with a rifle. However, your theory is probably valid. I would bet the house that he at least observed the animal through binoculars or a spotting scope. Maybe his main was to full to view the collar? Maybe it's not illegal to kill collared animals in the at region of Africa? At any rate, there is too much evidence at this time for me to support him.
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    Silly Filly
    Reg. Feb 2004
    Posted 2015-07-30 2:08 PM
    Subject: RE: Cecil the Lion


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    RidenFly - 2015-07-30 12:47 PM and I'm pretty sure in his scope he'd be able to see the collar.  Now, wouldn't you think that if you saw a collar on an animal you'd think twice before pulling the trigger?  

     I haven't noticed a collar in any of the pictures I've seen. 
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    rodeomom3
    Reg. Dec 2007
    Posted 2015-07-30 2:32 PM
    Subject: RE: Cecil the Lion



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    cyount2009 - 2015-07-30 1:47 PM
    stayceem - 2015-07-30 1:02 PM The problem that I have with this issue is that most opposed, seem to be opposed to "game hunting" in general. This happens everywhere, everyday ... I've never seen anyone care so much, this guy just happened to make the news. I met a guy in Texas who owns a game farm. He has a Zebra, giraffe and many other exotic animals. If you have the cash, you can shoot the animal. He is the guide for his property and you pick what you want and he helps you get the kill. I dont agree with "game killing" however, I dont think this one individual needs to be persecuted alone. From what I have read, this lion was involved in research (which could be just as cruel depending on what kinda research). The guide is supposed to be responsible for the "paying customer." Whether or not the dentist knew, will never be fully known. And using a fishing without a license and the other illegal bear charge as leverage is ridiculous IMO. I see people everyday with these types of charges... some of them made distasteful decisions but a lot of them are pretty dumb cases with many circumstances most never know. I dont understand why the carcas was left and I dont agree with that. I also dont agree with lurying an animal out but this is common in "game killing." Again this is an issue with "game hunting" and this guy isnt the first nor will be the last to use these tactics. The same could be said for the scents and calls people use for deer and duck hunting. I also agree that we have much bigger issues we could be focusing on, donating to, etc.
    I have to disagree here. There are far more variables to using bottled scents and calls then there are to tying a carcass to a jeep to try to lure out a human/vehicle desensitized scavenging predator.



    I am not defending the activist at this point or the poacher (in my mind, once a poacher, always a poacher and should be labeled as such) but I can say given what facts are being released I am leaning toward the activists side.



    We had the same situation occur with a bear here a few years ago. The bear frequented an upper class neighborhood for several years. They too had given this bear a name, I believe it was Arthur? A hunter, legal and legitimate, killed the bear in season, in zone, outside of the no hunting area, without bating, with a bow and the local media and activists went nuts. This hunter got lucky and caught this bear with it's pants down. I see nothing wrong when wildlife, regardless of what name you give it or where it spends the majority of it's time, is legally taken. What I do have an issue with is poachers either foreign or domestic.



    The media has a tendency to label poachers as hunters which in turns labels legitimate and legal hunters as terrible law breaking and heartless villains to the rest of the world.

    Ditto, you are not going to get a deer or a bird to follow a vehicle by using  scents or calls.  They took advantage of the fact that this lion was desensitized to vehicles.  The research he was invloved with was tracking his movements and his breeding habits, trying to learn to help protect this species, he was not harmed in any way.
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    komet.
    Reg. Jun 2012
    Posted 2015-07-30 3:01 PM
    Subject: RE: Cecil the Lion



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    Silly Filly - 2015-07-30 2:08 PM

    RidenFly - 2015-07-30 12:47 PM and I'm pretty sure in his scope he'd be able to see the collar.  Now, wouldn't you think that if you saw a collar on an animal you'd think twice before pulling the trigger?  

     I haven't noticed a collar in any of the pictures I've seen. 

    I saw a picture of the lion with the tracking device showing. It was pretty much the same color as the lion's mane.. The collar itself was buried in the thick hair of the mane and could not be seen, even up close
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    Itsme
    Reg. Jul 2013
    Posted 2015-07-30 3:15 PM
    Subject: RE: Cecil the Lion


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    No possible way I could care less about this lion.
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