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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
  
| streakysox - 2015-08-14 11:03 PM
r_beau - 2015-08-14 8:27 AM
Just Let Me Run: To be honest, when we have a "bad turn", it usually is my fault for not cueing him right in some way. Most of the time. He's very broke and listens well to me, so if I make a mis-judgement on timing on my cues, that's on me. I don't do slow work very often anymore, but he does it perfectly and does exactly as I ask. One thing I probably *should* work on is that drill where you "spin" behind the barrel, to quicken his feet.
StreakSox: I have his health history description in my OP, but I do honestly feel like he is just a short-strided horse. Compared to my other horse, and other horses I have ridden, he just does not have a "ground covering" stride. And he's been that way since day one. However, even though his stride is the way it is, he still has speed.
I didn't post this video in the earlier bunch just because it's an "older" video from back in April. I didn't set him up right to start the run (have fixed that) and didn't set him up right for the first barrel (think I've finally figured out my cueing on that!) which resultantly messed up our entry to the 2nd barrel .... BUT! The point I want to make with showing this is that according to the Interval Timing on this race that had over 400 entries, his 3rd barrel was faster (or about the same) as the top 5 runs out of those 400+ runs, and his speed on the way home was actually a smidge FASTER than them. So I do know he has the speed capability, even if he doesn't feel like he has that long of a stride. I was actually pretty surprised to find that out from the IT. I really didn't think he was that fast based on how his stride feels to me, but I guess he is. Again, just have to figure out how to also get that in-between the barrels.
https://youtu.be/yKh6pVnuobg
I do regular chiropractic work on him as well, and he actually was just checked last night. He's always a little bit out in his withers and sometimes poll, but it's never severe.
Pretty sure he does not have EPM.
First of all, I said that MY horse had EPM and did not think that was your horse's problem. If you look at the slow motion of this video, look closely at the horse running out of the arena from the third barrel. Notice that the horse's front legs hardly reach past the horse's chest. Something is hindering the horse. Possibly a shoulder problem. This horse is not reaching out.
Correct me if I am wrong but this horse has had front end issues last year, I am thinking navicular or something along the lines.
With front end issues this can cause the horse not to stretch out and fire.
Interval timing can give people the false hope, did the interval timing have the mph? | |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12842
  
| cheryl makofka - 2015-08-15 9:49 PM
streakysox - 2015-08-14 11:03 PM
r_beau - 2015-08-14 8:27 AM
Just Let Me Run: To be honest, when we have a "bad turn", it usually is my fault for not cueing him right in some way. Most of the time. He's very broke and listens well to me, so if I make a mis-judgement on timing on my cues, that's on me. I don't do slow work very often anymore, but he does it perfectly and does exactly as I ask. One thing I probably *should* work on is that drill where you "spin" behind the barrel, to quicken his feet.
StreakSox: I have his health history description in my OP, but I do honestly feel like he is just a short-strided horse. Compared to my other horse, and other horses I have ridden, he just does not have a "ground covering" stride. And he's been that way since day one. However, even though his stride is the way it is, he still has speed.
I didn't post this video in the earlier bunch just because it's an "older" video from back in April. I didn't set him up right to start the run (have fixed that) and didn't set him up right for the first barrel (think I've finally figured out my cueing on that!) which resultantly messed up our entry to the 2nd barrel .... BUT! The point I want to make with showing this is that according to the Interval Timing on this race that had over 400 entries, his 3rd barrel was faster (or about the same) as the top 5 runs out of those 400+ runs, and his speed on the way home was actually a smidge FASTER than them. So I do know he has the speed capability, even if he doesn't feel like he has that long of a stride. I was actually pretty surprised to find that out from the IT. I really didn't think he was that fast based on how his stride feels to me, but I guess he is. Again, just have to figure out how to also get that in-between the barrels.
https://youtu.be/yKh6pVnuobg
I do regular chiropractic work on him as well, and he actually was just checked last night. He's always a little bit out in his withers and sometimes poll, but it's never severe.
Pretty sure he does not have EPM.
First of all, I said that MY horse had EPM and did not think that was your horse's problem. If you look at the slow motion of this video, look closely at the horse running out of the arena from the third barrel. Notice that the horse's front legs hardly reach past the horse's chest. Something is hindering the horse. Possibly a shoulder problem. This horse is not reaching out.
Correct me if I am wrong but this horse has had front end issues last year, I am thinking navicular or something along the lines.
With front end issues this can cause the horse not to stretch out and fire.
Interval timing can give people the false hope, did the interval timing have the mph?
This is apparently a small horse because she said it had a short stride. I tried to find a video of Stingray or Babyflo who are both very short. I could not really find one where you could actually see the reach on the horse. There are a few small horses around here that reach so far that their foot is almost straight out from their chest. Tough little suckers and hard to beat. That Tanner time is a gimmick. It will give a horse a speed index that is false and totally meaningless. I have even seen horses advertised for sale with some speed index determined by Tanner time. Even a speed index of the track has little meaning in the barrel world. | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| streakysox - 2015-08-15 10:13 PM
cheryl makofka - 2015-08-15 9:49 PM
streakysox - 2015-08-14 11:03 PM
r_beau - 2015-08-14 8:27 AM
Just Let Me Run: To be honest, when we have a "bad turn", it usually is my fault for not cueing him right in some way. Most of the time. He's very broke and listens well to me, so if I make a mis-judgement on timing on my cues, that's on me. I don't do slow work very often anymore, but he does it perfectly and does exactly as I ask. One thing I probably *should* work on is that drill where you "spin" behind the barrel, to quicken his feet.
StreakSox: I have his health history description in my OP, but I do honestly feel like he is just a short-strided horse. Compared to my other horse, and other horses I have ridden, he just does not have a "ground covering" stride. And he's been that way since day one. However, even though his stride is the way it is, he still has speed.
I didn't post this video in the earlier bunch just because it's an "older" video from back in April. I didn't set him up right to start the run (have fixed that) and didn't set him up right for the first barrel (think I've finally figured out my cueing on that!) which resultantly messed up our entry to the 2nd barrel .... BUT! The point I want to make with showing this is that according to the Interval Timing on this race that had over 400 entries, his 3rd barrel was faster (or about the same) as the top 5 runs out of those 400+ runs, and his speed on the way home was actually a smidge FASTER than them. So I do know he has the speed capability, even if he doesn't feel like he has that long of a stride. I was actually pretty surprised to find that out from the IT. I really didn't think he was that fast based on how his stride feels to me, but I guess he is. Again, just have to figure out how to also get that in-between the barrels.
https://youtu.be/yKh6pVnuobg
I do regular chiropractic work on him as well, and he actually was just checked last night. He's always a little bit out in his withers and sometimes poll, but it's never severe.
Pretty sure he does not have EPM.
First of all, I said that MY horse had EPM and did not think that was your horse's problem. If you look at the slow motion of this video, look closely at the horse running out of the arena from the third barrel. Notice that the horse's front legs hardly reach past the horse's chest. Something is hindering the horse. Possibly a shoulder problem. This horse is not reaching out.
Correct me if I am wrong but this horse has had front end issues last year, I am thinking navicular or something along the lines.
With front end issues this can cause the horse not to stretch out and fire.
Interval timing can give people the false hope, did the interval timing have the mph?
This is apparently a small horse because she said it had a short stride. I tried to find a video of Stingray or Babyflo who are both very short. I could not really find one where you could actually see the reach on the horse. There are a few small horses around here that reach so far that their foot is almost straight out from their chest. Tough little suckers and hard to beat. That Tanner time is a gimmick. It will give a horse a speed index that is false and totally meaningless. I have even seen horses advertised for sale with some speed index determined by Tanner time. Even a speed index of the track has little meaning in the barrel world.
The thing I am thinking is if the interval timing has mph she can compare the mph from start to first, first to second, and see if the horse is really loosing | |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12842
| cheryl makofka - 2015-08-15 11:56 PM
streakysox - 2015-08-15 10:13 PM
cheryl makofka - 2015-08-15 9:49 PM
streakysox - 2015-08-14 11:03 PM
r_beau - 2015-08-14 8:27 AM
Just Let Me Run: To be honest, when we have a "bad turn", it usually is my fault for not cueing him right in some way. Most of the time. He's very broke and listens well to me, so if I make a mis-judgement on timing on my cues, that's on me. I don't do slow work very often anymore, but he does it perfectly and does exactly as I ask. One thing I probably *should* work on is that drill where you "spin" behind the barrel, to quicken his feet.
StreakSox: I have his health history description in my OP, but I do honestly feel like he is just a short-strided horse. Compared to my other horse, and other horses I have ridden, he just does not have a "ground covering" stride. And he's been that way since day one. However, even though his stride is the way it is, he still has speed.
I didn't post this video in the earlier bunch just because it's an "older" video from back in April. I didn't set him up right to start the run (have fixed that) and didn't set him up right for the first barrel (think I've finally figured out my cueing on that!) which resultantly messed up our entry to the 2nd barrel .... BUT! The point I want to make with showing this is that according to the Interval Timing on this race that had over 400 entries, his 3rd barrel was faster (or about the same) as the top 5 runs out of those 400+ runs, and his speed on the way home was actually a smidge FASTER than them. So I do know he has the speed capability, even if he doesn't feel like he has that long of a stride. I was actually pretty surprised to find that out from the IT. I really didn't think he was that fast based on how his stride feels to me, but I guess he is. Again, just have to figure out how to also get that in-between the barrels.
https://youtu.be/yKh6pVnuobg
I do regular chiropractic work on him as well, and he actually was just checked last night. He's always a little bit out in his withers and sometimes poll, but it's never severe.
Pretty sure he does not have EPM.
First of all, I said that MY horse had EPM and did not think that was your horse's problem. If you look at the slow motion of this video, look closely at the horse running out of the arena from the third barrel. Notice that the horse's front legs hardly reach past the horse's chest. Something is hindering the horse. Possibly a shoulder problem. This horse is not reaching out.
Correct me if I am wrong but this horse has had front end issues last year, I am thinking navicular or something along the lines.
With front end issues this can cause the horse not to stretch out and fire.
Interval timing can give people the false hope, did the interval timing have the mph?
This is apparently a small horse because she said it had a short stride. I tried to find a video of Stingray or Babyflo who are both very short. I could not really find one where you could actually see the reach on the horse. There are a few small horses around here that reach so far that their foot is almost straight out from their chest. Tough little suckers and hard to beat. That Tanner time is a gimmick. It will give a horse a speed index that is false and totally meaningless. I have even seen horses advertised for sale with some speed index determined by Tanner time. Even a speed index of the track has little meaning in the barrel world.
The thing I am thinking is if the interval timing has mph she can compare the mph from start to first, first to second, and see if the horse is really loosing
Interval timing is a gimmick that someone charges competitors for. It does time in MPH or something comparable. All of it is pretty subjective. If there are 400 barrel racers at a barrel race that are pretty fair competitors, you might have one of the fastest times running out. Around here we run against WPRA girls, horses that have won the slot race at the BBR etc. on a regular basis. Our small barrel races have 150 and you have to run a good solid normal 3D time to win the 5D. So like I said, interval timing is very subjective and as CM said it gives you a false hope. If they told people repeatedly that their time running out was 75th out of 90, people would not spend their money on the interval timing. | |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | StreakySox: I'm not really sure how you can tell how far he is reaching on that particular video, as he leaves the 3rd barrel, due to the camera angle. He's doing the best he can. I can't change his conformation and if that's as far as he can reach, then that's just how it is.
This was just a couple weeks ago:
He is missing part of the muscle on the front side of his elbow (I don't know the technical term for it) on the left front leg. I was told when he was a yearling, he was kicked by another horse and they couldn't save the muscle. I've never taken a specific picture of it, but you can kinda see it in the photo above. I've never noticed that it bothers him, nor have my vets, unless it does somehow affect his stride.
I wouldn't call him a small horse. He's about 15.2 hands and weighs about 1,200 pounds when he is in shape.
The interval timing I did does not do MPH or speed index. It simply breaks the pattern down into pieces and compares your "times" to the top 5 individuals and their average. I do not see how that is "subjective". The clock is the clock.
CrapShooter: Thank you for the suggestion ..... but that's okay. I'd rather have a 3D horse who gets to be healthy on pasture 24/7, than the health issues associated with keeping a horse locked up. IMO
Cheryl: He does not have navicular. As I stated in my OP, he has heel pain on both front feet, worse on the front left. It is believed to be caused by an internal bursitis that can only be confirmed via MRI. Since it would not change the treatment protocol, my vets and I agree not to spend the money on one. We are managing him with wedge pads, injections (have only done that once so far), and Previcox when needed.
I looked at the interval timing and they do not have MPH. They only timed how long it took you to complete each piece of the pattern, and compared you to the top 5 runners individual times, as well as the average time pieces of those top 5. On the whole, he took longer to get from the 1st to the 2nd and longer to get from the 2nd to the 3rd, than did the winners of the race. The rest of the pattern (going to first, going around first, going around 2nd, going around 3rd, running home) he was about the same time.
I have EquiTrak on my own phone that I use sometimes when I ride. On a straight-away when I breeze him athome, that has clocked him at 37 MPH for his top speed. I've never really carried my phone with me when we've done a barrel run, but I might try that and see if it gives me a reading on his top speed.
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 How freakish is that?
Posts: 3927
Location: Oregon | Seriously? Horses don't have to be sick or unhealthy being in a non pasture situation. You don't have to stall them just a paddock or something and turn them out a few hours a day. Unless they are a hard keeper or something but I don't see how you can keep the weight off or give them proper nutrition for top performance with pasture 24/7. The pasture life is great but not many top athletes get to eat at Golden Corral every day, all day. You can't feed all the grass they can eat and 1/2 lb of grain and expect optimum performance.
Edited by crapshooter 2015-08-17 8:56 PM
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Expert
Posts: 2678
Location: Mi | r_beau - 2015-08-13 9:36 PM Interesting link. Thanks!
I just measured his grain he normally gets every day with his T.H.E. And he gets about 1/2 a pound. So not much!!
I guess I could increase it and see what happens! I know the Omolene 200 has a lot of molasses (and why he likes it so much!). Is there something better? Is their molasses in the Woodys Summer Heat?
Not to start anything, but if you read the omolene 200 bag, I'm willing to bet its feeding requirements for your horse to reach its nutritional requirements each day is 6-8 lbs, and you're only feeding a half pound. So hes not getting near the nutrients he needs each day. Just something to consider. Im a dealer of Tribute and I don't know if you have any dealers around you, but I'd look for a feed that you can feed less of to get those requirments. Not saying you have to feed tribute or pushing it only suggesting to maybe look for something different.
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 Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | If your horse has a short stride he is not going to clock as fast as those horses with long strides on the straights because he can't cover as much ground. Compare your horses stride to this mare's stride. She is roughly 15-15.1h with a nice reach. This mare clocks even without always having the best turns. I'm sure you can get a little more umph out of your gelding but like you said you can't change the way he is built.
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12842
| r_beau - 2015-08-17 9:02 AM
StreakySox: I'm not really sure how you can tell how far he is reaching on that particular video, as he leaves the 3rd barrel, due to the camera angle. He's doing the best he can. I can't change his conformation and if that's as far as he can reach, then that's just how it is.
This was just a couple weeks ago:
He is missing part of the muscle on the front side of his elbow (I don't know the technical term for it) on the left front leg. I was told when he was a yearling, he was kicked by another horse and they couldn't save the muscle. I've never taken a specific picture of it, but you can kinda see it in the photo above. I've never noticed that it bothers him, nor have my vets, unless it does somehow affect his stride.
I wouldn't call him a small horse. He's about 15.2 hands and weighs about 1,200 pounds when he is in shape.
The interval timing I did does not do MPH or speed index. It simply breaks the pattern down into pieces and compares your "times" to the top 5 individuals and their average. I do not see how that is "subjective". The clock is the clock.
CrapShooter: Thank you for the suggestion ..... but that's okay. I'd rather have a 3D horse who gets to be healthy on pasture 24/7, than the health issues associated with keeping a horse locked up. IMO
Cheryl: He does not have navicular. As I stated in my OP, he has heel pain on both front feet, worse on the front left. It is believed to be caused by an internal bursitis that can only be confirmed via MRI. Since it would not change the treatment protocol, my vets and I agree not to spend the money on one. We are managing him with wedge pads, injections (have only done that once so far), and Previcox when needed.
I looked at the interval timing and they do not have MPH. They only timed how long it took you to complete each piece of the pattern, and compared you to the top 5 runners individual times, as well as the average time pieces of those top 5. On the whole, he took longer to get from the 1st to the 2nd and longer to get from the 2nd to the 3rd, than did the winners of the race. The rest of the pattern (going to first, going around first, going around 2nd, going around 3rd, running home) he was about the same time.
I have EquiTrak on my own phone that I use sometimes when I ride. On a straight-away when I breeze him athome, that has clocked him at 37 MPH for his top speed. I've never really carried my phone with me when we've done a barrel run, but I might try that and see if it gives me a reading on his top speed.
I think you just answered your own question. | |
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One Grateful Mom
Posts: 2702
Location: wolverton,mn | Personally,I think Sara was spot on when she suggested ways to " tune" the horse up to really run in the ARENA.
Amazing what a tune up will do for a horse that has gotten along with just cruising through.
I have a training horse at my horse for that very reason right now,huge difference a hour made! | |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12842
| Just Bring It - 2015-08-17 6:37 PM
If your horse has a short stride he is not going to clock as fast as those horses with long strides on the straights because he can't cover as much ground. Compare your horses stride to this mare's stride. She is roughly 15-15.1h with a nice reach. This mare clocks even without always having the best turns. I'm sure you can get a little more umph out of your gelding but like you said you can't change the way he is built.
That is the way a horse is supposed to reach. Looks good
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  Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7622
Location: Dubach, LA | Just Bring It - That is the coolest thing I've ever seen! | |
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 Serious Snap Trapper
Posts: 4275
Location: In The Snow, AZ | CanCan - 2015-08-18 3:37 AM Just Bring It - That is the coolest thing I've ever seen!
Lol. My exact thought. And now I'm looking for a picture of my mare to see comparison. :-) | |
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | streakysox - 2015-08-17 10:51 PM Just Bring It - 2015-08-17 6:37 PM If your horse has a short stride he is not going to clock as fast as those horses with long strides on the straights because he can't cover as much ground. Compare your horses stride to this mare's stride. She is roughly 15-15.1h with a nice reach. This mare clocks even without always having the best turns. I'm sure you can get a little more umph out of your gelding but like you said you can't change the way he is built.
That is the way a horse is supposed to reach. Looks good
Thanks! Yeah she is fun one that is for sure. Very gritty and gives her all with each run. | |
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | CanCan - 2015-08-18 5:37 AM Just Bring It - That is the coolest thing I've ever seen!
Thanks! I thought it turned out pretty cool. I was going to just do one pic on top of the other and then I got the neat idea to make one a little more clear and overlay them and see how it looked. | |
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Mrs. Troy
Location: western Nebraska | Just Bring It - 2015-08-17 6:49 PM
This is very cool! | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 378
Location: Saskatchewan | I kind of agree with taking him off pasture, my moms rope horse gets stiff/sore in the front end left on full pasture. I have Squiggs on the same program too, just so she isn't fed too much green stuff.
They get a slow feed hay net during the day and locked up in the corral and turned out to graze from 7pm-about 8am. Its not a bad idea at all. I'd give it a shot with ol Red if I were in your position. I cant say anything about feeding him hotter cause I'm feeding my horse cooler lol
Some horses though, just don't have IT to stretch out like you want them too. Whether its conformation related or health related there might be nothing you can do.
Miss Squiggs isn't built like your typical barrel horse, she's 15.3 hh and built like a brick house. She's a very old style built QH, feathers and all. She doesn't look like she should be able to stretch out like she does but she's got a big heart and tries it out for me every time.
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| I watched your videos and while I do feel your horse is somewhat limited by his athletic ability, you are loosing time by not having straight lines between your first and second and second and third. Every step out of a straight line is going to cost you at least 2 tenths (according to research done by Tanner Time and Lynn Mckenzie 10+ years ago if I remember correct). You are taking at least 2 steps out of your straight lines coming out rounded from your first and second barrels.
Also, on your intervals you may have a fast turn on your third because you had a slow approach in (which shows on your line from 2 - 3). You have to read your report in segments, sometimes you had a fast turn, but at the expense of the straights. You want to work to having a balanced report.
You could put cones or tires out in your slow work to ensure you are finishing and leaving each barrel straight and approaching the next one straight. | |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | I like your amateur rodeo run the best. I would try working on the squares exercise. It will eliminate extra steps and have you working on straight lines. Ditto what someone else said about the feed--he's probably not getting enough nutrients. He's healthy enough, but nutrient levels are low. | |
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