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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
  
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | IowaCanChaser - 2015-08-31 5:04 PM Would you guys breeze on a gravel road? I've always been scared the footing wouldn't be very good.
No good way to stone bruise, have one mis-step and fracture, road founder. | |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| I had a mare who had hurt her stifles and i had to mare sure that she was in shape to run and she could trot her a?? off. So every soring i would long trot her. But i had to mare sure i would lope her some otherwise she would get winded when she ran. More long trot but canter or lope some. | |
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 Leggs
Posts: 4680
 
Location: lexington KY | countrygirl2006 - 2015-08-31 3:54 PM polorunner - 2015-08-31 2:36 PM I have always used Marlene McRae's program and it has never failed me. I agree that 2 miles really isnt much for a horse. I like my horses to be in very good condition and a 30 minute program of continuous work doesnt take a lot of time, but this program gets the job done. I dont sprint that often but I do open my horse up a few times a month for a short distance.
http://www.horsechannel.com/horse-experts/western-horse-training-advice/faster-barrel-racing-time.aspx
Having a well-conditioned athlete is the first step to getting your horse to run to his maximum ability. I like to work my horse every day for the first eight weeks of training, and then decrease the training to four days a week. The distance I train and the pace I go are the secrets to a well-conditioned horse that has the ability to run faster during a barrel racing competition.
Condition your horse in long, straight lines whenever possible, as circles are physically hard on a horse. Here is my conditioning program broken down into each step:
• Trot one mile
• Lope one mile on one lead
• Lope one more mile on the opposite lead
• The fourth mile: Long trot the first half mile then slow trot the last half mile.
NOTE: Do not walk in between paces.
This totals four miles, which I feel is the optimum distance for building a well-conditioned equine athlete in barrel racing or any event. I want to keep the heart rate up and work it, then bring the heart rate slowly back down. Every third day, I sprint my horse after the third mile in a straight line for about 400 yards.
You will be impressed how your horse’s muscle tone will change with this type of conditioning program. Before long, you will find that your horse feels like running and will be quicker around the turns and faster in the straightaways.
Does anyone who is an Ed Wright junkie remember what he recommends for conditioning? I've been to a couple clinics and can't remember.
I will add that I work my horses very similar to this, but also a couple days a week I don't travel this far of a distance. When loping, I'll ask them to extend out and step it up a notch compared to a collected lope, but not fully breezing them out. Breezing depends on the horse I'm riding. One I breeze a couple times a week to get freed up, another doesn't need that.
You're welcome! I have tried other programs but always come back to this one. My horses perform on this program. | |
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 Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | I will try to get Aceinthehole to give a recap of her recent discussion with a new vet. It was interesting to say the least.
Compared to the rest of these posts- I can say I am a minimalist. I have been using the EquiTrack app since day one so I do find it helpful. But when I worked at the track- they never went miles and miles per day even on the TBs. So I dont know what is the right thing?
I ride nearly every single day but it averages 3 miles per day with warm up, trot, lope and fast work and cool down.
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 Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
Location: Louisiana | TurnLane - 2015-09-01 4:12 PM
I will try to get Aceinthehole to give a recap of her recent discussion with a new vet. It was interesting to say the least.
Compared to the rest of these posts- I can say I am a minimalist. I have been using the EquiTrack app since day one so I do find it helpful. But when I worked at the track- they never went miles and miles per day even on the TBs. So I dont know what is the right thing?
I ride nearly every single day but it averages 3 miles per day with warm up, trot, lope and fast work and cool down.
Â
Yep, I tracked our mileage yesterday and today and we went about 3 miles both ways. Yesterday we rode trails and long trotted on the good ground, about a mile and a half total. Today I just rode around the field with a half mile walk, mile and a half trot/ long trot, then about three quarters of a mile loping. We didn't lope at all yesterday.
Both days they were blowing pretty good but not just wiped out/over exerted. They still felt good when we stopped.
Edited by dashnlotti 2015-09-01 9:43 PM
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 Tough Patooty
Posts: 2615
Location: Sperry, OK | TurnLane - 2015-09-01 4:12 PM I will try to get Aceinthehole to give a recap of her recent discussion with a new vet. It was interesting to say the least.
Compared to the rest of these posts- I can say I am a minimalist. I have been using the EquiTrack app since day one so I do find it helpful. But when I worked at the track- they never went miles and miles per day even on the TBs. So I dont know what is the right thing?
I ride nearly every single day but it averages 3 miles per day with warm up, trot, lope and fast work and cool down.
While talking to Dr. Nichols at Marietta Vet in Marietta, OK.. He said you should never long trot your horses. First off, he says "what part of the barrel pattern do you trot?". Second he says in order to get your horses long term fiber muscles to fire off, you need to lope with bursts of speed, even if short distances, if you trot to warm your horse up, you get the short acting muscle fibers to fire and your horse will run slower. He says "like begets like". Third thing is he says trotting your horses is the worst possible exercise on their bodies, not only is it extrememly hard on joints, but it is just as hard on their muscles. Jog trotting here to there, he says is fine, but there is really no reason to ever long trott distances, just causes too much damage to the body.
So while having this conversation with him, I asked about soft tissue rehab, how they tell you to trott for so long (be it minutes or miles) and work your way up to loping. He said to just lope, it will do the same for the tissue and is easier on the rest of the body.
Also he said to talk to race horse trainers.. see how much "trotting" they do.... little to none. They train with loping and adding bursts of speed, then back to a slower pace, with bursts of speed, and back down.. but not really any significant trotting.
Edited by ACEINTHEHOLE 2015-09-02 9:38 AM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 364
| Here's an excerpt from an article I found, written by Lisa Lockhart...
'...I do a lot of long trotting. I wouldn't say that I keep track of the miles or anything like that, but I try to judge what my horses need by the experience of being an athlete myself. I start out slow and then long trot a lot, and then graduate to loping. In order to make sure their wind is built up, I think you need to lope your horses. Now with that said, it is a proven fact that long trotting exercises more muscles in the horse's body than just loping.
I try to do a lot of riding at both the long trot and the lope. Depending on how rushed I am, I would say that from the time I leave the barn to the time I come back is somewhere between 25 and 45 minutes. Of course, that allows time to warm up just walking and then time for the horse to cool down. You don't want to jump out and start on a stringent exercise program that is too much for your horse. You need to build up to the maximum workout times. Just make sure you incorporate all gaits in your workout.
I also really like to turn my horses out and allow them to have enough pasture time to keep them happy. Turn-out time helps them relax...
...If you're wondering if your horse is in good shape, you need to assess how winded he gets when working out. If you can lope a horse to build their stamina and then, every once in a while, go maybe a quarter of a mile at a faster lope, you are covering your bases. You have to gauge your horse and see how long you have to ride to get him to sweat or get their breathing labored....' | |
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BHW's Simon Cowell
Location: The Saudia Arabia of Wind Energy, Western Oklahoma | None. I was always told by some very good vets that the trot is the hardest gait on a horse. Walk or lope for me. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 669
Location: Central Texas | polorunner - 2015-08-31 2:36 PM
I have always used Marlene McRae's program and it has never failed me. I agree that 2 miles really isnt much for a horse. I like my horses to be in very good condition and a 30 minute program of continuous work doesnt take a lot of time, but this program gets the job done. I dont sprint that often but I do open my horse up a few times a month for a short distance.Â
http://www.horsechannel.com/horse-experts/western-horse-training-advice/faster-barrel-racing-time.aspx
  Having a well-conditioned athlete is the first step to getting your horse to run to his maximum ability. I like to work my horse every day for the first eight weeks of training, and then decrease the training to four days a week. The distance I train and the pace I go are the secrets to a well-conditioned horse that has the ability to run faster during a barrel racing competition. Condition your horse in long, straight lines whenever possible, as circles are physically hard on a horse.  Here is my conditioning program broken down into each step: • Trot one mile • Lope one mile on one lead • Lope one more mile on the opposite lead • The fourth mile: Long trot the first half mile then slow trot the last half mile. NOTE: Do not walk in between paces. This totals four miles, which I feel is the optimum distance for building a well-conditioned equine athlete in barrel racing or any event. I want to keep the heart rate up and work it, then bring the heart rate slowly back down. Every third day, I sprint my horse after the third mile in a straight line for about 400 yards. You will be impressed how your horse’s muscle tone will change with this type of conditioning program. Before long, you will find that your horse feels like running and will be quicker around the turns and faster in the straightaways.
This is what I was looking for to post. I have it on my fridge and it seems like a really good conditioning program. | |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| If trotting is so bad then why do endurance horses last so long in their sport? I realize it's comparing apples to oranges, but these vets make it sound like trotting is bad for all horses if done for more than a minute or two. How do you strengthen their bones and ligaments/tendons? Trotting has always been an important step in getting my horses in shape. Once I feel that I have done my long slow distance conditioning, then I progress to a more event specific conditioning program with more loping and less trotting, but still do some trotting. I have had no major leg issues going this but I am always open to new techniques/knowledge. | |
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Miracle in the Making
Posts: 4013
| TurnLane - 2015-09-01 5:12 PM I will try to get Aceinthehole to give a recap of her recent discussion with a new vet. It was interesting to say the least.
Compared to the rest of these posts- I can say I am a minimalist. I have been using the EquiTrack app since day one so I do find it helpful. But when I worked at the track- they never went miles and miles per day even on the TBs. So I dont know what is the right thing?
I ride nearly every single day but it averages 3 miles per day with warm up, trot, lope and fast work and cool down.
i am with you i rgalloped quarters at in calif for the best trainerin the country we long troted to wire galloped around the track pulled up on backside long trot back
walked past gates
they were fit i treated my barrel horses same tey went friday night 1 run rodeo saturday depending where 3 runs and possible sunday too
they were sound winning and placing
course now i sdit on m,y butt bored out o my gourd
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 462
Location: Louisiana | I too am working on getting one in condition. Recently while at Dr. Cliff Honnas in Bryan, Texas he told me work up to 20 minutes of long trotting. | |
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Tough Patooty
Posts: 2615
Location: Sperry, OK | GLP - 2015-09-02 1:09 PM If trotting is so bad then why do endurance horses last so long in their sport? I realize it's comparing apples to oranges, but these vets make it sound like trotting is bad for all horses if done for more than a minute or two. How do you strengthen their bones and ligaments/tendons? Trotting has always been an important step in getting my horses in shape. Once I feel that I have done my long slow distance conditioning, then I progress to a more event specific conditioning program with more loping and less trotting, but still do some trotting. I have had no major leg issues going this but I am always open to new techniques/knowledge. Very much comparing apples to oranges. In endurance for horses to be successful, they must have good oxygen use .. meaning they can recover and reoxygenate their bodies much more efficent than your normal QH or TB, they also must have a type of muscling that allows them to cover ground low and quick.. so more muscled towards the slow twitch muscles that can function aerobically. If you have fast twitch muscle horse such as the QH or TB they won't be successful at endurance and will be left in the lurch and tiring as the distance increases (this inablility to recover will also lead to injury). This is why Arabians are the main horse for edurnance.. they have great use of oxygen to the muscles and they get rid of metobolic waste through the liver efficiently, which is also important for muscle health. But they also have to go through a soundness check every so many miles and LOTS of them are eliminated from races for soundness issues as well. But the better the body can recover will help, no matter what gait, to maintain soundness... QH and TB just aren't capable of this efficiently.
Edited by ACEINTHEHOLE 2015-09-02 2:06 PM
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| So, when you are just getting a horse in shape, say he has been out on pasture and hasn't been ridden in several months, what do you do to get those tendon/ligaments and bones in shape? If I decide I don't need to do a lot of trotting in the beginning, it sure would help these aging joints of mine! I just worry about making sure the tendons and ligaments are as strong as they can be before I start stressing them with smaller circles/turns. | |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | I think you can talk to 10 vets and 5 will tell you one thing and 5 will tell you another. I will say that in 35 yrs of having horses and mostly long trotting them-even as a kid. We have never had a lameness or injury that was caused by riding. I have had plenty of wire cuts and pasture injuries. These ranch horses are not in good shape in the spring when we start to calve. Ours sit most of the winter getting fat and lazy. We start off long trotting on day 1 and it takes a good 2 hrs to see the whole pasture. They start off every day feeling fresh and in about 5 days are in pretty darn good shape. They are starting to muscle up and have excellent wind. In 2 weeks they are as hard as any race horse. I'll stick with what works and what keeps my horses injury free. Lisa Lockhart is a rancher so I imagine that same type of program is why she also agrees with long trrotting.
Let them try and cripple themselves out in pasture on their own. | |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Just a thought too. I have talked to many that are in the raising of race horses and they say that a small % of the race horses (QH's) are in actually good enough shape to be in a race. They say that is why you see so many injuries. We would like to think because they are tucked up that they are in shape. But the muscle tone says it all. I'm betting your big stakes horses are in top form, hence why they are winning the stakes. But that is such a small % of the horses that are racing nationwide. | |
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Tough Patooty
Posts: 2615
Location: Sperry, OK | GLP - 2015-09-02 2:18 PM So, when you are just getting a horse in shape, say he has been out on pasture and hasn't been ridden in several months, what do you do to get those tendon/ligaments and bones in shape? If I decide I don't need to do a lot of trotting in the beginning, it sure would help these aging joints of mine! I just worry about making sure the tendons and ligaments are as strong as they can be before I start stressing them with smaller circles/turns.
I would start out walking 10-15 min then loping 5 minutes for 6 days a week, then up the lope to 10 minutes. I would also start out in long straight lines, if possible, only working circles once the horse was in better shape. Circles are also harder on them than straight lines. You can trot if you like, I would for sure not trot for miles though. And any vet worth their salt will tell you, on a horse that has any arthritis or any front end lameness, NOT to trot at all.. it is very hard on them! Also to get the soft tissue and bones in shape.. lope for a few minutes then burst your speed for a short distance, then back to a lope for a few minutes, then burst your speed. Ask any race trainer.. they train with speed burts to help densify the bones to prevent shin bucks and also the short periods of stress will strengthen the soft tissues as well. | |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| ACEINTHEHOLE - 2015-09-02 2:27 PM
GLP - 2015-09-02 2:18 PM So, when you are just getting a horse in shape, say he has been out on pasture and hasn't been ridden in several months, what do you do to get those tendon/ligaments and bones in shape? If I decide I don't need to do a lot of trotting in the beginning, it sure would help these aging joints of mine! I just worry about making sure the tendons and ligaments are as strong as they can be before I start stressing them with smaller circles/turns.
I would start out walking 10-15 min then loping 5 minutes for 6 days a week, then up the lope to 10 minutes. Â I would also start out in long straight lines, if possible, only working circles once the horse was in better shape. Â Circles are also harder on them than straight lines. Â You can trot if you like, I would for sure not trot for miles though. Â And any vet worth their salt will tell you, on a horse that has any arthritis or any front end lameness, NOT to trot at all.. it is very hard on them! Â Also to get the soft tissue and bones in shape.. lope for a few minutes then burst your speed for a short distance, then back to a lope for a few minutes, then burst your speed. Â Ask any race trainer.. they train with speed burts to help densify the bones to prevent shin bucks and also the short periods of stress will strengthen the soft tissues as well.Â
Thank you, I will definitely think hard about this. I have been out of barrel racing for many years and so much has changed and so much knowledge has been gained since I have been out. Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.  | |
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Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
Location: Louisiana | ACEINTHEHOLE - 2015-09-02 2:27 PM GLP - 2015-09-02 2:18 PM So, when you are just getting a horse in shape, say he has been out on pasture and hasn't been ridden in several months, what do you do to get those tendon/ligaments and bones in shape? If I decide I don't need to do a lot of trotting in the beginning, it sure would help these aging joints of mine! I just worry about making sure the tendons and ligaments are as strong as they can be before I start stressing them with smaller circles/turns. I would start out walking 10-15 min then loping 5 minutes for 6 days a week, then up the lope to 10 minutes. I would also start out in long straight lines, if possible, only working circles once the horse was in better shape. Circles are also harder on them than straight lines. You can trot if you like, I would for sure not trot for miles though. And any vet worth their salt will tell you, on a horse that has any arthritis or any front end lameness, NOT to trot at all.. it is very hard on them! Also to get the soft tissue and bones in shape.. lope for a few minutes then burst your speed for a short distance, then back to a lope for a few minutes, then burst your speed. Ask any race trainer.. they train with speed burts to help densify the bones to prevent shin bucks and also the short periods of stress will strengthen the soft tissues as well.
Ok, you have my attention. After a week of long trotting 1.5-2 miles 3 days and very minimal loping, my horse did not perform this morning. He was reluctant to even pick up his left lead warming up. Which worries me bc he has issues on his right front. I had his coffin and pastern injected for the second time in May. So I want to preserve that as long as possible. Could you elaborate on the issues long trotting can cause? Or point me in the direction of some research? Thank you!! | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| ACEINTHEHOLE - 2015-09-02 9:35 AM
TurnLane - 2015-09-01 4:12 PM I will try to get Aceinthehole to give a recap of her recent discussion with a new vet. It was interesting to say the least.
Compared to the rest of these posts- I can say I am a minimalist. I have been using the EquiTrack app since day one so I do find it helpful. But when I worked at the track- they never went miles and miles per day even on the TBs. So I dont know what is the right thing?
I ride nearly every single day but it averages 3 miles per day with warm up, trot, lope and fast work and cool down.
 While talking to Dr. Nichols at Marietta Vet in Marietta, OK.. He said you should never long trot your horses.  First off, he says "what part of the barrel pattern do you trot?".  Second he says in order to get your horses long term fiber muscles to fire off, you need to lope with bursts of speed, even if short distances, if you trot to warm your horse up, you get the short acting muscle fibers to fire and your horse will run slower.  He says "like begets like".  Third thing is he says trotting your horses is the worst possible exercise on their bodies, not only is it extrememly hard on joints, but it is just as hard on their muscles.  Jog trotting here to there, he says is fine, but there is really no reason to ever long trott distances, just causes too much damage to the body.
So while having this conversation with him, I asked about soft tissue rehab, how they tell you to trott for so long (be it minutes or miles) and work your way up to loping. Â He said to just lope, it will do the same for the tissue and is easier on the rest of the body.Â
Also he said to talk to race horse trainers.. see how much "trotting" they do.... little to none. Â They train with loping and adding bursts of speed, then back to a slower pace, with bursts of speed, and back down.. but not really any significant trotting.
I would want to ask this vet about fractures and bone density.
There have been research articles published regarding exercise regimes on thoroughbreds and fractures.
Results of the studies show if loping or trotting alone these horses have less bone density and are more prone to fractures then the horses who did both loping and trotting.
I would also question what he says about warmup, as if you just start loping your horse without warmup, their tendons and ligaments will be damaged.
Also stifles if you have a loose stifle, long trotting is the rehab, so what does he say about this?
I would like I see the evidence based research he is getting his information from
Edited by cheryl makofka 2015-09-06 10:57 AM
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