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Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
 
| ThreeCorners - 2015-09-22 7:58 PM svincent - 2015-09-22 9:46 PM grinandbareit - 2015-09-22 6:07 PM This means that everyone needs to make a choice. PRCA is saying that if it weren't for them and their sanctioned rodeos, no one would even know their name. So choose... you want to start your own business? Make the leap and don't expect us to continue to let you benefit from our organization. Which, kind of seems reasonable. The PRCA is essentially doing the age-old "my house, my rules - don't like it? Get out." This will only affect the competitors who have an administrative position in the ERA. It really does create a bit of a conflict of interest. Would the Cubs want an employee who was an administrator for the Yankees? No. The PRCA didn't throw down, the ERA did - simply by existing. This is the PRCA protecting themselves, and they are right to do so. The ERA athletes can't have their cake and eat it to. If that means that these first couple of years they have to bootstrap it without the income from PRCA, so be it. That's the price of being a business owner, the first few years aren't guaranteed to be rosey. The difference I see between the PBR vs PRCA vs ERA is that the PBR only affects ONE event, the ERA affects ALL the events, which means they are potentially a lot more competitive with the PRCA. I don't have a bad thought about this either way, but I definitely don't blame the PRCA for doing this. They are essentially adding a "noncompete" - which any savvy business already has, but wasn't even on the table when the PRCA was first organized.
Agreed... |
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Regular
Posts: 61
| The difference in the comparison of pro baseball vs rodeo is that PRCA members aren't guarenteed a salary like other pro sports. I would say that Karl Stressman has been nothing but a puppet for wrangler during his tenure and has not had the best interest of the Cowboys and cowgirls in mind on most decisions. The sooner he retires the better for the members, in my opinion. He was a executive at wrangler before coming to the PRCA and he seems to be there "boy"! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| If they try to prevent those top notch people from running/competing, it will be the start of the end for PRCA. Don't fight bigger and better things, because it will not usually end in your favor. Just my thought. |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | FlyingHigh1454 - 2015-09-22 11:08 PM If they try to prevent those top notch people from running/competing, it will be the start of the end for PRCA. Don't fight bigger and better things, because it will not usually end in your favor. Just my thought.
I highly doubt it will be the start of the end for the PRCA. Have you seen the money Vegas is paying out in the new contract? Not every one is going to be "elite" enough to make the ERA "tour" and those who can't are definitely going to want the PRCA rodeos to fall back on. JMO. Not trying to be rude, but for those who make their living rodeo are still going to want the PRCA around. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
| FlyingHigh1454 - 2015-09-22 9:08 PM
If they try to prevent those top notch people from running/competing, it will be the start of the end for PRCA. Don't fight bigger and better things, because it will not usually end in your favor. Just my thought.
It just kicks out most of the people that can "win" the hauling contest every year. Now those who are #16-30 in the World every year will have a shot at Vegas and are of equal talent to those in the top 15 every year. They just don't have to sponsors that some of those in the top 15 have. I can't see it hurting PRCA or the NFR. Every one of those ERA athletes were a "nobody" once. The PRCA will have new superstars. They're out there. |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | TxBronc - 2015-09-22 8:53 PM
The difference in the comparison of pro baseball vs rodeo is that PRCA members aren't guarenteed a salary like other pro sports. I would say that Karl Stressman has been nothing but a puppet for wrangler during his tenure and has not had the best interest of the Cowboys and cowgirls in mind on most decisions. The sooner he retires the better for the members, in my opinion. He was a executive at wrangler before coming to the PRCA and he seems to be there "boy"!
Salary for employees has nothing to do with it. This is the running of BUSINESSES. Would Chevron be expected to allow an employee to continue on while said employee worked to build the next big gas company? No. PRCA and ERA are BUSINESSES, not sports. They are in the BUSINESS of producing sporting events.
It is a conflict of interest to be building Business B while working for Business A.
If you take the emotion out of it, and look at it from a business standpoint - PRCA is SPOT ON. No other business would EVER be ridiculed for not wanting to financially support its attempted competitor. If the ERA wants to exist, great. PRCA is just telling them they are taking away the credit card and car keys.
ETA: the ERA isn't "bigger and better" yet. It hardly even exists. It's just new and different at this point. If you think it IS bigger and better already, then why on Earth would the ERA members be concerned about their ability to compete in PRCA?
The salary argument is getting old. These folks aren't FORCED to rodeo, nobody assigned them this career. If they dreamed of job security and salaries they should have chosen differently. Clearly they dreamed of careers where they got to participate in their favorite sport, lack of salary be darned - which is AWESOME. I just wish people would stop throwing the salary argument out as if rodeo athletes were hoodwinked into signing on and then told "oh, by the way, there's no salary. You have to earn every penny."
I AM IN NO WAY SAYING THAT RODEO ATHLETES DO NOT DESERVE TO BE PAID LIKE THE SUPERSTARS THEY ARE. I'm just saying, they obviously didn't get into rodeo for the money, they got into for the love. So for people to keep playing the salary card is a bit of a moot point.
Edited by svincent 2015-09-23 12:34 AM
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Regular
Posts: 61
| svincent - 2015-09-22 11:57 PM
TxBronc - 2015-09-22 8:53 PM
The difference in the comparison of pro baseball vs rodeo is that PRCA members aren't guarenteed a salary like other pro sports. I would say that Karl Stressman has been nothing but a puppet for wrangler during his tenure and has not had the best interest of the Cowboys and cowgirls in mind on most decisions. The sooner he retires the better for the members, in my opinion. He was a executive at wrangler before coming to the PRCA and he seems to be there "boy"!
Salary for employees has nothing to do with it. This is the running of BUSINESSES. Would Chevron be expected to allow an employee to continue on while said employee worked to build the next big gas company? No. PRCA and ERA are BUSINESSES, not sports. They are in the BUSINESS of producing sporting events.
It is a conflict of interest to be building Business B while working for Business A.
If you take the emotion out of it, and look at it from a business standpoint - PRCA is SPOT ON. No other business would EVER be ridiculed for not wanting to financially support its attempted competitor. If the ERA wants to exist, great. PRCA is just telling them they are taking away the credit card and car keys.
ETA: the ERA isn't "bigger and better" yet. It hardly even exists. It's just new and different at this point. If you think it IS bigger and better already, then why on Earth would the ERA members be concerned about their ability to compete in PRCA?
The salary argument is getting old. These folks aren't FORCED to rodeo, nobody assigned them this career. If they dreamed of job security and salaries they should have chosen differently. Clearly they dreamed of careers where they got to participate in their favorite sport, lack of salary be darned - which is AWESOME. I just wish people would stop throwing the salary argument out as if rodeo athletes were hoodwinked into signing on and then told "oh, by the way, there's no salary. You have to earn every penny."
I AM IN NO WAY SAYING THAT RODEO ATHLETES DO NOT DESERVE TO BE PAID LIKE THE SUPERSTARS THEY ARE. I'm just saying, they obviously didn't get into rodeo for the money, they got into for the love. So for people to keep playing the salary card is a bit of a moot point.
You do realize that the PRCA is a non profit, I hope? |
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| I believe the intent is to keep those involved with developing ERA out of participation with the PRCA.... What about the little guy? Many states have what we call "amateur" rodeos but are set up as professional rodeo associations. Many of the people that help with these associations also hold their PRCA cards to run at all the smaller PRCA rodeos in their circuits. I'm not sure legally how PRCA can separate ERA from these much smaller associations. For example, a chairperson of one of these small associations will have to choose between continuing with their association OR run at the smaller PRCA rodeos. Either the small association will lose because no one is willing to hold a chair or the small PRCA rodeos will lose because lack of participation. |
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 Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | Cinchy girl - 2015-09-23 8:49 AM I believe the intent is to keep those involved with developing ERA out of participation with the PRCA.... What about the little guy? Many states have what we call "amateur" rodeos but are set up as professional rodeo associations. Many of the people that help with these associations also hold their PRCA cards to run at all the smaller PRCA rodeos in their circuits. I'm not sure legally how PRCA can separate ERA from these much smaller associations. For example, a chairperson of one of these small associations will have to choose between continuing with their association OR run at the smaller PRCA rodeos. Either the small association will lose because no one is willing to hold a chair or the small PRCA rodeos will lose because lack of participation.
This is my concern as well. What about every other rodeo assoc. OTHER than the ERA? |
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 Go For It!
Location: Texas |
I think the real issue here is sponsorship money. The ERA is a threat to the sponsorship money that the PRCA has worked so hard to get. Unlike small associations, the ERA has the ability to take with it LOTS of sponsorship dollars. Quite frankly, if they have that kind of pull it is very possible that they could directly compete for certain rodeos as well. Keep in mind that they still haven't let the cat out of the bag in regards to qualifications. If the ERA does things right and gets enough sponsors, it could put an end to the PRCA as we know it. Rodeos in my area alone, like Houston, Ft Worth, Austin, San Antonio... those could become ERA rodeos. Corpus Christi, Seguin, Hempstead, Bellville, etc. those could be qualifiers. I'm sure the powers that be, in the PRCA have thought about that possibility. As far as the WPRA goes... luckily they have diversified some, but I'm sure it will have an effect on them as well.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1034
| Maybe it's too early for me to be reading legalese, but my first thought was "I wonder if they will decline to renew Fallon and Charmayne", but then I remembered they are WPRA members, not PRCA.
Does this have any impact at all on barrel racing members of ERA? Is WPRA going to adopt similar by laws? |
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  Fact Checker
Posts: 16572
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Just Bring It - 2015-09-23 9:07 AM Cinchy girl - 2015-09-23 8:49 AM I believe the intent is to keep those involved with developing ERA out of participation with the PRCA.... What about the little guy? Many states have what we call "amateur" rodeos but are set up as professional rodeo associations. Many of the people that help with these associations also hold their PRCA cards to run at all the smaller PRCA rodeos in their circuits. I'm not sure legally how PRCA can separate ERA from these much smaller associations. For example, a chairperson of one of these small associations will have to choose between continuing with their association OR run at the smaller PRCA rodeos. Either the small association will lose because no one is willing to hold a chair or the small PRCA rodeos will lose because lack of participation. This is my concern as well. What about every other rodeo assoc. OTHER than the ERA?
^^^^ Exactly....this is more "far reaching" than what is being considered. Most people are just looking at the ERA but it WILL affect every contestant who participates (or has a "financial interest") in any rodeo, rodeo committee, stock contracting business, holds an office or promotion of any other rodeo association....and the list goes on......
But I will bet those at the bottom of the "totem pole" are doing the "happy dance"....more chances for them to win!
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Location: Texas | HorseMommyFiveO - 2015-09-23 9:20 AM
Maybe it's too early for me to be reading legalese, but my first thought was "I wonder if they will decline to renew Fallon and Charmayne", but then I remembered they are WPRA members, not PRCA.
Does this have any impact at all on barrel racing members of ERA? Is WPRA going to adopt similar by laws?
Well you can bet with the current WPRA President, the stance that the PRCA has taken will be adopted by the end of the week. For Carolyn Vitor whatever the PRCA does she follows |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 595
Location: nj | I don't really care about the ERA.. since I am not a fan of the whole concept. But I do worry if this impacts the local rodeo associations and bulls & barrel type deals. |
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 Toastest with the Mostest
Posts: 5712
Location: That part of Texas | NJJ - 2015-09-23 9:25 AM Just Bring It - 2015-09-23 9:07 AM Cinchy girl - 2015-09-23 8:49 AM I believe the intent is to keep those involved with developing ERA out of participation with the PRCA.... What about the little guy? Many states have what we call "amateur" rodeos but are set up as professional rodeo associations. Many of the people that help with these associations also hold their PRCA cards to run at all the smaller PRCA rodeos in their circuits. I'm not sure legally how PRCA can separate ERA from these much smaller associations. For example, a chairperson of one of these small associations will have to choose between continuing with their association OR run at the smaller PRCA rodeos. Either the small association will lose because no one is willing to hold a chair or the small PRCA rodeos will lose because lack of participation. This is my concern as well. What about every other rodeo assoc. OTHER than the ERA?
But I will bet those at the bottom of the "totem pole" are doing the "happy dance"....more chances for them to win!
Most people in the horse world have become slightly familiar with terms like anti-trust laws and monopoly issues from the cloning suit against the AQHA. I have a feeling we are all about to be educated some more on these issues because the actions of the PRCA in passing these by-laws and using that specific language about "financial interest of any form" has them in the cross-hairs for violation of U.S. anti-trust laws and consumer protection concerns. Moves by organizations to cut out the competition completely are always looked on skeptically and limiting consumer rights (i.e., we can't buy our permits from your club if we own permits from another) always triggers those anti-trust laws and the provisions therein that protect consumers from business bullies.
It's going to be interesting.
Edited by Red Raider 2015-09-23 10:15 AM
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Fact Checker
Posts: 16572
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Red Raider - 2015-09-23 10:02 AM NJJ - 2015-09-23 9:25 AM Just Bring It - 2015-09-23 9:07 AM Cinchy girl - 2015-09-23 8:49 AM I believe the intent is to keep those involved with developing ERA out of participation with the PRCA.... What about the little guy? Many states have what we call "amateur" rodeos but are set up as professional rodeo associations. Many of the people that help with these associations also hold their PRCA cards to run at all the smaller PRCA rodeos in their circuits. I'm not sure legally how PRCA can separate ERA from these much smaller associations. For example, a chairperson of one of these small associations will have to choose between continuing with their association OR run at the smaller PRCA rodeos. Either the small association will lose because no one is willing to hold a chair or the small PRCA rodeos will lose because lack of participation. This is my concern as well. What about every other rodeo assoc. OTHER than the ERA?
But I will bet those at the bottom of the "totem pole" are doing the "happy dance"....more chances for them to win!
Most people in the horse world have become slightly familiar with terms like anti-trust laws and monopoly issues from the cloning suit against the AQHA. I have a feeling we are all about to be educated some more on these issues because the actions of the PRCA in passing these by-laws and using that specific language about "financial interest of any form" has them in the cross-hairs for violation of U.S. anti-trust laws and consumer protection concerns. Moves by organizations to cut out the competition completely are always looked on skeptically and limiting consumer rights (i.e., we can't buy our permits from your club if we own permits from another) always triggers those anti-trust laws and the provisions therein that protect consumers from business bullies.
It's going to be interesting.
It's going to be interesting.
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Go For It!
Location: Texas | HorseMommyFiveO - 2015-09-23 9:20 AM
Maybe it's too early for me to be reading legalese, but my first thought was "I wonder if they will decline to renew Fallon and Charmayne", but then I remembered they are WPRA members, not PRCA.
Does this have any impact at all on barrel racing members of ERA? Is WPRA going to adopt similar by laws?
Actually, if the WPRA is smart, they would begin negotiations wirh the ERA about hosting or sanctioning the qualifier events for the barrel racers. Much like BBR does with the American. That way they can keep those doors open for their membership.
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW |
Totally agree about possibly too much too late. They are on the offensive a bit now, when in fact they should have had this bylaw years ago (or something like it) and been on the defensive.
This will be interesting to keep an eye on FOR SURE. |
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 The Worst Seller Ever
Posts: 4138
Location: Oklahoma | What about the supporters that the certain cowboys bring in? Does the PRCA not understand that some just come to watch one person compete? Like any sports athlete, the fans of the athlete follow the athlete throught the trades they may be involved in.
Most aren't a fan of the "PRCA" like they might be of the "Yankees", they are fans of Tuff, Trevor, Fallon, ect. The fans will follow their stars IMO. |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | grinandbareit - 2015-09-23 8:58 AM
HorseMommyFiveO - 2015-09-23 9:20 AM
Maybe it's too early for me to be reading legalese, but my first thought was "I wonder if they will decline to renew Fallon and Charmayne", but then I remembered they are WPRA members, not PRCA.
Does this have any impact at all on barrel racing members of ERA? Is WPRA going to adopt similar by laws?
Actually, if the WPRA is smart, they would begin negotiations wirh the ERA about hosting or sanctioning the qualifier events for the barrel racers. Much like BBR does with the American. That way they can keep those doors open for their membership.
SO AGREE!!!!
It really would be nice if everybody would share the sandbox nicely to grow our sport. Unfortunately, businesses don't always agree. But it's nice to dream. Lol |
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