rachellyn80 - 2015-09-23 7:50 AM

 I know that it wasn't until I made a run in my daughter's saddle a couple of months ago that I realized that I had been riding in a saddle that didn't fit me at all.  I've always preferred a bigger seat and exercise my horses in a ranch cutting saddle.  My Caldwell was a 14.5" and I loved it..until I made a run in my daughter's 14" Allen Ranch and wasn't struggling to stay up where I needed to be.  I've had a Crown C, Caldwell ProMax, Three Forks Merrill, Double J Record Breaker, and random others in the past ten years.  Hands down the best fitting, most comfortable saddle is my Allen Ranch that I bought the next day after using Pj's.  My Allen Ranch doesn't have a crazy wide gullet or a wide tree and it fits everything I've put it on with a pad change.  The pad I ride under it on my big mare is barely 1/2" thick and only weighs 24oz.  

The thing that I've noticed about the people that are riding the wide gullet Crown C's is that they stay tipped forward and fight their saddle rather than ride their horse.  My Crown C had a 7" gullet and it was just awkward to ride.  Barrel saddles aren't typically made in larger sizes...which also creates an issue for a person that actually needs a 16" seat and is wedged into a 14.5".  They have no idea how much more comfortable they would be and better able to ride in a cutting saddle that would allow them to move. 

wickedstepmother - 2015-09-23 9:59 AM YES!!! 100% Agreed! I ride in a true 15.5. Dad gave me one of his ranch saddles cause I didn't like training in barrel saddles cause tey just don't put you in the right spot to ride colts. IMO. I wish I could run barrels in that thing but it's HEAVY, lol. Either way, I agree with your post so much. If you are above a size 9 jeans, you need bigger than a 14.5 seat. My daughter rides in a 15 and she's a very fit 14 year old athlete. And before anyone gets their panties in a wad, I'm a fatty. So there. But think about the actual dynamics of where the saddle sits with an extra super wide saddle and then the tendency of people to ride in too small of a seat.

LMS - 2015-09-23 10:19 AM

I really do worry A LOT about saddle fit for my horses-I've been through 3-4 different saddles in the last 2-3 years, takes me awhile to realize when one fits the horse-but I've tipped several money winning barrels that the saddle doesn't fit ME, so went searching again found a saddle that fit me-or so I thought-flopped around like a large monkey-fit my horse good-found another with the same tree-smaller seat-but still flopped around-had a lower cantle- In the mean time my hubby had a head horse show up with white marks by the wither-OMG!  Bad saddle-need to find a new one!  Hubby says H$!! no!  I like the way that saddle holds me where I need to be!  He found CSI pads-we now have 4 of them and a set of shims-however, the shims NEVER get used.  I have a saddle that fits me well and puts me where I want to be and he has horses without white marks.  I'm one of the few that will put my own security ahead of my horses-besides if I can't ride the horse-what the heck does it matter if he's sore or not??  I must admit the crown c is a nice riding rig I used one for awhile from a friend, however, I always felt like I was tipped too far forward- like I was going over the front.  I bought a Mary Walker saddle that I love-so secure and I don't think it fits my horse too bad either-several say-oh its too narrow for my horse-but honestly, I've never had nicer sweat marks on 2 different horses than I do with this saddle.  BUT I will always use a CSI pad just to be sure.   They are the fad that has really proven to me their worth.

Herbie - 2015-09-23 11:31 AM Equibrand (Classic Equine/Martin Saddlery) has an advertising/marketing department that is equal to that of other major athletic companies we all recognize by just a slogan or their logo.  They do an outstanding job with advertising, endorsements, technical features, etc in getting these products out and showing us why we need them.  I have some good friends that work there and respect them as being leaders in our market.....I also work in the western market in manufacturing/marketing.  Through the years I have ridden almost every style or brand of saddle out there at one point or another trying to find a true balanced saddle that was both balanced on my horse, and encouraged me to ride balanced in the set.   That being said, I don't buy into the wide gullet philosophy, however I can see the importance of different bar spreads, bar flares, etc to accommodate those very wide backed, wide shouldered horses.....they certainly all aren't created equal.  What I have seen with the majority of the Crown C's I see people riding is a saddle that is sitting way down hill on a horse, the pommel is much lower than the cantle, even when shimmed.  Simple physics and the law of gravity proves that the lowest point of any object will bear the most weight.  I prefer for a saddle to sit balanced on a horse's back, and if anything, ride slightly uphill.  Kind of like pulling a gooseneck trailer....if the nose of your trailer is lower than the back, it's not going to pull very good, your truck isn’t going to ride very smooth, and it isn’t going to be efficient.  Raise the nose of the trailer to where it sits even or nose slightly higher than rear, it’s going to pull better and be more efficient on your truck, as the weight is more evenly distributed over the axles rather than all the weight being in the bed of your pickup. 



Occasionally I have a customer i'm riding a horse for or a kiddo i'm helping improve their horse and I see both the horse and jockey dumping on the front end and I try to put this in a term they can understand, so I compare the horse to a boat, and the rear of the horse to the motor of the boat.  If you're in a boat and the nose of the boat is down and the back is in the air a little bit, you're not going to get much propulsion to go forward.  Nor do you pack a bunch of cargo in the front of a boat.  If anything you pack it in the back and be sure it's packed evenly on the sides to make the boat travel most efficiently.  Same thing IMO with a saddle on a horse.  I want a balanced fit that is slightly uphill if anything, like a gooseneck trailer and a boat, to keep my horse's motor in the water and keep me balanced riding him. 



The folks at Equibrand are no dummies and they found a niche here to market these wide gullet saddles all the while creating an add-on sale with the shims.  I'm not saying there aren't some horses that can't benefit from a bit more room through the shoulder, but I admittedly cringe when I see these saddles on horses at barrel races that the pommel is 3 - 4" below the cantle even with shims. 

 

Herbie - 2015-09-23 11:31 AM Equibrand (Classic Equine/Martin Saddlery) has an advertising/marketing department that is equal to that of other major athletic companies we all recognize by just a slogan or their logo.  They do an outstanding job with advertising, endorsements, technical features, etc in getting these products out and showing us why we need them.  I have some good friends that work there and respect them as being leaders in our market.....I also work in the western market in manufacturing/marketing.  Through the years I have ridden almost every style or brand of saddle out there at one point or another trying to find a true balanced saddle that was both balanced on my horse, and encouraged me to have a balanced seat....meaning when I stand up in my stirrups, my feet don't automatically swing toward my horse's flank.   That being said, I don't buy into the wide gullet philosophy, however I can see the importance of different bar spreads, bar flares, etc to accommodate those very wide backed, wide shouldered horses.....they certainly all aren't created equal.  What I have seen with the majority of the Crown C's I see people riding is a saddle that is sitting way down hill on a horse, the pommel is much lower than the cantle, even when shimmed.  Simple physics and the law of gravity proves that the lowest point of any object will bear the most weight.  I prefer for a saddle to sit balanced on a horse's back, and if anything, ride slightly uphill.  Kind of like pulling a gooseneck trailer....if the nose of your trailer is lower than the back back of your trailer, it's not going to pull very good, your truck isn’t going to ride very smooth, and it isn’t going to be efficient.  Raise the nose of the trailer to where it sits even or nose slightly higher than rear, it’s going to pull better and be more efficient on your truck and for your truck, as the weight is more evenly distributed over the axles rather than all the weight being in the bed of your pickup. 



Occasionally I have a customer i'm riding a horse for or a kiddo i'm helping improve their horse and I see both the horse and jockey dumping on the front end and I try to put this in a term they can understand, so I compare the horse to a boat, and the rear of the horse to the motor of the boat.  If you're in a boat and the nose of the boat is down and the back is in the air a little bit, you're not going to get much propulsion to go forward.  Nor do you pack a bunch of cargo in the front of a boat.  If anything you pack it in the back and be sure it's packed evenly on the sides to make the boat travel most efficiently.  Same thing IMO with a saddle on a horse.  I want a balanced fit that is slightly uphill if anything, like a gooseneck trailer and a boat, to keep my horse's motor in the water and keep me balanced riding him. 



The folks at Equibrand are no dummies and they found a niche here to market these wide gullet saddles all the while creating an add-on sale with the shims.  I'm not saying there aren't some horses that can't benefit from a bit more room through the shoulder, but I admittedly cringe when I see these saddles on horses at barrel races that the pommel is 3 - 4" below the cantle even with shims. 

 

Tdove - 2015-09-23 9:40 AM Herbie, you and I sure seem to think very similar and you have a way of explaining things, that I think is easily understood. Thanks, and again I agree with what you wrote. A saddle should definitely fit balanced front to back and there is a lot of variation from just gullet width, even down to how a maker builds the saddle. Here is a picture of one of my Harry Jones roping saddles. It fit this horse like a glove. I am not incredibly knowledgeable about barrel horses, but I see no reason why a barrel saddle should fit any different than a roping or cutting saddle. The same basic principles of saddle fit should apply, universally.

LMS - 2015-09-23 10:33 AM Don't forget CSI has 2 different size liners that might help.  Honestly I rope with the thinner liner on my heel horse-but his rope saddle fits him so well, I think I could use a napkin.  The head horses all have the thicker liner in their CSI.   Sorry to get off track, but wanted to emphasize, that I've tried ALL the types of pads that are on the market.  Most have a place but if your saddle doesn't fit perfectly look into a CSI. (wish I sold them after all the rah rah I've given them) 

hammer_time - 2015-09-23 3:12 PM PS TDove anytime I see one of your horses i am drooling. Next time I need a horse I'm heading your way!!!!'