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Blessed 
   
Location: Here | Herbie - 2015-09-29 1:20 PM Tdove, you should post this question on www.secondvet.com, as it would be an interesting read for alot of us. Basically sythetics contribute to the inflammation and aggravation in the hind gut, which then affects assimilation of all nutrients, which then requires us to feed more. The inflammation in the hind gut causes the immune system to become a bit over reactive and affects the immune respose to issues which would normally be fought off without hesitation, often leading to what we see as chronic inflammatory issues from allergies, chronic joint issues, chronic digestive issues, etc. What I have learned this year is that every function and issue we have in the body....unless it is an acute injury.....is related to the gut. When inflammation is present in the gut, there will be inflammation present elsewhere in the body, which can lead to very serious issues down the road if left unattended.
When you read the label of your feed and/or supplements, if in the ingredient list there are vitamins and minerals listed such as Calcium, Magnesium, Phosphorous, etc.....these are not naturally occuring vitamins and minerals. These sythetics are added to the ration to try to balance the vit/min levels, and are also proven to be contributing factors to the inflammation in the hind gut.
You are exactly correct about the Gut. 80 % of our immune system comes from the gut. The body can't process the synthetic . And I personally know if I come incontact with sythetic I get immediately sick. I think I was the only child that couldn't eat flintstone vitamins.. | |
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Blessed
Location: Here | I feed the loose natural salt or sea salt. Always have. I am not a fan of loose mineral especially when it is loaded with sugar.. Most animals aka deer get what they need from the forage and from nature if you give the animal the opportunity.
Since I have learned to eat properly (thanks NTO for saving my life and no that isn't an exaggeration it is the truth) I have learned that eating REAL foods is more important for us than anything. Learning to listen to your body and trust the good cravings you will be healthy. Our horses are no different | |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | I have a question. Since minerals are elements of the earth, how do you make synthetic ones? I've heard of synthetic vits but never synthetic minerals. | |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Three 4 Luck - 2015-09-29 8:39 PM I have a question. Since minerals are elements of the earth, how do you make synthetic ones? I've heard of synthetic vits but never synthetic minerals.
"All minerals used in nutrient manufacture are basically dirt. The iron, calcium, zinc etc. are just mined ore, pulverized and powdered to a fine dust. This doesn't make it any easier to assimilate...Modern research shows us that minerals of this type are 99% inassimilable. The manufacturers response to this is to add pig digestive enzymes, which supposedly pre-digests it or chelates it, in their attempts to force our body to accept this toxic material. Is this practice of chelating minerals really to our benefit or a dangerous act of ignorance?"
http://www.foodkills.org/synthetics.html
http://www.doctorsresearch.com/articles3.html | |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota |  This is fascinating. But also slightly disturbing. I've been so happy with with my Progressive Grass Balancer because my horses look FANTASTIC but now I'm rethinking everything...I mean they get whole oats, alfalfa, grass hay, beet pulp, Renew Gold, and for Cash an omega 3 supplement and msm/inflammation supplement in addition to it but it just has kinda just completed the puzzle and I'm not sure what would be a "natural" replacement? I know the best thing would be actually having a pasture but that's not possible at least until I make a few million in real estate and buy my own ranch....but that will take a while. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 396
| Very informative and interesting!!
I have a question though, I keep a 12:12 mineral block around with a salt block just in case. My horses are going after it this fall, they left it alone this summer. I thought horses would only lick it when they needed? After reading this I'm sure it's synthetic minerals.
Edited by oranges 2015-09-30 8:29 AM
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | Herbie, for some reason I am unable to view secondvet.com.
My question is this, If we feed grass hay to broodmares on limited pasture, what should I be giving them if not a mineral block or tub? In the past I have used Sweetpro 16 and Purina Essentials. Same question for my growing weanlings and yearlings, do they need mineral supplementation and if so, what do I give them?
This is truly a very confusing subject....and as a producer, cost effectiveness is critical. Thanks.
Edited by Tdove 2015-09-30 9:12 AM
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  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | Tdove - 2015-09-30 9:10 AM Herbie, for some reason I am unable to view secondvet.com. My question is this, If we feed grass hay to broodmares on limited pasture, what should I be giving them if not a mineral block or tub? In the past I have used Sweetpro 16 and Purina Essentials. Same question for my growing weanlings and yearlings, do they need mineral supplementation and if so, what do I give them? This is truly a very confusing subject....and as a producer, cost effectiveness is critical. Thanks.
Looks like the forum may be down for some reason right now.
That is tough for sure! Let me ask you this....do you think that between the Omnis cubes and grass hay they aren't getting enough? My bet is that they are getting most everything they need through the grass hay, the omnis and pasture, but I could be wrong. If you don't supplement with a grain or ration balance of some kind, do they fall off or have issues? Sometimes I think we have a tendency to overthink some of this....or at least I know I have been guilty of that in the past. My gut feeling is that these grains we feed mares, babies, and young horses are contributing to alot of the soundness issues we have once we get to competition age. For example....this same colt I have had some many respiratory issues with in the last year i've owned since he was a weanling, so I know everything there is to know about him. Even then, he had a quality about him that set him apart from the other horses on our place, and we fed him by the book....meaning what the "experts" recommended, as we had intentions on sending him to the race track and then running him at futurities. Alfalfa and grass hay, Purina feed specific young, growing horses, left him turned out so he could develop strong bones and learn to use himself in the pasture. We never overfed him, he was never obesely fat....we weren't sale prepping. He never received any supplements or any product to try to increase growth whatsoever. As a yearling, he began to develop epiphysitis (sp?) and we backed off his feed and alfalfa. He lost weight. Growth spurt? Maybe. Then he developed a very serious respiratory infection that set him back, he wouldn't eat, he was very sick.....and every since then he has had these dust allergies that i've band-aided for all these years until they spun out of control and nearly killed him last winter.
Just for the sake of argument, let's say that had I kept him on a forage only diet with good quality alfalfa and grass hay, would this have made any difference in the epiphysitis? What about the respiratory condition? Maybe....but maybe not. After everything I have learned in the last year, i'm leaning toward probably so. Everything is tied into the gut and I think we often try to over care for our horses through supplementation, marketing driven processed grains that are expensive and advertised to be "complete" feeds, when all our horse really needs is plenty of good quality forage. They may not look like they're ready to go through the sale ring as babies, but in all honesty, I don't think they should and it's not healthy for them to be heavy and halter horse fat.....no different than any adolescent being obese.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 413
| I love this thread. So much valuable information!!
I am feeding renew gold and CurOst. Going to move some oats into my equation. | |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | Does anyone know if the Redmond blocks are synthetic? I have one out and both horses lick on it from time to time. | |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | Herbie - 2015-09-29 2:20 PM
kaleydanielle - 2015-09-29 2:06 PM herbie, so how do you be sure your horse is getting what it needs besides good quality forage? I was forced to find a better way, as I was looking at having to euthanize my horse.  I didn't go this route at first, as I too was skeptical, but I can tell you that if your horse's hindgut is working like it should, he will utilize everything he eats. I stumbled across the Cur-OST company when googling and trying to find ways to help my horse.  Dr. Schell, the creator of the product, is the one who I credit for getting me on this path and taking the time to explain things in terms I can wrap my pea brain around. Â
I have never tested my hay, but I do feed alfalfa once daily, 2 flakes (the other half of the day my horses go out on grass). I feed 1 pound of whole oats once daily and only use the oats as a medium in which to mix my Cur-Ost. The oats are not intended to be a source of nutrition necessarily. As far as me knowing if he's getting everything he needs......the proof is in the pudding for me. I know my horse and have seen him at his worst. So many of the issues we had even before he got sick are gone, and he's a completely different horse than before. We went on a trail ride this past Sunday and some of my friends who haven't seen him since last year were blown away at how different he is not only physically but mentally as well. Â
Herbie, do you remember the admonishment from another post about only straight on shots of your horses from here on out? You have failed to comply. . . . | |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Longneck - 2015-09-30 10:46 PM Does anyone know if the Redmond blocks are synthetic? I have one out and both horses lick on it from time to time.
I think where minerals are concerned, there's no such thing as an actual synthetic mineral, it's just that the mined minerals are less bio-available than minerals eaten in your food. Supposedly. I keep loose minerals out and they eat the most when they have the least grass available. | |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | Chandler's Mom - 2015-09-30 11:13 PM Herbie - 2015-09-29 2:20 PM kaleydanielle - 2015-09-29 2:06 PM herbie, so how do you be sure your horse is getting what it needs besides good quality forage? I was forced to find a better way, as I was looking at having to euthanize my horse. I didn't go this route at first, as I too was skeptical, but I can tell you that if your horse's hindgut is working like it should, he will utilize everything he eats. I stumbled across the Cur-OST company when googling and trying to find ways to help my horse. Dr. Schell, the creator of the product, is the one who I credit for getting me on this path and taking the time to explain things in terms I can wrap my pea brain around.
I have never tested my hay, but I do feed alfalfa once daily, 2 flakes (the other half of the day my horses go out on grass). I feed 1 pound of whole oats once daily and only use the oats as a medium in which to mix my Cur-Ost. The oats are not intended to be a source of nutrition necessarily. As far as me knowing if he's getting everything he needs......the proof is in the pudding for me. I know my horse and have seen him at his worst. So many of the issues we had even before he got sick are gone, and he's a completely different horse than before. We went on a trail ride this past Sunday and some of my friends who haven't seen him since last year were blown away at how different he is not only physically but mentally as well.
Herbie, do you remember the admonishment from another post about only straight on shots of your horses from here on out? You have failed to comply. . . .
Chandler's Mom, guess I shouldn't post this one then, huh? Ok, ok, here ya go. Front shot for you. But I can't change my profile pic.....yet.
 (Ricky 3.jpg)
 (20150927_110232-1.jpg)
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 Ricky 3.jpg (88KB - 175 downloads)
20150927_110232-1.jpg (78KB - 164 downloads)
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | Three 4 Luck - 2015-10-01 8:30 AM Longneck - 2015-09-30 10:46 PM Does anyone know if the Redmond blocks are synthetic? I have one out and both horses lick on it from time to time. I think where minerals are concerned, there's no such thing as an actual synthetic mineral, it's just that the mined minerals are less bio-available than minerals eaten in your food. Supposedly. I keep loose minerals out and they eat the most when they have the least grass available.
Regarding minerals, I posted on the secondvet site yesterday. I will copy the link to the response I received. Hope this helps! Interesting information.
https://secondvet.com/index.php/forum/equine/106-synthetic-ingredients | |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | cavyrunsbarrels - 2015-09-29 11:40 PM
  This is fascinating. But also slightly disturbing. I've been so happy with with my Progressive Grass Balancer because my horses look FANTASTIC but now I'm rethinking everything...I mean they get whole oats, alfalfa, grass hay, beet pulp, Renew Gold, and for Cash an omega 3 supplement and msm/inflammation supplement in addition to it but it just has kinda just completed the puzzle and I'm not sure what would be a "natural" replacement? I know the best thing would be actually having a pasture but that's not possible at least until I make a few million in real estate and buy my own ranch....but that will take a while.
Before you switch feeds from a reputable feed company be willing to do your own research. Progressive Nutrition makes ALL their feeds and supplements based on peer-reviewed scientific and vet research. It's one of the things that makes them a cut above a lot of feed companies. Whereas any number of vitamins and nutrients in different forms are more or less bioavailable, it does not make them useless. Mined minerals are still 'natural' in that they come from nature, in this case the ground. Lice, ticks, bubonic plague, and uranium are also natural. The word itself does not guarantee a positive outcome. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | What makes a reputable feed company? That is a very personal decision. Progressive is owned by Cargill, correct? Some people feel Cargill to be reputable and some do not, so that varies with the individual.
Now.....Progressive boldy states, No Cereal Grains, such as corn, oats, or barley (like that is necessarily a good thing) for their "Senior Formula Pellet" and "Premium Performance 8 Pellet". But wait, in their ingredient list, there is Dried Grains with Solubles. So, I would ask the question, how reputable is that? BTW here is where DDGS comes from: Distillers dried grains with solubles (DDGS) is produced from the fuel ethanol industry and is available for inclusion in animal diets. So, it is made "from corn" at an ethenol factory making fuel. I don't want or trust that to be in my horse feed.
http://www.prognutrition.com/pn/products/horse-feeds/premium-senior-horse-feed-formula-pellet/index.jsp
In addition, many of their feeds have wheat middlings and soybean hulls as the first two ingredients, meaning that when you feed this feed, more than anything, the horse is eating wheat middlings and soybean hulls. When I look at the benefits listed no where does it tout either of these ingredients as a reason to choose the feed. To some that is not a big deal, to others it is. How many would go to the feedstore and buy a bag of wheat middlings or soybean hulls and feed it to your best horse? I would definately not.
Edited by Tdove 2015-10-01 2:40 PM
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Herbie - 2015-10-01 10:30 AM Three 4 Luck - 2015-10-01 8:30 AM Longneck - 2015-09-30 10:46 PM Does anyone know if the Redmond blocks are synthetic? I have one out and both horses lick on it from time to time. I think where minerals are concerned, there's no such thing as an actual synthetic mineral, it's just that the mined minerals are less bio-available than minerals eaten in your food. Supposedly. I keep loose minerals out and they eat the most when they have the least grass available.
I have found that when I feed high quality hay that my horses won't touch a mineral block and I've always assumed it's because they are getting what they need from their forage. | |
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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
Location: In The Land of Cotton | Nevertooold - 2015-10-01 2:50 PM Herbie - 2015-10-01 10:30 AM Three 4 Luck - 2015-10-01 8:30 AM Longneck - 2015-09-30 10:46 PM Does anyone know if the Redmond blocks are synthetic? I have one out and both horses lick on it from time to time. I think where minerals are concerned, there's no such thing as an actual synthetic mineral, it's just that the mined minerals are less bio-available than minerals eaten in your food. Supposedly. I keep loose minerals out and they eat the most when they have the least grass available.
It plays with your mind though sometimes, even though you know better. I have to tell myself, if they need it, they will utilize it, and walk away. I know my husband gets tired of me saying, "they look all right, don't they"?. I bet he hears it a thousand times. | |
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 Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12708
| My horses look the best ever these past two years since I replaced their bagged feed with high quality alfalfa. They do get #1 or less of bagged feed per day, and that's so I can throw a teaspoon of mineral at them. The alfalfa I use is so high quality that I feel it's best to help balance the calcium:phosphorus in their diet. I'd love to find a natural source to balance the calcium:phosphorus, but I bet it would still be in a form that required that #1 of bagged feed to feed it out.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | lonely va barrelxr - 2015-10-01 2:28 PM
My horses look the best ever these past two years since I replaced their bagged feed with high quality alfalfa. Â They do get #1 or less of bagged feed per day, and that's so I can throw a teaspoon of mineral at them. Â The alfalfa I use is so high quality that I feel it's best to help balance the calcium:phosphorus in their diet. Â I'd love to find a natural source to balance the calcium:phosphorus, but I bet it would still be in a form that required that #1 of bagged feed to feed it out. Â
 Â
I have your answer for a balancer.....oats and flax! | |
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