|
|
 Maine-iac
Posts: 3334
   
Location: Got Lobsta? | People can use guns, knives, hatchets, swords, vehicles - whatever it takes to get the job done. We (like many places) have problems with meth labs and bath salts in our area. These people break into your home, it will take more than a stern "get out" to have them not kill you. They are out of their minds and I am not good at handling sharp objects and can't run for crap to protect myself. So a gun puts me on level ground. Never had to use it, but I've had to show it and it saved my life and probably theirs too. I used to be totally against guns, UNTIL someone tried to hurt me. | |
| | |
The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | komet. - 2015-10-02 9:24 AM
svincent - 2015-10-02 11:14 AM
Forgot to add:
You are obviously uneducated about both guns AND American gun laws (I'm saying this in a friendly tone, computers just make everything b!tchy, but truly I am smiling and typing this in a friendly manner). We can't just walk into Walmart and buy an AK47.
What you are calling "assault" weapons are actually AUTOMATIC weapons, you pull the trigger once and bullets keep coming for as long as you hold. We can't buy these. The only access to automatic weapons that the public LEGALLY has is for automatic firearms manufactured before 1986. The firearms still in circulation are PROHIBITIVELY expensive for the public. They are in private, high-end collections, not being carried around on Joe American's hip. After 1986, automatic weapons have only been LEGALLY available to law enforcement. These are CLASS 3 weapons, and require EXTREMELY strict background checks to purchase. My husband has undergone this background check and I can tell you they DIG, and if they find even the TINIEST deviation from sanity or law-abiding citizen, you are denied; you must also then get approval from the Sheriff, and be cleared by the ATF. Class 3 weapons include suppressors, full auto, short barreled rifles, flame throwers, mortars, etc.
MANY firearms, are SEMI-automatic. You load it, and then you pull the trigger every time you want to shoot. As fast as you can pull, is how fast the gun will function. These are your double-action revolvers, 1911s, Glocks, etc. These differ from things like a pump shotgun that requires a pump action to load each round, or a single-action revolver that requires that you pull the hammer before pulling the trigger to fire each round.
The term "assault weapon" is a very VAGUE term that has different working definitions depending on the situation.
ETA: I emphasized LEGALLY in this because that is what matters. Criminals will always have illegal access to whatever they want. That is not the issue when talking about gun laws. Gun laws only applies to law-abiding citizens.
.... I would like to add to this.... PLEASE name one gun crime committed in the USA in the last 50 years that had a criminal with a true (automatic ) weapon.
That's a moot point, since even if the crime WERE committed with a full-auto weapon, it was more than likely obtained illegally: black market, theft, etc.
It would be hard to obtain that info without seeing the police reports because you can't rely on news reports as most journalists are as equally ignorant of guns and gun laws as the OP (again, said in a friendly manner) and use "assault" and "automatic" interchangeably. | |
| | |
 Popped
Posts: 20421
Location: LuluLand~along I64 Indiana | guns did not kill these inocennt people. a mentally ill person did. a person who didnt get the help they needed. a person who wanted to wipe out christianity or at least try. this person killed people.... this person would have tried to kill people with or without guns... Lets help the people not penalize the ones who dont use guns to kill people. | |
| | |
  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | LMS - 2015-10-02 12:21 PM Bibliafarm - 2015-10-02 11:05 AM LMS - 2015-10-02 11:50 AM I think the misconception is that many of the "outlaws" legally acquired the guns they're breaking the law with....not true. Are there many corrupt and disturbed people living here-yep.
I find it interesting that many "do not feel safe" without their guns, however, my husband and I have talked several times about someone breaking into our place-I'm not sure the gun swould be where we would head to.....I'm sorry for those that live in places where they don't feel safe every single day. Why is that?? There are so many "wayward souls" in our country....I'm not sure when it will ever end. I'm probably very naive but still feel very safe in my home and I sure hope no one takes that away from me.
OP gun owner ship is just like drinking, working etc. To be a good gun owner you need to be responsible, just like drinking, working and we all know people who can't even be responsible at work-how in the world would they be a good gun owner?? But that doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to own a gun......a lot less to do with laws and more to do with taking a real close, hard look at the mentality of our country. I feel safe in my home. I am in a great small town with horses and land. But if someone decided to break into my home.. I like to know I have a way to protect myself and Yes Id shoot them dead.
without a way to protect myself what would I do? get raped, beat up, or murdered..
I find it very sad that a gun is the go to item, that people don't have enough respect for each other.
More spankings (or a$$ whoopings) and more respect.
What a messed up world there is out there.
I'm sure my eyes will be opened soon enough, that warm fuzzy safe feeling I have about my state will probably change sooner than I want.
Edited by Bibliafarm 2015-10-02 11:33 AM
| |
| | |
The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | cheryl makofka - 2015-10-02 9:23 AM
I am also a Canadian and I haven't read up on the specifics of this shooting so I don't know of the individual had legal weapons or not.
Don't kid yourself in canada if someone wants a gun, they can find a gun or build a gun without a liscense.
I had the opposite reaction. I think schools should consider giving teachers guns and the appropriate training to use deadly force of someone opens fire.
I seen an article today about the man who received 7 shots when he charged the shooter. He is a hero and I cannot remember his name
Chris Mintz is his name.
He's doing well, recovering nicely, but will have to undergo A LOT of physical therapy and probably have to relearn how to walk. God bless him and his bravery.
Edited by svincent 2015-10-02 11:32 AM
| |
| | |
Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Bless him and praying he recovers | |
| | |
 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | Nateracer - 2015-10-02 11:27 AM I posted this to someone's FB this morning. I didn't feel like typing it all again.
No one in their RIGHT mind goes out with intention to kill someone. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. I live with around 10 guns, they haven't tried to kill me or anyone else. Gun control isn't the answer. Mental health support is what is needed. Mental health in the background check information would be helpful. Background checks are mandatory unless you have a permit to carry. Permits require a background check before they are issued. If you are mentally unstable, but have committed no crimes, you still have a clean background check. If you are a teen who committed underage crimes, those go away when you are 18, which is how old you have to be to get a permit. So it's NOT a GUN issue. It's a SYSTEM issue in which people who are unstable, but at the time are crime free, are able to get the guns. They could build bombs, they could stab people, they could hijack a plane, etc, but the SYSTEM doesn't tell the seller that they are mentally ill. The OTHER problem with mentally unstable people is they may not know they have mental health issues or won't admit they have issues and they won't see a doctor, so no record is there period. But it is NOT a GUN issue.
Amen, and sorry to the OP that I'm getting off track here but if someone could come up with a cure for mental illness that would outweigh a cure for cancer any day. | |
| | |
The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | Please pray for our community today. Following yesterday's tragedy in the neighboring town of Roseburg, all of our local schools (including our local community college) are sending students home after online chatter revealed ANOTHER possible threat.
ETA: Officers are on site at all schools protecting students as they head home.
Edited by svincent 2015-10-02 11:41 AM
| |
| | |
 Ima Non Controversial Girl
Posts: 4168
Location: where the wind blows | Thanks everyone for your replies and opinions and keeping it civil and respectful. I guess what I'm trying to understand then is why does this seem to happen so often in the United States versus other countries? Yes it does happen in other countries and has even happened here in Canada, but not near as often or as violently as the states. Why? I do realize compairing Canada to the U.S. is apples to oranges due to population numbers but even compared to other countries it seems to happen so much more in the states. Does it boil down to health care, education, social economic issues? How much does media play a roll in this with sensationalizing it?
If gun control is not the answer, what is. We as a whole humane race need to fix this.
| |
| | |
Ima Non Controversial Girl
Posts: 4168
Location: where the wind blows | komet. - 2015-10-02 10:02 AM OK let us start with gun control and gun free zones. This attack occurred in a "gun free zone".. So all law abiding citizens were sitting ducks for this guy.... NOW WAIT!! There were students there that HAD firerearms.... but to pull them out and use them would have made them just as culpable as the shooter. As a Canadian, you have always had us 'gun toting Americans' defending ... not only your southern border.... But our missiles protecting you from the USSR to the north!! So.... Do you have anything else you don't like about the USA? We retain our gun rights to protect us from people Like Obama... Sure we get crazy people once in a while... Like you don't?? Komet, I asked if we could please debate this topic civil. All other responses to date are that -civil. I have not felt attacked personally for my opposing view by the other posters. We may disgagree but they did not attack me, my views or my country. They disagreed and stated their views.
I personally felt attacked by your comment. And felt like my country was being attacked.
Edited by jkrm 2015-10-02 12:03 PM
| |
| | |
Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | How do we know it doesnt ? our media does make it more glamourous etc.. but we arent in those countries so it might be happening ..I catch glimpses of voilence there on aol alot.. I know alot are getting bombed. | |
| | |
The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | jkrm - 2015-10-02 9:59 AM
Thanks everyone for your replies and opinions and keeping it civil and respectful. Â I guess what I'm trying to understand then is why does this seem to happen so often in the United States versus other countries? Â Yes it does happen in other countries and has even happened here in Canada, but not near as often or as violently as the states. Â Why? Â I do realize compairing Canada to the U.S. is apples to oranges due to population numbers but even compared to other countries it seems to happen so much more in the states. Â Does it boil down to health care, education, social economic issues? Â How much does media play a roll in this with sensationalizing it?
If gun control is not the answer, what is. Â We as a whole humane race need to fix this.
Â
As a teacher, my opinion would be that this is a HUMANITY issue. The internet and social media has allowed bullying to go SO FAR BEYOND bloody noses and name calling. When I was in school, I was bullied mercilessly - but not when I was at home. I went home, I played with my horses, and I got a few hours away from the a$$holes of middle school. Today, kids can't ever get away from the bullies. They are at school and then they are at home via social media. Outsiders are made to feel invisible, while at the same time a focused target for VICIOUS bullying.
Parents tend to be very disconnected from their children, hugely in part to technology. Parents don't see the pain that their children are enduring, OR the pain that their children are inflicting. SO MANY parents are failing to parent and raise decent human beings. Homes across the country are broken, divorce is the NORMAL, children are growing up in single-parent households (NOT bashing single parents, just acknowledging that being one is A HUGE JOB for one person), and then seeking refuge online in a forum full of strangers. That is not healthy behavior for anybody, MUCH LESS for somebody with mental instabilities.
This is not a gun issue, this is a humanity issue - and I don't have the answer.
ETA: If you want "real" news and not the polarized media of Fox, MSNBC, CNN, etc. Watch BBC news. You will see HORRIFIC news, the US isn't the only place this happens - we just happen to have EXCELLENT media coverage.
Edited by svincent 2015-10-02 12:09 PM
| |
| | |
 Life Saver
Posts: 10477
Location: MT | The right to keep and bear arms is one of the founding principles of our country. That goes down and our whole country goes with it in my opinion.
If someone wants to go shoot a place up you can darn sure bet they will find a way whether they can purchase a gun legally or not. I'm sick of being pc and calling these mass murderers mentally ill, there are lots of mentally ill people who do not do these kinds of things...to me they are something completely different and have no concern for the wellbeing of others whatsoever.
Edited by ruggedchica 2015-10-02 12:14 PM
| |
| | |
Ima Non Controversial Girl
Posts: 4168
Location: where the wind blows | Bibliafarm - 2015-10-02 11:02 AM How do we know it doesnt ? our media does make it more glamourous etc.. but we arent in those countries so it might be happening ..I catch glimpses of voilence there on aol alot.. I know alot are getting bombed.
I did a search this morning on mass school shootings world wide.
Yes it does happen in other countries but in searching this morning it is far more previlant in the U.S.
Canada has had 16 school shootings dating back to 1894. The vast majority were only only resulted in one or two deaths. Once resulted in 15 deaths. Again I realize we do not have the same population.
Other countries around the world do have them. And yes they are typically broadcast on the news. Probably not as sensationalized as the U.S. ones but they are usually on the news. | |
| | |
Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | ruggedchica - 2015-10-02 1:11 PM The right to keep and bear arms is one of the founding principles of our country. That goes down and our whole country goes with it in my opinion.
If someone wants to go shoot a place up you can darn sure bet they will find a way whether they can purchase a gun legally or not. I'm sick of being pc and calling these mass murderers mentally ill, there are lots of mentally ill people who do not do these kinds of things...to me they are something completely different and have no concern for the wellbeing of others whatsoever.
Totally agree .. I dont think half are as Ill as tehy want you to believe.. They are monstors with NO compassion for Human life.. I dont believe the Mentally ill have the capacity to commit these henoius crimes.. sorry they usually are more compassionate then others.. they usually have huge hearts.. | |
| | |
Ima Non Controversial Girl
Posts: 4168
Location: where the wind blows | svincent - 2015-10-02 11:07 AM jkrm - 2015-10-02 9:59 AM Thanks everyone for your replies and opinions and keeping it civil and respectful. I guess what I'm trying to understand then is why does this seem to happen so often in the United States versus other countries? Yes it does happen in other countries and has even happened here in Canada, but not near as often or as violently as the states. Why? I do realize compairing Canada to the U.S. is apples to oranges due to population numbers but even compared to other countries it seems to happen so much more in the states. Does it boil down to health care, education, social economic issues? How much does media play a roll in this with sensationalizing it?
If gun control is not the answer, what is. We as a whole humane race need to fix this.
As a teacher, my opinion would be that this is a HUMANITY issue. The internet and social media has allowed bullying to go SO FAR BEYOND bloody noses and name calling. When I was in school, I was bullied mercilessly - but not when I was at home. I went home, I played with my horses, and I got a few hours away from the a$$holes of middle school. Today, kids can't ever get away from the bullies. They are at school and then they are at home via social media. Outsiders are made to feel invisible, while at the same time a focused target for VICIOUS bullying. Parents tend to be very disconnected from their children, hugely in part to technology. Parents don't see the pain that their children are enduring, OR the pain that their children are inflicting. SO MANY parents are failing to parent and raise decent human beings. Homes across the country are broken, divorce is the NORMAL, children are growing up in single-parent households (NOT bashing single parents, just acknowledging that being one is A HUGE JOB for one person ), and then seeking refuge online in a forum full of strangers. That is not healthy behavior for anybody, MUCH LESS for somebody with mental instabilities. This is not a gun issue, this is a humanity issue - and I don't have the answer. ETA: If you want "real" news and not the polarized media of Fox, MSNBC, CNN, etc. Watch BBC news. You will see HORRIFIC news, the US isn't the only place this happens - we just happen to have EXCELLENT media coverage.
This I agree with 100%. I think you hit the nail on the head with this post. Well said. Thanks for your thoughtfull view. | |
| | |
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 464
| I'm concealed carry now. I used to think only idiots, and gun freaks were concealed carry. The world is a crazy place, and I'm on the road with rodeo all hours of the night. It's just best to carry. It used to feel funny, now it doesn't. It feels normal, in fact I wouldn't dream of going anywhere but the court house, or an airplane ride with out it. People that shoot unarmed citizens are cowards. More people carrying=more cowards backing down. | |
| | |
The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | jkrm - 2015-10-02 10:16 AM
Bibliafarm - 2015-10-02 11:02 AM  How do we know it doesnt ? our media does make it more glamourous etc.. but we arent in those countries so it might be happening ..I catch glimpses of voilence there on aol alot.. I know alot are getting bombed.
I did a search this morning on mass school shootings world wide.Yes it does happen in other countries but in searching this morning it is far more previlant in the U.S. Canada has had 16 school shootings dating back to 1894. Â The vast majority were only only resulted in one or two deaths. Â Once resulted in 15 deaths. Â Again I realize we do not have the same population. Other countries around the world do have them. Â And yes they are typically broadcast on the news. Â Probably not as sensationalized as the U.S. ones but they are usually on the news. Â
I think the sensationalizing that the media takes part in is a HUGE reason for this. The formerly invisible loner transforms into the infamous mass murderer in minutes. Our sheriff is REFUSING to speak the shooter's name and urging everybody to do the same - for this very reason. I don't know of another single act that can make somebody so famous so quickly. | |
| | |
Extreme Veteran
Posts: 597
| LMS - 2015-10-02 10:21 AM
Bibliafarm - 2015-10-02 11:05 AM LMS - 2015-10-02 11:50 AM I think the misconception is that many of the "outlaws" legally acquired the guns they're breaking the law with....not true. Are there many corrupt and disturbed people living here-yep.Â
I find it interesting that many "do not feel safe" without their guns, however, my husband and I have talked several times about someone breaking into our place-I'm not sure the gun swould be where we would head to.....I'm sorry for those that live in places where they don't feel safe every single day. Why is that?? There are so many "wayward souls" in our country....I'm not sure when it will ever end. I'm probably very naive but still feel very safe in my home and I sure hope no one takes that away from me.Â
OP gun owner ship is just like drinking, working etc. To be a good gun owner you need to be responsible, just like drinking, working and we all know people who can't even be responsible at work-how in the world would they be a good gun owner?? But that doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to own a gun......a lot less to do with laws and more to do with taking a real close, hard look at the mentality of our country. I feel safe in my home. I am in a great small town with horses and land. But if someone decided to break into my home.. I like to know I have a way to protect myself and Yes Id shoot them dead.
without a way to protect myself what would I do? get raped, beat up, or murdered.. Â
I find it very sad that a gun is the go to item, that people don't have enough respect for each other.
Â
More spankings (or a$$ whoopings) and more respect.
What a messed up world there is out there.
I'm sure my eyes will be opened soon enough, that warm fuzzy safe feeling I have about my state will probably change sooner than I want.Â
I don't have any neighbors, so yelling would do me absolutely no good. Even in a neighborhood yelling probably isn't going to be very helpful, most people these days aren't friends or more than acquaintances with their neighbors, add in the fact that most people mind their own business...
What do you do if the assailant has a gun pointed at you? Good luck slapping or punching him without getting shot. My husband could probably overpower a person bent on harming us but what about me? I do not have the strength to overpower a man, what I do have is a lifetime of competitive shooting sports training and skill.
It is absolutely sad that people can't just behave and respect one another's lives and property. That's an age old problem though, there are bad people in this world, there always has been and there always will be. If a firearm is the means to keep my family safe from a threat then so be it.
I totally agree that if a child was taught respect be that by getting their little a$$es busted or just by someone actually showing them a good example the world would be a better place. But just as I stated earlier sometimes that's just not the case.sometimes good people do bad things and sometimes people are just born with their wires crossed.
I'd like to live in a world where there was no wrong, where we all just got along and did right.
To the OP, as citizens of this great country we have rights, our rights make the American people who we are, and the American people are what make this country great. We won't stand for our rights being infringed upon. Whether others like that or not, that's just what it is.
"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; …"
Samuel Adams
quoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789
To close my long winded rant I would like to pose a question of my own, why isn't this tragedy being billed as a hate crime? The little lunatic asked those that he murdered if they were Christians before he killed them.
| |
| | |
 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M1u0Byq5Qis
I think this will help. | |
| |
| |
Folks on-line