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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
  
| classicpotatochip - 2015-10-19 9:00 PM
cheryl makofka - 2015-10-19 6:33 PM
outrundaizy - 2015-10-19 1:15 PM
 So I know there are some people out there who simply won't inject their horses.. I'm curious, say you have a horse that is blowing off barrels, you take it to the vet, vet says horse needs hocks injected, xrays show signs of arthritis. You take the horse to 2 other vets both with the same outcome. How do you treat this? What are things you do without injections?
Why would you want to go against 3 vets opinion?
Problem with everything, is you only mask the issue, previcoxx, I was reading in a pharmacology text, (got a new one cause I am a nerd ) it says at higher doses previcoxx will inhibit both cox 1 and 2 therefore causing ulcers. The text said any NSAID at high doses will inhibit both cox 1-2 and cause ulcers. We are talking the high dose of normal, not insanely high.
Hocks, I actually don't inject, I fuse by surgical laser, then I never have to think of them again, I believe dr Honas does them for 2500, and he is the coauthor/researcher for the surgical laser fusion, so he would be the best in the states.
Dr Honnas doesn't do them. He refers them to Dr Hague in Edmond, Ok. I am currently 14 months out and waiting for soundness to return to one that I had fused. I don't regret doing it, I didn't have a horse either way, and he should eventually come sound again. Hypothetically and optimistically, best case scenario. But it isn't always a peaches and cream surgery. Everyone needs to go into that with their eyes open, for sure.
Thanks I knew the name started with an H.
I'm sorry you haven't got the soundness. Did they test for communication between the lower and upper joint, I can't remember the name. My vet was the lead author on the research, and he does this study before surgery, if they have communication, he will not do them.
Also did you inject with cortisone, bethamethasolone, or depo before fusing? If you did there is a very small chance you will get the positive outcome. My vet won't fuse any horses who have been injected with the above, as the later research showed the bones don't fuse.
This is why I don't inject, I will fuse. I have done 3 horses all with success.
As others have said, i do major prevention now so I don't have to fuse or inject. | |
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  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | grinandbareit - 2015-10-20 8:19 PM
RnRJack - 2015-10-20 12:04 PM
I have tennis elbow, excruciating tendon pain in my arm and elbow. I do hair all day and come home and clean stalls, cleaning stalls is excruciating BUT I have to do it, just like sore hocks are excruciating, the horse with a big heart HAs to do it. I bear through the pain to get my job done, and so do our horses.
The moral of this story is, I'm going to get a shot of cortisone later this week so I can do my job and not feel any pain.
I understand that we have to work to make a living... But if you had an opportunity to rest and rehab that injury, it can heal. Unfortunately, that may not be an option for you.
Back to the original question...
Our horses can benefit a great deal from some down time and rehab. I've often wondered why people take a horse that is sore, go to the vet and spend $500.00+ on x-rays and injections so that they can go to the $35.00 jackpot and win $150.00. That just doesn't make much sense to me.
I'm all about preventative medicine. I will spend extra on things to keep my horses fit and feeling good before I would consider injections. I haven't needed to inject a horse in 15 years and I've not had any issues, knock on wood. I'm certainly not against injections to manage an issue that can't be treated with time off and some rehab, but I believe that injections are far too common these days. They are treated as a cure-all by lots of folks. Vets do them because WE want SOMETHING done. A quick fix so to speak. Problem is... they aren't curing the problem, simply masking it.
 Best post I've read on here in a very long time. We'll said grinandbareit!!! | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 669
Location: Central Texas | Bibliafarm - 2015-10-19 8:17 PM
Nevertooold - 2015-10-19 8:10 PM I'm not against injections when they are needed. I'm against people giving their horses injections with out making sure what the problem is.
I had a horse blowing off of barrels and what he needed was an adjustment and massage body work.
Drives me nuts when people are injecting joints and calling it maintenance on young horses. JMO
I do know from personal experience, how well the joint injections can relive pain.
Â
   ditto
ditto! I know people who are injecting very very young horses already and they are basically only weekend warriors. Not my circus and not my monkeys but I sure hate to see them start that young injecting. That being said, I have injected but sparingly and only on older horses. I use Pentosan now days. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | I think most of the problem is that people always blame hocks first when it can be a number of things making the horse sore but they don't want to take the time or $ to find the source before injecting. I always x-Ray hocks before I inject or treat them to make sure that is indeed the cause and see if there is any other options first. Injections are my last option.
Yes I would give myself a shot of cortisone for my tennis elbow, and I've had one in my wrist that I broke twice as well, but that was also a last desperate option. | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 434
Location: Northwest Florida | grinandbareit - 2015-10-20 8:19 PM
RnRJack - 2015-10-20 12:04 PM
I have tennis elbow, excruciating tendon pain in my arm and elbow. I do hair all day and come home and clean stalls, cleaning stalls is excruciating BUT I have to do it, just like sore hocks are excruciating, the horse with a big heart HAs to do it. I bear through the pain to get my job done, and so do our horses.
The moral of this story is, I'm going to get a shot of cortisone later this week so I can do my job and not feel any pain.
I understand that we have to work to make a living... But if you had an opportunity to rest and rehab that injury, it can heal. Unfortunately, that may not be an option for you.
Back to the original question...
Our horses can benefit a great deal from some down time and rehab. I've often wondered why people take a horse that is sore, go to the vet and spend $500.00+ on x-rays and injections so that they can go to the $35.00 jackpot and win $150.00. That just doesn't make much sense to me.
I'm all about preventative medicine. I will spend extra on things to keep my horses fit and feeling good before I would consider injections. I haven't needed to inject a horse in 15 years and I've not had any issues, knock on wood. I'm certainly not against injections to manage an issue that can't be treated with time off and some rehab, but I believe that injections are far too common these days. They are treated as a cure-all by lots of folks. Vets do them because WE want SOMETHING done. A quick fix so to speak. Problem is... they aren't curing the problem, simply masking it.
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | I think People over inject anything they think is sore or needs it to mask issues.. as far as hocks fusing... I injected my boy about every 6 months hed be painfully sore in hocks after I did xrays and confirmed..my quarter horse..
with our jumpers and dressage horses its not as common.. I had only injected one gelding.. in all my years..kinda odd but we dont do it like barrel racers.. we do alot of other things but dont inject very often.. we train hard.. we use hind end.. we work them we give them time off if needed and do maintenance.. I am not sure why its so common in the barrel racing industry..and areas we would dont consider injecting but we do accupuncture alot and laser therapy and other alternatives....time off if sore etc.....I realize differant work, differant muscles and the fast turns etc are hard but our jumpers do it but longer periods ..Im not saying negative just have always thought about that.. we do warm up differantly and for long periods,, conditioning is a huge key factor.. but I know alot of the BRs condition to ..just something I have always thought about.. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 878
Location: "...way down south in the Everglades..." | grinandbareit - 2015-10-20 9:19 PM RnRJack - 2015-10-20 12:04 PM I have tennis elbow, excruciating tendon pain in my arm and elbow. I do hair all day and come home and clean stalls, cleaning stalls is excruciating BUT I have to do it, just like sore hocks are excruciating, the horse with a big heart HAs to do it. I bear through the pain to get my job done, and so do our horses. The moral of this story is, I'm going to get a shot of cortisone later this week so I can do my job and not feel any pain. I understand that we have to work to make a living... But if you had an opportunity to rest and rehab that injury, it can heal. Unfortunately, that may not be an option for you. Back to the original question... Our horses can benefit a great deal from some down time and rehab. I've often wondered why people take a horse that is sore, go to the vet and spend $500.00+ on x-rays and injections so that they can go to the $35.00 jackpot and win $150.00. That just doesn't make much sense to me. I'm all about preventative medicine. I will spend extra on things to keep my horses fit and feeling good before I would consider injections. I haven't needed to inject a horse in 15 years and I've not had any issues, knock on wood. I'm certainly not against injections to manage an issue that can't be treated with time off and some rehab, but I believe that injections are far too common these days. They are treated as a cure-all by lots of folks. Vets do them because WE want SOMETHING done. A quick fix so to speak. Problem is... they aren't curing the problem, simply masking it.
Totally agree with Grin and bare it... My take is if rest and other alternatives do not yeild results then injections may be warranted. But I will say that injections aren't always magical heal all solutions. I had a hunter pony and we injected his hocks several times, honestly didn't make much of a difference. I also know with myself that with my torn rotator cuff I didn't find any relief with the cortisone shots. I think the first shot helped for about a week, the second didn't seem to help at all. So I think it is relative to the person/horse as whether or not they respond. With my shoulder I found a combo of time, PT, and basic pain management was the most helpful. With the pony, we ended up giving him some much needed breaks and various supplements and therapies to assist. He ended up having a long career but we had to manage it carefully as to not over-do-it with his schedule. | |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | G&BI, do you do any type of preventative injections? Such as Adequan, Legend, NexHA, etc that aren't IA?
Just curious! | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 502
Location: United States | I believe it is critical to talk/build a relationship with a vet that practices continuing education. Also, take it upon your self to read studies, talk to your vet about studies and be open minded. I worked closely with a boarded sport medicine doctor (best time of my life BTW) and I am cautious of what I say because its not my position to speak I am not a doctor. I will share that I observed peoples interpretation of a horse that needs "maintenance help" is a lot of times different. What sally thinks helps her horse, may not help Susans horse or (example) Sally may get on Susan's horse and not think it needs joint maintenance, just training. Its often interpretation and a riders tolerance and experience level, horses fitness level, the footing... the list goes on and on. There are also MANY variables involved, and that is why it is important to read studies that were done on a large number of horses, not just ten. I inject my hard running and turning barrel horse JMO. Best money spent and it keeps my horse feeling super. | |
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 Go For It!
Location: Texas | Longneck - 2015-10-21 9:00 AM
G&BI, do you do any type of preventative injections? Such as Adequan, Legend, NexHA, etc that aren't IA?
Just curious!
I do give Adequan on a regular basis. Once a year, in the spring I will do a full series on both horses. I will give it weekly if I'm hauling pretty hard as well. If I am only going to the big stuff then I will give a shot 10 days out and again 3 days out. I also feed flax seed and oats with alfalfa hay and a probiotic. They really don't get anything in their diet that causes any inflammation because I don't feed any processed feed.
Another thing that I think makes a HUGE difference is having them really fit. Making sure their topline and hips, hamstrings, etc. are strong. Much like us, when we build up that core it helps to take the strain off the joints. When we use the muscles correctly and keep them healthy it makes it easier on their body as a whole, and they work more efficiently, which shows up on the clock.
I haven't always done things this way. Much of this I have learned the hard way. It's just like anything else, the more you learn the better you do, and the better you do, the more you want to learn.
I will say this too... If my horses happen to get a little sore, I give them time off. I have found, in my experience, that a bit of time off is often the best medicine you can prescribe.
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | grinandbareit - 2015-10-21 12:01 PM Longneck - 2015-10-21 9:00 AM G&BI, do you do any type of preventative injections? Such as Adequan, Legend, NexHA, etc that aren't IA? Just curious! I do give Adequan on a regular basis. Once a year, in the spring I will do a full series on both horses. I will give it weekly if I'm hauling pretty hard as well. If I am only going to the big stuff then I will give a shot 10 days out and again 3 days out. I also feed flax seed and oats with alfalfa hay and a probiotic. They really don't get anything in their diet that causes any inflammation because I don't feed any processed feed. Another thing that I think makes a HUGE difference is having them really fit. Making sure their topline and hips, hamstrings, etc. are strong. Much like us, when we build up that core it helps to take the strain off the joints. When we use the muscles correctly and keep them healthy it makes it easier on their body as a whole, and they work more efficiently, which shows up on the clock. I haven't always done things this way. Much of this I have learned the hard way. It's just like anything else, the more you learn the better you do, and the better you do, the more you want to learn. I will say this too... If my horses happen to get a little sore, I give them time off. I have found, in my experience, that a bit of time off is often the best medicine you can prescribe.
Bingo.... | |
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Industrial Srength Barrel Racer
Posts: 7268
| Speedy Buckeye Girl - 2015-10-21 8:31 AM
grinandbareit - 2015-10-20 9:19 PM RnRJack - 2015-10-20 12:04 PM I have tennis elbow, excruciating tendon pain in my arm and elbow. I do hair all day and come home and clean stalls, cleaning stalls is excruciating BUT I have to do it, just like sore hocks are excruciating, the horse with a big heart HAs to do it. I bear through the pain to get my job done, and so do our horses. The moral of this story is, I'm going to get a shot of cortisone later this week so I can do my job and not feel any pain. I understand that we have to work to make a living... But if you had an opportunity to rest and rehab that injury, it can heal. Unfortunately, that may not be an option for you. Back to the original question... Our horses can benefit a great deal from some down time and rehab. I've often wondered why people take a horse that is sore, go to the vet and spend $500.00+ on x-rays and injections so that they can go to the $35.00 jackpot and win $150.00. That just doesn't make much sense to me. I'm all about preventative medicine. I will spend extra on things to keep my horses fit and feeling good before I would consider injections. I haven't needed to inject a horse in 15 years and I've not had any issues, knock on wood. I'm certainly not against injections to manage an issue that can't be treated with time off and some rehab, but I believe that injections are far too common these days. They are treated as a cure-all by lots of folks. Vets do them because WE want SOMETHING done. A quick fix so to speak. Problem is... they aren't curing the problem, simply masking it.
I agree with both of you. I'm NOT a fan of injecting for various reasons. If that was my last resort, I would consider it but in 30 years of running barrel horses I've never injected yet - then AGAIN, I am NOT a die-hard, HAVE to enter every single race within a 500 mile radius either. | |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | grinandbareit - 2015-10-21 11:01 AM
Longneck - 2015-10-21 9:00 AM
G&BI, do you do any type of preventative injections? Such as Adequan, Legend, NexHA, etc that aren't IA?
Just curious!
I do give Adequan on a regular basis. Once a year, in the spring I will do a full series on both horses. I will give it weekly if I'm hauling pretty hard as well. If I am only going to the big stuff then I will give a shot 10 days out and again 3 days out. I also feed flax seed and oats with alfalfa hay and a probiotic. They really don't get anything in their diet that causes any inflammation because I don't feed any processed feed.
Another thing that I think makes a HUGE difference is having them really fit. Making sure their topline and hips, hamstrings, etc. are strong. Much like us, when we build up that core it helps to take the strain off the joints. When we use the muscles correctly and keep them healthy it makes it easier on their body as a whole, and they work more efficiently, which shows up on the clock.
I haven't always done things this way. Much of this I have learned the hard way. It's just like anything else, the more you learn the better you do, and the better you do, the more you want to learn.
I will say this too... If my horses happen to get a little sore, I give them time off. I have found, in my experience, that a bit of time off is often the best medicine you can prescribe.
Thank you, thank you! | |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | Bibliafarm - 2015-10-21 8:17 AM I think People over inject anything they think is sore or needs it to mask issues.. as far as hocks fusing... I injected my boy about every 6 months hed be painfully sore in hocks after I did xrays and confirmed..my quarter horse..
with our jumpers and dressage horses its not as common.. I had only injected one gelding.. in all my years..kinda odd but we dont do it like barrel racers.. we do alot of other things but dont inject very often.. we train hard.. we use hind end.. we work them we give them time off if needed and do maintenance.. I am not sure why its so common in the barrel racing industry..and areas we would dont consider injecting but we do accupuncture alot and laser therapy and other alternatives....time off if sore etc.....I realize differant work, differant muscles and the fast turns etc are hard but our jumpers do it but longer periods ..Im not saying negative just have always thought about that.. we do warm up differantly and for long periods,, conditioning is a huge key factor.. but I know alot of the BRs condition to ..just something I have always thought about.. I have noticed this too over the years. I rode with grand prix jumpers and dressage riders, top level hunters, all that and never heard of injections or half the therapies out there that are so common for barrel horses. Now I think it's great to do all you can for your horse, but my personal theory as to why it's not as common in the english world is starting the horses under saddle later and more focus on true engagement and straightness. Horses allowed to mature and using themselves properly aren't going to wear out their joints as fast. And I hate to say it but a lot of barrel racers I know don't focus on those things enough...
Edited by cavyrunsbarrels 2015-10-21 1:50 PM
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 Don't Wanna Make This Awkward
Posts: 3106
Location: Texas | cheryl makofka - 2015-10-20 11:05 PM classicpotatochip - 2015-10-19 9:00 PM cheryl makofka - 2015-10-19 6:33 PM outrundaizy - 2015-10-19 1:15 PM So I know there are some people out there who simply won't inject their horses.. I'm curious, say you have a horse that is blowing off barrels, you take it to the vet, vet says horse needs hocks injected, xrays show signs of arthritis. You take the horse to 2 other vets both with the same outcome. How do you treat this? What are things you do without injections? Why would you want to go against 3 vets opinion? Problem with everything, is you only mask the issue, previcoxx, I was reading in a pharmacology text, (got a new one cause I am a nerd ) it says at higher doses previcoxx will inhibit both cox 1 and 2 therefore causing ulcers. The text said any NSAID at high doses will inhibit both cox 1-2 and cause ulcers. We are talking the high dose of normal, not insanely high. Hocks, I actually don't inject, I fuse by surgical laser, then I never have to think of them again, I believe dr Honas does them for 2500, and he is the coauthor/researcher for the surgical laser fusion, so he would be the best in the states. Dr Honnas doesn't do them. He refers them to Dr Hague in Edmond, Ok. I am currently 14 months out and waiting for soundness to return to one that I had fused. I don't regret doing it, I didn't have a horse either way, and he should eventually come sound again. Hypothetically and optimistically, best case scenario. But it isn't always a peaches and cream surgery. Everyone needs to go into that with their eyes open, for sure. Thanks I knew the name started with an H. I'm sorry you haven't got the soundness. Did they test for communication between the lower and upper joint, I can't remember the name. My vet was the lead author on the research, and he does this study before surgery, if they have communication, he will not do them. Also did you inject with cortisone, bethamethasolone, or depo before fusing? If you did there is a very small chance you will get the positive outcome. My vet won't fuse any horses who have been injected with the above, as the later research showed the bones don't fuse. This is why I don't inject, I will fuse. I have done 3 horses all with success. As others have said, i do major prevention now so I don't have to fuse or inject.
Cheryl what age do you have your horses hocks fused? I would assume they have to be fully grown before fusing, but maybe not.
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Don't Wanna Make This Awkward
Posts: 3106
Location: Texas | cavyrunsbarrels - 2015-10-21 1:49 PM Bibliafarm - 2015-10-21 8:17 AM I think People over inject anything they think is sore or needs it to mask issues.. as far as hocks fusing... I injected my boy about every 6 months hed be painfully sore in hocks after I did xrays and confirmed..my quarter horse..
with our jumpers and dressage horses its not as common.. I had only injected one gelding.. in all my years..kinda odd but we dont do it like barrel racers.. we do alot of other things but dont inject very often.. we train hard.. we use hind end.. we work them we give them time off if needed and do maintenance.. I am not sure why its so common in the barrel racing industry..and areas we would dont consider injecting but we do accupuncture alot and laser therapy and other alternatives....time off if sore etc.....I realize differant work, differant muscles and the fast turns etc are hard but our jumpers do it but longer periods ..Im not saying negative just have always thought about that.. we do warm up differantly and for long periods,, conditioning is a huge key factor.. but I know alot of the BRs condition to ..just something I have always thought about.. I have noticed this too over the years. I rode with grand prix jumpers and dressage riders, top level hunters, all that and never heard of injections or half the therapies out there that are so common for barrel horses. Now I think it's great to do all you can for your horse, but my personal theory as to why it's not as common in the english world is starting the horses under saddle later and more focus on true engagement and straightness. Horses allowed to mature and using themselves properly aren't going to wear out their joints as fast. And I hate to say it but a lot of barrel racers I know don't focus on those things enough...
I do fully agree with this.. Prime age for barrel horse is usually around 12 which seems that way for every discipline, but with futurities raising the added money so much and becoming so popular people seem to be trying to get the most out of their horses by their 4 year old year. It's really a shame I think. When I rode english most of our horses were much older 12-18 usually, and I remember we had a mare that was 8 and that seemed so young. Now barrel racing it seems old. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | I give adequen also to my horses that I'm hauling and running a lot, also omeprozol and aloe Vera juice as a preventative (stomach smoother) does anyone feed MSM anymore? I give my two running mares MSM still, it's kind of an old school supplement huh? I used a holistic vet that doesn't believe in it, can anyone tell me why? | |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | RnRJack - 2015-10-21 10:47 PM I give adequen also to my horses that I'm hauling and running a lot, also omeprozol and aloe Vera juice as a preventative (stomach smoother) does anyone feed MSM anymore? I give my two running mares MSM still, it's kind of an old school supplement huh? I used a holistic vet that doesn't believe in it, can anyone tell me why?
I have used it
I dont know how it is long term on tummys but never had a issue with t. | |
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I AM being nice
Posts: 4396
Location: MD | I have to say, I feel as though many of the people who are saying that we don't see as many injections in the English disciplines were obviously not either in upper level programs, or "in the know" as to what was going on.
There really isn't so much of a difference in the level and/or types of maintenance that the English horses get versus the barrel horses. If you have actual experience in both arenas, you'll get what I'm saying. You can go to any local, schooling type hunter show and watch a bunch of lesson horses packing a kid around the Short Stirrup Hunter class who's stifles are obviously shot. Maybe they have a bit of an uneven stride in the trot while hacking. Those same type horses are being loped through with little Susie at your local barrel race, being whipped on in an attempt to win the 4D in the Youth. The difference is that in the Hunter world, little Susie's trainers say nothing about the unsoundness, nor bring up joint injections. In the barrel racing world, little Susie's mom, who has never ridden a horse is her trainer and she is sitting on the fence screaming at Susie to whip harder. Susie's mom then gets on an online forum, maybe posts a video and 1,000 "internet vets" say they think that Susie's horse Spot looks very sore and that she should have his hocks checked.
While Dressage horses are often dealt with quite differently, I can guarantee you that the top show Hunters, Jumpers and 3 Day Event horses become very good friends with their vets. Not only that, how many of you have ever been to say the Winter Equestrian Festival, in Wellington, FL. Take a walk through someone's barn (only if invited, of course) and take a peek in the feed room while you're at it. That big wipe board, that's the med list. I promise you that pretty much every horse in the barn is going to be on it. Those horses get more needles than most of the horses at the NFR. It only stands to reason. We'll say that while at a multi week show, a good Hunter is showing 3 or 4 days a week. That sucker is going to be on a longe line, cantering around for at least an hour and more likely two or three before each day of showing. That sort of wear and tear on one's body dictates that they are going to be sore.
I can also tell you from personal experience that the 3 Day Event crowd are worse than barrel racers when it comes to injections. Those horses are truly the iron horses of Equestrian sport. Not only do they almost have to be a Dressage horse, they have to be adept at jumping a 1.20 meter show jump course and they have to be fit enough to gallop a cross country course, up and down terrain. Until recently, the Dressage phase of an Event was something that one "Must do in order to get to the fun part". Due to this, many riders never truly learned how to do it well. The horses were flatted in a very false manner, their heads pulled to their chests, completely lacking in engagement and very hollow through their spine. This led to the fact that many were having their SI injected. There was a time when in that world, you heard people telling others to get their horses SI done as frequently as we hear barrel racers discussing hocks.
I do believe that too many people are not educated enough about joint injections. I also feel as though even fewer are properly educated about good quality leg care and conditioning. Why do leg work during the week to keep one sound when they can just go get their horse injected every six months? Most of those folks have no idea what their horse is being injected with, don't know what the joint looked like, nor know if the joint was dry, full of fluid, if the fluid was gritty/bloody. All they know is that their horse got his hocks done so he should win the barrel race this weekend. This again, I attribute to a lack of education. It scares me that even quite a few professionals, who are out winning big stuff, have no clue what to do for a horse beyond take it to the vet and say "It's not turning. Fix it!".
All of this being said, I will be the first to inject one if they need it. I don't play games with my horse's joint health. If one tells me that they're having an issue, it gets addressed. If injecting it along with the other care that it receives is the best route to take at the time, that's what I'll do. If one really needs time off, I'll give them as much time as they need. I think that people overreact to young horses being injected . A lot of people tend to believe that once you inject, you will always have to inject. I feel that this was almost proven to be true for a long time. In my mind, the reason for that is because a horse with an issue would be left and run on that bad joint until it got to the point that it crippled up. The owner finally took it to the vet, the horse was injected, came sound and started performing again. Six months later, the horse started exhibiting signs of pain again. Back to the vet, new set of injections and viola! The thing that people must realize is that due to their negligence in not having addressed the issue sooner, irreparable damage was done. As a result, yes your horse does now require bi-annual injections. This is the fault of the negligent owner, not the injection.
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| outrundaizy - 2015-10-21 1:59 PM
cheryl makofka - 2015-10-20 11:05 PM classicpotatochip - 2015-10-19 9:00 PM cheryl makofka - 2015-10-19 6:33 PM outrundaizy - 2015-10-19 1:15 PM Â So I know there are some people out there who simply won't inject their horses.. I'm curious, say you have a horse that is blowing off barrels, you take it to the vet, vet says horse needs hocks injected, xrays show signs of arthritis. You take the horse to 2 other vets both with the same outcome. How do you treat this? What are things you do without injections? Why would you want to go against 3 vets opinion? Problem with everything, is you only mask the issue, previcoxx, I was reading in a pharmacology text, (got a new one cause I am a nerd ) it says at higher doses previcoxx will inhibit both cox 1 and 2 therefore causing ulcers. The text said any NSAID at high doses will inhibit both cox 1-2 and cause ulcers. We are talking the high dose of normal, not insanely high. Hocks, I actually don't inject, I fuse by surgical laser, then I never have to think of them again, I believe dr Honas does them for 2500, and he is the coauthor/researcher for the surgical laser fusion, so he would be the best in the states. Dr Honnas doesn't do them. He refers them to Dr Hague in Edmond, Ok. I am currently 14 months out and waiting for soundness to return to one that I had fused. I don't regret doing it, I didn't have a horse either way, and he should eventually come sound again. Hypothetically and optimistically, best case scenario. But it isn't always a peaches and cream surgery. Everyone needs to go into that with their eyes open, for sure. Thanks I knew the name started with an H. I'm sorry you haven't got the soundness. Did they test for communication between the lower and upper joint, I can't remember the name. My vet was the lead author on the research, and he does this study before surgery, if they have communication, he will not do them. Also did you inject with cortisone, bethamethasolone, or depo before fusing? If you did there is a very small chance you will get the positive outcome. My vet won't fuse any horses who have been injected with the above, as the later research showed the bones don't fuse. This is why I don't inject, I will fuse. I have done 3 horses all with success. As others have said, i do major prevention now so I don't have to fuse or inject. Â
One was done a 8
The other 2 were done at 6
The 8 yr olds hocks were brutal, he had bone spurs hooking the tendon, still don't know how he was running before. He needed to be fused and the spurs burned off. He was a 1d horse on certain pens before, after his times increased by half a second.
One 6 yr old quit turning his first, flexion tests showed hocks, xrays showed he shattered one of the joints, to sped up the healing process he was done, and no he never had any heat swelling in the hock
The last 6 yr old wasn't broke till 3 rode hardly at all till 6 sent him to a trainer who noticed something wasn't right, took him to the vet xrays show pretty bad arthritis that could be maintained with injections but I opted for fusion. Vets theory on this one was he was malnourished under the age of two to cause the early deterioration.
I don't fuse unless I have to, and currently my horses have showed no symptoms of hock pain. I have them on lubrysin during their riding months, and they get a 3 month vacation each year. They also don't do barrel work till they are fit.
Edited by cheryl makofka 2015-10-21 11:31 PM
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