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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
  
Location: North Dakota | So I went to the smartpak website.....I feed 5 head of horses for less than you feed 1 horse ANY type of flax supplement they offer. It is not hard to get "around here" I'm from where you are-if you want whole flax seed Hubbard sells that too...by the bag for less than $25 for 50 pounds. You could throw most of the bag away and still be cheaper than smartpak and know what you're getting. Whole seed or natural is always better plus, you are most likely supporting a local ND farmer.
And with that folks.....I am done here. I hope the OP finds the right combination of what she's looking for....I always find myself in a struggle with doing what is right. |
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 Captain Of The Prude Broom
Posts: 2153
Location: cincinnati, oh | I thought the Renew Gold already had the needed amount of Flax in it? Why add additional Flax if you are feeding Renew Gold? |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | Most people recommend 4 to 8 ounces of flax daily. I prefer to feed around the 8 ounce mark, which is 1/2 lb.
Edited by Tdove 2015-10-20 11:32 AM
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | skeeter7 - 2015-10-20 10:32 AM I thought the Renew Gold already had the needed amount of Flax in it? Why add additional Flax if you are feeding Renew Gold?
It has flax but per the bag, it is still higher in omega 6's because rice bran is very high in omega 6 and it contains more rice bran than flax. If your horse is out on quality fresh pasture all day then they should be getting all the omega 3's they need from the grass. BUT if your horse is fed hay, especially hay that's been stored for a few months, your horse probably isn't getting all the omega 3's they need, and flax is a good way to balance that out. My horse lives in a dirt pen with no grazing, just grass hay, so he needs flax to balance his diet. I can see the difference too! |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | LMS - 2015-10-20 10:30 AM So I went to the smartpak website.....I feed 5 head of horses for less than you feed 1 horse ANY type of flax supplement they offer. It is not hard to get "around here" I'm from where you are-if you want whole flax seed Hubbard sells that too...by the bag for less than $25 for 50 pounds. You could throw most of the bag away and still be cheaper than smartpak and know what you're getting. Whole seed or natural is always better plus, you are most likely supporting a local ND farmer. And with that folks.....I am done here. I hope the OP finds the right combination of what she's looking for....I always find myself in a struggle with doing what is right.
Okaaaay... I called Hubbard twice and they told me they do not carry whole flax. And will not feed rolled because it will lose all benefits and/or go rancid before I can finish it. I've googled the matter to death and called a bunch of places and they all tell me they don't stock whole flax. The only way was to have 25lb boxes of it shipped to me, and then I have to get baggies and measure out individual daily amounts for my barn to feed. If your program works for you that's swell, but for me, it's a lot easier to have it added to my Smartpaks so that's what I will continue to do.
ETA-I found the place I got it from. $65 for 25lbs. Another place was $114 for 50lbs. Another was $98.50+shipping for 54lbs. And I called everywhere that was recommended to me by people and google and didn't find any whole flax locally.
Edited by cavyrunsbarrels 2015-10-21 8:54 AM
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 The BHW Book Worm
Posts: 1768
| I opted to increase flax because I won't have pasture for the winter. I looked up whole flax before I purchased and they can absorb it and boy is it a pretty bag of flax. |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | The Omega 6 / Omega 3 relationship is one of the most misunderstood issues today in horse nutrition. The search for more Omega 3 as inflammation control is a direct result of human studies that showed value. There has been very little actual horse related work done on this, but most think there may be a direct effect. The main difference between the horse and human relationship of Omega 3s is the diet. A horse can get a lot of Omega 3 in its roughage. Even in most good quality cured hay, there is a significant amount. This is not present in the human diet, where Omega 3s are cooked out of most of its natural sources, and supplementing Omega 3 makes sense. Adding a significant Omega 3 source to a horses diet that feeds a significant amount of grain makes sense as those types of feeds are very high in Omega 6s. There may also be value to adding more Omega 3 to a Renew Gold diet if the hay or roughage quality is low. With good pasture or good quality hay, however, it should not be necessary. As to Omega 6, this is an essential fatty acid also. You do not want to overwhelm this with too much Omega 3. One of the things that Omega 6 does is generate inflammation for acute injury. A certain amount of this type of inflammation increases blood flow and will initiate healing. This is different than chronic inflammation from something like arthritic changes. You want to be able to generate acute inflammation. So, if you are feeding grain based feed with poor quality hay you may well benefit from added Omega 3. If your hay quality or pasture is good, there should be all the Omega 3 in that diet that your horse can use. A change in bloom or condition from adding more flax is a direct result of added calories, not the Omega 3 that is present in the Flax.
Edited by winwillows 2015-10-20 11:53 AM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | Win, when feeding 1-2 lbs of Renew Gold, as recommended, how many ounces of flax would one be feeding? Thanks |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | Tdove - 2015-10-20 12:18 PM
Win, when feeding 1-2 lbs of Renew Gold, as recommended, how many ounces of flax would one be feeding? Thanks
Between 3 and 4 oz. I like this number with quality roughage and it works great in combination with the other ingredient profiles that we blend it with. I have no issue with people adding more flax if they like. But, the result that you see from that is from the added calories not a change in the Omega 6/ Omega 3 ratio. That was the point I was trying to make.
Edited by winwillows 2015-10-20 1:00 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 396
| 1 lb whole oats
1/2 cup whole flax (my feed mill sells it for $39 for 50 lb sack)
Alfalfa and grass hay
salt block
ranchway 1011 block ( I like the block because I notice at different times they lick it more.) |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | winwillows - 2015-10-20 11:50 AM The Omega 6 / Omega 3 relationship is one of the most misunderstood issues today in horse nutrition. The search for more Omega 3 as inflammation control is a direct result of human studies that showed value. There has been very little actual horse related work done on this, but most think there may be a direct effect. The main difference between the horse and human relationship of Omega 3s is the diet. A horse can get a lot of Omega 3 in its roughage. Even in most good quality cured hay, there is a significant amount. This is not present in the human diet, where Omega 3s are cooked out of most of its natural sources, and supplementing Omega 3 makes sense. Adding a significant Omega 3 source to a horses diet that feeds a significant amount of grain makes sense as those types of feeds are very high in Omega 6s. There may also be value to adding more Omega 3 to a Renew Gold diet if the hay or roughage quality is low. With good pasture or good quality hay, however, it should not be necessary. As to Omega 6, this is an essential fatty acid also. You do not want to overwhelm this with too much Omega 3. One of the things that Omega 6 does is generate inflammation for acute injury. A certain amount of this type of inflammation increases blood flow and will initiate healing. This is different than chronic inflammation from something like arthritic changes. You want to be able to generate acute inflammation. So, if you are feeding grain based feed with poor quality hay you may well benefit from added Omega 3. If your hay quality or pasture is good, there should be all the Omega 3 in that diet that your horse can use. A change in bloom or condition from adding more flax is a direct result of added calories, not the Omega 3 that is present in the Flax. And my hay is sh!t so...that's where my use of flax comes in. If I could feed hay that wasn't supplied by my boarding barn, I would.
Edited by cavyrunsbarrels 2015-10-20 6:47 PM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| cavyrunsbarrels - 2015-10-20 11:31 AM
LMS - 2015-10-20 10:30 AM So I went to the smartpak website.....I feed 5 head of horses for less than you feed 1 horse ANY type of flax supplement they offer. It is not hard to get "around here" I'm from where you are-if you want whole flax seed Hubbard sells that too...by the bag for less than $25 for 50 pounds. You could throw most of the bag away and still be cheaper than smartpak and know what you're getting. Whole seed or natural is always better plus, you are most likely supporting a local ND farmer. And with that folks.....I am done here. I hope the OP finds the right combination of what she's looking for....I always find myself in a struggle with doing what is right. Okaaaay... I called Hubbard twice and they told me they do not carry whole flax. And will not feed rolled because it will lose all benefits and/or go rancid before I can finish it. I've googled the matter to death and called a bunch of places and they all tell me they don't stock whole flax. The only way was to have 25lb boxes of it shipped to me, and then I have to get baggies and measure out individual daily amounts for my barn to feed. If your program works for you that's swell, but for me, it's a lot easier to have it added to my Smartpaks so that's what I will continue to do.
Go to a seed plant |
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 Warrior Mom
Posts: 4400
| I asked my local feed store yesterday if they had whole flax .. they will order for me on a as needed basis. 50lb for $41.00 So I haven't ever fed whole flax before. I'm feeding 3 horses. They are on poor pasture and less than mediocre hay in the form of a roundbale so I am wanting to fill in some gaps in their nutrition. How can you tell once the flax has gone bad? |
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | It will smell bad-sort of like stale popcorn or peanut butter......if you have the storage capability put a large zip bag full or two in your deep freeze. It will keep that way for a long time. |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| BS Hauler - 2015-10-19 5:08 PM
1,200 # whole oats
300# cracked corn
200# High protein Soybean meal
100 # Molassis
100 # Alfalfa pellets
50# Bran
20# mineral
15# Vitamins
32# Soy oil ( fat )
100# Beet shreds
20# trace mineral salt
6# feeding lime ( same as us eating a Tums )
They are on a 50 % grass and 50 % alfalfa pasture 24/7
They get 2.5 # per feeding 2 times a day.
This is $ 410.00 a ton bagged at my local feed mill.
You could tweek the ingrediance if you want.
Do you happen to know the analysis of this feed mixture?
I have a custom mix with my store that I love but I am always looking at others |
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Expert
Posts: 1314
Location: North Central Iowa Land of white frozen grass | No I don't.
I used a feed recipie that I got from Iowa State University and one that the feed mill mixes up for their horse feed and I tweeked it for my own mix. I took some of the corn out of the mix that ISU had and added some of the other ingrediants to come back to a 2,000# mix.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | want2chase3 - 2015-10-23 7:44 AM
I asked my local feed store yesterday if they had whole flax .. they will order for me on a as needed basis. 50lb for $41.00 So I haven't ever fed whole flax before. I'm feeding 3 horses. They are on poor pasture and less than mediocre hay in the form of a roundbale so I am wanting to fill in some gaps in their nutrition. How can you tell once the flax has gone bad?
Whole flax will stay good for a long time, most likely about a year. Feeding 3 horses 4-8 ounces daily, you should go through it in about 1-2 months. If you are interested, I believe Barfield Hay has Omnis in stock now as well.
Edited by Tdove 2015-10-23 10:15 AM
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Warrior Mom
Posts: 4400
| Tdove - 2015-10-23 10:07 AM
want2chase3 - 2015-10-23 7:44 AM
I asked my local feed store yesterday if they had whole flax .. they will order for me on a as needed basis. 50lb for $41.00 So I haven't ever fed whole flax before. I'm feeding 3 horses. They are on poor pasture and less than mediocre hay in the form of a roundbale so I am wanting to fill in some gaps in their nutrition. How can you tell once the flax has gone bad?
Whole flax will stay good for a long time, most likely about a year. Feeding 3 horses 4-8 ounces daily, you should go through it in about 1-2 months. If you are interested, I believe Barfield Hay has Omnis in stock now as well.
Oh good on the cubes! I got a few bags from them when I first got here but he wasn't absolutely sure he'd keep it in stock or not. Good to know! I'm waiting till my barn gets built to get them back on the cubes because they tend to bolt their feed being turned out all together and my choke prone horse is the absolute worst. When I had them in nm they had individual stalls with large feeders so he really had no issues with the cubes. But yes I know those cubes would fit perfectly into my current feed program. |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| BS Hauler - 2015-10-23 9:55 AM
No I don't.
I used a feed recipie that I got from Iowa State University and one that the feed mill mixes up for their horse feed and I tweeked it for my own mix. I took some of the corn out of the mix that ISU had and added some of the other ingrediants to come back to a 2,000# mix.
So my program here at the feed store doesn't take into consideration beet pulp and I cant add your vitamins to it but your mix looks like a 13.5% protein, 5.5% fat. Incase you were wondering :) |
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Expert
Posts: 1314
Location: North Central Iowa Land of white frozen grass | Thank you for the reply. Do you think that I should tweek it differantly. I am always up for more knowledge. |
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