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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 560
 
Location: Where the buffalo roam | I have a friend who purchased a horse (paid the seller in full at pick-up) after asking all the right questions, reviewing videos and trying her out. All was good for 7-10 days and suddenly the horse couldn't be caught. 3 days later she caught her and just brushed her and gave her a little treat and put her back away. Caught her the next day, saddled her and when she went to step into the saddle the horse blew, stepped on her and bucked all the way don the hill until she stepped on her reins and scared herself. Since then she cannot be caught without being roped, has kicked at people and is like a totally different horse. My friend immediately called the seller and asked if she would take her back and was told they would pay her a not evne a quarter of what was paid them. She was willing to take a reduced refund, but that is ridiculous! My friend has rehabbed a horse that had been abused and ended up being a very good barrel horse and is very patient with her horses. She will no longer even get near this horse because she is scared she will get hurt. Everyone that has heard this story suspects a long acting drug (i.e. fluphenazine), but have no proof. What this story is saying, is that trial periods should be allowed and a seller should have the honesty to take a horse back that is not working out - maybe at a reasonably reduced amount, but not what she was offered. Dog breeders take dogs back rather than have them somewhere they are no longer wanted and if you buy a big ticket item you have time to return it. Yes, agreements should be signed and insurance required if the horse isn't paid for, but I think buyers should have some rights also. I know if I ever buy another horse, I'll be doing a background check on the seller after this incident. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
 
| This why when I have a prepurchase exam I have the vet draw blood in case something like this happens. When I bought my gelding, I researched the seller and found she had a great reputation for honesty. But when I did the PPE the vet recommended drawing blood just in case. He said he could keep the blood for a certain amount of time and if the horse started acting crazy we would be able to rule out drugs for a cause. Of course, I never needed to test the blood. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 967
Location: Northern California | No trial period! Before you buy you MUST get blood work and Xrays and even then there is no gaurantee. It sounds like your friend got a horse above their skill level and they either need a trainer or a new horse. You can buy a horse off the internet and it turns out to be perfect or you can know a horse for a year - finally get a chance to buy it and when you get it home you two just don't get along.
There are too many things that can go wrong when the horse is in care with the potential buyer. Injury, bad habbits, poor horsemanship, you might as well lease them out. Not to mention in the mean time, someone who IS a good match may not get a chance or end up with a different horse. You are putting the horse in a new environment with a new owner and sure the horse may have been drugged OR it is acting out / finding it's rank in the herd and seeing if it can be dominant over any new people or animals which is very normal. Go try the horse out, come back when the vet is out to see it again, get blood work and Xrays. You can't expect a buyer to hold the horse for you, ever, trial period or payment etc. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Southtxponygirl - 2015-12-29 10:37 AM oija - 2015-12-29 10:32 AM If they cant come up with 1000 over five weeks how are they going to pay necessary vet bills?? Ditto..
I'll be getting my horse back today..
Yep, get your horse. They can't afford it or they are willing to jerk you around, neither is good. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 560
Location: Where the buffalo roam | I know why I very rarely post on this site! Some of the people are pit vipers (which is what my husband calls all barrel racers! My friend has been riding and barrel racing since she was young. She did everything correctly and she tried the horse out in person before buying her. Her only error was in not pulling blood. This horse was NOT above her experience level from all information available. I have bought and sold horses and have been allowed and have allowed a 2 week trial period with insurance and have never had a problem. You're saying the seller has all the rights and the buyer has none? This horse was not in the five figures and not a finished barrel horse so she (wrongly) assumed drugs would not be an issue. After 2 weeks then I do consider the sale complete, but will negotiate if I know the buyer to allow maybe one more week. I'd rather my horse come back to me rather than be someplace that doesn't fit.I'm not saying a buyer can take advantage of the seller just saying there are rights on both sides. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 999
Location: Sunny So Cal | You are not being unreasonable at all! 5 weeks is WAYYYY too long! I usually know within 2 rides if the horse is going to work or not. And I'm worried if they can't pay you how will they be able to pay for the expenses of the horse, like if they get a vet bill or even monthly upkeep. Good Luck, but I would go pick up your horse and find a some one better. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Nobody - 2015-12-29 12:41 PM I know why I very rarely post on this site! Some of the people are pit vipers (which is what my husband calls all barrel racers! My friend has been riding and barrel racing since she was young. She did everything correctly and she tried the horse out in person before buying her. Her only error was in not pulling blood. This horse was NOT above her experience level from all information available. I have bought and sold horses and have been allowed and have allowed a 2 week trial period with insurance and have never had a problem. You're saying the seller has all the rights and the buyer has none? This horse was not in the five figures and not a finished barrel horse so she (wrongly) assumed drugs would not be an issue. After 2 weeks then I do consider the sale complete, but will negotiate if I know the buyer to allow maybe one more week. I'd rather my horse come back to me rather than be someplace that doesn't fit.I'm not saying a buyer can take advantage of the seller just saying there are rights on both sides.
What!!!!!
Sorry this happen to your friend, but this thread is not about a seller getting to someone.
And its Buyer Beware, got to do your homework befor you dish out good money for any horse. |
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Nobody - 2015-12-29 12:41 PM I know why I very rarely post on this site! Some of the people are pit vipers (which is what my husband calls all barrel racers! My friend has been riding and barrel racing since she was young. She did everything correctly and she tried the horse out in person before buying her. Her only error was in not pulling blood. This horse was NOT above her experience level from all information available. I have bought and sold horses and have been allowed and have allowed a 2 week trial period with insurance and have never had a problem. You're saying the seller has all the rights and the buyer has none? This horse was not in the five figures and not a finished barrel horse so she (wrongly) assumed drugs would not be an issue. After 2 weeks then I do consider the sale complete, but will negotiate if I know the buyer to allow maybe one more week. I'd rather my horse come back to me rather than be someplace that doesn't fit.I'm not saying a buyer can take advantage of the seller just saying there are rights on both sides.
No one is saying the buyer has no rights. The buyer has had the horse 5 weeks, plenty of time to adequately try the horse and pay for him. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Nobody - 2015-12-29 12:41 PM I know why I very rarely post on this site! Some of the people are pit vipers (which is what my husband calls all barrel racers! My friend has been riding and barrel racing since she was young. She did everything correctly and she tried the horse out in person before buying her. Her only error was in not pulling blood. This horse was NOT above her experience level from all information available. I have bought and sold horses and have been allowed and have allowed a 2 week trial period with insurance and have never had a problem. You're saying the seller has all the rights and the buyer has none? This horse was not in the five figures and not a finished barrel horse so she (wrongly) assumed drugs would not be an issue. After 2 weeks then I do consider the sale complete, but will negotiate if I know the buyer to allow maybe one more week. I'd rather my horse come back to me rather than be someplace that doesn't fit.I'm not saying a buyer can take advantage of the seller just saying there are rights on both sides.
I'm a barrel racer as so many are on here and WE are NOT pit vipers. Dont be coming on here calling us names.  |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 434
Location: Northwest Florida | Southtxponygirl - 2015-12-29 1:17 PM
Nobody - 2015-12-29 12:41 PM I know why I very rarely post on this site! Some of the people are pit vipers (which is what my husband calls all barrel racers! My friend has been riding and barrel racing since she was young. She did everything correctly and she tried the horse out in person before buying her. Her only error was in not pulling blood. This horse was NOT above her experience level from all information available. I have bought and sold horses and have been allowed and have allowed a 2 week trial period with insurance and have never had a problem. You're saying the seller has all the rights and the buyer has none? This horse was not in the five figures and not a finished barrel horse so she (wrongly) assumed drugs would not be an issue.  After 2 weeks then I do consider the sale complete, but will negotiate if I know the buyer to allow maybe one more week. I'd rather my horse come back to me rather than be someplace that doesn't fit.I'm not saying a buyer can take advantage of the seller just saying there are rights on both sides.
I'm a barrel racer as so many are on here and WE are NOT pit vipers. Dont be coming on here calling us names. Â
My thoughts exactly! Did she just call barrel racers a derogatory term on barrel horse WORLD?? |
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 Veteran
Posts: 189
| Well we will see how this goes down.. sending a text now...
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 509
| When i sell something i price it at its value if it needs maintenance i disclose i, i give no refunds i have had one lady mad she sold the horse the next girl did well with it. I encourage a vet check and tell them to ride it multiple times. I have found a majority of people are all about the dollar so i have learned to be super picky vet them and trust your gut |
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  Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Nobody - 2015-12-29 9:32 AM
I have a friend who purchased a horse (paid the seller in full at pick-up) after asking all the right questions, reviewing videos and trying her out. All was good for 7-10 days and suddenly the horse couldn't be caught. 3 days later she caught her and just brushed her and gave her a little treat and put her back away. Caught her the next day, saddled her and when she went to step into the saddle the horse blew, stepped on her and bucked all the way don the hill until she stepped on her reins and scared herself. Since then she cannot be caught without being roped, has kicked at people and is like a totally different horse. My friend immediately called the seller and asked if she would take her back and was told they would pay her a not evne a quarter of what was paid them. She was willing to take a reduced refund, but that is ridiculous! My friend has rehabbed a horse that had been abused and ended up being a very good barrel horse and is very patient with her horses. She will no longer even get near this horse because she is scared she will get hurt. Everyone that has heard this story suspects a long acting drug (i.e. fluphenazine), but have no proof. What this story is saying, is that trial periods should be allowed and a seller should have the honesty to take a horse back that is not working out - maybe at a reasonably reduced amount, but not what she was offered. Dog breeders take dogs back rather than have them somewhere they are no longer wanted and if you buy a big ticket item you have time to return it. Yes, agreements should be signed and insurance required if the horse isn't paid for, but I think buyers should have some rights also. I know if I ever buy another horse, I'll be doing a background check on the seller after this incident.
This is what pre-purchase exams are for. Blood draw in your PP and have a contract stating the recourse if something goes wrong within xx number of days. It's pretty cut and dried if they refuse to abide by the terms of the contract. It's NOT so cut and dried when horses change owners from someone that knows how to work with them to someone without a clue. Horses come untrained really fast when a newby gets them. |
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 Witty Enough
Posts: 2954
Location: CTX | rodeomom3 - 2015-12-29 12:33 PM Southtxponygirl - 2015-12-29 10:37 AM oija - 2015-12-29 10:32 AM If they cant come up with 1000 over five weeks how are they going to pay necessary vet bills?? Ditto..
I'll be getting my horse back today..
Agree with everything. Go get the horse.
I don't do a trail period, not as seller and I don't expect is at a buyer either, but I do try to do my homework on the horse and the seller.... Anything can happen in a matter of minutes. |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| Nobody - 2015-12-29 12:41 PM
I know why I very rarely post on this site! Some of the people are pit vipers (which is what my husband calls all barrel racers! My friend has been riding and barrel racing since she was young. She did everything correctly and she tried the horse out in person before buying her. Her only error was in not pulling blood. This horse was NOT above her experience level from all information available. I have bought and sold horses and have been allowed and have allowed a 2 week trial period with insurance and have never had a problem. You're saying the seller has all the rights and the buyer has none? This horse was not in the five figures and not a finished barrel horse so she (wrongly) assumed drugs would not be an issue.  After 2 weeks then I do consider the sale complete, but will negotiate if I know the buyer to allow maybe one more week. I'd rather my horse come back to me rather than be someplace that doesn't fit.I'm not saying a buyer can take advantage of the seller just saying there are rights on both sides.
Just because people disagree with you doesnt constitute name calling... the buyer has the right to draw blood in a pre-purchase, they have the right to ask for certain terms in a bill of sale, did your friend even ask for a trial period? If not, you cannot state she wasnt given something she didnt even ask for.
I bought my gelding on a trial period, he was an unbroke 6 year old with check ligament surgery. I was given a few weeks to exercise him and see if there were any problems. According to vet, if the horse is going to have problems, it usually is immediate. This was all agreed upon before I took the horse home. I paid board and all costs for that few weeks and she potentially got some free training if he didnt work out. ETA - I also knew the owner through a friend which made this a more feasible option for me.
To the OP, i think you have been more than fair. I would tell them to s*** or get off the pot.
Edited by stayceem 2015-12-30 11:45 AM
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 Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12708
| I just turned a potential sale down on one of mine. Potential buyer wanted to do payments, wanted me to pay for prepurchase exam, wanted to take the horse home (we're honest people!) before paying off because I would charge so much more for feed than they could feed for (yeah, not even going to discuss that). No.
I sold one years ago and told the peeps if she didn't work out I'd buy her back (barring injuries) after a week or so. They came back to me after showing her all season and wanted me to buy her back. No. I held the money for two weeks or so and when I saw them at a show with the horse I considered sale final. They have bad mouthed me. Never again.
I have an ex-friend who sold a futurity horse, which means papers had to be transferred, for big bucks, on time payments. New owner stopped paying after about 10/25th's. Even after going to court and winning the first owner didn't get the money for the horse.
Pre-purchase exam away, at buyers expense, come to my place and ride as many times as you'd like, I'll haul horse to a show or two for you for a flat $25 haul fee, talk to anyone who's ever bought from me, but there will be no trial period without an insurance policy in place for 200% of the horses value, plus major medical, before leaving my property, which will cost a potential buyer approximately 200% of the horses value, plus a few for the medical coverage.
By their nature horses are bound to get into trouble or get sick. I don't care how much bubble wrap -- a horse can find a way to hurt themselves!
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Veteran
Posts: 189
| Well I went to my friend with this:
I would like a signed purchase agreement or payment in full. If they need to make payments, which I prefer not to do, I want that stated in writing as well what they can commit to. I explained that I am not trying to be a pain, but they have said every week that they will have money at the end of the week, and I never see it. She has told me before that they (the buyers) have and that is not an issue.
I said I just wanted things to be clear so that we know who the responsible party is.
So far... crickets chirping.. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | RunfastNTurn - 2015-12-30 12:50 PM Well I went to my friend with this:
I would like a signed purchase agreement or payment in full. If they need to make payments, which I prefer not to do, I want that stated in writing as well what they can commit to. I explained that I am not trying to be a pain, but they have said every week that they will have money at the end of the week, and I never see it. She has told me before that they (the buyers) have and that is not an issue.
I said I just wanted things to be clear so that we know who the responsible party is.
So far... crickets chirping..
I would not be taking payment's at this point, they have had this horse for 5 weeks and that is plenty of time to have payed you the 1000.00 I would NOT trust them to pay you all the money if making payments. You are just way to nice and alot nicer then I could have been with all this jerking around that they have been doing to you. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| RunfastNTurn - 2015-12-30 12:50 PM
Well I went to my friend with this:
I would like a signed purchase agreement or payment in full. If they need to make payments, which I prefer not to do, I want that stated in writing as well what they can commit to. I explained that I am not trying to be a pain,  but they have said every week that they will have money at the end of the week, and I never  see it. She has told me before that they (the buyers) have and that is not an issue.
I said I just wanted things to be clear so that we know who the responsible party is.Â
So far... crickets chirping..
I would go get the horse |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | cheryl makofka - 2015-12-30 1:33 PM RunfastNTurn - 2015-12-30 12:50 PM Well I went to my friend with this:
I would like a signed purchase agreement or payment in full. If they need to make payments, which I prefer not to do, I want that stated in writing as well what they can commit to. I explained that I am not trying to be a pain, but they have said every week that they will have money at the end of the week, and I never see it. She has told me before that they (the buyers) have and that is not an issue.
I said I just wanted things to be clear so that we know who the responsible party is.
So far... crickets chirping.. I would go get the horse
I agree go get your horse, this has been draged out way to long, seems to me they think they already own your horse. |
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