Liana D - 2016-01-20 8:29 PM

Watching him work on the fence he is totally avoiding using his back end, especially on the right hind. You're doing everything correctly, backing before you roll him back, which should put him on his hind end, but he evades it.
Catchy stifles can come from stifle joint soreness, loose ligaments,sore hocks or EPM. Conversely loose stifle ligaments can cause stifle joint pain.
If he were mine, I woud find a good performance vet. your vet saying "that might be his normal gait" shows complete ignorance .

streakysox - 2016-01-20 6:15 PM There are some tests you can do yourself. Cross front feet, if he stays that way, you have a problem. Raise his tail, there should be a lot of resistance. Lift his tail over his back and push it hard toward is front end hard. He should hump up like a scared cat. If you think the horse might have EPM go ahead and give it medicine. It won't hurt the horse. Injecting a horse will make a horse with EPM more pronounced.

chicks2 - 2016-01-30 9:00 AM I've dealt with 4 EPM cases. From what you're describing this horse either has a neurological issue or EPM. I would do what you're doing, treat it as EPM. And vets in my area are using compounded meds as well, so thats good. But if he's had this for months, 5 doses isn't going to show any improvement, in fact as things start to die off it makes them feel like crap. I'd think it will take at least a full dosing time before you see improvement and then you should do at least one more full dose, maybe 2. Be patient and don't ask him to do anything except eat and sleep. Good luck to you and your guy.

just4fun - 2016-01-30 9:08 PM

Thank you so much for sharing your experience! It's good to know what to expect. It is a little discouraging to see him get worse instead of better.  

Also want to thank kathyward01 for the messages offering advice! It's awesome to have a place to come for help and encouragement!
 

dianeguinn - 2016-01-31 9:23 AM I'm not a vet, but have dealt with this quite a bit in my own horses and my friends. I truly believe that soon EPM is going to be like worms. We're going to have to treat them periodically or they're going to show symptoms, especially if they're stressed (in training, hauling, competing, etc.). I truly believe that DDT killed that protozoa and when we outlawed it, it's boomed and we're now seeing its effects everywhere. Plus, the death of the fur trade, thanks to PETA, has also made the possum population explode, which also doesn't bode well for our horses. I also personally believe that all horses of grazing age have probably been exposed to the protozoa and if they're stressed, they're going to show symptoms. I treat every new horse I get in just for good measure because I know they've been stressed from hauling and change of environment. To me, it's just like worming a new one to make sure they're cleaned out of everything. Looking at your videos, he's got it pretty bad...a normal horse will not stand with its feet crossed, in fact, mine won't even let you cross them. They'll immediately put it back where it goes. EPM is progressive and the damage will continue until its treated. I've used every treatment out there, and so far, the pills from Dr. Ellison seem to work the best and the quickest. I wouldn't mess with compounded medicines....you never truly know if they're the correct dosages, etc. Dr. Ellison is working on a preventative, and I truly hope she gets it approved and it works. I think about 80% of training and soundness problems are actually EPM and if we could get rid of it, we could go back to the sound horses we had 20 years ago. JMO As for your horse getting worse, they sometimes will due to die off of the protozoa, just like a heavily infested wormy horse will get sick when it's first wormed, but he should show improvement quickly after. Avoid injections, as they will make EPM worse...good luck and feel free to pm me if you have questions. Here is a good video for tests you can perform yourself to see if they possibly have symptoms: http://thehorseaholic.com/detecting-neurological-problems-with-your...
very interesting take on that. I wouldn't doubt it at all. 

dianeguinn - 2016-01-31 10:23 AM I'm not a vet, but have dealt with this quite a bit in my own horses and my friends. I truly believe that soon EPM is going to be like worms. We're going to have to treat them periodically or they're going to show symptoms, especially if they're stressed (in training, hauling, competing, etc.). I truly believe that DDT killed that protozoa and when we outlawed it, it's boomed and we're now seeing its effects everywhere. Plus, the death of the fur trade, thanks to PETA, has also made the possum population explode, which also doesn't bode well for our horses. I also personally believe that all horses of grazing age have probably been exposed to the protozoa and if they're stressed, they're going to show symptoms. I treat every new horse I get in just for good measure because I know they've been stressed from hauling and change of environment. To me, it's just like worming a new one to make sure they're cleaned out of everything. Looking at your videos, he's got it pretty bad...a normal horse will not stand with its feet crossed, in fact, mine won't even let you cross them. They'll immediately put it back where it goes. EPM is progressive and the damage will continue until its treated. I've used every treatment out there, and so far, the pills from Dr. Ellison seem to work the best and the quickest. I wouldn't mess with compounded medicines....you never truly know if they're the correct dosages, etc. Dr. Ellison is working on a preventative, and I truly hope she gets it approved and it works. I think about 80% of training and soundness problems are actually EPM and if we could get rid of it, we could go back to the sound horses we had 20 years ago. JMO As for your horse getting worse, they sometimes will due to die off of the protozoa, just like a heavily infested wormy horse will get sick when it's first wormed, but he should show improvement quickly after. Avoid injections, as they will make EPM worse...good luck and feel free to pm me if you have questions. Here is a good video for tests you can perform yourself to see if they possibly have symptoms: http://thehorseaholic.com/detecting-neurological-problems-with-your...
Wow, great video.  Thanks for sharing.   

just4fun - 2016-02-01 10:35 AM Dianeguinn, I was not able to open that video on my computer, but I believe it is the same one that I posted above. It was very helpful! Wish I would have seen it a lot sooner! 



Geronimo seems maybe a little more alert and less depressed today. I have an appointment Wednesday with a vet who will send blood to UC Davis. I mentioned the other lab on here and she felt UC Davis was the "gold standard." It is much more expensive, but she is willing to help us figure this out and that is worth a lot to me! She also wants to rule out back injury, which she felt was a very real possibility based on my description. I'm excited to maybe get some answers!  



In the mean time, I'm off to the vet for the third time with my son's pet rat who is very ill... it's never ending!  

 

just4fun - 2016-02-01 11:35 AM

Dianeguinn, I was not able to open that video on my computer, but I believe it is the same one that I posted above. It was very helpful! Wish I would have seen it a lot sooner! 

Geronimo seems maybe a little more alert and less depressed today. I have an appointment Wednesday with a vet who will send blood to UC Davis. I mentioned the other lab on here and she felt UC Davis was the "gold standard." It is much more expensive, but she is willing to help us figure this out and that is worth a lot to me! She also wants to rule out back injury, which she felt was a very real possibility based on my description. I'm excited to maybe get some answers!  

In the mean time, I'm off to the vet for the third time with my son's pet rat who is very ill... it's never ending!  
 

just4fun - 2016-01-30 9:06 PM

Thanks for inquiring about Geronimo! There really isn't any change. He appears depressed, but is eating and drinking. I did think he seemed a little jumpy today (spooked at the water hose, etc)

I have not had him tested yet. I have contacted two vets and neither wanted to pursue testing since there is a response to the meds. To satisfy my own curiousity, I will try another vet on Monday.  

I found this video online that I thought was helpful because it shows a normal vs. affected horse. https://youtu.be/0QDeskJRbQ4
I did not do the acupuncture points, as I am not familiar with those, but I would score his respone a 3-5 on all others. It's really strange to see! And, I would have never known without that video guide! No anal reflex, very little fly response, etc...