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  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
   
Location: NE Texas | cavyrunsbarrels - 2016-04-19 10:54 AM Safechoice is NOT a safe choice at all. I would NEVER buy anything from Nutrena. Between the two Ultium at least isn't putting your horse at risk for poisoning. Many horses at my barn are on it. They all do look decent so as far as processed feeds go, I'd say it's a relatively good one. Personally, if the RG isn't really working for you, I'd try oats, flax, and alfalfa before going to a pellet.
I'd like to second what Cavy said here.  | |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | Tdove - 2016-04-19 12:10 PM
countrygirl2006 - 2016-04-19 11:09 AM
Tdove - 2016-04-19 10:26 AM Between the two and cost aside, I personally would probably go with Ultium. It is incredibly expensive. I don't believe it is anything special by any means. Safechoice, I would never feed that again, personally. Different mills producing different formulas, least cost formula instead of fixed, and ingredient list virtually hidden except for the vague, by law tag. I would not prefer to feed it over many other things, myself.
It really isn't that expensive in my opinion. I pay a little less than $25 a bag, making each pound $0.50. Feeding 4 lbs a day is only $2 a day. With Renew Gold, I was feeding $3 a day (3 lbs when the recommendation was 1.5) trying to get her to keep her weight. If one were to feed the recommended weight of Ulitium, yes it would be expensive but for most horses I would imagine they don't need that much. Also, your post above regarding forage being the primary source of a diet and grains secondary, yes I agree with you but in my case that wasn't the problem. My mare was getting 20 lbs of decent quality alfalfa hay, the best quality that I can find in our area and unlimited good grass hay plus 3 lbs of Renew Gold. She lost fullness in her topline and overall filling over her rump and ribs. Her hay remained the same and I swapped out the Renew Gold for Ulitium and it may a world of difference. Initialy she was probably getting 6 lbs a day of Ulitium but now she is down to 4 lbs. Every horse is an individual and what "should be" or what works on some doesn't always work on others.
First of all, analyzing how much you feed in comparison to what it costs is somewhat of a marketing ploy by expensive feeds. That really isn't the best way determine cost or compare. Both Ulitium and Renew Gold are at the very upper end of the expense category, no matter how you look at it. I am not saying either is bad just because of it. Both Ultium and Renew Gold are high fat, high energy feeds and are somewhat comparable energy and fat wise. Both should have low feeding rates. The recommended feeding rate is set by the manufacturer and is quite arbitrary. Renew Gold has set theirs low and Utlium higher. To think there is any negligible difference between 3lbs of RG and 4lbs of Ultium doesn't stand the reality test, when all other things are equal. Now 6lbs yes. Also as the horse gains weight, health improves and often times a lower maintenance feeding rate can be achieved. Unless you have tested hay then and now, with the same results, or the horse had a digestive issue then and is now functioning better, then I would still believe the hay quality to be your issue. Either way, it is not a case of 3lbs of RG didn't work, while 4lbs of Ultium is the ticket. If the horse had a good digestive system and the hay was good quality, 20lbs of alfalfa and the rest free choice good grass hay, would not show a decrease in weight, regardless of the 3-4 lbs of anything else you were feeding. This is true because the concentrate portion is only 12-13% of the diet. It is the 87-88% that matters most, every time.
I have fed hundreds of horses and they are all the same. The only exceptions are those with a metabolic disorder, an immunity issue, or a digestive issue. I have never bought into they are all different when it comes to effectiveness of feed sources and ingredients. They are all much more the same than they are different, unless there is a correlating third party factor, affecting health.
At the risk of stealing this thread, there is a very significant difference between Ultium and Renew Gold in use and formulation. Ultium was originally developed to use Stabilized Rice Bran as a primary fat source to replace grain and lower NSC in the diet. The goal was to compete with Natural Glo Stabilized Rice Bran at the time it was developed. It does do this, but straight SRB is expensive, so additional ingredients allow for a lower overall retail cost while providing a good story. In most diets, If your goal is simply to replace part or all of the grain. Ultium may have an application. At one time, food grade stabilized rice bran was used in the formulation. I was in the initial meetings where supply of that rice bran was negotiated. I do not know what the supply is today, but that may still be the case.
Renew Gold was developed to have a system wide effect on digestive efficiency. A key here is the use of coconut meal in the formulation at a ratio that allows very specific anti bacterial and anti inflammatory effects in the stomach and small intestine. Once that is done, that portion of the feed reaches a point were the natural coconut oil part of the coconut meal that does this has been digested and used as an energy source prior to reaching the hind gut. We do not want an anti bacterial effect in the hind gut. There is no other feed product on the market that combines a different functional effect in each part of the digestive system as it progresses through the system in this way. While it is very energy dense, that is a bonus, and really not the main goal of the product. The primary goal is improvements of function through the entire system that helps the horse get the most out of it's roughage. The more completely a horse uses its' roughage sources, the less you need to add in the form of concentrates. That is why the feed rate is so low. Being 15% fat and 15% protein is a bonus, not the goal, and this, along with using only non gmo ingredients is the primary difference between Renew Gold and any Rice Bran based grain replacement product.
Edited by winwillows 2016-04-19 4:28 PM
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| ecranch - 2016-04-19 8:55 AM
readytorodeo - 2016-04-19 8:12 AM
None of the above. Kool Speed Plus with Vitalize High Performance and Equine Regen. Simplify your feeding program. You won't be sorry.
I do feed Vitalize and have not seen a change yet (at 30 days ). Kool Speed Plus is not in my area. We don't have a lot to choose from!
What are you feeding? I have never seen the Vitalize not work. You do not want to feed something with other probiotics in it. And you don't need a feed with additional vitamin/mineral . I would go with oats, 1/4 alfalfa pellets and 1/4 corn. The corn only if you are hauling and riding. Good grass hay . Timothy if you can get it. You won't need anything else except maybe a joint supplement. The key is to keep it simple.
Edited by readytorodeo 2016-04-20 2:14 AM
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Ultium. It did not make my horse hotter.
Not a a nutrena fan due to previously mentioned reasons. I fed triple crown for a time, which is manufactured by Nutrena. I had inconsistent feed. Another friend had contaminated TC.
i have limited options and just two horses, so I but the Ultium growth for my colt. The gelding is on a locally milled feed the boarding barn feeds.
Ultium is worth every penny to me.
If if you would like another option, try to find Tribute. I have heard good things.
I I can't get it where I'm at.
Also, sorry for the double words... My iPhone adds them on this site for some reason. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 795
Location: GODS country | Does anyone feed extra rice bran WITH Ultium?
Do you add a vit/min supplement like Vitalize, or Platinum Performance? | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | ecranch - 2016-04-20 7:50 AM Does anyone feed extra rice bran WITH Ultium? Do you add a vit/min supplement like Vitalize, or Platinum Performance?
When I was feeding it, I never felt the need to add anything to it. I do add rice bran with lower fat feeds for my hard keeper, but ever needed to with Ultium. | |
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 Zeal Queen
Posts: 3826
Location: TEXAS | None....oats, renew gold, FORCO, salt, and alfalfa. I'm like many others....no more processed feeds and simplifying my feeding program. Like Connie Combs said to me at our clinic, "Why do we think man-made food is better for horses, than what God intended for them." That hit me like a ton of bricks!! 
ETA: I was feeding Safe Choice. | |
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Red Hot Cardinal Fan
Posts: 4122
| slacy09 - 2016-04-20 8:13 AM None....oats, renew gold, FORCO, salt, and alfalfa. I'm like many others....no more processed feeds and simplifying my feeding program. Like Connie Combs said to me at our clinic, "Why do we think man-made food is better for horses, than what God intended for them." That hit me like a ton of bricks!!
ETA: I was feeding Safe Choice.
How is Renew Gold not a processed feed? It comes to you as a pelleted feed.  | |
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Zeal Queen
Posts: 3826
Location: TEXAS | That is true....hadn't thought of that. Guess that is out of my program too. Thank you | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 336
Location: MN | Ya'll realize that Renew Gold is a fat supplement and not a feed, don't you? Ultium and SafeChoice feeds are just that - fortified feeds with vitamins and minerals. There are no vitamins and minerals added to the Renew Gold... | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 336
Location: MN | I do not believe God intended horses to eat oats. FORCO, rice bran (renew gold), and oats are not "natural" to the horses' digestive system. There are feeds on the market that utilize the same things you are adding separately. Horses are designed as grazers but our graze doesn't have the fortification necessary of our performance horses therefore we need to add in vitamins/minerals and calories from other sources. I'm not saying your program is wrong just clarifying what the horse is designed to digest. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| finbin - 2016-04-20 8:57 AM
I do not believe God intended horses to eat oats. FORCO, rice bran (renew gold), and oats are not "natural" to the horses' digestive system. There are feeds on the market that utilize the same things you are adding separately. Horses are designed as grazers but our graze doesn't have the fortification necessary of our performance horses therefore we need to add in vitamins/minerals and calories from other sources. I'm not saying your program is wrong just clarifying what the horse is designed to digest.
Oats are the most natural grain to feed. I don't understand your comment that horses were not meant to eat oats? Ultimate, Safe Choice feeds are processed feeds. Renew gold can be fed by itself.
Edited by readytorodeo 2016-04-20 9:05 AM
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 Elite Veteran
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Location: West Texas | finbin - 2016-04-20 8:57 AM
I do not believe God intended horses to eat oats. FORCO, rice bran (renew gold), and oats are not "natural" to the horses' digestive system. There are feeds on the market that utilize the same things you are adding separately. Horses are designed as grazers but our graze doesn't have the fortification necessary of our performance horses therefore we need to add in vitamins/minerals and calories from other sources. I'm not saying your program is wrong just clarifying what the horse is designed to digest.
Finbin, what do you suggest is natural and right?
Oats are the most natural feed next to forage. I don't have a clue how anyone could argue against that. The most unnatural feed ingredient is vitamin and mineral supplements. Synthetic vitamins and chemically broken down rocks are quite unnatural, more so than anything else given to a horse in the form of a feed.
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| God probably didn't intend for us to ride horses or barrel race on them either. lol Sometimes we need to help horses more because lets face it, their genetic code has designed them to graze freely on an open range, have enough energy to bolt if chased or threatened by a predator etc. Horses genetics do not help them to be saddled, ridden with 100-200+ pounds around 3 barrels at top speed after being hauled in a trailer and tied to the side of it... lol Oh I digress. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | finbin - 2016-04-20 8:51 AM
Ya'll realize that Renew Gold is a fat supplement and not a feed, don't you? Ultium and SafeChoice feeds are just that - fortified feeds with vitamins and minerals. There are no vitamins and minerals added to the Renew Gold...
Renew Gold is not simply a fat supplement. It is 15% fat. That means that it is 85% other nutrients in a very specific formulation designed to normalize digestive efficiency. Please read my explanation above on what it is formulated to do. While synthetic vitamins and additional minerals are not added, it is naturally very high in fat soluble vitamins. Water soluble vitamins are made naturally by the horse in the hind gut when that system is fully functional. As I stated above, that is the primary goal of Renew Gold in the diet. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 336
Location: MN | readytorodeo - 2016-04-20 9:02 AM
finbin - 2016-04-20 8:57 AM
I do not believe God intended horses to eat oats. FORCO, rice bran (renew gold), and oats are not "natural" to the horses' digestive system. There are feeds on the market that utilize the same things you are adding separately. Horses are designed as grazers but our graze doesn't have the fortification necessary of our performance horses therefore we need to add in vitamins/minerals and calories from other sources. I'm not saying your program is wrong just clarifying what the horse is designed to digest.
Oats are the most natural grain to feed. I don't understand your comment that horses were not meant to eat oats? Ultimate, Safe Choice feeds are processed feeds. Renew gold can be fed by itself.
Oats are a natural grain: yes, but, grains are not natural to the digestive system of the horse. That's the only point I was trying to make. Oats are simply calories; they do not have any other nutritional content except starch and some indigestible fiber. The equine digestive system was designed to process forages, not grains. In order to avoid digestive upset and still add calories; fermentable fibers and fats are the way to go albeit still not necessarily 'natural' but more in line with how a horse digests feedstuffs. Of course you can feed Renew by itself, you'll just be short changing your horse the vitamins and minerals he needs. I'm just saying the Renew is not a balanced source of vitamins and minerals. | |
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 Warrior Mom
Posts: 4400
| FLITASTIC - 2016-04-20 10:17 AM
God probably didn't intend for us to ride horses or barrel race on them either. lol Sometimes we need to help horses more because lets face it, their genetic code has designed them to graze freely on an open range, have enough energy to bolt if chased or threatened by a predator etc. Horses genetics do not help them to be saddled, ridden with 100-200+ pounds around 3 barrels at top speed after being hauled in a trailer and tied to the side of it... lol Oh I digress.
Agree with you on this. The amount of feed, supplements , gadgets , gimmicks etc etc that a horse owner has to choose from is downright overwhelming sometimes! You can ask 10 different people what they "think" is the right way to feed or whatnot, and you'll get 20 different answers lol! It's a constant debate with my own father in law on feeding, he believes in oats and that's it.. nothing more nothing less... his horses are pasture ornaments, nothing more.. he argues horses in the "wild " don't get all that fancy "crap" I feed, don't get blankets or shoes or worming or vaccines. . I remind him my horses were born in a domesticated environment, not out on the range lol! I think, do your research, first and foremost make sure your feed of choice is safe from ionophores, and then make your choice, give it a try, if you don't like the way your horses are looking or acting, try something else till you find what works. Nothing wrong with asking opinions, but be prepared for the answers! | |
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Zeal Queen
Posts: 3826
Location: TEXAS | finbin - 2016-04-20 10:47 AM readytorodeo - 2016-04-20 9:02 AM finbin - 2016-04-20 8:57 AM I do not believe God intended horses to eat oats. FORCO, rice bran (renew gold), and oats are not "natural" to the horses' digestive system. There are feeds on the market that utilize the same things you are adding separately. Horses are designed as grazers but our graze doesn't have the fortification necessary of our performance horses therefore we need to add in vitamins/minerals and calories from other sources. I'm not saying your program is wrong just clarifying what the horse is designed to digest. Oats are the most natural grain to feed. I don't understand your comment that horses were not meant to eat oats? Ultimate, Safe Choice feeds are processed feeds. Renew gold can be fed by itself. Oats are a natural grain: yes, but, grains are not natural to the digestive system of the horse. That's the only point I was trying to make. Oats are simply calories; they do not have any other nutritional content except starch and some indigestible fiber. The equine digestive system was designed to process forages, not grains. In order to avoid digestive upset and still add calories; fermentable fibers and fats are the way to go albeit still not necessarily 'natural' but more in line with how a horse digests feedstuffs. Of course you can feed Renew by itself, you'll just be short changing your horse the vitamins and minerals he needs. I'm just saying the Renew is not a balanced source of vitamins and minerals.
So then basically if you get down to it the only thing a horse needs is forage?? | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | finbin - 2016-04-20 10:47 AM
readytorodeo - 2016-04-20 9:02 AM
finbin - 2016-04-20 8:57 AM
I do not believe God intended horses to eat oats. FORCO, rice bran (renew gold), and oats are not "natural" to the horses' digestive system. There are feeds on the market that utilize the same things you are adding separately. Horses are designed as grazers but our graze doesn't have the fortification necessary of our performance horses therefore we need to add in vitamins/minerals and calories from other sources. I'm not saying your program is wrong just clarifying what the horse is designed to digest.
Oats are the most natural grain to feed. I don't understand your comment that horses were not meant to eat oats? Ultimate, Safe Choice feeds are processed feeds. Renew gold can be fed by itself.
Oats are a natural grain: yes, but, grains are not natural to the digestive system of the horse. That's the only point I was trying to make. Oats are simply calories; they do not have any other nutritional content except starch and some indigestible fiber. The equine digestive system was designed to process forages, not grains. In order to avoid digestive upset and still add calories; fermentable fibers and fats are the way to go albeit still not necessarily 'natural' but more in line with how a horse digests feedstuffs. Of course you can feed Renew by itself, you'll just be short changing your horse the vitamins and minerals he needs. I'm just saying the Renew is not a balanced source of vitamins and minerals.
Oats have quite a bit of nutrients and wild horses have been grazing on them for eons...
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 336
Location: MN | slacy09 - 2016-04-20 10:58 AM
finbin - 2016-04-20 10:47 AM readytorodeo - 2016-04-20 9:02 AM finbin - 2016-04-20 8:57 AM I do not believe God intended horses to eat oats. FORCO, rice bran (renew gold), and oats are not "natural" to the horses' digestive system. There are feeds on the market that utilize the same things you are adding separately. Horses are designed as grazers but our graze doesn't have the fortification necessary of our performance horses therefore we need to add in vitamins/minerals and calories from other sources. I'm not saying your program is wrong just clarifying what the horse is designed to digest. Oats are the most natural grain to feed. I don't understand your comment that horses were not meant to eat oats? Ultimate, Safe Choice feeds are processed feeds. Renew gold can be fed by itself. Oats are a natural grain: yes, but, grains are not natural to the digestive system of the horse. That's the only point I was trying to make. Oats are simply calories; they do not have any other nutritional content except starch and some indigestible fiber. The equine digestive system was designed to process forages, not grains. In order to avoid digestive upset and still add calories; fermentable fibers and fats are the way to go albeit still not necessarily 'natural' but more in line with how a horse digests feedstuffs. Of course you can feed Renew by itself, you'll just be short changing your horse the vitamins and minerals he needs. I'm just saying the Renew is not a balanced source of vitamins and minerals.
I'm not saying that the only thing the horse needs is forage; especially if it's being worked. No forage has a proper balance of the needed vitamins and minerals the horse needs for optimal metabolism. All horses need a vitamin mineral but not all horses need oats. There are other sources of calories that work more 'naturally' within the system that are not high in starch. Forage should always be the cornerstone of your horses diet but really only rely on forage for protein, calories and fiber as it's imbalanced in minerals and vitamins are leached out of it every day after its cut. If you're feeding a grass hay I wouldn't rely on it for protein either. | |
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