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 Did I miss the party?
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| HorsesNHarleys - 2016-04-22 8:23 AM So the AQHA 5 panle test says it includes PSSM but it only tests for type 1?
Correct |
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Did I miss the party?
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| Gator Bug - 2016-04-22 8:26 AM What is RER? Thanks. Recurrent Exertional Rhabdomyolysis
Which in our language bascially means = horse ties up..... LOL
Also can be generally maintained by diet but, alfalfa is not usually what works best for them.
Again, each horse is different. 
Edited to add: not letting these horses sit too long is also important. As well as proper warm up, blah blah blah
Edited by barrelracinbroke 2016-04-22 10:34 AM
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Elite Veteran
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Location: Weatherford, TX | barrelracinbroke - 2016-04-22 10:28 AM HorsesNHarleys - 2016-04-22 8:23 AM So the AQHA 5 panle test says it includes PSSM but it only tests for type 1? Correct
So, is PSSM 1 or 2 genetic? Thanks again. |
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Did I miss the party?
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| Gator Bug - 2016-04-22 8:55 AM barrelracinbroke - 2016-04-22 10:28 AM HorsesNHarleys - 2016-04-22 8:23 AM So the AQHA 5 panle test says it includes PSSM but it only tests for type 1? Correct
Yes, both genetic.
But, two different genetic mutations.
Currently, there's a hair follicle test that can determine type 1. As is included in the current AQHA 5-panel test or, can be done by Animal Genetics in Florida. But testing outside of AQHA itself will not be recognized in their database although results are still just as accurate and completed within just a few business days instead of weeks like AQHA.
Type 2 current testing protocol is done by muscle biopsy only because the industry hadn't found the actual gene causing type 2 yet. Now, there's research that is claiming a gene has been identified and they're able to test for that gene through a blood sample. That's the study some of us have horses enrolled in. If their research is accurate, a hair follicle test will follow and muscle biopsy's will no longer be necessary for type 2.
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Lost in the corn of Iowa. | cheeka77 - 2016-04-21 11:40 PM
Sorry guys just getting to the computer (my mare foaled!!) yes they have determined the gene and it is a dominant genetic disorder. Everyone knows that Hancocks are the broncy ones and lo and behold, they all go back to Midnight and Peter McCue and I'd be willing to bet a lot of money the two we had were both PSSM 2 positive because they showed all the signs (we just didnt know it). I hope you have good luck in the study roxieannie and hopefully pleasntly surprised! Im exhausted but when I get back on tomorrow I'll post more information, part of the reason they want to rename the type 2 is because it's a different form of glycogen storing and they're fed a little differently, Im still learning though!
So....what you're saying is that the Hancock line has been found to be a carrier for this PSSM type 2?? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 705
Location: Weatherford, TX | Wow! This is facinating and a great thread!
We first dealt with PSSM back in 2003/2004, well before very much was known at all.
Thanks so much for the thread. |
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 Extreme Veteran
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| Girls_Gotta_Jet - 2016-04-22 11:38 AM cheeka77 - 2016-04-21 11:40 PM Sorry guys just getting to the computer (my mare foaled!!) yes they have determined the gene and it is a dominant genetic disorder. Everyone knows that Hancocks are the broncy ones and lo and behold, they all go back to Midnight and Peter McCue and I'd be willing to bet a lot of money the two we had were both PSSM 2 positive because they showed all the signs (we just didnt know it). I hope you have good luck in the study roxieannie and hopefully pleasntly surprised! Im exhausted but when I get back on tomorrow I'll post more information, part of the reason they want to rename the type 2 is because it's a different form of glycogen storing and they're fed a little differently, Im still learning though! So....what you're saying is that the Hancock line has been found to be a carrier for this PSSM type 2??
Yes that is the belief (which makes total sense, especially from the sterotypes) and those bloodlines go back to the suspect lines a lot. They're trying to get as many as they can in the study and in the database |
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Extreme Veteran
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| barrelracinbroke - 2016-04-22 10:07 AM I am part of the study for type 2 as well and am waiting for my results. My gelding tested negative for type 1 via hair sample. He does tie up, has tight musles, twitches, tail swishing etc. I've pulled blood and he had a slightly elevated AST level. He's a pretty classic case. As you know, they're saying that they believe PSSM2 is not as sensitive to carbs BUT, I know for a fact mine's effected by carbs as he will tie up if I feed him even 1# of oats a day. So, if he's not PSSM2 he's RER or something. We obviously just have to learn what works best for each horse. Mine is on a low-starch/high protein diet that's mainly alfalfa based (I balance with some phosphorous). He does get some fat too and I've always fed him vit e an selenium (always natural vitamin e) as well as a few other things. As far as this issue is concerned, he's totally maintained by diet. Won't tie up even if I skip a couple of days of riding, muscles aren't tight, nothing. Which leads me to believe even more it's PSSM2 vs RER because if it was RER he probably wouldn't do as well with having an alfalfa based diet. But, he's got an unrelated soundness issue that I'm still dealing with. Hopefully that will be behind us in the next few months as well.
I hope you get good results! My horse is just like yours and came back N/P2 and another friends came back Neg but pos for RER so they're similar like you said :) What are you feeding for high protein? Any oats at all send my mare into tremmors and part of my battle is her high anxiety and attitude so I'm hoping the E (which they say probably doesn't make a difference in type 2 horses) will help with that. |
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  Champ
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Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | They actually have found PSSM2 to be genetic and are developing a hair test for it. |
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Did I miss the party?
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| cheeka77 - 2016-04-22 3:27 PM barrelracinbroke - 2016-04-22 10:07 AM I am part of the study for type 2 as well and am waiting for my results. My gelding tested negative for type 1 via hair sample. He does tie up, has tight musles, twitches, tail swishing etc. I've pulled blood and he had a slightly elevated AST level. He's a pretty classic case. As you know, they're saying that they believe PSSM2 is not as sensitive to carbs BUT, I know for a fact mine's effected by carbs as he will tie up if I feed him even 1# of oats a day. So, if he's not PSSM2 he's RER or something. We obviously just have to learn what works best for each horse. Mine is on a low-starch/high protein diet that's mainly alfalfa based (I balance with some phosphorous). He does get some fat too and I've always fed him vit e an selenium (always natural vitamin e) as well as a few other things. As far as this issue is concerned, he's totally maintained by diet. Won't tie up even if I skip a couple of days of riding, muscles aren't tight, nothing. Which leads me to believe even more it's PSSM2 vs RER because if it was RER he probably wouldn't do as well with having an alfalfa based diet. But, he's got an unrelated soundness issue that I'm still dealing with. Hopefully that will be behind us in the next few months as well. I hope you get good results! My horse is just like yours and came back N/P2 and another friends came back Neg but pos for RER so they're similar like you said :) What are you feeding for high protein? Any oats at all send my mare into tremmors and part of my battle is her high anxiety and attitude so I'm hoping the E (which they say probably doesn't make a difference in type 2 horses) will help with that.
Thank you! No matter what he comes back with, I feel better knowing it's being controlled with diet at least. :)
He gets alfalfa for protein.
Yes, no oats for mine either! Lol.
I like to feed some natural vitamin E to all of my horses, but I did have his vitamin E and Sel blood levels checked just to make sure they were in line and luckily, they were.
Good luck with yours and I hope she can be maintained with diet as well.
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 Quarter Horse HIstorian
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Location: Aubrey, Texas | I seem to recall reading that they have traced it back to Mittie Stephens (b.1869) and down through her son, Locks Rondo. I don't remember if it was Type I or Type II. I have a 22 y/o mare who I suspect has it- she's a pasture ornament now; I wish I would have known more about this when I was running her. Best of luck to all of you who are dealing with it- I'm thankful that you're learning how to recognize and control the symptoms. |
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Extreme Veteran
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| cloverleaf - 2016-04-22 6:53 PM I seem to recall reading that they have traced it back to Mittie Stephens (b.1869) and down through her son, Locks Rondo. I don't remember if it was Type I or Type II. I have a 22 y/o mare who I suspect has it- she's a pasture ornament now; I wish I would have known more about this when I was running her. Best of luck to all of you who are dealing with it- I'm thankful that you're learning how to recognize and control the symptoms.
They are both suspects for type 1 which is a little different than the type 2 gene (and to blow your mind even more they think there are 3 or more varrying on breed!) but thank you, I just want to get the word out and make others aware, I have a sad feeling that there are a lot of unwanted nicely bred horses thrown away because of what people thought were pain issues :( |
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Veteran
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| I have a PSSM barrel horse as well! Please feel free to message me any time. Like you, it took ALOT of diagnostics until we actually tested for it. You know how many people told me it was just attitude and to ride him through it?? :-/
I tried the Wellsolve and it didn't work for me, he actually was a bit worse with the tremors. I have cut out grain completely and it has been magic. I use only alfalfa pellets. Also, read into l-carnitine. Most people suggest ALCAR but I didn't see the results until I tried L-carnitine. Right now the magic combo is alfalfa pellets, magnesium, l-carnitine, salt, and excel EQ (which has the vitamin e), Your mare will calm down greatly, the tense muscles and extreme nervousness was gone by week 2 for my boy.
My best advice (other than the diet changes) would be to make sure she can get out every day or stay turned out. We don't have access to pasture out here, so every single day I make sure to get out there and exercise him.
Again, please don't hesitate to message me if you have any questions. |
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 I Want a "MAN"
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Location: MD | I just sent out a hair sample this morning to Animal Genetics, I opted for the 5 panel test. Vet thinks my mare has PSSM1. She only suggested a tiny bit of alfalfa pellets and grass hay. How important are the vitamins? Shes 75 lbs overweight is that maybe why she wants to feed her so little right now? |
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I Want a "MAN"
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Location: MD | Bump |
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 Too Skinny
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Location: LA Lower Alabama | Very interesting! Thanks for sharing this.
Edited by cowgalsissy 2016-08-12 10:38 AM
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Location: Georgia | SO have the manes of popular studs that carry PSSM genes been released yet? I am looking into buying a colt and id love to know what crosses to be cautious about. Can someone please Pm me who they suspect? |
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Extreme Veteran
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| I'm not as familiar with type 1 so if you have FB that would be a great place to ask! I know the recommended diet for P1 horses is high fat but I think they have some tricks up their sleeves for chubby horses :) As for minerals, it all depends on your feed program and how balanced their diet is but again, I would ask :) None as majorly expensive though so that's good! |
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Extreme Veteran
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| For type 1 horses, BRIDGE Equine has a databse you can look through of publicly tested horses that people have submitted and some that they suspect. There are also a few ranches that tested all of their horses including a few big name horses that are/were deceased so that's really helpfull! If you go on the FB page though there are a few people that can help you if you post a pedigree and tell you about any suspects! People tend to get in a tizzy over here when I post names even though the general consensious is that people suspect them and it makes TOTAL sense. There are now LOTS so buying a horse right now for me would be extrememly difficult (in my shoes)  |
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Extreme Veteran
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| I went back and highlighted where I edited the first post with updated info and what I've learned so far :) High Protein for type 2 horses is the deit, fat doesn't matter for them like type 1's, NSC doesn't matter on a scientific scale but my mare is senstive to it still and so are a few others. My mare is also enrolled in the study for the "P3" MFM test so hopefully I will hear back soon. The hair test for P2 is now live! $99 for a short time to hair test your horses so I strongly encourage people to test :) I sent the info to the stallion owner so I'm not sure what they are going to choose to do. |
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