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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 974
  
Location: USA | Ha! Nope =) we can complain together!! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 974
Location: USA | That's how he is! You canNOT lope him down. He just goes and goes and goes. I'll try going to the left and see if that maybe changes some things up for him. I'm willing to try anything. He's talented - we just need to get it together |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 974
Location: USA | I've tried doing big arcs, I've tried running him straight at it. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 974
Location: USA | CanCan - 2016-05-10 12:16 PM
I don't feel so alone now. *sniff* I thought I was the only one with this problem.
I just realized I kept replying to people but it wasn't putting their post on the reply. Haha so now there's all these random posts of mine.  |
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Expert
Posts: 1207
| My retired gelding was like this. No matter what I did lope and lope and lope, started from the back alley, didn't start till the timer, didn't matter, he would still go by that first. Sometimes to the fence sometimes not. I went to a Rienhardt clinic and Vicki said that I needed to sit sooner and say WHOA. Turns out he was a 3 WHOA horse. He would get so involved in "running" to that first that he just didn't hear the 1 WHOA. Started doing that and he started to rate the first. Didn't have to do it so much in the indoor pens but did at the outdoor pens. Just a suggestion. |
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | Dreamingofcans - 2016-05-10 11:52 AM I've tried going from the alley and just started moving him closer up. Last night at the jackpot we were high loping to the first and he still didn't want to rate and went a stride past the first. He just doesn't even think of turning it no matter how much slow work and schooling we do.
If you're only high loping and he still doesn't want to turn it - I'd look at reasons why. How seasoned is this horse? How long has he been blowing the first barrel? What kind of slow work have you been doing with him? Does he turn the first at home?
Do you have any videos? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 974
Location: USA | MS2011 - 2016-05-10 1:13 PM Dreamingofcans - 2016-05-10 11:52 AM I've tried going from the alley and just started moving him closer up. Last night at the jackpot we were high loping to the first and he still didn't want to rate and went a stride past the first. He just doesn't even think of turning it no matter how much slow work and schooling we do. If you're only high loping and he still doesn't want to turn it - I'd look at reasons why. How seasoned is this horse? How long has he been blowing the first barrel? What kind of slow work have you been doing with him? Does he turn the first at home?
Do you have any videos?
Yes he turns it at home.
He's not seasoned at all.
at home I work on speed transitions - I pick the same spot every time as our rate point. I work on keeping his hip in. I can cruise him through at home and he works. I cruise him through during one expo and he works and then I take him through slow again. It's only in the open. I don't get nervous, but I'm not sure if he just knows he's about to run?? I don't do anything different. I don't rubber band my feet or make sure my over and under is positioned right so there's no cues to tell him we're about to make a run. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 974
Location: USA | Sandok - 2016-05-10 12:30 PM
My retired gelding was like this. No matter what I did lope and lope and lope, started from the back alley, didn't start till the timer, didn't matter, he would still go by that first. Sometimes to the fence sometimes not. I went to a Rienhardt clinic and Vicki said that I needed to sit sooner and say WHOA. Turns out he was a 3 WHOA horse. He would get so involved in "running" to that first that he just didn't hear the 1 WHOA. Started doing that and he started to rate the first. Didn't have to do it so much in the indoor pens but did at the outdoor pens. Just a suggestion.
I have noticed when I say whoa at home or during an expo he's better. I think I forget during a run with him  |
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Expert
Posts: 1207
| Most of the time during an actual run we do forget, happens to all of us at some point in time. Just remember if you do it at home or during an exhibition you got to do it during your actual run and you may have to say it more than once. I know on my older gelding I had to say Whoa more than once, on my mare I didn't cause if I said it to her she would rate too soon. I had to say the "Whoa" to her at the last second and very softly (sort of). She is very sensitive to anything out of the ordinary. Also you may not think you are pumping him up for a run but we are. Remember if a horse can feel a fly on them, they can feel our heartbeats go faster. Hard telling what he is cluing in on when you do your actual run. Make sense. Hang in there, you two will click. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1631
Location: Somewhere around here | Dreamingofcans - 2016-05-10 8:44 AM
He's been vetted, chiro and teeth. Everything is good.
This was my first thought.
I have a free runner that I have just about gone crazy trying to figure him out but the best thing for us right now is to high lope to the first. When we are halfway from the timer to the first barrel I bend him and shape him for the turn. Say a little "ho" 3 strides before the turn then a loud "HO!" at the turn. The small "ho" helps remind myself for the loud one. I have to do this at all three barrels right now but it's really been helping. Going to a jackpot tonight to see if it will work when we're not at home. It's not the fastest thing out there BUT I'd rather be correct than fast right now.
ETA: I don't pull back on him on the pattern. I've done enough shoulder picking up, bending, counter arcing work to know that if I ask my horse to bend he will slow down at any gait.
Edited by cecollins0811 2016-05-10 3:11 PM
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Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | Dreamingofcans - 2016-05-10 1:28 PM MS2011 - 2016-05-10 1:13 PM Dreamingofcans - 2016-05-10 11:52 AM I've tried going from the alley and just started moving him closer up. Last night at the jackpot we were high loping to the first and he still didn't want to rate and went a stride past the first. He just doesn't even think of turning it no matter how much slow work and schooling we do. If you're only high loping and he still doesn't want to turn it - I'd look at reasons why. How seasoned is this horse? How long has he been blowing the first barrel? What kind of slow work have you been doing with him? Does he turn the first at home?
Do you have any videos?
He's not seasoned at all.
at home I work on speed transitions - I pick the same spot every time as our rate point. I work on keeping his hip in. I can cruise him through at home and he works. I cruise him through during one expo and he works and then I take him through slow again. It's only in the open. I don't get nervous, but I'm not sure if he just knows he's about to run?? I don't do anything different. I don't rubber band my feet or make sure my over and under is positioned right so there's no cues to tell him we're about to make a run.
If he's good at home and good when you exhibition him....then it has to be something you're doing differently in a run. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 974
Location: USA | MS2011 - 2016-05-10 3:14 PM Dreamingofcans - 2016-05-10 1:28 PM MS2011 - 2016-05-10 1:13 PM Dreamingofcans - 2016-05-10 11:52 AM I've tried going from the alley and just started moving him closer up. Last night at the jackpot we were high loping to the first and he still didn't want to rate and went a stride past the first. He just doesn't even think of turning it no matter how much slow work and schooling we do. If you're only high loping and he still doesn't want to turn it - I'd look at reasons why. How seasoned is this horse? How long has he been blowing the first barrel? What kind of slow work have you been doing with him? Does he turn the first at home?
Do you have any videos?
He's not seasoned at all.
at home I work on speed transitions - I pick the same spot every time as our rate point. I work on keeping his hip in. I can cruise him through at home and he works. I cruise him through during one expo and he works and then I take him through slow again. It's only in the open. I don't get nervous, but I'm not sure if he just knows he's about to run?? I don't do anything different. I don't rubber band my feet or make sure my over and under is positioned right so there's no cues to tell him we're about to make a run.
Maybe my heart rate does go up in anticipation?? I don't ride any different |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | I like fast horses, its an important attribute in a barrel horse for me. A few of my horses have had SI's in the 'teens. I had one several years back that needed a quick stop to remind him of set and turn at the first. It worked wonders. It had been many years since I used this bridle and all I can say is I rode him with kid gloves. But he got back to winning with it.If it was a big pen he could easily daylight the field if he nailed his first turn. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 974
Location: USA | uno-dos-tres! - 2016-05-10 3:33 PM
I like fast horses, its an important attribute in a barrel horse for me. A few of my horses have had SI's in the 'teens. I had one several years back that needed a quick stop to remind him of set and turn at the first. It worked wonders. It had been many years since I used this bridle and all I can say is I rode him with kid gloves. But he got back to winning with it.If it was a big pen he could easily daylight the field if he nailed his first turn.
He'll run through a quick stop |
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | Dreamingofcans - 2016-05-10 3:36 PM
uno-dos-tres! - 2016-05-10 3:33 PM
I like fast horses, its an important attribute in a barrel horse for me. A few of my horses have had SI's in the 'teens. I had one several years back that needed a quick stop to remind him of set and turn at the first. It worked wonders. It had been many years since I used this bridle and all I can say is I rode him with kid gloves. But he got back to winning with it.If it was a big pen he could easily daylight the field if he nailed his first turn.
He'll run through a quick stop
I thought u said he ran through a Stop N Turn? That's totally different than a quick stop. They work way different. I had a horse that ran thru a stop n turn but he would rate w\a quick stop. But u can't just throw it on them & expect it to work. U have to teach them to give to it. Also, it's a bump & release headgear. U can't take hold of them hard& not release or they will get mad. They work, but u gotta know how to use them. |
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Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | Dreamingofcans - 2016-05-10 3:25 PM MS2011 - 2016-05-10 3:14 PM Dreamingofcans - 2016-05-10 1:28 PM MS2011 - 2016-05-10 1:13 PM Dreamingofcans - 2016-05-10 11:52 AM I've tried going from the alley and just started moving him closer up. Last night at the jackpot we were high loping to the first and he still didn't want to rate and went a stride past the first. He just doesn't even think of turning it no matter how much slow work and schooling we do. If you're only high loping and he still doesn't want to turn it - I'd look at reasons why. How seasoned is this horse? How long has he been blowing the first barrel? What kind of slow work have you been doing with him? Does he turn the first at home?
Do you have any videos?
He's not seasoned at all.
at home I work on speed transitions - I pick the same spot every time as our rate point. I work on keeping his hip in. I can cruise him through at home and he works. I cruise him through during one expo and he works and then I take him through slow again. It's only in the open. I don't get nervous, but I'm not sure if he just knows he's about to run?? I don't do anything different. I don't rubber band my feet or make sure my over and under is positioned right so there's no cues to tell him we're about to make a run.
It's got to be something very subtle. Do you have someone close that you could get to ride him at a couple of jackpots? See if they have any different luck? |
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Veteran
Posts: 264
| I have a horse who is similar, he is young mentally and doesn't give the option of slow lope. Would blow by the first barrel and suck up the other 2. The longer the score the worse his first would be. Finally after walking and trotting myself to death I was venting to someone who watched a run and noticed I held him running in because I already new he was going to blow by.
We took off his racing bit and threw him in a short shanked jr cow horse. The goal was no contact WHATSOEVER at every speed, only body language. The moment he broke gate we hit the breaks and backed until he was soft. Letting him haul butt in with a loose rein was not only hard but scary!
Maaaaaaaany time onlys and tears, a couple weeks later he inhaled his first and I dang near flew off.
It can be done! I would suggest recording and either posting here or sharing with a few friends. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 974
Location: USA | dianeguinn - 2016-05-10 3:43 PM Dreamingofcans - 2016-05-10 3:36 PM uno-dos-tres! - 2016-05-10 3:33 PM I like fast horses, its an important attribute in a barrel horse for me. A few of my horses have had SI's in the 'teens. I had one several years back that needed a quick stop to remind him of set and turn at the first. It worked wonders. It had been many years since I used this bridle and all I can say is I rode him with kid gloves. But he got back to winning with it.If it was a big pen he could easily daylight the field if he nailed his first turn. He'll run through a quick stop I thought u said he ran through a Stop N Turn? That's totally different than a quick stop. They work way different. I had a horse that ran thru a stop n turn but he would rate w\a quick stop. But u can't just throw it on them & expect it to work. U have to teach them to give to it. Also, it's a bump & release headgear. U can't take hold of them hard& not release or they will get mad. They work, but u gotta know how to use them.
That's what I meant!! Sorry... I'm at work and wasn't thinking straight. It's a stop n turn |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | Dreamingofcans - 2016-05-10 5:38 PM
dianeguinn - 2016-05-10 3:43 PM Dreamingofcans - 2016-05-10 3:36 PM uno-dos-tres! - 2016-05-10 3:33 PM I like fast horses, its an important attribute in a barrel horse for me. A few of my horses have had SI's in the 'teens. I had one several years back that needed a quick stop to remind him of set and turn at the first. It worked wonders. It had been many years since I used this bridle and all I can say is I rode him with kid gloves. But he got back to winning with it.If it was a big pen he could easily daylight the field if he nailed his first turn. He'll run through a quick stop I thought u said he ran through a Stop N Turn? That's totally different than a quick stop. They work way different. I had a horse that ran thru a stop n turn but he would rate w\a quick stop. But u can't just throw it on them & expect it to work. U have to teach them to give to it. Also, it's a bump & release headgear. U can't take hold of them hard& not release or they will get mad. They work, but u gotta know how to use them.
Looks like you've ruled out any swinging leg lameness. But, I want you to think about saddle fit and have it checked and horses that have ulcers or bleeding will shank the first turn due to their anxiety. A BAL is the most definitive diagnosis for bleeding and scoping for gastric ulcers.
Get with an old timer that's used a quick stop to show you how to finesse the horse.
I had a friend having some issues getting her horse pulled up after her run. I had her run in a quick stop for three to four runs and her regular bridle. It worked wonders for that horse and I was relieved that this wonderful barrel racer 80 years young still had it in her to be taking our 2D $ on a regular basis, not get hurt.
I don't like to use gimmicks, but the quick stop is a tool that has stayed in my bag of tricks of the trade and been pulled out once in a blue moon. Just be very good with your hands! |
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 Peat and Repeat
Posts: 2773
Location: IN MY OWN LITTLE WORLD AT LEAST THEY KNOW ME HERE | What do you have in his mouth? |
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