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 Regular
Posts: 84
| I only get geldings. I haven't had good like with mares. |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
  
Location: South Central Florida | rockymountainranch71 - 2016-07-28 12:14 PM thank you everybody for answering me. I've been trying to decide weather or not to spend the few thousand on a specifically bred speed barrel horse. The one I have now is just your classic cow line, such as san peppy but has given me more confidence then any horse I've ever had when it comes to barrels. He is a push style and lets me choose the speed. Right now we run a 17.10 and still gaining speed. I had a speed bred mare dash for cash but ended up selling her. I will admit her speed scared me. She started running there was no stopping her. She was a 1-d 2-d horse. I don't want to waste my money and end up in the same problem. just trying decide which way to go. thank you again. 
Cow bred does not mean the same thing as not registered. Lots of registered cow lines do great in the barrel pen.
I have seen both win, but way more registered horses win than non registered. WAY more.
For a first horse, kids horse, or a confidance builder what ever is proven is great. Had several great non registered horses. But if I buy a prospect, I'll spend the extra even for local stuff.
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 Expert
Posts: 2128
| Papers are only a tool. They tell you what your horses ancestors were and what they did so you have a good idea of the potential for a certain dicipline. THATS IT. NO GUARANTEES. Your chances of having a great barrel horse are higher if both of its parents were great barrel horses. Sometimes you can breed the best sire to the best mare and get a dud with a great set of papers. It happens. Of course they help with resale value, but at the end of the day a horse is what it is. A Dash Ta Fame 1D gelding and a Grade 1D gelding are both accomplishing the same thing. However you most likely paid a lot more for the DTF because the probability of him being a great horse was much higher.
And to answer the OPs question. Yes cow lines can go in there and get the money. It happens regularly.
Edited by scwebster 2016-07-28 12:51 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 1612
 
Location: Cocoa, Florida | I think you have better chances getting one that's bred to run and turn, but like someone else said, confirmation is also very important, depending on what you're looking for in a barrel horse, but I think longevity is important, something that will hold up in the long run. Now with that being said, the best horse I have is working cowhorse/reining and lots of foundation and old school running. But what's most important about her is her HEART. They have to want it as bad as we do! That's what makes a great barrel horse.
I'd rather have a horse with good confirmation, bone, feet and especially heart then something that says it should be good on paper. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1526
Location: Texas | Yes |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 915
Location: SE KS | rockymountainranch71 - 2016-07-28 11:14 AM
thank you everybody for answering me. I've been trying to decide weather or not to spend the few thousand on a specifically bred speed barrel horse. The one I have now is just your classic cow line, such as san peppy but has given me more confidence then any horse I've ever had when it comes to barrels. He is a push style and lets me choose the speed. Right now we run a 17.10 and still gaining speed. I had a speed bred mare dash for cash but ended up selling her. I will admit her speed scared me. She started running there was no stopping her. She was a 1-d 2-d horse. I don't want to waste my money and end up in the same problem. just trying decide which way to go. thank you again.
After reading this statement, here is my two cents!!!
Let me start by saying I don't "like to go that fast"!!! So buying a 1D horse is not something I'm gonna go out and do, however, I have a gelding that "seems" to have more potential than I will be comfortable with needing!! As he has matured he is getting better & faster on the barrels, we went from being 4-5D one to 2 years ago to this spring a 2D buckle, I have gotten more confidence in him as we compete together.
Could this be your situation, as you & your horse work together will you become more competitive as a team? |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 679
Location: The Republic of Texas | I have had both, and even bred a auction mare when I was younger, but she had exceptional conformation and a brain to go with it. Bred her with papered studs and all her babies were easy to train and did really well, never had a problem selling them. That being said, if I buy unpappered they have to be correct and show real heart. I personally believe it just depends on the horse in question. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12842
| If pedigree does not matter why don't you see more Highbrow Cat horses on the track or First Down Dash horses in the cutting pen? Just a thought |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
| While I prefer certain bloodlines, I also know for every DTF(using as an example) success story there are a 100 that didn't make it. There are multiple variables that make up a 1D or rodeo winning horses. I think some people look harder at the papers than they do the actual horse. JMO |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | Honestly it sounds like you are most concerned with the style of the horse than the papers. You want a push style where you can control their speed. I would look for that more than papers in your cases |
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Expert
Posts: 1956
Location: Ky | On a grown trained horse it matters what they can do, not what's on paper. On a prospect it matters a great deal in improving your odds of it making what you want it to be.
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  Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | Ready and willing v's plug. It makes a difference. Local any thing goes .if you want the NFR. Then you want RUN in a pedigree . If you know the horse's breeding papers won't make up for it unless your after re-sale market. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1430
Location: Montana | Yes. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | If they have good conformation I would like to see a good set of papers on them, but if papers arent all that great but good conformation, I would not pass because the papers were not elite.  |
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 Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | rockymountainranch71 - 2016-07-28 11:14 AM thank you everybody for answering me. I've been trying to decide weather or not to spend the few thousand on a specifically bred speed barrel horse. The one I have now is just your classic cow line, such as san peppy but has given me more confidence then any horse I've ever had when it comes to barrels. He is a push style and lets me choose the speed. Right now we run a 17.10 and still gaining speed. I had a speed bred mare dash for cash but ended up selling her. I will admit her speed scared me. She started running there was no stopping her. She was a 1-d 2-d horse. I don't want to waste my money and end up in the same problem. just trying decide which way to go. thank you again.
After reading your post, I think you already have your answer. You are mounted on a horse that gives you confidence and you say that it is gaining speed. IMO, you would be wasting your money to buy a another horse.....just for the "pedigree" ....And I have seen lots of cutting bred horses that will out turn and out run MANY race bred...... |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| iloveequine40 - 2016-07-30 7:51 AM
While I prefer certain bloodlines, I also know for every DTF(using as an example) success story there are a 100 that didn't make it. There are multiple variables that make up a 1D or rodeo winning horses. I think some people look harder at the papers than they do the actual horse. JMO
Yes there are 100's of horses that don't make it.
But is it because they ended up in the wrong hands, wrong trainer, wrong farrier, wrong vet? |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | For what I do, papers matter. But, for what my mom does, they don't. I had to find the right individual for my mom- a safe, smaller horse that was willing and athletic, but not hot or on the muscle. Ended up with a nice little cow bred mare, that has plenty of talent and ability but not bred to be a BARREL HORSE. So honestly, my only requirement when looking for my mom a horse was that it was registered, not a certain bloodline.
For our barrel babies, pedigree matters a lot. People want to take the gamble on the futurities with babies that are bred to run at that level. Not saying you have to have that pedigree to run, but it puts the odds in your favor.
We have three weanlings this year. Two of them are by popular barrel stallions out of popular broodmare lines. The third one was a surprise (mare was pregnant when we bought her unbeknownst to anyone) and is out my mom's mare (who is bred pretty well for a working cowhides apparently) by some little bay colt (now gelding). Because her sire was a live cover baby, by accident as well, no one DNAed him.So when it all got down to registering our filly, he had to be DNAed and it came up that he didn't match his own papers. So long story short, she's probably not getting registered. She is the biggest foal of the crop, looks phenomenal, and you wouldn't be able to pick her out as being the "oops." However, she's worth a fraction of what the other two are, and has had very little interest in her, all because she's grade. Once she's old enough to prove herself as a riding or competing horse, she will probably be worth a bit more. But at her age, she's SOL. |
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Location: Illinois | Yes. |
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Expert
Posts: 2531
Location: WI | scwebster - 2016-07-28 12:49 PM Papers are only a tool. They tell you what your horses ancestors were and what they did so you have a good idea of the potential for a certain dicipline. THATS IT. NO GUARANTEES. Your chances of having a great barrel horse are higher if both of its parents were great barrel horses. Sometimes you can breed the best sire to the best mare and get a dud with a great set of papers. It happens. Of course they help with resale value, but at the end of the day a horse is what it is. A Dash Ta Fame 1D gelding and a Grade 1D gelding are both accomplishing the same thing. However you most likely paid a lot more for the DTF because the probability of him being a great horse was much higher.
And to answer the OPs question. Yes cow lines can go in there and get the money. It happens regularly.
Yes, but to that person that made that grade 1D horse, how many other grade horses did they go through before they got the 1D one? Seasoning one takes as much money on a grade horse as it does on a barrel bred horse and in my experience that is where the biggest chunk of money goes - not to the purchase. |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| streakysox - 2016-07-30 1:38 AM
If pedigree does not matter why don't you see more Highbrow Cat horses on the track or First Down Dash horses in the cutting pen? Just a thought
I am kind of confused by your comment... What is your idea barrel bloodlines? Because I do agree with you that horses are either cowbred or racebred but there are not many bloodlines that are "barrel bred." They usually come from a combo. FWF and FG are probably two of the most "Barrel Blood" I can think of. Both of those go back to a lot of foundations, cow type bloodlines.
I am merely curious, not intended to be snarky  |
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