|
|
 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
   
Location: Texas | Bear - 2016-09-06 10:37 AM
workerbee - 2016-09-06 10:20 AM
I see what ya'll are saying about her being a daughter of Frenchmans Guy. But in my eyes, pedigree is just one thing you look at when buying a prospect. She is not a prospect she is a solid 3D horse. I think the prices for horses has gone crazy.
Why do you say she's not a prospect? I'm only asking because my idea of a "prospect" may differ from yours. Not a futurity prospect, maybe.
I wouldn't say at this point she is a "prospect" either, but she's definitely by no means finished. So I would also hesitate to call her a solid 3D horse. She is only 5, which means at the most she hasn't run a full two years yet. I don't know a thing about who trained her or who is running her now, and if they are even asking her for everything she has yet. This horse is still in that window where she could either speed up and make a 1D horse, or not.. but, she's young enough that its totally reasonable for her to speed up. Now, if she were 7 years old and had been running since 4, and is still in the 3D, at that point I think her value would be overpriced.. but she's got a lot going for her still.
Bear I was just quoting to get the original quote in the quotes, LOL. I agree with you, she's no futurity prospect anymore but she's got a lot to give and isn't finished. | |
| | |
 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
Location: Oklahoma | Own daughter of FG out of a DTF daughter? She'd probably be worth pretty close to that if she WASN'T running. And a chocolate pally to boot? Like everyone else said, you're paying for pedigree rather than where she clocks. | |
| | |
"Heck's Coming With Me"
Posts: 10797
Location: Kansas | Bear - 2016-09-06 10:39 AM Frodo - 2016-09-06 5:49 AM Depends on how much money you have and if you like risk. If she's running 3D at five, she'll probably be running 3D at ten. That's a lot of money.
Pretty sweeping generalization. I disagree.
$30K is a year's salary for many people. Like I said is it worth the risk for a 3D horse that's "pretty."
| |
| | |
 I'm Cooler Offline
Posts: 6387
Location: Pacific Northwest | To start with, no, I personally would not pay $30k for her, because I can't afford it.
But I don't think its outrageous.
1) She's bred amazing. She could be a broodmare.
2) She's only 5. I wouldn't call her a "solid 3D" horse. To me that implies the horse has been running for several years and that's where it clocks. She's a baby. She's still learning to run. I bought a mare that at 12 years old had never clocked out of the 3D and all it took was some tweaking and getting some soreness problems under control and I got her into the 2D and occasionally 1D. I would not assume that a 5 year old had reached their full potential.
Now on that note, I know someone that spent $30k on a horse that was clocking in the 3D and had "potential". The horse was fairly young, maybe 6. Him and the rider never clicked and his confidence was completely shot and never recovered. She sold him and I think he's a rope horse now. Had he gone to someone different, his story might have been different too. | |
| | |
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 878
Location: "...way down south in the Everglades..." | I wouldn't pay it myself because it's waaay out of any horse budget I have...but I totally believe someone will buy her for at least very close to that. She's young, great bloodlines, and IMO highly likely to move up in D's. I'm running a 5 year old that was broke very good, but hadn't been entered and was only started on a pattern when I got her a year ago. I started running her for the first time fall of her 4 year old year. Those are the times she's clocking and she absolutely has potential to clock much, much better. So depends how long this mare has been running and depends on the jockey/trainer. IMO 5 is very young and unless heavily futuritied, likely has plenty of future improvement. | |
| | |
"Heck's Coming With Me"
Posts: 10797
Location: Kansas | The $30K "range" should buy you a wonderful solid 1D horse. The barrel racers with deep pockets can afford the great ones which make people think you have to spend megabucks to buy a good horse but it just isn't so.
Does being a Frenchman's Guy automatically make her fast?
Edited by Frodo 2016-09-06 1:17 PM
| |
| | |
You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | Frodo - 2016-09-06 1:16 PM
The $30K "range" should buy you a wonderful solid 1D horse. The barrel racers with deep pockets can afford the great ones which make people think you have to spend megabucks to buy a good horse but it just isn't so.
Does being a Frenchman's Guy automatically make her fast?
I'm the first to jump on a steal of a deal. I've gotten some nice horses for some really good prices. However, they weren't 5 year old direct offspring of stallions who lead the national ranks for money earners year to year. They clock and they run and they're worth a lot more than what I got them for. But, they weren't designer bred for barrels. You're paying for the name when you buy horses like this. It doesn't mean all horses have to be this expensive. But there was a lot of money put in to get this horse. And for some people, thats what they want. | |
| | |
 Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | rodeomom3 - 2016-09-06 5:55 AM
Frodo - 2016-09-06 5:49 AM Depends on how much money you have and if you like risk. Â If she's running 3D at five, she'll probably be running 3D at ten. Â That's a lot of money.
Â
 Not necessarily true, depends on the rider.  I have seen many, many horses go from a lower D to a tough 1D horse with the right rider.  I have also seen the reverse many times.  My horses were all top of the 1D with my girls, 3D with me.Â
I sold a solid 3/4D GELDING For 5 grand, and 3.4D in tough tough competition and super shows. The 10 year old I sold him to ran a 1D time at youth world on him.
I'm 180 she's less then 80lbs, and even when she's my age she will never be a big girl. I've seen a lot of horses do better with different riders not just a weight difference but some horses mature later too!
| |
| | |
 Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Frodo - 2016-09-06 1:16 PM The $30K "range" should buy you a wonderful solid 1D horse. The barrel racers with deep pockets can afford the great ones which make people think you have to spend megabucks to buy a good horse but it just isn't so.
Does being a Frenchman's Guy automatically make her fast?
I dont know of any "Wonderful solid 1D horse" for sale in the $30k range that isnt knocking on retirements door by age or has major issues. Either mentally, or physically. Now if this was a gelding, I would have to think long and hard. But a FG daughter is a whole different ball game. | |
| | |
Veteran
Posts: 276
| Cracks me up that some will give 30, 40, 50+ thousand for a pickup that's gonna depreciate its value guaranteed the day you turn the key, but they think its crazy to give good money for a really nice horse like this, who has a great chance of going up in value if anything. Don't get me wrong, I don't spend a fraction of that on horses, but I dang sure understand why they cost that much and I don't judge anyone who does! Sometimes I think I spend the same amount over the years making them, but sometimes I don't end up with one that I even like after all the sweat and tears! | |
| | |
 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| ThreeCorners - 2016-09-06 1:43 PM Frodo - 2016-09-06 1:16 PM The $30K "range" should buy you a wonderful solid 1D horse. The barrel racers with deep pockets can afford the great ones which make people think you have to spend megabucks to buy a good horse but it just isn't so.
Does being a Frenchman's Guy automatically make her fast? I dont know of any "Wonderful solid 1D horse" for sale in the $30k range that isnt knocking on retirements door by age or has major issues. Either mentally, or physically. Now if this was a gelding, I would have to think long and hard. But a FG daughter is a whole different ball game.
Exactly, the current "3D status" as a 5 year old may not be very telling. How long has the horse been running, is it a 1D rider on her, is she being brought along nice and slow, lots of factors play into what D a young horse lands. The breeding is the why the asking price is what it is, color and breeding means value outside the pen too. | |
| | |
Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | rodeomom3 - 2016-09-06 1:57 PM
ThreeCorners - 2016-09-06 1:43 PM Frodo - 2016-09-06 1:16 PM The $30K "range" should buy you a wonderful solid 1D horse. The barrel racers with deep pockets can afford the great ones which make people think you have to spend megabucks to buy a good horse but it just isn't so.
Does being a Frenchman's Guy automatically make her fast? I dont know of any "Wonderful solid 1D horse" for sale in the $30k range that isnt knocking on retirements door by age or has major issues. Either mentally, or physically.  Now if this was a gelding, I would have to think long and hard. But a FG daughter is a whole different ball game.
You also have to rule out what area or who the 3D competition is. I know some people who ran 3D down here, moved north and now run 1D - just for example. | |
| | |
Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Have you looked at the Fulton sales results from last week to see what they sold for out of FG daughters?Thats just an examply. Breed smart and can you say Cha Ching?!! Wouldnt you love to flush a embryo, keep running that mare and cash in each year selling those foals? By those prices from Fultons, 3 foals ( or possibly less) would totally pay for the breedings and flushings AND pay for that mare and by then she's only 8 or 9. | |
| | |
 Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | classicpotatochip - 2016-09-06 11:21 AM Frodo - 2016-09-06 5:49 AM Depends on how much money you have and if you like risk. If she's running 3D at five, she'll probably be running 3D at ten. That's a lot of money.
?? Tell mine we're doing it wrong. I couldn't disagree more.
^^^^ THIS …..too many factors to make a statement that she will always be in the 3D (that IS only 1 second off of winning times in most places). She is young…..she may not be "seasoned" .....she hits the 2D periodically…. she could really improve with more finesse and rider…….she is ONLY five .... need I go on....
The only thing true in her statement is that is a lot of money. However, even that being said, with that breeding, a person could make that money back with babies. | |
| | |
 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | A lot of people would pay this and immediately throw her out to pasture to make babies. She would pay for herself completely in 3-4 years and everything after that is profit and probably MORE profit than you would make if you kept running her. Or keep running her, get her solid, and pull embryos. You will still make your money back. 30k is perfectly reasonable. The fact that she is yellow, has ovaries, and is out of one of the top 3 barrel stallions top and bottom guarantees her value. Her value would only drop if she could be shown to not be breeding sound. Young mares are a whole different ball game on value than geldings. Because if geldings get hurt, they are done. But mares can be broodies and pedigree and color sells. | |
| | |
Elite Veteran
Posts: 863
| I was wrong, the mare is a 6yr old :) Anyways wow I am surprised at the response to my post, makes it very interesting on everyone's opinion! She was started on the pattern as a 4yr old, has had extensive ground work prior and the people really took their time with her. However, she wasn't going to make a futurity colt, as the trainer/owner has daughters of DTF and others that came on alot quicker on the pattern, meaning also they were fast. So her 5yr old year she was basically hauled here and there, not every weekend for sure. I love how good minded this mare is, and she's hauled alone, and never gets rattled it seems no matter what barrel race I've seen her at.
Regarding the people that say flush embryos in the future, isn't this a process a good vet handles and you would need to raise the recipient mare then to foal? Just curious and thanks | |
| | |
Elite Veteran
Posts: 863
| Also, yes she's out of a daughter of DTF, but that mare (her dam) was only raced on the track, not a proven barrel money winner | |
| | |
Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Wild1 - 2016-09-06 4:07 PM
I was wrong, the mare is a 6yr old :) Anyways wow I am surprised at the response to my post, makes it very interesting on everyone's opinion! She was started on the pattern as a 4yr old, has had extensive ground work prior and the people really took their time with her. However, she wasn't going to make a futurity colt, as the trainer/owner has daughters of DTF and others that came on alot quicker on the pattern, meaning also they were fast. So her 5yr old year she was basically hauled here and there, not every weekend for sure. I love how good minded this mare is, and she's hauled alone, and never gets rattled it seems no matter what barrel race I've seen her at.
Regarding the people that say flush embryos in the future, isn't this a process a good vet handles and you would need to raise the recipient mare then to foal? Just curious and thanks
Check out Outback stallion station. All their costs are outlined on flushing and the recipient mares. Basically, IF all goes right it's about $3500 all in including the recipient mare. Not counting your breeding ( stud & shipping) fee's. You pick the recipient mare up after confirmed in foal at 35 days and keep her to raise your foal until nov. of weaning. Then return the recipient mare. Now you also have to factor in the breeding fee's because you cant breed to $1000 stud fee horse and expect to make any real money. You will have to breed to the very top stallions in the nation to ensure high demand. So yes, you will look at another roughly $10,000 - $15,000 to get that foal on the ground but when those foals are worth $20,000 or more, then that mare at $30,000 is looking a lot cheaper now isn't she. | |
| | |
 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| ThreeCorners - 2016-09-06 7:45 PM
Wild1 - 2016-09-06 4:07 PM
I was wrong, the mare is a 6yr old :) Anyways wow I am surprised at the response to my post, makes it very interesting on everyone's opinion! She was started on the pattern as a 4yr old, has had extensive ground work prior and the people really took their time with her. However, she wasn't going to make a futurity colt, as the trainer/owner has daughters of DTF and others that came on alot quicker on the pattern, meaning also they were fast. So her 5yr old year she was basically hauled here and there, not every weekend for sure. I love how good minded this mare is, and she's hauled alone, and never gets rattled it seems no matter what barrel race I've seen her at.
Regarding the people that say flush embryos in the future, isn't this a process a good vet handles and you would need to raise the recipient mare then to foal? Just curious and thanks
Check out Outback stallion station. All their costs are outlined on flushing and the recipient mares. Basically, IF all goes right it's about $3500 all in including the recipient mare. Not counting your breeding ( stud & shipping ) fee's. You pick the recipient mare up after confirmed in foal at 35 days and keep her to raise your foal until nov. of weaning. Then return the recipient mare. Now you also have to factor in the breeding fee's because you cant breed to $1000 stud fee horse and expect to make any real money. You will have to breed to the very top stallions in the nation to ensure high demand. So yes, you will look at another roughly $10,000 - $15,000 to get that foal on the ground but when those foals are worth $20,000 or more, then that mare at $30,000 is looking a lot cheaper now isn't she.
Exactly. Then you have to expense keeping said little creature alive, then getting it broke to ride, shoeing, vetting, feeding, hauling. Don't forget to count your own training worth, if you're doing it really right, worth at least $750-1000.
At that point, you quit trying to break even and take your $30,000 and run! | |
| | |
 More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | RnRJack - 2016-09-06 2:01 PM rodeomom3 - 2016-09-06 1:57 PM ThreeCorners - 2016-09-06 1:43 PM Frodo - 2016-09-06 1:16 PM The $30K "range" should buy you a wonderful solid 1D horse. The barrel racers with deep pockets can afford the great ones which make people think you have to spend megabucks to buy a good horse but it just isn't so.
Does being a Frenchman's Guy automatically make her fast? I dont know of any "Wonderful solid 1D horse" for sale in the $30k range that isnt knocking on retirements door by age or has major issues. Either mentally, or physically. Now if this was a gelding, I would have to think long and hard. But a FG daughter is a whole different ball game. You also have to rule out what area or who the 3D competition is. I know some people who ran 3D down here, moved north and now run 1D - just for example.
OMG are you really going to start that crap? | |
| |
| |
Folks on-line