|
|
I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
  
| Yep they are to blame. That feed is supposed to be safe for horses, cattle, sheep, etc. Typically, it is not a quality feed since it is safe to feed to different species. That feed was not supposed to have the ionosphores in it. It is for all livestock, so that means ruminants and nonruminants. If the ionosphores are not in the ingredients, then it is not supposed to be in the feed. They either did a sloppy job of cleaning out or it was mistakenly added.
|
|
| |
|
 1D Lawn Mower
Posts: 1417
Location: Southeast, Texas |
Now... I don't agree here. Even if this is never something I would choose to feed in my barn, it IS advertised as safe for horses. So, yes.. The company is at fault if the accusation is proven. And, SC mare and foal? I HAVE used that, and it's being claimed as tainted as well. We currently feed Nutrena, and I'm quite concerned.
The description of Wrangler 12% Pellets: Wrangler 12 All Stock Pellet by Nutrena was developed with the entire barn in mind. Designed for all adult maintenance horses, and all classes of beef cattle, sheep and goats, it offers a great blend of value and versatility when combined with a hay or pasture feeding program. Also available as a sweet feed. |
|
| |
|
 Hugs to You
Posts: 7550
 
Location: In The Land of Cotton |
No - it is labeled for horses.
Use this livestock feed by WRANGLER™ to feed a wide variety of farm animals. This 12 pellet livestock feed is an added supplemental food for horses, goats, cattle and sheep that are pasture and hay feed. See packaging for specific feeding rates per livestock.
Specifications - WRANGLER™ 12 Pellet livestock feed
- Dietary supplement for horses, cattle, goats and sheep
- Feed as directed
- As with any new product, introduce slowly over 7 to 10 days
Nutrient Analysis - Crude protein: Min 12.0 percent
- Crude Fat: Min 2.5 percent
- Crude Fiber: Max 30.0 percent
- Calcium: Min 1.4 percent, Max 1.9 percent
- Phosphorus: Min 0.4 percent
- Salt: Min 1.0 percent, Max 1.5 percent
- Potassium: Min 0.6 percent
- Copper: Min 5 PPM, Max 15 PPM
- Zinc: Min 80 PPM
- Selenium: Min 0.1 PPM
- Vitamin A: Min 3,000 IU/lb.
|
|
| |
|
Miracle in the Making
Posts: 4013
|
the feed says its safe key word safe for horses on the package |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | dashnlotti - 2016-10-27 8:56 AM
3canstorun - 2016-10-27 8:19 AM
True Nate - that is why when a company who produces medicated feeds say their stuff is safe and never run on the same line, isn't' in the vacinity etc., etc., you should not believe them. Cross contamination happens. And animals die.
Exactly.
Anytime I have mentioned to people the reason I stopped feeding or won't feed certain brands, they stop listening. They don't want to hear it.
I did finally get my mom to switch hers from Nutrena. And if someone asks what she feed and asks why she swapped, shell tell them bc the feed wasn't safe. And then they tune out...
I don't get it.
I know so many people who just keep feeding it bc "Well I've never had any issues."
I do feel bad for the owners' losses, and for the suffering animals. But at the same time I'm angry that we even have to deal with this, and that many are deaf to it bc it hasn't affected them.
But I am sure that my ponies are safe and taken care of and that's all I can do.
This!!! This just baffles me to no end!
About 1-1.5 years ago a client I had just started training for switched her horse to ADM, 6 weeks later he died. When I found out I tried to talk to her about it (after giving her a couple of weeks of course). I told her everything I had learned about ADM and ionophores and that it wasn't safe to feed.
She asked me to send her some research, some articles to read about it. I did. She totally blew it off. She's still feeding ADM. Thinks the horse just died from colic.
I was sick about it! But everyone I talk to is the same way. Their mentality is that if thousands of horses a year are eating a brand of feed every single day and only a few die each year, then it must not be the feed company. But they just don't understand that way more are dying than just a few, they are just being misdiagnosed!
|
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | This is why I feed whole oats, I'm scared of commercial feeds!
I hope the other horse makes it, any updates? |
|
| |
|
I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| I am afraid to feed whole oats in case they use them to clean out the system after making the medicated feeds.  |
|
| |
|
 Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | I'm prefacing my post, stating that I am not a Nutrena fan because of their history of problems. But I do feel that a few things need cleared up for those that are making assumptions about feed in general. Disclaimer: this is not a defense for any of the issues at hand, merely some education for those that do not know...
In general, feeds that are labeled as "all stock" or "safe for all classes of livestock" including horses, merely means that they are formulated to be such. They are more than likely produced in facilities that also produce and bag medicated feeds. There are guidelines in place and regulations for flushing and cleaning the lines out. But that's all they are. There are limited testing regulations in place (mostly just generalized batch testing). Most facilities do not have the resources (equipment and staff) to test inbound ingredients from each and every truck, beyond the initial probe that is taken on the scale. There are no regulations for trucks that say they HAVE to wash out their trucks between loads--bulk haulers should do a "flush" with another feed after a medicated load, before hauling a horse feed, but it's not regulated or tested. There are no guarantees of zero presence of potential toxins. It's not possible. Even on different lines within the same facilities it's just not 100% possible. It takes less than 1 gram of monensin to kill a 1200# horse.
The only way to safeguard yourself and your horses is to feed a product from a 100% horse safe facility that does not share staff with a non-horse facility. Period.
Also, to those that claim you feed oats or your own mix or blah blah blah to keep this from happening...where are your oats or ingredients sourced from? Where were they bagged. I've worked for "all species" companies and we bagged single ingredients...on the same lines (after regulated flushes) that the medicated feeds were bagged on. There are safe products out there, don't mis-read me. But do you know where yours came from?
Edited by RockinGR 2016-10-27 11:23 AM
|
|
| |
|
 pressure dripper
Posts: 8696
Location: the end of the rainbow | GLP - 2016-10-27 9:11 AM
I am afraid to feed whole oats in case they use them to clean out the system after making the medicated feeds.
This. I am unable to find oats locally that are clean (most of them are very dusty and the bags have bits and pieces of other feeds in them)and from an iontophoresis free mill so I won't chance it. |
|
| |
|
 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | GLP - 2016-10-27 11:11 AM I am afraid to feed whole oats in case they use them to clean out the system after making the medicated feeds.
I won't buy oats from the feed store anymore, but I can get them from the seed cleaner that are very clean and decent quality with no chance of contamination. They're not tagged as feed, they're bagged for food plots. |
|
| |
|
Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:21 AM I'm prefacing my post, stating that I am not a Nutrena fan because of their history of problems. But I do feel that a few things need cleared up for those that are making assumptions about feed in general. Disclaimer: this is not a defense for any of the issues at hand, merely some education for those that do not know... In general, feeds that are labeled as "all stock" or "safe for all classes of livestock" including horses, merely means that they are formulated to be such. They are more than likely produced in facilities that also produce and bag medicated feeds. There are guidelines in place and regulations for flushing and cleaning the lines out. But that's all they are. There are limited testing regulations in place (mostly just generalized batch testing). Most facilities do not have the resources (equipment and staff) to test inbound ingredients from each and every truck, beyond the initial probe that is taken on the scale. There are no regulations for trucks that say they HAVE to wash out their trucks between loads--bulk haulers should do a "flush" with another feed after a medicated load, before hauling a horse feed, but it's not regulated or tested. There are no guarantees of zero presence of potential toxins. It's not possible. Even on different lines within the same facilities it's just not 100% possible. It takes less than 1 gram of monensin to kill a 1200# horse. The only way to safeguard yourself and your horses is to feed a product from a 100% horse safe facility that does not share staff with a non-horse facility. Period. Also, to those that claim you feed oats or your own mix or blah blah blah to keep this from happening...where are your oats or ingredients sourced from? Where were they bagged. I've worked for "all species" companies and we bagged single ingredients...on the same lines (after regulated flushes) that the medicated feeds were bagged on. There are safe products out there, don't mis-read me. But do you know where yours came from?
The feed companies should not be labeling these feeds for horses if there's a chance for contamination. |
|
| |
|
Hugs to You
Posts: 7550
Location: In The Land of Cotton | GLP - 2016-10-27 12:11 PM I am afraid to feed whole oats in case they use them to clean out the system after making the medicated feeds.
I get my oats from the farmer. Whom is my vet. |
|
| |
|
 Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | BamaCanChaser - 2016-10-27 10:42 AM
dashnlotti - 2016-10-27 8:56 AM
3canstorun - 2016-10-27 8:19 AM
True Nate - that is why when a company who produces medicated feeds say their stuff is safe and never run on the same line, isn't' in the vacinity etc., etc., you should not believe them. Cross contamination happens. And animals die.
Exactly.
Anytime I have mentioned to people the reason I stopped feeding or won't feed certain brands, they stop listening. They don't want to hear it.
I did finally get my mom to switch hers from Nutrena. And if someone asks what she feed and asks why she swapped, shell tell them bc the feed wasn't safe. And then they tune out...
I don't get it.
I know so many people who just keep feeding it bc "Well I've never had any issues."
I do feel bad for the owners' losses, and for the suffering animals. But at the same time I'm angry that we even have to deal with this, and that many are deaf to it bc it hasn't affected them.
But I am sure that my ponies are safe and taken care of and that's all I can do.
This!!! This just baffles me to no end!
About 1-1.5 years ago a client I had just started training for switched her horse to ADM, 6 weeks later he died. When I found out I tried to talk to her about it (after giving her a couple of weeks of course ). I told her everything I had learned about ADM and ionophores and that it wasn't safe to feed.
She asked me to send her some research, some articles to read about it. I did. She totally blew it off. She's still feeding ADM. Thinks the horse just died from colic.
I was sick about it! But everyone I talk to is the same way. Their mentality is that if thousands of horses a year are eating a brand of feed every single day and only a few die each year, then it must not be the feed company. But they just don't understand that way more are dying than just a few, they are just being misdiagnosed!
I don't get it either. I fed ADM for a long time and loved it and recommended it to so many people--until I found out what happened. I had just bought several bags and was really torn about what to do with them. I finally decided to just take them back to the feed store and switch to Renew Gold. Although I'm sure my horses would have been just fine, I wasn't willing to take any chances.
The argument that "my horses have been eating it for years with no problems" is NOT a valid reason, because those horses that died had been eating it for who knows how long with no issues. It just takes that one bag. |
|
| |
|
Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:29 AM
RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:21 AM I'm prefacing my post, stating that I am not a Nutrena fan because of their history of problems. But I do feel that a few things need cleared up for those that are making assumptions about feed in general. Disclaimer: this is not a defense for any of the issues at hand, merely some education for those that do not know... In general, feeds that are labeled as "all stock" or "safe for all classes of livestock" including horses, merely means that they are formulated to be such. They are more than likely produced in facilities that also produce and bag medicated feeds. There are guidelines in place and regulations for flushing and cleaning the lines out. But that's all they are. There are limited testing regulations in place (mostly just generalized batch testing). Most facilities do not have the resources (equipment and staff) to test inbound ingredients from each and every truck, beyond the initial probe that is taken on the scale. There are no regulations for trucks that say they HAVE to wash out their trucks between loads--bulk haulers should do a "flush" with another feed after a medicated load, before hauling a horse feed, but it's not regulated or tested. There are no guarantees of zero presence of potential toxins. It's not possible. Even on different lines within the same facilities it's just not 100% possible. It takes less than 1 gram of monensin to kill a 1200# horse. The only way to safeguard yourself and your horses is to feed a product from a 100% horse safe facility that does not share staff with a non-horse facility. Period. Also, to those that claim you feed oats or your own mix or blah blah blah to keep this from happening...where are your oats or ingredients sourced from? Where were they bagged. I've worked for "all species" companies and we bagged single ingredients...on the same lines (after regulated flushes) that the medicated feeds were bagged on. There are safe products out there, don't mis-read me. But do you know where yours came from?
The feed companies should not be labeling these feeds for horses if there's a chance for contamination.
It is not against regulation to do so. It can be your opinion that they shouldn't, but they are well within regulation. If it was your way, no local feed mill would ever be able to make up a paying customers custom horse feed for them. |
|
| |
|
I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Please educate me- is it just the ionosphores that are harmful to the horses?
If not, what else should we be looking for?
What are the benefits to feeding cattle ionosphores?
We don't feed them to our cattle nor did we feed them to our show cattle.
 |
|
| |
|
Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:46 AM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:29 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:21 AM I'm prefacing my post, stating that I am not a Nutrena fan because of their history of problems. But I do feel that a few things need cleared up for those that are making assumptions about feed in general. Disclaimer: this is not a defense for any of the issues at hand, merely some education for those that do not know... In general, feeds that are labeled as "all stock" or "safe for all classes of livestock" including horses, merely means that they are formulated to be such. They are more than likely produced in facilities that also produce and bag medicated feeds. There are guidelines in place and regulations for flushing and cleaning the lines out. But that's all they are. There are limited testing regulations in place (mostly just generalized batch testing). Most facilities do not have the resources (equipment and staff) to test inbound ingredients from each and every truck, beyond the initial probe that is taken on the scale. There are no regulations for trucks that say they HAVE to wash out their trucks between loads--bulk haulers should do a "flush" with another feed after a medicated load, before hauling a horse feed, but it's not regulated or tested. There are no guarantees of zero presence of potential toxins. It's not possible. Even on different lines within the same facilities it's just not 100% possible. It takes less than 1 gram of monensin to kill a 1200# horse. The only way to safeguard yourself and your horses is to feed a product from a 100% horse safe facility that does not share staff with a non-horse facility. Period. Also, to those that claim you feed oats or your own mix or blah blah blah to keep this from happening...where are your oats or ingredients sourced from? Where were they bagged. I've worked for "all species" companies and we bagged single ingredients...on the same lines (after regulated flushes) that the medicated feeds were bagged on. There are safe products out there, don't mis-read me. But do you know where yours came from? The feed companies should not be labeling these feeds for horses if there's a chance for contamination. It is not against regulation to do so. It can be your opinion that they shouldn't, but they are well within regulation. If it was your way, no local feed mill would ever be able to make up a paying customers custom horse feed for them.
Safety trumps convenience. |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 2258
| We were sponsored by Nutrena years ago while racing. We ended up giving it up because the horses dropped off so bad and that was on the fancy new performance feed they had at the time. I am now making my own feed, bought a mixer and will buy a small pellet machine as well. My horses are looking great. I had an issue with toxic hay this spring so I can't take any chances with commercial feed at this point as they are still healing. |
|
| |
|
Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | GLP - 2016-10-27 11:53 AM Please educate me- is it just the ionosphores that are harmful to the horses? If not, what else should we be looking for? What are the benefits to feeding cattle ionosphores? We don't feed them to our cattle nor did we feed them to our show cattle.
They think ionophores change the microbial make up of the rumen to be more efficient, thus increase weight gain and/or reduce feed costs. That's the theory on why they work, but I don't think it's known for absolutely sure. And yes, there are other medications to be leery of, but I can't remember the names. One starts with an L. |
|
| |
|
Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:57 AM
RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:46 AM Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 11:29 AM RockinGR - 2016-10-27 11:21 AM I'm prefacing my post, stating that I am not a Nutrena fan because of their history of problems. But I do feel that a few things need cleared up for those that are making assumptions about feed in general. Disclaimer: this is not a defense for any of the issues at hand, merely some education for those that do not know... In general, feeds that are labeled as "all stock" or "safe for all classes of livestock" including horses, merely means that they are formulated to be such. They are more than likely produced in facilities that also produce and bag medicated feeds. There are guidelines in place and regulations for flushing and cleaning the lines out. But that's all they are. There are limited testing regulations in place (mostly just generalized batch testing). Most facilities do not have the resources (equipment and staff) to test inbound ingredients from each and every truck, beyond the initial probe that is taken on the scale. There are no regulations for trucks that say they HAVE to wash out their trucks between loads--bulk haulers should do a "flush" with another feed after a medicated load, before hauling a horse feed, but it's not regulated or tested. There are no guarantees of zero presence of potential toxins. It's not possible. Even on different lines within the same facilities it's just not 100% possible. It takes less than 1 gram of monensin to kill a 1200# horse. The only way to safeguard yourself and your horses is to feed a product from a 100% horse safe facility that does not share staff with a non-horse facility. Period. Also, to those that claim you feed oats or your own mix or blah blah blah to keep this from happening...where are your oats or ingredients sourced from? Where were they bagged. I've worked for "all species" companies and we bagged single ingredients...on the same lines (after regulated flushes) that the medicated feeds were bagged on. There are safe products out there, don't mis-read me. But do you know where yours came from? The feed companies should not be labeling these feeds for horses if there's a chance for contamination. It is not against regulation to do so. It can be your opinion that they shouldn't, but they are well within regulation. If it was your way, no local feed mill would ever be able to make up a paying customers custom horse feed for them.
You can regulate what comes in your barn by being educated about what are safe facilities. You cannot demand that the industry as a whole conform to your standards. You can petition your politicians to propose regulation standards requirements...but now we're getting government more involved and limiting choices. Is that really the direction you want to go rather than just regulating your own choices and patronizing companies that already fall into those lines? |
|
| |
|
I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-27 12:06 PM
GLP - 2016-10-27 11:53 AM Please educate me- is it just the ionosphores that are harmful to the horses? If not, what else should we be looking for? What are the benefits to feeding cattle ionosphores? We don't feed them to our cattle nor did we feed them to our show cattle.
Thank you for the info, I will be researching this more this weekend. |
|
| |
Folks on-line