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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
  
Location: Bastrop, Texas | rodeomom3 - 2017-02-08 10:39 AM
Bear - 2017-02-08 10:27 AM For that matter, what's so bad about GMO feed?
For me it is not about GMO but the added fillers like soy products that are not good for horses.
Does that apply to Cocoa Soya oil? |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| I would not call any oil bad, I prefer flax seed |
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 Too Skinny
Posts: 8009
 
Location: LA Lower Alabama | I too would wonder what was "cleaned out" before my bag was made and would not want to use a bag that had extra ingredients out of the norm. While they state medicated feed is not made in that same plant there could be other issues that the left over corn may be scraping into my bag of feed. |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Bear - 2017-02-08 10:27 AM For that matter, what's so bad about GMO feed?
Absolutely nothing. non-GMO is just marketing woo to cash in on a fad. |
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 Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11511
Location: 31 lengths farms | winwillows - 2017-02-08 10:25 PM
I have responded to the inquiry about pieces of corn in a Renew Gold bag. We use a straight food grade Stabilized Rice Bran flush to clean the transfer pipes in the mill of the mix from another of our feed products that we commonly run prior to a Renew Gold run. All this flush and the first several hundred pounds of Renew Gold is to be discarded prior to the start of bagging Renew Gold. This clearly was from the first several bags (perhaps the first bag) of a 88000 pound RG run that was obviously switched over to start bagging too quickly. A remnant of the end of SRB flush must not have completely cleared the transfer pipe that moves the RG to the bagging equipment.
While certainly not a health risk, and is in fact organic corn from a wonderful non GMO organic poultry product that we make, this is totally unacceptable. To be clear, someone may lose their job over this depending on what the production log reads. We have a zero tolerance standard. I have asked the customer for lot numbers from that bag, and information to provide a refund. Our current lot numbers will actually identify the person who made the flush and bag decisions.
As to Manna Pro. They are a master distributor for us. They own none our company ( The Phoenix Company) or Renew Gold, and have zero involvement in the production of Renew Gold. Manna Pro simply warehouses and delivers the product that we make through their very effecient system designed to do so. Nothing has changed in formulation, ingredient quality, or management. Nor will it.
As always, our ingredients are all non GMO, food grade, ( even those few kernels of corn) and made in the same totally medication free safe mills as they always have been.
It is hard to express the frustration when I see a post like this, and the assumptions that are generated when customers read it. We continue to produce Renew Gold to a higher standard of both ingredient quality and production than virtually any equine feed manufacturer in the US.
So is it being milled at a plant that mills other feeds now? Any medicated feed?
NEVER MIND-just reread your post!!! THANK YOU :-)
Edited by run n rate 2017-02-08 11:36 AM
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Thanks for addressing this. GMO doesn't bother me at all. Medication from medicated feed does. I quit feeding normal processed grains years ago and do feed Renew Gold. |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | rodeomom3 - 2017-02-08 10:39 AM
Bear - 2017-02-08 10:27 AM For that matter, what's so bad about GMO feed?
For me it is not about GMO but the added fillers like soy products that are not good for horses.
Soy is really not bad for horses. Most of the "soy is bad" hype comes from human literature in which women over consume soy (as a replacement for meat) and then have hormonal consequences because of it. However, horses are strict herbivores- they are not like people or dogs or cats- and they must eat plant based proteins. The amino acid requirements of soy are very similar to what horses need.
I've seen this come up where people are stopping soy products for reproductive reasons for what they've seen in people, but horses are just not the same. |
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| casualdust07 - 2017-02-08 12:59 PM rodeomom3 - 2017-02-08 10:39 AM Bear - 2017-02-08 10:27 AM For that matter, what's so bad about GMO feed? For me it is not about GMO but the added fillers like soy products that are not good for horses. Soy is really not bad for horses. Most of the "soy is bad" hype comes from human literature in which women over consume soy (as a replacement for meat ) and then have hormonal consequences because of it. However, horses are strict herbivores- they are not like people or dogs or cats- and they must eat plant based proteins. The amino acid requirements of soy are very similar to what horses need. I've seen this come up where people are stopping soy products for reproductive reasons for what they've seen in people, but horses are just not the same.
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | casualdust07 - 2017-02-08 12:59 PM
rodeomom3 - 2017-02-08 10:39 AM
Bear - 2017-02-08 10:27 AM For that matter, what's so bad about GMO feed?
For me it is not about GMO but the added fillers like soy products that are not good for horses.
Soy is really not bad for horses. Most of the "soy is bad" hype comes from human literature in which women over consume soy (as a replacement for meat ) and then have hormonal consequences because of it. However, horses are strict herbivores- they are not like people or dogs or cats- and they must eat plant based proteins. The amino acid requirements of soy are very similar to what horses need.
I've seen this come up where people are stopping soy products for reproductive reasons for what they've seen in people, but horses are just not the same.
Good point. Thank you, doc! |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | Not to kick up another discussion about GMO vs Non-GMO, but there is a point here that most miss, and a reason that we only use Non-GMO ingredients in every product that we make.
When we buy ingredients, we buy food grade non-GMO ingredients for the way they are handled, stored and separated from other conventional, and mostly GMO, feed ingredients. Being able to certify an ingredient as Non- GMO requires that ingredient to not be mixed in warehouse storage with the same (or any other) ingredient that is "feed grade" and often of lesser quality, purity or aflatoxin level. Storage is not intermixed, so you always know how your ingredients are stored. This is not a scare tactic on my part, but simply a way to insure that a product like ours that has a very extended shelf life compared to conventional feeds is produced with ingredient quality that will insure that shelf life can be reached.
I know many of you on this forum are from farm families. I have grown rice, beans, sunflowers, wheat and seed crops for over 40 years. Those of you who grow crops for food rather than feed know that quality is a big factor in value. If you grow beans and they get rained on before harvest, they get mold on them and move to feed grade. If they are harvested in prime condition they go the food market. For my company, buying Food Grade, Non-GMO ingredients simply means that those ingredients are handled to a better standard than lesser grade ingredients. I am not saying that GMO are necessarily bad. I am simply saying that, in my opinion, I can count on getting a better quality ingredient from my suppliers by formulating the way that we do.
As to who is making money on the GMO deal, Monsanto has made Billions and remains the primary source of test and clinical data concerning any potential negative issues with GMO. The argument can be made either way, and often is. One thing that can't be argued is that most feed grade ingredients are consistently of lower quality that food grade ingredients of the same type. That is what defines them as feed grade vs food grade. Rice Bran is a perfect example of this. |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | There's not any GMO rice being grown commercially. Nor Coconuts. Nor flax. Isn't that what's in Renew Gold? I'm also not aware of anyone growing rice for feed--it's all intended for human consumption, although of course some will be damaged and rejected for that purpose. And there are, as you say, different handling protocols for rice bran milled for feed use vs food grade. I'm not familiar with flax production, but I would guess it's similar. Point is, there is no GMO version of these ingredients. |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | Three 4 Luck - 2017-02-08 2:04 PM
There's not any GMO rice being grown commercially. Nor Coconuts. Nor flax. Isn't that what's in Renew Gold? I'm also not aware of anyone growing rice for feed--it's all intended for human consumption, although of course some will be damaged and rejected for that purpose. And there are, as you say, different handling protocols for rice bran milled for feed use vs food grade. I'm not familiar with flax production, but I would guess it's similar. Point is, there is no GMO version of these ingredients.
I knew that I should not have started this conversation. My point was that Food grade ingredients are handled differently, and that all the ingredients in every product that we make is also Non-gmo as a way to insure that those standards can be controlled. We do this partly because it guarantees that it gets its own storage considerations in the mill and therefore remains at the intended quality level without ever being potentially mixed with off grade ingredients. We make equine products, poultry products, and dog food using a very wide range of ingredients, and use this standard as one way to maintain quality in all of them. If one product does not have GMO variants available that does not change the fact that there are no GMO ingredients in that product. As to rice being only grown for food use, that is the intent, but the resulting raw rice bran, grade 5 rice that results from cold mold, heat or other damage all sells into the feed market when they can find a buyer. That commonly does end up in equine feed, and we will not use any of those ingredients. There was some GMO rice grown in trials in the South in the past, they are NOT finding it in any testing, and Southern rice is certainly considered non-GMO. There has never been GMO rice grown in California where I grow rice, even though there was a push to experiment with it. Cooler minds prevailed on that. There has been GMO flax produced, and we require a Non-GMO certification from our supplier. Many flax suppliers will not provide that.
Edited by winwillows 2017-02-08 2:40 PM
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Is there specific testing for aflatoxins with this feed? |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | Bear - 2017-02-08 3:06 PM
Is there specific testing for aflatoxins with this feed?
Every component of every product that we make is tested. Another reason to use food grade components. |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | rodeomom3 - 2017-02-08 12:02 PM casualdust07 - 2017-02-08 12:59 PM rodeomom3 - 2017-02-08 10:39 AM Bear - 2017-02-08 10:27 AM For that matter, what's so bad about GMO feed? For me it is not about GMO but the added fillers like soy products that are not good for horses. Soy is really not bad for horses. Most of the "soy is bad" hype comes from human literature in which women over consume soy (as a replacement for meat ) and then have hormonal consequences because of it. However, horses are strict herbivores- they are not like people or dogs or cats- and they must eat plant based proteins. The amino acid requirements of soy are very similar to what horses need. I've seen this come up where people are stopping soy products for reproductive reasons for what they've seen in people, but horses are just not the same.
and it really depends on the processing. Call THE to get the details of why they use soy flour and. All soy is not created equal. Soy is an excellent source of amino acids etc. I won't pretend to understand it all, but Bob can explain it all. Even Platinum Performance uses soy... |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | Thecowgirlinme - 2017-02-08 3:45 AM
Thank you, Win. We know how hard you've worked to make this product the best and to know how much you care about whats going on "beyond the scenes," speaks volumes!! THANK YOU!!
Ditto. We appreciate your response and commitment to producing a quality feed we can count on! |
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 I don't want to screw up!
Posts: 3881
Location: North Dakota -> Colorado | hammer_time - 2017-02-08 6:56 PM Thecowgirlinme - 2017-02-08 3:45 AM Thank you, Win. We know how hard you've worked to make this product the best and to know how much you care about whats going on "beyond the scenes," speaks volumes!! THANK YOU!! Ditto. We appreciate your response and commitment to producing a quality feed we can count on!
I completely agree! I have recently started using Renew Gold, and so far I am so so so impressed. Your commitment to excellence can be seen! Thanks, Win! |
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| TurnNBurn-3Barrels - 2017-02-09 11:07 AM
hammer_time - 2017-02-08 6:56 PM Thecowgirlinme - 2017-02-08 3:45 AM Thank you, Win. We know how hard you've worked to make this product the best and to know how much you care about whats going on "beyond the scenes," speaks volumes!! THANK YOU!! Ditto. We appreciate your response and commitment to producing a quality feed we can count on!
Agree - I am pleased with the horses I have on Renew Gold  Reading these posts from Win makes me realize just how much they care and the work they pour into this product. |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | wyoming barrel racer - 2017-02-08 5:48 PM
rodeomom3 - 2017-02-08 12:02 PM casualdust07 - 2017-02-08 12:59 PM rodeomom3 - 2017-02-08 10:39 AM Bear - 2017-02-08 10:27 AM For that matter, what's so bad about GMO feed? For me it is not about GMO but the added fillers like soy products that are not good for horses. Soy is really not bad for horses. Most of the "soy is bad" hype comes from human literature in which women over consume soy (as a replacement for meat ) and then have hormonal consequences because of it. However, horses are strict herbivores- they are not like people or dogs or cats- and they must eat plant based proteins. The amino acid requirements of soy are very similar to what horses need. I've seen this come up where people are stopping soy products for reproductive reasons for what they've seen in people, but horses are just not the same.
Soy doesn't scare me one bit. and i love THE supplements too :P |
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| casualdust07 - 2017-02-09 11:46 AM
wyoming barrel racer - 2017-02-08 5:48 PM
rodeomom3 - 2017-02-08 12:02 PM casualdust07 - 2017-02-08 12:59 PM rodeomom3 - 2017-02-08 10:39 AM Bear - 2017-02-08 10:27 AM For that matter, what's so bad about GMO feed? For me it is not about GMO but the added fillers like soy products that are not good for horses. Soy is really not bad for horses. Most of the "soy is bad" hype comes from human literature in which women over consume soy (as a replacement for meat ) and then have hormonal consequences because of it. However, horses are strict herbivores- they are not like people or dogs or cats- and they must eat plant based proteins. The amino acid requirements of soy are very similar to what horses need. I've seen this come up where people are stopping soy products for reproductive reasons for what they've seen in people, but horses are just not the same.
Soy doesn't scare me one bit. and i love THE supplements too :P
Did some more reading and agree, lots of reptuble sources recommend a good soy oil for horses. |
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