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Member
Posts: 6
| You should stick with your quality hay and alfalfa. Quality roughage is an important part of a feeding program.
I assume your higher costs are coming from your RG feed and supplements? Whole Oats are typically a cheaper grain to feed compared to buying a feed with oats in it.
If you are a "Barrel Racer" as your name suggests, a grain concentrate feed should be considered. If you are properly training, keeping in shape and running your horse, you will likely need a grain concentrate supplement. You will be burning lots of calories and most horses cannot get enough from roughage alone.
ReNew Gold should not be considered a grain concentrate. It is mostly rice bran, which is not good fed at the high concentrations as a replacement feed mainly due to the negatives associated with rice bran. Rice bran has a higher ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 fatty acids, which is not desirable. Omega 3s are desired, omega 6s are not. RG does contain flax seed meal, but this is just the cheaper left overs after the beneficial oils (omega 3s) have been extracted. Something with "Milled flax seed" is what you want. Milled flax seed is one of the most beneficial supplements/feeds for a horse.
Just curious, what supplements do you feed and why? A true milled flax based supplement would help your horse be more efficient at extracting nutrients and energy from its feed, which could allow you to cut back on amounts. | |
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| He gets alfalfa and costal, and he's eats both of them. Also eats his peanut hay as well every now and then when I buy a bale. doesn't turn his nose up to any of them.
Anyone feel free to PM me and I can send pics of what all these horses look like. It won't let me attach pics for some reason! | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
 
| I think your horses would prefer less in the long run.
With your feeding program you are feeding a lot of simple carbohydrates which ferment in the hind gut and changes the ph in a negative way.
A lot of people would say your feed could lead to a leaky gut syndrome.
Leaky gut can cause an inflammation process in your horse, aggravate arthritis, brittle feet, brittle hair, more prone to illnesses.
I was told not to feed more then 1 lb of simple carbohydrates. My horses are not lacking in anyway.
If you want to add fat, add renew gold, or flax | |
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| Horsebill - 2017-02-23 11:19 AM
You should stick with your quality hay and alfalfa. Quality roughage is an important part of a feeding program.
I assume your higher costs are coming from your RG feed and supplements? Whole Oats are typically a cheaper grain to feed compared to buying a feed with oats in it.
If you are a "Barrel Racer" as your name suggests, a grain concentrate feed should be considered. If you are properly training, keeping in shape and running your horse, you will likely need a grain concentrate supplement. You will be burning lots of calories and most horses cannot get enough from roughage alone.
ReNew Gold should not be considered a grain concentrate. It is mostly rice bran, which is not good fed at the high concentrations as a replacement feed mainly due to the negatives associated with rice bran. Rice bran has a higher ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 fatty acids, which is not desirable. Omega 3s are desired, omega 6s are not. RG does contain flax seed meal, but this is just the cheaper left overs after the beneficial oils (omega 3s) have been extracted. Something with "Milled flax seed" is what you want. Milled flax seed is one of the most beneficial supplements/feeds for a horse.
Just curious, what supplements do you feed and why? A true milled flax based supplement would help your horse be more efficient at extracting nutrients and energy from its feed, which could allow you to cut back on amounts.
As of today, THIS morning.
He gets fed scoop of feed (3lb)
Half scoop whole oats (pound -/+)
Solo cup of RG
Along with his costal round bale and his flake or two of alfalfa mornings and night.
That's it!!
My 2 yr old gets
Half scoop of feed
Solo cup of RG
Flake of alfalfa AM/PM
And the easy keeper pasture buddy gets a scoop of feed.
They are turned out on 20 acre pasture and my open gelding is by himself on a 5 acre lot. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1694
Location: Willows, CA | OP sent me a pm and that has been answered for both horses.
There are a lot of misconceptions on this thread about what Renew Gold does and how it is formulated and why. I answered some of this on another thread, but will take a minute to explain a couple of things here.
The comment about the flax being left over waste from oil extraction is not the case. We use food grade full fat stabilize flax. (the aafco definition does not allow that full description on the label ingredient list)
The comment about one pound in the whole diet not meaning much misses the whole point of Renew Gold. By effecting efficiency throughout the entire system Renew Gold allows for better nutrient uptake and much more efficient digestion of the roughage portion of the diet. Part of this comes from eliminating significant amounts of grain from the typical diet, reducing bacterial driven inflammation high in the digestive system, and eliminating ingredients that generate inflammation which negatively effected efficiency farther down the system. I have written often about why this is important, and it requires too much space to do it all over again here. The bottom line is that we can take a lot of grain based calories out of the diet by removing that grain and gain those calories back in a safer form through more complete digestion of the roughage portion of the diet. This captures calories that were ending up on the ground behind the horse and were simply not available because of inefficient function of the hind gut while they were in there. While one pound of Renew Gold is very energy dense and provides safe usable calories, it is the above effect of that one pound that produces the greatest benefit to the entire system.
I discussed omega 3 and omega 6 relationships on the other thread.
The people who are using Renew Gold only with quality hay, and following our guidelines are, in fact, seeing the results that they are posting. To use a current phrase, those posts are not fake news. While all horses are different, if this program is not working for someone there is usually a reason that we can identify and adjust for to obtain a positive result. | |
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | IRunOnFaith - 2017-02-23 11:58 AM Barrelhorsehelp1 - 2017-02-23 10:11 AM Tdove - 2017-02-23 10:05 AM Barrelhorsehelp1 - 2017-02-23 9:56 AM he already is getting alfalfa.. i know im feeding plently of good quality hay and like i said they all look fat and happy like my feeding program is working as far as keeping everyone happy slick and fat but its breaking my bank and i KNOW im feeding to much grain.
im just worried im gonna starve my guys going from 12lb feed a day to 2lb... should i just cut out the processed feed all together and stick with the RG??  The key there would be when cutting back from 12 to 2 lbs of grain, you would need to increase the alfalfa to match.
i can buy those block of timothy/alfalfa instead but i dont want to buy costal round bales and alfalfa if hes only going to be eating one or the other?? why do i feel like i wont be cutting my feed bill in half and instead paying more Alfalfa has nutritional value and should be used to match the gaps in your feed program. Message winwillows your feed program in a PM. He will tell you exactly where the holes are, how to fix it and why you need to fix it. He will even give you an amount in pounds of each to feed. He's an expert. He does this for a living. PM him. 
There is absolutly no part of that, that is correct.
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 Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | Horsebill - 2017-02-23 11:19 AM
You should stick with your quality hay and alfalfa. Quality roughage is an important part of a feeding program.
I assume your higher costs are coming from your RG feed and supplements? Whole Oats are typically a cheaper grain to feed compared to buying a feed with oats in it.
If you are a "Barrel Racer" as your name suggests, a grain concentrate feed should be considered. If you are properly training, keeping in shape and running your horse, you will likely need a grain concentrate supplement. You will be burning lots of calories and most horses cannot get enough from roughage alone.
ReNew Gold should not be considered a grain concentrate. It is mostly rice bran, which is not good fed at the high concentrations as a replacement feed mainly due to the negatives associated with rice bran. Rice bran has a higher ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 fatty acids, which is not desirable. Omega 3s are desired, omega 6s are not. RG does contain flax seed meal, but this is just the cheaper left overs after the beneficial oils (omega 3s) have been extracted. Something with "Milled flax seed" is what you want. Milled flax seed is one of the most beneficial supplements/feeds for a horse.
Just curious, what supplements do you feed and why? A true milled flax based supplement would help your horse be more efficient at extracting nutrients and energy from its feed, which could allow you to cut back on amounts.
This is great advice, I was just going to say go to tractor supply and if you want to supplement a fat builder get a bag of rice bran and get a bag of alfalfa cubes and soak a half bucket (5 lbs or so) of alfalfa cubes every night, that would be your best source of fat instead of putting your horse on all these different expensive supplements!!! Keep it simple and cheap - that's my motto and it's always worked for me.
Edited by RnRJack 2017-02-23 6:18 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | Just wondering why you're giving your horse a scoop of oats and your regular grain? Seems like you need to find one good quality feed and cut all the other stuff out. Add flax, coco soya oil (from tractor supply has all 3 omega fatty acids) and rice bran if you want, along with hay and soaked alfalfa cubes you would be fine. That's just my suggestion. | |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | streakysox - 2017-02-23 9:53 AM Bibliafarm - 2017-02-23 7:29 AM Now my post makes no sense since you edited it and removed what you are feeding each horse!!! stop....lol
Personally had no luck with renew gold... my mare went downhil fast on it losing weight.. i dont care to hear why or whatever .. I took her off it.. and wouldnt use it myself.....
i think a easy keeper doesnt require 4 lbs of grain that is 10 fat..you could put him on the oats like your running horse..
I think a 2 yr old needs more then renew gold per your first post thats all it gets..
your running horse is getting alot still 11 lbs of grain ? maybe up the alfalfa and reduce his grain? I dont know anything about him though..
forage is the most important aspect of the diet i agree
just opinions.....for i dont know your work load or anything about Your horses..
to post regarding Your new edited post.. and plan........... you have a easty keeper , a 2 yr old, and a running horse... no matter what you feed they each will require differant lbs .... Not every feed or supplement works on every horse. Growing up, we did not feed our horses but they were on 300 acres of fertilized common Bermuda. Just becauses there is some green stuff out in the pasture does not mean that it is grass or even edible for that matter and if it is not fertilized it has little nutritional value. Ever notice the nutritional value of your feed on the tag? If you mix feeds or add oats, you completely redo the nutritional value of what you feed. Texas A & M constantly picks up feed and analyzes it to make sure that the feed matches the tag.
Not once in my post did it say to Mix grains or add oats to her grain.... and your correct every horse is differant | |
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| Geez. Everyone made this so complicated!
Round bales are fine, regardless of quality they're going to help guard against ulcers and boredom by giving them forage. It goes without saying that the higher the quality, the better off. Common sense there.
Alfalfa is a main key. A good quality cube or bale should be fed pound for pound. Horses getting alfalfa should be presented with at least 16 lbs if only being fed alfalfa, 20 is better and will give you that shiny, glossy, strong horse you're going for. I like to give mine 10-12 lbs if they also have a round bale or free choice coastal.
Horses are not made to handle concentrates. It jacks up their stomachs by screwing up the sugar balance, which freaks the stomach bugs out, which then throws the pH out of balance. Then you get ulcers or horses that can't digest properly, what a mess.
The best thing to do is throw out your grain. Go to just plain old stabilized rice bran, feed 2-4 lbs a day, depending on body condition. Go with a nice vitamin/mineral, I like Equipride.
Might take a while for them to detox off the grain and get their digestion squared up. That's where the Equipride is invaluable, it helps to ease the transition.
I've literally done everything under the sun for my horses, hard keepers and otherwise. The only thing that gave me healthy, beautiful, horses with plenty of stamina and edge was great alfalfa, Equipride, and stabilized rice bran.
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Good Ole Boys just Fine with Me
Posts: 2869
Location: SE Missouri | Spend more money on high quality hay. Two flakes of alfalfa a day is not enough for any of them w/RG if they are not on good grass pasture or not getting high quality grass hay.
I have four head on it and all are very fluffy. They have been in dry lot all winter (just turned out on a couple weeks ago). They have been getting 1# of renew gold, 6flakes (at least) of good alfalfa and have an orchard grass/Timothy roundbale in front of them and a mineral block. Since the grass isn't really going- they still get a round bale and I've added alfalfa pellets to the RG (convenience bc of hauling feed to pasture in the morning). When in the stall they get enough alfalfa that that never run totally out between feedings.
It's all about high quality forage/hay first. | |
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Good Ole Boys just Fine with Me
Posts: 2869
Location: SE Missouri | Barrelhorsehelp1 - 2017-02-23 11:26 AM
Horsebill - 2017-02-23 11:19 AM
You should stick with your quality hay and alfalfa. Quality roughage is an important part of a feeding program.
I assume your higher costs are coming from your RG feed and supplements? Whole Oats are typically a cheaper grain to feed compared to buying a feed with oats in it.
If you are a "Barrel Racer" as your name suggests, a grain concentrate feed should be considered. If you are properly training, keeping in shape and running your horse, you will likely need a grain concentrate supplement. You will be burning lots of calories and most horses cannot get enough from roughage alone.
ReNew Gold should not be considered a grain concentrate. It is mostly rice bran, which is not good fed at the high concentrations as a replacement feed mainly due to the negatives associated with rice bran. Rice bran has a higher ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 fatty acids, which is not desirable. Omega 3s are desired, omega 6s are not. RG does contain flax seed meal, but this is just the cheaper left overs after the beneficial oils (omega 3s) have been extracted. Something with "Milled flax seed" is what you want. Milled flax seed is one of the most beneficial supplements/feeds for a horse.
Just curious, what supplements do you feed and why? A true milled flax based supplement would help your horse be more efficient at extracting nutrients and energy from its feed, which could allow you to cut back on amounts.
As of today, THIS morning.
He gets fed scoop of feed (3lb )
Half scoop whole oats (pound -/+ )
Solo cup of RG
Along with his costal round bale and his flake or two of alfalfa mornings and night.
***give him more alfalfa (4flakes am and pm then keep moving this amount up ) and you'll be able to cut out the old feed soon
That's it!!
My 2 yr old gets
Half scoop of feed
Solo cup of RG
Flake of alfalfa AM/PM
**same here give more alfalfa 2 flakes a day isn't enough. Our babies never run out of alfalfa totally.
And the easy keeper pasture buddy gets a scoop of feed.
They are turned out on 20 acre pasture and my open gelding is by himself on a 5 acre lot.
**is the pasture fertilized? Does it have a winter grass sown? If the grass doesn't get fed- it can't feed your horses. Just some thoughts : ) fertilize your pasture after soil tests and high quality alfalfa will be some of the best money you can spend.
**my suggestions | |
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 Straight Shooter
Posts: 5725
Location: SW North Dakota | wyoming barrel racer - 2017-02-23 10:11 AM I have 7 geldings and 4 mares on nothing but pasture grass, year round. They are far from starved. I guess they have a protein block during the winter, until we start to have to mix cattle in with them in April. If I am riding something hard, I supplement them with some alfalfa pellets instead of grain. They are ridden hard in the spring and fall and on and off in the summer for ranch work and they hold their weight just fine and have stamina. I am talking checking calving cows for 2 hrs at sun up, again mid day and that evening. Rough country at a fast trot.
I think the need for bagged grains is a huge misconception and the reason so many people have ulcer issues, along with behavior issues. Most hard keepers are that way for a reason. Something is wrong. Teeth, ulcers, internal parasites, metabolic or poor quality forage.
I know there are exeptions to the rule, and I do give small amounts of grain to my senior horses that can no longer eat hay or pasture due to teeth, or lack of. And my weanlings get some grain, but not the amounts stated on the bag.
WBR, totally agree. Even my 28 year old mare is out on pasture with 13 other horses. We roll out a round bale the day after they clean up the last bale. Why do I leave a senior horse out in the pasture during ND winters? Because she looks great! I could show a zillion pictures of ultra shiny, fat (fit) horses that never see a stitch of grain all year. | |
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 Warrior Mom
Posts: 4400
| classicpotatochip - 2017-02-23 9:39 PM
Geez. Everyone made this so complicated!
Round bales are fine, regardless of quality they're going to help guard against ulcers and boredom by giving them forage. It goes without saying that the higher the quality, the better off. Common sense there.
Alfalfa is a main key. A good quality cube or bale should be fed pound for pound. Horses getting alfalfa should be presented with at least 16 lbs if only being fed alfalfa, 20 is better and will give you that shiny, glossy, strong horse you're going for. I like to give mine 10-12 lbs if they also have a round bale or free choice coastal.
Horses are not made to handle concentrates. It jacks up their stomachs by screwing up the sugar balance, which freaks the stomach bugs out, which then throws the pH out of balance. Then you get ulcers or horses that can't digest properly, what a mess.
The best thing to do is throw out your grain. Go to just plain old stabilized rice bran, feed 2-4 lbs a day, depending on body condition. Go with a nice vitamin/mineral, I like Equipride.
Might take a while for them to detox off the grain and get their digestion squared up. That's where the Equipride is invaluable, it helps to ease the transition.
I've literally done everything under the sun for my horses, hard keepers and otherwise. The only thing that gave me healthy, beautiful, horses with plenty of stamina and edge was great alfalfa, Equipride, and stabilized rice bran.
Which brand of rice bran do you feed?
I like this advice the best! I do feed grain, but very little.. my horses are out on a mediocre round bale all day and then come in at night and are fed 2 good sized flakes of nice alfalfa. I've thought about ditching the grain but haven't done it it. I feed blue bonnet omega force at 4lbs a day. Plus forco and 1 horse gets THE MM and an oz of excel eq.
Edited by want2chase3 2017-02-24 10:13 AM
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Expert
Posts: 1599
| The best thing I ever did was switch to free choice alfalfa cubes, supplement with platinum and TM block. Low maintenance and horses look fabulous!! | |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Boy this thread makes my head spin, kinda hard to follow, to many different opinions, lol..  
Edited by Southtxponygirl 2017-02-24 12:46 PM
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 I'm Cooler Offline
Posts: 6387
Location: Pacific Northwest | I slowly changed my feed program about 4 years ago. They used to get dry cob and hay, and the older horses got equine senior. Now, everyone just gets beet pulp and alfalfa pellets, along with timothy hay, although I give my one mare some regular alfalfa hay too (she's who I run and is also a harder keeper). The harder keepers get fed more of everything, the easy keepers get fed less. Everyone gets a multivitamin.
Seems to be working. Everyone is fat and shiny. The 22 y/o started dropping weight for the first time in his life and I just added an extra cup of beet pulp and an extra cup of alfalfa pellets and a few more pounds of hay and it did the trick.
The mare that I run is the only one who gets extra supplements. She gets Tight Joints Plus and SmartGut Ultra.
If anyone starts dropping weight, instead of immediately adding a supplement or wanting to change their feed, I do everything to figure out if there's a reason, ie fecal count to check for worms and maybe treat for ulcers. I try to keep it as simple as possible. I used to want a supplement for every problem. It was more expensive and more stressful. | |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Southtxponygirl - 2017-02-24 12:44 PM
Boy this thread makes my head spin, kinda hard to follow, to many different opinions, lol..
It sure is and the sick thing is even though the horses are doing great on their simple diet, I STILL have to go check out anything new I hear about!!!! WHYYYYYa???!!!!  | |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas |
LOL, me too... So I try to stay away from these threads, but I get curious and got to see whats going on..I have got to keep my curiosity in check!!! | |
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Warrior Mom
Posts: 4400
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Lol! I'll admit to that as well. | |
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Folks on-line