RockinGR - 2017-03-20 1:04 PM


Yes, this. I personally don't like martingales, though I do understand that they have a use, and for that reason I do own one and very occasionally use it. However I find it much more effective to spend a few days teaching one to do it right.
Example: this mare was horribly unbalanced and not broke in her face or body. Fought me terrible about it too. Would throw her face around and root, stick her nose up to evade, and I'd had it with her. I tied her head down and let her fight it out for a few min, then went about gently encouraging her to move forward and up into her bridle. This was the result of 15 min of work.



And she was a totally different horse for the better when I rode her. Not that she's miraculously fixed, she'd benefit from a few more sessions, but the difference in teaching her to move up underself and into the bit was Night and Day. She's a beautiful mover, just had no idea HOW.

QHriderKE - 2017-03-20 1:17 PM


She looks super heavy on the forehand, as that method will do every time. You tie the head down and in order to avoid yanking themselves in the mouth, they just suck back behind the bit and dump themselves onto the forehand.

Collection starts from behind. You don't ride a horse front to back and call it "collected".

You need them to drive from the hind end and then you use your body to push them forward onto the bit, and the head coming down is the very last step and happens when they lift their back. You can have horses with their heads down and still have no impulsion and hollowed out backs. If you look at your mares back, her head is down but her back is hollow.

QHriderKE - 2017-03-20 1:34 PM

Compare her stride in that photo in the front to the stride in her hinds. She's stepping shorter behind (not tracking up) and it is not under her like you want to see in a horse that is really driving from their hindquarter. That's what I see, and that's what I've seen with every horse that was taught to respect the bit more using that method.

RockinGR - 2017-03-20 1:43 PM


I do not disagree with your description per sey... But again, this was only a few minutes of work (not a finished product, merely the best pic I had to illustrate what I was saying), compared to trying to ride her through her head shaking/flinging, bit fighting, nose rooting etc. Doing that she was ALL on her front end, legs everywhere but up under her, with no forward motion to speak of. Because she simply had no idea how to stop fighting and just move up.

QHriderKE - 2017-03-19 10:43 PM I use a leather one with the neck strap because I don't usually have a breastcollar on my saddle for just flat work. Less stuff to get sweaty and itchy under. The string one looks okay too, but you may have to play with it a bit to adjust it right. One of these babies would do you just fine if you dont feel the whole neck strap thing is necessary. https://www.statelinetack.com/item/weaver-harness-leather-rubber-tub... https://www.statelinetack.com/item/weaver-leather-training-fork-girt...
Do you find that the training fork takes the lateral movement out of one?

slacy09 - 2017-03-21 10:46 AM


If you're just using it for a week or two at a time, it doesn't hurt anything. Even if you are worried about keeping your horse supple laterally, and think using a martingale will be "detrimental" to that, why not just take 10 minutes before you put the tool on just working on flexion? It's like doing your stretches before a workout!

This was the first time I walked her through the pattern last Spring, so it's pretty sloppy and I do a lot of wrong things, but she's wearing a running martingale and she has lots of room for all kinds of lateral movement if I were to ask her for it! She picked up that bend between first and second almost all on her own.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj6a_7fvuXg

I've used both german martingales and the running martingales, just depends on how strong the horse is being.
Just for this particular OP, I think they don't need anything aggressive. Which, she could use a german martingale too, just on the rings with the least amount of draw, it's her choice though.

QHriderKE - 2017-03-21 9:21 AM
First off, if your dentals are not correct, a horse can not move their jaw vertically to allow them to round their back and drive with their hip up and forward. So make sure you have proper dentals done. Second, I do not mind bitting a horse up in the round pen  and teaching them to soften to pressure vertically. I teach them to soften to lateral flexion on the ground (I do not tie their head around). I think most people OVER DO it and the horse is now behind the bit and not tracking up underneath themselves. You ride horses from the hip forward, if that shoulder isn't elevated, that hip can not drive up and under them, hence collection. I have used german and running martigales. I am not a huge fan of running martingales because I feelt you can't lift a shoulder as well in one, but I will leave one on the first 30 days I am starting a horse. If I have a horse who is hollowing out and not using their body correctly, I'd prefer to get back to the round pen and fix it in a snaffle. JMO

Picture is of 4 year old mare, who is extremely balanced and collected naturally, but you can see that hip driving up and forward, her head is vertical to the ground, meaning she is not behind or ahead of the bit, her shoulder is elevated allowing that hip to come up and forward.  





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QHriderKE - 2017-03-21 11:21 AM
Makes sense!! Thanks!!

flyhperformancehorse - 2017-03-21 12:23 PM


Spot on!

wyoming barrel racer - 2017-03-21 5:23 PM

This is my horse with no gagets or gimmicks. In the summer/english picture with my friend riding, he is rounded and collected at a slow extended trot. We use a smooth D ring bit. He does have his head too low, but she may have been asking him for it as I can see the reins have contact. In my winter furry picture from a couple weeks ago, I was asking him for a slow jog with some collection-impulsion from the hind end, but taking small slow steps without knee action. This horse is so green it isn't funny. I never ride him steady but we are consistent when we ask for something. Collection is harder to achieve at a canter, at least for me. I am against getting on their face constantly, but with him I have to ask him up with my legs (or he breaks to a trot) but bump him back with the reins to get the head set and collection. It frustrates me, I have only started colts or barrel horses before taking on this adventure. I just know even with barrel racing I don't like to use anything unless it is a last resort.

Prairie Rouge - 2017-03-20 7:54 PM My mare usually has a low headset, just needs help/needs to be reminded to keep herself collected while I am doing more intense drills so that I don't have to constantly be in her mouth. Also, this isn't something that I would use all the time, I don't want it to become a crutch for my horse or me, just used as a tune-up/reminder once in a while. :) I like the idea of the training fork as I feel it would give my horse a little more freedom, but it focuses mostly on keeping the head low. Whereas I want her to know she needs to stay collected as well. But the german martingale also seems a little more restrictive.

oija - 2017-03-20 12:06 PM Someone briefly mentioned this but I am going to reiterate, collection or being bent at the poll IS NOT true collection. True collection involves them gathering their entire body and using their hind end with impulsion. They round out their back. A lot of people get them to bend their head only and then become convinced they have collected the horse. Just make sure you can feel the horse round the back and bring their hind end under them to work. True collection usually gets them to bend at the poll but they can bend at the poll without collection. That's why some of these tools can be counter productive with horses if all you are doing is teaching them to give you their nose more but their back is still hollow and their hind end strung out. Then they end up with just a really muscled neck.