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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 534
 
Location: Ohio girl moved to PA | I've never had this problem but ive had friends that have. At your shows do they offer exhibition before the show starts? if so, can you exhib him a couple times that way you can work that first kink out? treat your exhib run like a real run and see what he does, if he acts up, you have the time to fix it, run again, and go from there and maybe he wont do it in the actual class? that way youve only wasted $4-$5 instead of a $30 entry fee. I know things are different during an actual run, nerves, crowd, and so on. But it may be worth a try. I also agree with giving him a different job for a couple months, his heart just may not be in it right now. Good luck! |
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Defense Attorney for The Horse
 
Location: Claremore, OK | I've seen horses that were really sore make awesome runs In the practice pen or even in an exhibition. They know when they're not entered they have to work or they'll get tortured.
I would have a good lameness vet look at him, particularly on his right side (if he goes to try right barrel first).
Most horses I've had that do this turn out to have a soft tissue problem such as collateral lig. Damage or suspensory tears . Most of the time it's suspensory tears . |
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
 
Location: OH. IO | Liana D - 2017-06-30 9:53 AM
I've seen horses that were really sore make awesome runs In the practice pen or even in an exhibition. They know when they're not entered they have to work or they'll get tortured.
I would have a good lameness vet look at him, particularly on his right side (if he goes to try right barrel first).
Most horses I've had that do this turn out to have a soft tissue problem such as collateral lig. Damage or suspensory tears . Most of the time it's suspensory tears .
I agree with this! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 595
Location: nj | StreakySox - curious which trainer and if you could share any of what was done with him?
I have a horse that started with an issue after 3 years - it was an injury which was addressed and alot of time given. But now I am thinking it is no longer pain but a learned behavior. I get the pain of not being able to correct in competion environment!!
I am also thinking about the input Treasurehunter gave of a horses airway being compressed when excited - I know with standardbreds this could be an issue. Could someone give me details on the type of scoping and the options on addressing it? was it flapper issue for example? Some interesting feedback offered here and would love to hear more details.
Edited by threeponies 2017-06-30 11:21 AM
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 Three in a Bikini
Posts: 2035
| I too own a horse that will throw a temper tantrum if conditions do not meet his expectations.
Does he do better in different arena conditions?
Center alley vs. Side gate?
Indoors vs. Outdoors?
Open gate vs. Closed?
I have personally accepted the fact that my horse performs better in pens that he prefers and it is no longer worth it to me to try and make him different.
Mind you, mine is 18 years old this year... In the past I have been able to make him perform. <-With a good come to Jesus meeting when needed.
But at this point though he has won enough $$$$$ that he deserves his selection of arena. So I give him a free pass.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 883
Location: Southern Indiana | I have rode run offs and duckers. If its truely is a pain issue (which is pretty much always why they develop these habits) they aren't gonna come around until you get that solved and then you got a long road ahead of you. In all honesty if you don't feel like he's hurting then quit babying him and wasting your money on crap to make him feel better. It's obviously not working. I am assuming he probably stops and rears because we had one that did that too. You say you can ease him into the 1st and two hand him...well this is exactly what you need to do! Haul him to local shows with cheaper fees and just ride him through it. Heck just exhibition. Don't push him! And don't be afraid to take a hand to him if he does it at a show!!! Of course be careful whose watching and where your at, but there ain't no reason why you can't give them a spanking! Little by little you'll start to gain some trust and be able to increase your speed and drop your outside rain. It will probably take over a year for him to gain his confidence back, and there will be times when he'll screw up an go back to old ways. You just gotta tough it out. Your gut will tell you if you think he will get there, but if he just keeps blowing up then you'll know you need to cut your loses. They arent going to just run in there one day magically fixed just because you went to the vet. You gotta haul them and help them gain their confidence back. Some of them are just too far gone tho.
And FYI I totally agree about going to the vet but you can only spend so much and when you don't find anything wrong it's time try something different. |
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Location: NE Texas | Go to a few jackpots (not rodeos) and do exhibitions only (get there early) - don't do slow practice runs - act like they are real runs and school him then if you think he's acting up since you can't in a rodeo and then take his butt back through like it's real again until he does it right (if you're 100% certain it's not pain). :) |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
| 907brlrcr - 2017-06-29 6:42 PM
Barnmom - Both joints were injected. I am going to do it again though. It has been a year so maybe it is time to try it again.
ctdrumrunner - Yes, there is a local race that I can school on him at, and I have. After he throws a fit we will start over and he will run it perfect. He just HAS to throw that initial tantrum. The second you make him do it again, he is perfect.... SO FRUSTRATING!
Did he do better last time you had him injected? Injections only stay in the joint for roughly 60ish days then they're "dry" again the horses get sore and it's a vicious cycle. You need to measure how long they are effective so you know how long you can go on them. I have a gelding that needs his fetlock injected. I push put the length between each time to measure when he might need them again. I DON'T wait for him to get sore though. For instance he's having a 100 day checkup in a couple weeks to see how he's doing. Last time we went 85 days, prior to that it was 65 days. If at any time I think he's off I need to take him in so we can keep track of the efficacy of injection. He also gets monthly Pentosan. Does this make sense? |
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Veteran
Posts: 217
| treasurehunter - 2017-06-30 1:20 AM
I was reading this and had a flashback. This is a long shot for what it's worth. I had a horse act similar,no tantrum but would duck or run smooth off. I worked on him for 2 years. He was the most talented horse I ever rode. At home... no problem. Show... it happened every time. I sold him. I could not do it anymore. A year later I read something that made me stop and think. By this time I saw this horse at shows go thru owner after owner. But I suspected now I knew almost for certain what the problem was all along. By this time we are 3 years "divorced" lol, I see he is for sale. He's 16 and some ropers are looking to buy him from current owner. I felt sorry for him, I knew he wouldn't work out and would end up at a sale barn. I paid a big price,brought him home and as soon as he put his head down to graze sure enough after much time had passed I finally heard the sound of his airway being compromised. That was his problem all along and I can't count the number of vets he's been to. BUT in their defense it wouldn't be caught unless someone had used the kind of scopes that you hook a horse up to while exercising. When he got "on the muscle" at a show he would get a blocked and couldn't get enough air. He's still in my pasture and I didn't get it fixed since he is 17 years old. It's a long shot but thought I might say something, who knows. I just wish I had caught it in his earlier yrs
How could you tell his airways were compromised? I'm asking because I'm paranoid. Had my new horse adjusted yesterday. And her words was that he was a mess. His neck and jaw were super tight. Today I heard his jaw popping and I could actually hear his breathing today. Chiro said give him a few days while his muscles relax and he's off anyway cause of injections. Movement wise he's better.
To OP...I agree with hauling him to school him. Take him to exhibitions even if that's all you do. Smaller local shows are usually easier on the pocket. Explain to the judge/announcer the problem you're having and they'll typically let you work through it. It's my opinion, but I think it's a learned habit now if he checks out sound for everything and will need taught he's okay or can't get away with it. You could try making it more work outside of the arena when he does blow up |
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 Scooters Savior
Location: "Si Fi" Ville | Looking back now, as he came out it, it was like a little gaspy like he ran out of air and didn't get a good breath. It wasn't one of those big noticeable things either. I pay attention to details and that one I missed till years later I remembered just a few tiny seemingly, at the time seemed very benign. If you take my horse and really make him break at the poll you would notice that you his breaths are just a tad bit louder. Sometimes he would cough a little. |
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Veteran
Posts: 217
| treasurehunter - 2017-07-01 1:11 AM
Looking back now, as he came out it, it was like a little gaspy like he ran out of air and didn't get a good breath. It wasn't one of those big noticeable things either. I pay attention to details and that one I missed till years later I remembered just a few tiny seemingly, at the time seemed very benign. If you take my horse and really make him break at the poll you would notice that you his breaths are just a tad bit louder. Sometimes he would cough a little.
I'll definitely keep an eye on him thank you. Fingers crossed his muscles are just sore from being so out |
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Expert
Posts: 1599
| What did you end up doing with this horse? Just curious?
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 Member
Posts: 25
Location: Alaska | Update - I had multiple vets, chiropractors and massage therapist come out to work on him a couple times after I posted this. I did have his hocks injected again, even though the vet said that it was not his hocks.
In the end I decided that I was not going to give up on him. I was going to see this through. There is something about him, and I knew it the second he stepped off the trailer. We started playing with cows, going for long runs on the river, we hauled and raced in a different arena and different city for almost 15 weeks straight, we spent time on the trails, we played games with the kids and did things so far out of his comfort zone. All of this seemed to work.
By the end of the season he started not only turning our first can, but we started winning. He was so wicked fast that he was able to clock decent times when we would canter to our first can (if he didn't throw himself on the ground), so as soon as he was able to have a little hustle to the first can he really started clocking. We ended the year winning the local 1D races a handful of times. We even won a buckle at the last race. To top it off, I started running poles with him, to give him another job, and his last pole run was a 22.4. Not too bad for a boy who doesn't do poles. I have been able to take him off of all his calming sups, I took off his tie down, and he is in a normal bit, instead of the mess I had to have him in, in order to have a small amount of control.
Here is the kicker though...... The end of the year is wet and cold here in Alaska, so we run in an indoor arena. The barrels are up against the wall, he doesn't have a lot of option to throw a fit in the indoor. I am a little concerned that next season when I get him out to a big open outdoor arena we might have the same issue. So I believe that he is not in pain, because he would not only be in pain if we were outside and not in pain if we were inside, but there might be too much pressure, or opportunity or something that sets him off when he is in an outdoor pen. Has anyone ever heard of that?
He is out to pasture for the winter. He is out being a horse and just letting his brain rest. I hope 5-6 months of just eating and relaxing will reset his brain and when I start working him next year he will be ready to work. Wouldn't that be wonderful if it worked!!??? Fingers Crossed!  |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 516
| What a great update! Congrats! |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| threeponies - 2017-06-30 11:18 AM
StreakySox - curious which trainer and if you could share any of what was done with him?
I have a horse that started with an issue after 3 years - it was an injury which was addressed and alot of time given. But now I am thinking it is no longer pain but a learned behavior. I get the pain of not being able to correct in competion environment!!
I am also thinking about the input Treasurehunter gave of a horses airway being compressed when excited - I know with standardbreds this could be an issue. Could someone give me details on the type of scoping and the options on addressing it? was it flapper issue for example? Some interesting feedback offered here and would love to hear more details.
Shelly Gish trains my horses. She has two right now. I can tell you that she went back to basics with my horse. Any time we have any kind of issue we always go back to basics. Usually what she does is work basics on some drill then moves over to one barrel to work on basics and has the horse work around the barrel correcting. The horse doesn't even realize it is being tuned on. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 950
Location: MO | What a GREAT update. My experience with indoor versus outdoor pens.....
I have a young horse that is off the track and can fly. He just LOVES to run. He is well composed in an indoor or a pavillion type arena, and can do his job very well. Hitting the 3d at big shows and this is his first REAL season being seasoned. The minute we hit the outdoor pens, especially with more open sides (panels), he just wants to RUN. He will turn but he is more interested in running than turning. My SO explains it as a control-able runaway. I am going to have to haul him to A LOT of outdoor pens next year to get him more seasoned there. This may not be the same situation but I do know the indoor versus outdoor is a factor. |
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 The best bad guy on the internet
Posts: 3519
Location: Arizona | 907brlrcr - 2017-06-30 1:08 AM
I very much appreciate everyone's thoughts, ideas, stories and suggestions. I am going to try all of this. I am going to re-do x-rays, injections, try to check his airway during a competitive situation, give him EXTRA positive reinforcement when he turns the barrel and try to work him more (more wet saddle blankets).
I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to try and help us.
How does he refuse the first barrel? Does he run past it, or won't turn it, does he go in the arena okay or does he start throwing a fit before you enter? |
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Member
Posts: 25
Location: Alaska | He goes in the arena perfectly. Walks quietly. When he gets behind the first barrel he almost puts his nose to his hip and starts running sideways into the fence. It almost feels like he is trying to throw himself on the ground. He has a short little neck and so he turns his head all the way around so he is almost looking back at you, so you have no control of his face. Then he just runs sideways blind, and tries to go back to the gate. It is a pretty intense temper tantrum.
He only does it once. As soon as you straighten him out and get him under control and go for it again, he runs a perfect pattern. Too late though...... |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| Glad to hear you made progress.
I would consider finding a dressage trainer in your area. That is hard work and without being too hard on them. But they learn to use their entire body and makes a good horse even better because they are so fit. Just another suggestion. I did that with a gelding I had. |
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Member
Posts: 25
Location: Alaska | This is a great idea. I have been told multiple times that dressage does amazing things for barrel ponies. I think that would be good for both of us! It certainly couldn't hurt! |
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