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Need help with chronic shoe puller!! *PICS POSTED*

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Mrs.Stepniak
Reg. Oct 2015
Posted 2017-07-12 12:05 PM
Subject: RE: Need help with chronic shoe puller!!


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Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-12 10:15 AM

Do you have any pictures of your horses hooves? I would like to see how his fronts look since you said hes got problems with them. 

I'll try and post some
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Southtxponygirl
Reg. Nov 2006
Posted 2017-07-12 12:08 PM
Subject: RE: Need help with chronic shoe puller!!



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Mrs.Stepniak - 2017-07-12 12:05 PM
Southtxponygirl - 2017-07-12 10:15 AM Do you have any pictures of your horses hooves? I would like to see how his fronts look since you said hes got problems with them. 
I'll try and post some

That would give us an ideal of what your dealing with if we saw how he looks, its hard to say without seeing  
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OregonBR
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2017-07-12 12:11 PM
Subject: RE: Need help with chronic shoe puller!!


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Unless your horse is putting his feet in the fence and yanking them off (don't laugh I had one that did this), your problem is the timing of his stride. There a few little things he can do to change the stride length or get the front foot out of the way of the hind, i.e. speed up the front and slow down the hind. Fix the angles of the front foot to correspond with the angle of the pastern. IF the angles are correct (I've seen MANY shoe jobs were the angles in the front feet are too low). There's a few other things he can do. Pulling the front shoe back on the hoof a little and leaving the hind shoe out to the toe. Keep the angles correct for his conformation and pastern angles. Measure the toe length of his front and hind feet. If he's got 3.5" toes on the front, try to leave him 3.75" of toe on the hind feet. If' he's got 3.25" toes on the front, leave him 3.5" toes on the hind. If neither of those work, have him square off the toe of his hind shoes so they are less likely to grab the branch of the front shoe. And never, ever use a rim shoe on this horses hind feet. If he were to grab a heel with a rim shoe he can severely cut his front heel.

I caution against the farrier fitting the front shoe so tight that the shoe is overgrown right away, so I don't recommend that at all. It will cause more problems with his hoof quality which sounds like you are already trying to help.
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JRJ
Reg. Dec 2007
Posted 2017-07-12 12:29 PM
Subject: RE: Need help with chronic shoe puller!!



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I had a horse that had a severe clubbed foot. Shoe pulling was a major issue. At one time there was so many nail holes that I had to just take the shoe off and keep him stall bound for months until there was some growth. What we ended up doing was actually making a small shoe for him. It covered the toe, but didn't run all the way back under the heel. He grew heel like crazy and would get very toe sore, so this did work out to my advantage. After we started doing this he quit pulling shoes. I too, went through several different farriers and even drove almost 4 hours one way for one of them. Barefoot was not an option because he would be dead lame instantly. Sometimes you just have to get creative. I know the stress and struggles all to well!

Edited by JRJ 2017-07-12 12:30 PM
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OregonBR
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2017-07-12 12:32 PM
Subject: RE: Need help with chronic shoe puller!!


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After going back and reading the whole thread, does your farrier use a hoof gauge to check angles? I used to use a hoof gauge and a tape measure every time I shod a performance horse to make sure the toes and angles on the front feet were identical to each other and the same with the hind to each other. Then if I had any issues, I would know what I could do to correct for it. He may need to put a wedge shoe on the low angled foot. And I can't stress enough the horse needs to be at the same angle as the pastern. Too steep and they pinch between P3 and P2 on the bottom of the joint. To low and they pinch on the top of P3 & P2 top of the joint. Either will cause problems with pain, affect stride length and performance.

Edited by OregonBR 2017-07-12 12:35 PM
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equussynergy
Reg. Feb 2009
Posted 2017-07-12 12:36 PM
Subject: RE: Need help with chronic shoe puller!!



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Pics of the feet will help a bunch. I went barefoot on all my horses years ago and it was the best decision ever. I couldn't find a good trimmer or farrier so I learned to do it myself and now do it professionally. Most problems are easy to fix with the right trim.
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babiemox
Reg. Dec 2004
Posted 2017-07-12 12:39 PM
Subject: RE: Need help with chronic shoe puller!!



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Fun2Run - 2017-07-11 10:42 PM

I've had that problem. New farrier fixed it. Basically, the farrier has to speed up the front breakover (less toe), and slow down the hinds (slower breakover-longer toe).  If that doesn't work, he can square off his hind feet toes (would not be my first choice).

I agree with this...I would also get a gauge and see exactly what his angles are both on the front and on the hind. Get a starting point and would first start with adjusting the angle of the hind feet. To slow the hind down you will need less of an angle.
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Mrs.Stepniak
Reg. Oct 2015
Posted 2017-07-12 12:40 PM
Subject: RE: Need help with chronic shoe puller!!


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Hopefully I can get them to post, I'll include confo pics
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babiemox
Reg. Dec 2004
Posted 2017-07-12 12:40 PM
Subject: RE: Need help with chronic shoe puller!!



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OregonBR - 2017-07-12 11:32 AM After going back and reading the whole thread, does your farrier use a hoof gauge to check angles? I used to use a hoof gauge and a tape measure every time I shod a performance horse to make sure the toes and angles on the front feet were identical to each other and the same with the hind to each other. Then if I had any issues, I would know what I could do to correct for it. He may need to put a wedge shoe on the low angled foot. And I can't stress enough the horse needs to be at the same angle as the pastern. Too steep and they pinch between P3 and P2 on the bottom of the joint. To low and they pinch on the top of P3 & P2 top of the joint. Either will cause problems with pain, affect stride length and performance.

 
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Mrs.Stepniak
Reg. Oct 2015
Posted 2017-07-12 12:41 PM
Subject: RE: Need help with chronic shoe puller!!


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Pics are too large, how do I resize them?
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Southtxponygirl
Reg. Nov 2006
Posted 2017-07-12 12:43 PM
Subject: RE: Need help with chronic shoe puller!!



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Mrs.Stepniak - 2017-07-12 12:41 PM Pics are too large, how do I resize them?
I resize with paint thats the easy way for me, I go to edit the picture and then use Paint  

Edited by Southtxponygirl 2017-07-12 12:46 PM
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missroselee
Reg. Jul 2006
Posted 2017-07-12 2:40 PM
Subject: RE: Need help with chronic shoe puller!! *PICS POSTED*


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I am not going to read through all the posts since my time is always limited....I ready enough comments "new farrier" to not want to read more.

Would changing farriers yet again work?  Possibly.  But not a guarantee.

Some horses just do this.  And it's not because they are messed up, or the farriers suck.  Guess what, some horses have a very naturally LONG stride.  Growing up we were taught the rear foot should land exactly where the front foot was.  I have no idea if this is true or not and it's the last thing I really worry about.  But it's something I have watched as a kid.  And yea, most horses do land like that.

But not all.  My current open 1D horse is the perfect example.  His rear foot will land about 10 inches in front of his front (yes I said 10 inches).  He is 12.  He has competed from SC, to GA/FL, MO, OK, Iowa, etc etc, so he's been around the block more then once.  He has had over a dozen farriers attempt to keep front shoes on him.  Some were ok farriers not doing it right, and some were the best of the best.  We tried EVERYTHING.  The only way to shoe him in order to prevent him from taking them off is to squeeze the front heels in.....BIG mistake for any horse by the way.

So we said screw it.....the SOB just don't wear back shoes........ever....

It works.  For him.  We make it work for us. 

Edited to add that after viewing your photos above, I would change farriers.  I would worry less about him stepping shoes of and worry more about that fact that he is terribly unbalanced, at least that is how it looks in the photos.  When my husband started shoeing all my horses including the open gelding I mentioned above, he wanted to figure out how to make his front feet so he would be less likely to step off shoes.  I told him that he was starting off on the wrong foot and to BALANCE the hoof.  It works.  We worry more about the specific balance then anything.


Edited by missroselee 2017-07-12 2:44 PM
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~BINGO~
Reg. Jan 2012
Posted 2017-07-12 2:48 PM
Subject: RE: Need help with chronic shoe puller!! *PICS POSTED*



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Those pictures aren't THE BEST. But I kinda like the 2nd farrier more than the current.
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IRunOnFaith
Reg. Dec 2009
Posted 2017-07-12 3:18 PM
Subject: RE: Need help with chronic shoe puller!! *PICS POSTED*



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Mrs.Stepniak - 2017-07-11 8:09 PM I am desperate for suggestions on how to deal with a chronic front shoe puller. Has any one dealt with one and what did you do that helped? He has weak hooves, we are working on that. I use Keratex hoof hardener and bell boots but he overreaches and pulls them clean off. I am open to all suggestions except to get a new farrier. I have had 3 different farriers with this horse and my current guy is fabulous. He is short backed, long strided, nothing I can do about his conformation. TIA!!

Have you looked into an over reach boot such as Veredus Brand boots?
I worked for a lady who kept Veredus Carbon Fiber Shield Over Reach boots on her stud horse at all times. She never had a problem after she bough those over reach boots. 
 



(Veredus.jpg)



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Attachments Veredus.jpg (4KB - 236 downloads)
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Mrs.Stepniak
Reg. Oct 2015
Posted 2017-07-12 3:31 PM
Subject: RE: Need help with chronic shoe puller!! *PICS POSTED*


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IRunOnFaith - 2017-07-12 3:18 PM

Mrs.Stepniak - 2017-07-11 8:09 PM I am desperate for suggestions on how to deal with a chronic front shoe puller. Has any one dealt with one and what did you do that helped? He has weak hooves, we are working on that. I use Keratex hoof hardener and bell boots but he overreaches and pulls them clean off. I am open to all suggestions except to get a new farrier. I have had 3 different farriers with this horse and my current guy is fabulous. He is short backed, long strided, nothing I can do about his conformation. TIA!!

Have you looked into an over reach boot such as Veredus Brand boots?
I worked for a lady who kept Veredus Carbon Fiber Shield Over Reach boots on her stud horse at all times. She never had a problem after she bough those over reach boots. 
 

I actually looked at those last night, they are pretty pricey but may be worth it in the long run. I'm thinking of trying quarter boots underneath bell boots first but those may certainly be an option. Thanks!
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IRunOnFaith
Reg. Dec 2009
Posted 2017-07-12 3:38 PM
Subject: RE: Need help with chronic shoe puller!! *PICS POSTED*



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Mrs.Stepniak - 2017-07-12 3:31 PM
IRunOnFaith - 2017-07-12 3:18 PM
Mrs.Stepniak - 2017-07-11 8:09 PM I am desperate for suggestions on how to deal with a chronic front shoe puller. Has any one dealt with one and what did you do that helped? He has weak hooves, we are working on that. I use Keratex hoof hardener and bell boots but he overreaches and pulls them clean off. I am open to all suggestions except to get a new farrier. I have had 3 different farriers with this horse and my current guy is fabulous. He is short backed, long strided, nothing I can do about his conformation. TIA!!
Have you looked into an over reach boot such as Veredus Brand boots?

I worked for a lady who kept Veredus Carbon Fiber Shield Over Reach boots on her stud horse at all times. She never had a problem after she bough those over reach boots. 
 
I actually looked at those last night, they are pretty pricey but may be worth it in the long run. I'm thinking of trying quarter boots underneath bell boots first but those may certainly be an option. Thanks!

Absolutely. I've seen people wrap a hoof woth a hoof boot or trail boot as well...   
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Mrs.Stepniak
Reg. Oct 2015
Posted 2017-07-12 3:43 PM
Subject: RE: Need help with chronic shoe puller!! *PICS POSTED*


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missroselee - 2017-07-12 2:40 PM

I am not going to read through all the posts since my time is always limited....I ready enough comments "new farrier" to not want to read more.

Would changing farriers yet again work?  Possibly.  But not a guarantee.

Some horses just do this.  And it's not because they are messed up, or the farriers suck.  Guess what, some horses have a very naturally LONG stride.  Growing up we were taught the rear foot should land exactly where the front foot was.  I have no idea if this is true or not and it's the last thing I really worry about.  But it's something I have watched as a kid.  And yea, most horses do land like that.

But not all.  My current open 1D horse is the perfect example.  His rear foot will land about 10 inches in front of his front (yes I said 10 inches).  He is 12.  He has competed from SC, to GA/FL, MO, OK, Iowa, etc etc, so he's been around the block more then once.  He has had over a dozen farriers attempt to keep front shoes on him.  Some were ok farriers not doing it right, and some were the best of the best.  We tried EVERYTHING.  The only way to shoe him in order to prevent him from taking them off is to squeeze the front heels in.....BIG mistake for any horse by the way.

So we said screw it.....the SOB just don't wear back shoes........ever....

It works.  For him.  We make it work for us. 

Edited to add that after viewing your photos above, I would change farriers.  I would worry less about him stepping shoes of and worry more about that fact that he is terribly unbalanced, at least that is how it looks in the photos.  When my husband started shoeing all my horses including the open gelding I mentioned above, he wanted to figure out how to make his front feet so he would be less likely to step off shoes.  I told him that he was starting off on the wrong foot and to BALANCE the hoof.  It works.  We worry more about the specific balance then anything.

Can you explain how he is unbalanced because honestly Im embarrassed to say that I do not know
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BigMomma
Reg. Nov 2013
Posted 2017-07-12 3:47 PM
Subject: RE: Need help with chronic shoe puller!! *PICS POSTED*




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I had the same problem with my horse. He would pull a shoe once a week. I did everything possible to keep shoes on him. I even considered going barefoot because he was without a shoe half of the time anyways. I got a new shoer and he has not pulled a shoe since.
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streakysox
Reg. Jul 2008
Posted 2017-07-12 11:03 PM
Subject: RE: Need help with chronic shoe puller!! *PICS POSTED*



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Heels appear to be very under run which would be causing the front and rear not to break over fast enough. Most leg injuries are cased by improper shoeing.
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Turnburnsis
Reg. Nov 2004
Posted 2017-07-13 1:34 AM
Subject: RE: Need help with chronic shoe puller!! *PICS POSTED*


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Maybe he is out of whack in his body somewhere. Maybe he needs a chiro or vet work. Good luck
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