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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 982
  
Location: On the back of a horse | I had amazing results with OE's The Solution followed by Maintain! He was also fed alfalfa cubes. I highly, highly recommend it. This horse was extremely poor and turned around and looked like a different horse in no time. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | SaritaStorm - 2017-12-19 1:56 AM Well, I have been a purchaser of Abler products including the ameprazole satchets and tubes. And this time around I had my mare scoped at the beginning and 30 days later after using Abler satchets. Her ulcers were a tiny bit worse! I had also been giving her the natural ulcer treatment, like flax, pumpkin seed powder, cabbage, yada yada. Basically none of that did anything for her ulcers per the scoping results. I'm trying some other stuff now including beet pulp,haystack/albers with a top dress of smartdigest ultra, starting gate, and u-guard pellets. She also came up positive for hind gut ulcers and at her worse times just a touch on her right side abdomen gets a reaction, so she is penned up getting no hay right now. Hopefully this will help her. She seems to be feeling better after a week of no stemmy hay. It's frustrating! Appreciate everyone's information and good luck with your horses. I'm definitely checking into some of the mentioned products!
(THERAPEUTIC MANAGEMENT OF RDC Treatment of right dorsal colitis is initially managed by the discontinuation of all NSAIDs. Dietary modification should include a low residue diet consisting of pelleted complete (e.g. Senior pellet ) feed and pelleted hay. Addition of prostaglandin precursors such as linoleic acid, contained within Safflower oil (1 cup daily ), and psyllium (2 ounces 1-2 times daily ) which contains short chain fatty acids are also advocated for the medical management of RDC in horses. ) (Treatment
The principle goals of treatment for RDC includes discontinuing or avoiding the use of NSAIDs (especially Bute and Banamine ), decreasing gut fill and bulk in the diet (mechanical load on the colon ) to allow the colon to rest, frequent feedings, reducing inflammation, coating and restoring the normal colon absorptive function and implementing methods to decrease stress.1 To reduce gut fill your veterinarian might recommend replacing the dry hay in the diet with an alfalfa-based complete pelleted feed like Equine Senior (Purina SeniorÔ, Purina Mills, St. Louis, MO ). This reduces gut fill and decreases the mechanical load on the colon. The horse can be allowed to graze small amounts of fresh grass (10 to 15 minute intervals four to six times daily ) to help decrease the stress of stall or dry paddock confinement and maintain body weight. The switch to a complete feed diet should be made over several days to a week to allow the gastrointestinal tract time to acclimatize to the feed change. This dietary change is only temporary and may last up to 3 to 4 months or at which time the blood work returns to normal. Your veterinarian may recommend weekly blood work once the horses diet is switched to the pellets. )
No hay?
Not even alfalfa?
I have never heard of this being recommended. Every article I have ever read suggests keeping forage in front of them at all times to reduce the acid in their stomach. | |
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 Veteran
Posts: 133
| BamaCanChaser - 2017-12-19 9:20 AM SaritaStorm - 2017-12-19 1:56 AM Well, I have been a purchaser of Abler products including the ameprazole satchets and tubes. And this time around I had my mare scoped at the beginning and 30 days later after using Abler satchets. Her ulcers were a tiny bit worse! I had also been giving her the natural ulcer treatment, like flax, pumpkin seed powder, cabbage, yada yada. Basically none of that did anything for her ulcers per the scoping results. I'm trying some other stuff now including beet pulp,haystack/albers with a top dress of smartdigest ultra, starting gate, and u-guard pellets. She also came up positive for hind gut ulcers and at her worse times just a touch on her right side abdomen gets a reaction, so she is penned up getting no hay right now. Hopefully this will help her. She seems to be feeling better after a week of no stemmy hay. It's frustrating! Appreciate everyone's information and good luck with your horses. I'm definitely checking into some of the mentioned products!
(THERAPEUTIC MANAGEMENT OF RDC Treatment of right dorsal colitis is initially managed by the discontinuation of all NSAIDs. Dietary modification should include a low residue diet consisting of pelleted complete (e.g. Senior pellet ) feed and pelleted hay. Addition of prostaglandin precursors such as linoleic acid, contained within Safflower oil (1 cup daily ), and psyllium (2 ounces 1-2 times daily ) which contains short chain fatty acids are also advocated for the medical management of RDC in horses. ) (Treatment
The principle goals of treatment for RDC includes discontinuing or avoiding the use of NSAIDs (especially Bute and Banamine ), decreasing gut fill and bulk in the diet (mechanical load on the colon ) to allow the colon to rest, frequent feedings, reducing inflammation, coating and restoring the normal colon absorptive function and implementing methods to decrease stress.1 To reduce gut fill your veterinarian might recommend replacing the dry hay in the diet with an alfalfa-based complete pelleted feed like Equine Senior (Purina SeniorÔ, Purina Mills, St. Louis, MO ). This reduces gut fill and decreases the mechanical load on the colon. The horse can be allowed to graze small amounts of fresh grass (10 to 15 minute intervals four to six times daily ) to help decrease the stress of stall or dry paddock confinement and maintain body weight. The switch to a complete feed diet should be made over several days to a week to allow the gastrointestinal tract time to acclimatize to the feed change. This dietary change is only temporary and may last up to 3 to 4 months or at which time the blood work returns to normal. Your veterinarian may recommend weekly blood work once the horses diet is switched to the pellets. )
No hay?
Not even alfalfa?
I have never heard of this being recommended. Every article I have ever read suggests keeping forage in front of them at all times to reduce the acid in their stomach.
I had never heard of that either til it started popping up in my research of hind gut ulcers. This horse and the others always have 24/7 grass hay with alfalfa at night, but she is not getting better even tho she is not ridden, had 24/7 turnout with a herd on 40+ acres with 80x100 covered shelter, free choice hay, and the scoping shows she's not healing. Supposedly an ideal lifestyle to avoid ulcers.... The alfalfa we got is pretty stemmy and theyre not finishing it. Lots of sticks laying around. My understanding is that part of the treatment for the hindgut is no stemmed hay for about 2-4 months. But soaked cubes/pellets okay. I'm feeding beet pulp and albers/haystack (which is pelleted alfalfa basically). I need something to give here. Tired of this. I'm pretty sure it started with giving her previcox and banamine. She was done the next day and I haven't been able to ride her since and that was 9/29/2017. I had not until recently made the connection that she can't have that stuff, not even a little bit. I don't know! but I am trying everything one at a time! | |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
 
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | SaritaStorm - 2017-12-19 11:29 AM BamaCanChaser - 2017-12-19 9:20 AM SaritaStorm - 2017-12-19 1:56 AM Well, I have been a purchaser of Abler products including the ameprazole satchets and tubes. And this time around I had my mare scoped at the beginning and 30 days later after using Abler satchets. Her ulcers were a tiny bit worse! I had also been giving her the natural ulcer treatment, like flax, pumpkin seed powder, cabbage, yada yada. Basically none of that did anything for her ulcers per the scoping results. I'm trying some other stuff now including beet pulp,haystack/albers with a top dress of smartdigest ultra, starting gate, and u-guard pellets. She also came up positive for hind gut ulcers and at her worse times just a touch on her right side abdomen gets a reaction, so she is penned up getting no hay right now. Hopefully this will help her. She seems to be feeling better after a week of no stemmy hay. It's frustrating! Appreciate everyone's information and good luck with your horses. I'm definitely checking into some of the mentioned products!
(THERAPEUTIC MANAGEMENT OF RDC Treatment of right dorsal colitis is initially managed by the discontinuation of all NSAIDs. Dietary modification should include a low residue diet consisting of pelleted complete (e.g. Senior pellet ) feed and pelleted hay. Addition of prostaglandin precursors such as linoleic acid, contained within Safflower oil (1 cup daily ), and psyllium (2 ounces 1-2 times daily ) which contains short chain fatty acids are also advocated for the medical management of RDC in horses. ) (Treatment
The principle goals of treatment for RDC includes discontinuing or avoiding the use of NSAIDs (especially Bute and Banamine ), decreasing gut fill and bulk in the diet (mechanical load on the colon ) to allow the colon to rest, frequent feedings, reducing inflammation, coating and restoring the normal colon absorptive function and implementing methods to decrease stress.1 To reduce gut fill your veterinarian might recommend replacing the dry hay in the diet with an alfalfa-based complete pelleted feed like Equine Senior (Purina SeniorÔ, Purina Mills, St. Louis, MO ). This reduces gut fill and decreases the mechanical load on the colon. The horse can be allowed to graze small amounts of fresh grass (10 to 15 minute intervals four to six times daily ) to help decrease the stress of stall or dry paddock confinement and maintain body weight. The switch to a complete feed diet should be made over several days to a week to allow the gastrointestinal tract time to acclimatize to the feed change. This dietary change is only temporary and may last up to 3 to 4 months or at which time the blood work returns to normal. Your veterinarian may recommend weekly blood work once the horses diet is switched to the pellets. )
No hay?
Not even alfalfa?
I have never heard of this being recommended. Every article I have ever read suggests keeping forage in front of them at all times to reduce the acid in their stomach.
Even with hind gut ulcers, I have never heard of no hay. Just about everyone that treats for ulcers, takes horses off of processed feed, keeps hay or pasture in front of them 24/7 takes care of the ulcers. I guess I would never ever take a horse off of hay. We are firm believers in grass hay 24/7 and rarely have ulcer issues. Colic is rare too. | |
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| horsegirl - 2017-12-18 7:26 AM
The vet "suspects" my mare's behavior is being caused by stomach ulcers. I have read so much conflicting information about generic omeprazole compounded vs. Ulcergard. What treatment options have you used and had success with, and what was the cost?
My mare is a picky eater and has been on and off of her feed, so I am thinking paste or tablets are my only option.
Have any of you heard of successes using AbGard by Abler? Also, what other compounding pharmacies can you recommend?
I can't very easily change her feed because I am at a boarding barn and she is on pasture board.
Every now and then I read one of these maybeso ulcer posts ...
I was so appalled at the nonsense going on I had to wait a day to post the following.
Use my KISS (K-eep I-t S-imple S-tupid) system and put her in the barn with turnouts
on full care with the money for weird supplements and vet costs to pay for the difference!!
Start off with a tube of Quest wormer.. good for 90 days
then Ivermectin every 60 days.
5 days of 20cc of Penicillin G.. use a size 20 needle.
Feeding regimen 2X/day:
3 lbs WHOLE OATS
3 lbs 16% SWEET FEED (not pellets)
1 small block of Alfalfa .. no cubes or pellets
AND throw a handful of loose Moormans GroStrong minerals once per day
in her feed. 25 lb bag <$30
If you want her hair to really shine .. throw a handful of WHOLE FLAX SEED
IN BOTH FEEDINGS ... 50 lb bag <$40
24/7 good quality hay
Here is what this will do ...
Quest will kill every type of worm and clean her out ..
Penicillin G will assist her natural immune system to attack any low caliber
infections or help heal any sores in digestive system and possibly kill some
bad gut bacteria. It is a simple wide range antibiotic to give a horse a
chance to give itself a natural boost to good health.
Whole oats .. to add to her chewing and creating saliva to start the digestive
system along with some natural roughage and carbs
Sweet feed for taste and a small amount of corn as an additional weight and
shine to her body..
Moorman Grostrong minerals are tried and true with the correct vitamins and
minerals that encourages her body to absorb the vitamins and minerals ..
The salt will encourage her to drink more to make digestion easier as she
eats the high quality alfalfa and hay .. call around or google for a dealer
Did you notice this is an all natural feeding Program??
So, do away with all the VOO-DOO crap and do the above for 2 months ...
nothing less and nothing more and you will end up with a new looking
heathy horse ..
Go burn the beet pulp that is loaded with heavy metals from
processing for the sugar ... make it a rule that you are not going to
feed any waste products procured from processing human food or ethanol !
Try to make a deal with your barn that you will provide all of the grain, minerals
and alfalfa and the 3 qt scoop (full it is 3 lbs) to measure her grain with
... and you do the shots and wormer and provide the feeding regimen
on a feeding sign or taped on your feed bucket where your feed sacks are kept.
You can do your feeding training over the 5 days you are giving shots ..
This is my standard feeding program for all ages of horses ... once they have
arrived at a body score of 7-8, I will feed the minerals and flax seed every other day ..
GOOD LUCK ..
 (BHW DIAMONDS N BLUEJEANS 25.jpg)
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 BHW DIAMONDS N BLUEJEANS 25.jpg (82KB - 207 downloads)
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8552
Location: sunny california | Been through this exact thing my guy could not handle coarse hay what saved him was a kerr product right track i think the encapsulated baking soda his diet was soaked alfalfa pellets but i gave him very soft timothy hay it was export quality hay and in the preboot stage very very soft. I could nit feed the stemmy hay you speak of and to this day will not buy hay like that i have heard of horses getti g a damaged colon over that kind of hay | |
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 The One
Posts: 7997
Location: South Georgia | I am on Day 9 of AbGard and my horse has no visible pain symptoms any longer, she's eating her feed, and she is alert and vibrant. I am a believer! This stuff works. 21 more days to go! | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 690
Location: Georgia | Anyone ever had a ulcery horse NOT look poor? Hes fat as can be and never turns down food unless he's at a show and nervous. When taken out of his comfort zone he gets nervous and will show ulcer symptoms, but on a regular day/riding at the house hes fine. And if you separate him and his buddy he looses his mind. | |
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| Stemmy roughage can actually really irritate the hindgut when ulcers are present there, so I understand the necessity of phasing out dry forage like alfalfa until the blood work levels improve and the horse starts recovering.
Gastric ulcers and hindgut ulcers are two different breeds of cat; with gastric ulcers you want to get them off processed feeds and try to maintain them on roughage alone because the imbalance of feed and stomach acid is most likely what caused those ulcers, whereas hindgut ulcers are typically caused by NSAIDs and can leave huge sore ulcers in the colon that can be aggravated by stemmy hay.
You slowly switch them over to a complete pelleted feed that should be roughly 30% fiber, you don’t just up and stop hay entirely on day one. They’re also allowed to eat fresh grass. It definitely is a long process to heal hindgut ulcers.
Gastric ulcer treatment (omeprazole, etc.) does not work for hindgut ulcers, but sucralfate has been studied and believed to work in coating the hindgut ulcers, allowing them to heal underneath like a bandage.
As far as Gastrogard and Ulcergard (both omeprazole), they are the only two ulcer medications actually proven to work. The compounded powders are not easily absorbed by the horse like the paste. The reason the pastes are so expensive but they work is because the patent was for the formulation, which allowed the medication to be easily absorbed by the horse. Since it is patented, that’s why none of the other products are as effective- they can’t use the same formulation even though they might have the same ingredients.
There are researchers looking into a new injectable omeprazole, and I heard some compounding pharmacies are going to carry it, but it sounds too early to know of it’s efficacy.
I looked up Abler, and it looks like the FDA sent them a couple nasty letters because they were marketing their ulcer medication without FDA approval. It does appear to be an omeprazole paste, but I would be leery about its efficacy and other ingredient list if it isn’t approved by the FDA. Even most drugs coming from the compounding pharmacies are supposed to use FDA approved ingredients, so that seems shady to me.
Edited by madredepeanut 2018-01-04 9:54 AM
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The One
Posts: 7997
Location: South Georgia | I weighed the risks. I couldn't comfortably afford the UlcerGard, so I went with the AbGuard for 1/3 the cost. I went from a mare with ears back, nostrils pulled up, bucking, refusing to move forward, swishing tail, not eating grain, barely nibbling hay.........to a mare eating her feed, normal nostrils, ears foward, no bad behavior....and just day 9. Huge difference. And it took me about 2 weeks of the negative behavior to get her to a vet for diagnosis, and another 2 weeks for the meds to arrive, so she exhibited those same symptoms for about a month prior to starting AbGard, so I know it wasn't just a fluke and she natually started feeling better. I'm telling you, the AbGard works! I'm so relieved! | |
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| mandita8907 - 2018-01-04 7:50 AM
Anyone ever had a ulcery horse NOT look poor? Hes fat as can be and never turns down food unless he's at a show and nervous. When taken out of his comfort zone he gets nervous and will show ulcer symptoms, but on a regular day/riding at the house hes fine. And if you separate him and his buddy he looses his mind.
That sounds more like a nervous horse than ulcers to me. Have you had him scoped to know if he actually has ulcers? A new environment, his friends are gone and he’s hypersensitive- sounds like me when I go somewhere new  | |
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| horsegirl - 2018-01-04 7:57 AM
I weighed the risks. I couldn't comfortably afford the UlcerGard, so I went with the AbGuard for 1/3 the cost. I went from a mare with ears back, nostrils pulled up, bucking, refusing to move forward, swishing tail, not eating grain, barely nibbling hay.........to a mare eating her feed, normal nostrils, ears foward, no bad behavior....and just day 9. Huge difference. And it took me about 2 weeks of the negative behavior to get her to a vet for diagnosis, and another 2 weeks for the meds to arrive, so she exhibited those same symptoms for about a month prior to starting AbGard, so I know it wasn't just a fluke and she natually started feeling better. I'm telling you, the AbGard works! I'm so relieved!
Do what works for you! That’s great she is responding so well, and good to know that Abler may have gotten their poop in a group with the FDA. Was she diagnosed with gastric ulcers by your vet? | |
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The One
Posts: 7997
Location: South Georgia | Yes, she was. He recommended Ulcergard but I just couldn't afford it. The farrier mentioned that he had heard people talking about Abgard so I gave it a shot.
Also, the vet noticed enlarged salivary glands when he was floating her teeth (just in case, while she was sedated), and said that those were likely the body trying to create more saliva to neutralize the stomach acids. You could tell externally because there was swelling beneath her tongue area on the outside. That is gone now too. No swelling by the chin strap area.
Edited by horsegirl 2018-01-04 10:07 AM
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| horsegirl - 2018-01-04 8:04 AM
Yes, she was. He recommended Ulcergard but I just couldn't afford it. The farrier mentioned that he had heard people talking about Abgard so I gave it a shot.
Well that is great news that she is back on the mend! Hopefully AbGard will continue being a product people can use to treat ulcers! Thank you for sharing her progress! | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 690
Location: Georgia | madredepeanut - 2018-01-04 10:58 AM
mandita8907 - 2018-01-04 7:50 AM
Anyone ever had a ulcery horse NOT look poor? Hes fat as can be and never turns down food unless he's at a show and nervous. When taken out of his comfort zone he gets nervous and will show ulcer symptoms, but on a regular day/riding at the house hes fine. And if you separate him and his buddy he looses his mind.
That sounds more like a nervous horse than ulcers to me. Have you had him scoped to know if he actually has ulcers? A new environment, his friends are gone and he’s hypersensitive- sounds like me when I go somewhere new
Im having him scoped on the 15th. I honestly hope its ulcers, that would be easier than fixing his mental state lol
Edited by mandita8907 2018-01-04 10:46 AM
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| mandita8907 - 2018-01-04 8:45 AM
madredepeanut - 2018-01-04 10:58 AM
mandita8907 - 2018-01-04 7:50 AM
Anyone ever had a ulcery horse NOT look poor? Hes fat as can be and never turns down food unless he's at a show and nervous. When taken out of his comfort zone he gets nervous and will show ulcer symptoms, but on a regular day/riding at the house hes fine. And if you separate him and his buddy he looses his mind.
That sounds more like a nervous horse than ulcers to me. Have you had him scoped to know if he actually has ulcers? A new environment, his friends are gone and he’s hypersensitive- sounds like me when I go somewhere new
Im having him scoped on the 15th. I honestly hope its ulcers, that would be easier than fixing his mental state lol
I hear you! Ulcers definitely sound like the lesser of two evils to me, good luck  | |
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | We used a compounded omeprazole for 30 days and then followed up with Uckele GUT. I recently took him off the gut (because I'm dumb) and we're right back to the pacing, non eating messy pooping horse we had before the omeprazole. If I would have just kept him on the GUT he would be fine (insert heavy eye roll at my stupidity) | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 380
| Green banana flour. Yes, seriously. It stimulates cellular growth in the gut mucous membrane. Prevents ulcers and allows the gut to heal.
"The use of Musa sapientum pulp in peptic ulcer as a component of herbal medicine has been evaluated and found effective. Some studies reported that pectin and phosphatidylcholine in green banana strengthens the mucous-phospholipid layer that protects the gastric mucosa. Other studies highlight reported that leucocyanidin, a natural flavonoid from the unripe banana (Musa sapientum) pulp, protects the gastric mucosa from erosions. Leucocyanidin and the synthetic analogues, hydroxyethylated leucocyanidin and tetra-allyl leucocyanidin were found to protect the gastric mucosa in aspirin-induced erosions in rat by increasing gastric mucus thickness. In addition to what other studies provide evidence on anti-ulcerogenic activity of banana pulp powder in aspirin-, indomethacin-, phenylbutazone-, prednisolone-induced gastric ulcers, and cysteamine- and histamine-induced duodenal ulcers in rats and guinea-pigs, respectively.
Furthermore, people from the South-Western Nigeria do blend the dried Musa sapientumpeels with the yam flour, which is one of their stable foods. Folklore has it that this meal has ameliorative effect on the patients with gastric pain and ulcer.
"The mechanism of action of Musa sapientum is by stimulating the growth of the gastric mucosa by increasing mucosal protein i.e. sialic acid and hexosamine, which in turn increase the production of mucus and thus prevent erosion by the ulcer. These significant increased levels of sialic acid and hexosamine correlated with the increased mass of mucosa in the stomach of animals treated with banana. The mode of action of the banana appears to be unlike that of conventional anti-ulcerogenic drugs in that it promotes mucus secretion by stimulating the growth of mucosal cells. The regenerated mucosa cells would rapidly seal damaged areas with a secretory layer of mucus and prevent further erosions due to gastric HCl and pepsin. The active components such as leucocyanidin may be responsible for the antiulcer properties and protect the mucosa by stimulation of cell proliferation, promoting mucus secretion, increasing mucus resistance, inhibiting the Hcl secretion and thus healing the ulcer.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3719258/
http://flipper.diff.org/app/items/7316
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3249781/?report=printab...
Edited by SloRide 2018-01-04 5:06 PM
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | the problem with omeprazole products is this "Omeprazole is from a family of proton pump inhibitors (PPI's) that blocks secretion of acid and assists by reducing and neutralizing acid in the horse's stomach allowing improved healing of existing ulcer damage.
as soon as you take them off, the acid returns as do the ulcers. This is where a product that encourages natural secretions of the stomach, are much more than a bandaid, and more beneficial in the long run. They actually heal the stomach themselves and protect against ulcers. And if it is nerves, nerves cause an upset stomach and result in ulcers too. | |
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 IMA No Hair Style Gal
Posts: 2594
| I recently had an experience with ulcers with my horse. He was diagnosed with ulcers via accupressure points by a vet who also saved my horse from EPM. Anyways, I followed up with my traditional vet and did a succeed test. He tested positive for hind gut ulcers. The holistic vet told me about a product called draw that was formulated by a vet in Oklahoma. He didn't want to change the ingredients to get his product FDA approved so he packaged it as a tightener for tendons and ligaments, but it also can be used to treat both types of ulcers. You give 2 bottles. The first bottle is 30 ccs twice a day and the second bottle is 30 ccs once per day. Total cost is under $90. I am almost done with the first bottle and so far signs via accupressure are no longer as obvious. We plan on following up with a succeed test when done with the treatment to see where we are at. Here is the link to the vet clinic that sells Draw:
https://bristowveterinaryhospital.netviewshop.com/draw
They are not out of stock, I called the clinic and double checked before I ordered online. | |
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