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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | That's the beauty of veterinary gimmicks.
They horse can't tell you it doesn't work.
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Worlds Greatest Laugh
Location: North Dakota | 1DSoon - 2018-05-11 9:25 AM That's the beauty of veterinary gimmicks.
They horse can't tell you it doesn't work.
Oh but they can! You just have to listen. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Runnincat - 2018-05-11 11:21 AM
1DSoon - 2018-05-11 9:25 AM Â That's the beauty of veterinary gimmicks.Â
They horse can't tell you it doesn't work.Â
Â
Oh but they can! You just have to listen.Â
Yep, they can, the problem is the human has to take the time to listen! |
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 Tried and True
Posts: 21185
 
Location: Where I am happiest | Â there is a huge difference between magnets and PEMF. There is also a ton of research. The first PEMF machines developed is from Gary Wade. A medical physicist. You can find ALOT of his research on line either through Google with his name or type in horse magnetic pulse machine. |
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Expert
Posts: 2121
Location: The Great Northwest |  It is no gimmick. It helps get the blood flowing in tight restricted areas, like soreness/stiffness. Another way to get blood moving in and out with the bad things. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Some of my family and myself, flew out to Reno in 2005 to watch the America West Finals.
I did something to my back and I was miserable. A BHW board buddy was there selling supplements and she had this machine with her. She worked on my back and it took all the pain away. The machine was $5,000. back then. I came very close to buying it but didn’t as I had no desire to work on other people’s horses to help pay for it and I thought it was a bit much to use just on my horse and myself. I kicked myself for not getting it then as when I decided it was worth it, the price had gone up to $12,000.
I’m very sensitive to meds, so I very seldom take anything. I could have put it to good use the last 13 years as I never thought of it as a healing machine, but for someone like me, sometimes getting pain relief is priceless. |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | runfastturnsmooth - 2018-05-11 8:37 AM
Runnincat - 2018-05-10 4:18 PM
runfastturnsmooth - 2018-05-10 1:09 PM It's not a gimmick. It does help muscle soreness. Get hurt and try it on yourself and you can feel the muscles loosen up so you can move. It's great for injury but is a lil light for some things I'd rather just go shock wave one. It's a useful tool but it doesn't do anymore than a good deep tissue massage. Also, to really relieve pain it needs to be used a few days in a row. Lots of trainers have one they use weekly for soreness from just galloping and works. It's helpful and has it's place....no gimmick. To me therapies like this can be put in the same category as mudding a horse's leg. It makes them feel slightly better.
runfastturnsmooth - you are correct! Its not a gimmick. A gimmick (in my opinion) is static field magnetic therapy NOT pulsating magnetic therapy such as the MagnaWave. I cannot proclaim its gimmickness when it comes to how we want to treat our horses but there are studies done on humans with PULSATING magnetic therapy. HUGE DIFFERENCE.Â
You usually don't see gimmicks wrote on the stall charts daily and weekly for Kentucky Derby and All American winners lol
They don't waste a groom's or assistant trainers time magna waving one b/c its a gimick....time is money to those ppl.
Does it fix a broke leg? No.
Is it gonna repair a tore tendon? No.
Is gonna make them feel better after hard works? Yes, you can visibly see and feel the difference. Especially if they have a sore neck from fighting the rig in the gates. It straight makes one be able to move eat and act normal afterwards. That's no gimmick and its a valuable therapy tool when a horse doesn't wanna eat hay drink or eat bc it's neck is sore.
Like I said, I make a distinction between pain relief and healing.
That’s a huge distinction. Think about that.
I’m always amused by people who waste tens of thousands of dollars on this therapy, yet they can’t seem to spend $150 to have their horses teeth done.
This is an amusing rebuke by a skeptic of this scam:
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/pulsed-electromagnetic-field-snake-... |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | “More research is needed” is essentially a euphemism for – the evidence is negative.
Again, I’m not saying it can’t relieve pain. There are studies that demonstrate pulsed electromagnetic therapy can reduce pain.
Don’t mistake that for improved healing. Morphine reduces pain.
Lidocaine eliminates pain. Neither of those drugs has an effect on healing. |
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Veteran
Posts: 141
| Bear - 2018-05-12 7:55 PM
runfastturnsmooth - 2018-05-11 8:37 AM
Runnincat - 2018-05-10 4:18 PM
runfastturnsmooth - 2018-05-10 1:09 PM It's not a gimmick. It does help muscle soreness. Get hurt and try it on yourself and you can feel the muscles loosen up so you can move. It's great for injury but is a lil light for some things I'd rather just go shock wave one. It's a useful tool but it doesn't do anymore than a good deep tissue massage. Also, to really relieve pain it needs to be used a few days in a row. Lots of trainers have one they use weekly for soreness from just galloping and works. It's helpful and has it's place....no gimmick. To me therapies like this can be put in the same category as mudding a horse's leg. It makes them feel slightly better.
runfastturnsmooth - you are correct! Its not a gimmick. A gimmick (in my opinion) is static field magnetic therapy NOT pulsating magnetic therapy such as the MagnaWave. I cannot proclaim its gimmickness when it comes to how we want to treat our horses but there are studies done on humans with PULSATING magnetic therapy. HUGE DIFFERENCE.Â
You usually don't see gimmicks wrote on the stall charts daily and weekly for Kentucky Derby and All American winners lol
They don't waste a groom's or assistant trainers time magna waving one b/c its a gimick....time is money to those ppl.
Does it fix a broke leg? No.
Is it gonna repair a tore tendon? No.
Is gonna make them feel better after hard works? Yes, you can visibly see and feel the difference. Especially if they have a sore neck from fighting the rig in the gates. It straight makes one be able to move eat and act normal afterwards. That's no gimmick and its a valuable therapy tool when a horse doesn't wanna eat hay drink or eat bc it's neck is sore.
I’m always amused by people who waste tens of thousands of dollars on this therapy, yet they can’t seem to spend $150 to have their horses teeth done.
Name one person like you mentioned, Ill wait...
No I wont, I would die before that. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Helga Snodgrass |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 542
| It's now being used after surgeries to help horses wake up from anesthesia easier and to stimulate blood flow. Josh at Outlaw Equine posted just yesterday about the improve in horses wake up with vs. without...
studies are currently being done with using it post op for many different surgies
i guess "further research" is needed 
ETA those links are about it curing cancer and anti-aging....this is not what trainers or vets use a magna wave for....now that beamer blanket crap yeah I'll throw that in the snake oil category but magna wave is way different
Edited by runfastturnsmooth 2018-05-13 9:08 PM
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Joe Mauer makes about $500,000 a week, year round. He can afford to buy $10-20k gimmicks on the outside chance it might make his sore knee feel better. If it doesn’t work, he can throw it away or give it away. Same with NFL quarterbacks that make 8 figure incomes. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 542
| Bear - 2018-05-13 9:41 PM
Joe Mauer makes about $500,000 a week, year round. He can afford to buy $10-20k gimmicks on the outside chance it might make his sore knee feel better. If it doesn’t work, he can throw it away or give it away. Same with NFL quarterbacks that make 8 figure incomes.
That's great  Good for those guys I guess....
Most horse ppl don't buy these to use on themselves. Most ppl don't own these machines. A vet, trainer, or equine chiro/massage/therapy person does. We vet wrap ourselves, take pain meds and go back to work.
But to say it's a gimmick for vet medicine is an inaccurate statement.
That's like saying an injection is a gimmick....
Do injections heal broken bones or tore tendons? No
Do they make a horse feel better? Yes
A magnawave treatment costs about 40-50$ per session for your horse depending on your location. That's cheaper than an antibiotic, a steroid, and a sedative. If your saying the average joe can't afford it, then the average joe can't afford injections either.
Edited by runfastturnsmooth 2018-05-14 9:59 AM
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Worlds Greatest Laugh
Location: North Dakota | While this is not a clinic study, it is a brochure that puts PEMF into more "layman's" terms. I believe I would call it healing and there is published data out there to support my belief. We are not talking magnets. Pulsating magnetic therapy is an entirely different cat. Because of how it works at a cellular level, it is my belief to classify it as healing. That doesnt mean I believe a PEMF blanket or PEMF mat would do the trick. I mean with the correct frequency, with the correct "equipment" producing a PEM field, healing would occur at a cellular level. While I wont spend time on researching studies to prove my belief, I do recommend to google "healing effects of a pulsating magnetic field" and read for yourself. I believe MagnaWave operators should be thoroughly trained as well.
http://web.orthofix.com/Products/Products/Physio-Stim/PS-1413%20PEMF%20Brochure.pdf
Edited by Runnincat 2018-05-14 11:26 AM
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | P.T. Barnum was right after all |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | If a product or treatment makes unsubstantiated claims to cure a disease or heal an injury, then I call it a gimmick.
Anecdotes and testimonials are not scientific evidence. I would love it if static magnetic therapy or pulsed electromagnetic therapy was shown to cure disease or accelerate healing to the extent that the promoters, manufacturers, or sellers claim. Unfortunately, their claims lack sound evidence.
Now if you are talking about temporary relief of pain, I think that’s quite possible. If it’s worth $50 to you, then by all means give it a try. If you find yourself wanting to use one of these often enough, then consider buying one. Like I said, don’t buy a new one. There are hundreds of minimally used machines available out there, right next to the theraplates. Maybe you can get a package deal and get a Magna wave/Theraplate combo for a big discount, since many Theraplate users are also susceptible to the same mystique. |
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Worlds Greatest Laugh
Location: North Dakota | Bear - 2018-05-14 11:36 AM If a product or treatment makes unsubstantiated claims to cure a disease or heal an injury, then I call it a gimmick. Anecdotes and testimonials are not scientific evidence. I would love it if static magnetic therapy or pulsed electromagnetic therapy was shown to cure disease or accelerate healing to the extent that the promoters, manufacturers, or sellers claim. Unfortunately, their claims lack sound evidence. Now if you are talking about temporary relief of pain, I think that’s quite possible. If it’s worth $50 to you, then by all means give it a try. If you find yourself wanting to use one of these often enough, then consider buying one. Like I said, don’t buy a new one. There are hundreds of minimally used machines available out there, right next to the theraplates. Maybe you can get a package deal and get a Magna wave/Theraplate combo for a big discount, since many Theraplate users are also susceptible to the same mystique.
Mr Bear, you have every right to your belief, which I like that you are willing to have an opinion and share it. I, however, know of certain instances in the medical field where PEM fields are being used to treat glioblastomas. I have a hard time believing this therapy is a "gimmick" as I read thru the trials and published data regarding its use for glios. But thats just me.
I also do not put PEMF and theraplates in the same sentence...okay I just did...but usually I would not. Respectfully, I would not go out and PEMF my horse with any device or operator, I take it much more serious than that. Personally, I dont know enough to call the coils a gimmick or not or the company's selling these machines we use on our horses.
My opinion is based upon understanding what a pulsating electromagnetic field does at a cellular level and how it is currently being used to help recurrent glio. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 456
Location: SW MO | Bear - 2018-05-12 7:55 PM
runfastturnsmooth - 2018-05-11 8:37 AM
Runnincat - 2018-05-10 4:18 PM
runfastturnsmooth - 2018-05-10 1:09 PM It's not a gimmick. It does help muscle soreness. Get hurt and try it on yourself and you can feel the muscles loosen up so you can move. It's great for injury but is a lil light for some things I'd rather just go shock wave one. It's a useful tool but it doesn't do anymore than a good deep tissue massage. Also, to really relieve pain it needs to be used a few days in a row. Lots of trainers have one they use weekly for soreness from just galloping and works. It's helpful and has it's place....no gimmick. To me therapies like this can be put in the same category as mudding a horse's leg. It makes them feel slightly better.
runfastturnsmooth - you are correct! Its not a gimmick. A gimmick (in my opinion) is static field magnetic therapy NOT pulsating magnetic therapy such as the MagnaWave. I cannot proclaim its gimmickness when it comes to how we want to treat our horses but there are studies done on humans with PULSATING magnetic therapy. HUGE DIFFERENCE.Â
You usually don't see gimmicks wrote on the stall charts daily and weekly for Kentucky Derby and All American winners lol
They don't waste a groom's or assistant trainers time magna waving one b/c its a gimick....time is money to those ppl.
Does it fix a broke leg? No.
Is it gonna repair a tore tendon? No.
Is gonna make them feel better after hard works? Yes, you can visibly see and feel the difference. Especially if they have a sore neck from fighting the rig in the gates. It straight makes one be able to move eat and act normal afterwards. That's no gimmick and its a valuable therapy tool when a horse doesn't wanna eat hay drink or eat bc it's neck is sore.
Like I said, I make a distinction between pain relief and healing.
That’s a huge distinction. Think about that.
I’m always amused by people who waste tens of thousands of dollars on this therapy, yet they can’t seem to spend $150 to have their horses teeth done.
This is an amusing rebuke by a skeptic of this scam:
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/pulsed-electromagnetic-field-snake-...
Agreed with the "relief vs healing". I have used it on multiple horses, and myself. I had back surgery a few years ago and used it before and after the surgery. It did not heal my back, just provided some temporary relief. |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Mzbradford - 2018-05-14 12:13 PM
Bear - 2018-05-12 7:55 PM
runfastturnsmooth - 2018-05-11 8:37 AM
Runnincat - 2018-05-10 4:18 PM
runfastturnsmooth - 2018-05-10 1:09 PM It's not a gimmick. It does help muscle soreness. Get hurt and try it on yourself and you can feel the muscles loosen up so you can move. It's great for injury but is a lil light for some things I'd rather just go shock wave one. It's a useful tool but it doesn't do anymore than a good deep tissue massage. Also, to really relieve pain it needs to be used a few days in a row. Lots of trainers have one they use weekly for soreness from just galloping and works. It's helpful and has it's place....no gimmick. To me therapies like this can be put in the same category as mudding a horse's leg. It makes them feel slightly better.
runfastturnsmooth - you are correct! Its not a gimmick. A gimmick (in my opinion) is static field magnetic therapy NOT pulsating magnetic therapy such as the MagnaWave. I cannot proclaim its gimmickness when it comes to how we want to treat our horses but there are studies done on humans with PULSATING magnetic therapy. HUGE DIFFERENCE.Â
You usually don't see gimmicks wrote on the stall charts daily and weekly for Kentucky Derby and All American winners lol
They don't waste a groom's or assistant trainers time magna waving one b/c its a gimick....time is money to those ppl.
Does it fix a broke leg? No.
Is it gonna repair a tore tendon? No.
Is gonna make them feel better after hard works? Yes, you can visibly see and feel the difference. Especially if they have a sore neck from fighting the rig in the gates. It straight makes one be able to move eat and act normal afterwards. That's no gimmick and its a valuable therapy tool when a horse doesn't wanna eat hay drink or eat bc it's neck is sore.
Like I said, I make a distinction between pain relief and healing.
That’s a huge distinction. Think about that.
I’m always amused by people who waste tens of thousands of dollars on this therapy, yet they can’t seem to spend $150 to have their horses teeth done.
This is an amusing rebuke by a skeptic of this scam:
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/pulsed-electromagnetic-field-snake-...
Agreed with the "relief vs healing". I have used it on multiple horses, and myself. I had back surgery a few years ago and used it before and after the surgery. It did not heal my back, just provided some temporary relief.
I can see where things like this can offer temporary relief of pain.
I’m not some science “purist” myself, in fact. I just happen to believe that sound scientific principles based on the scientific method, logic, reason, facts, and analysis are very powerful tools.
I happen to THINK magnetic blankets might make my horse feel better, but I cannot say that sound scientific evidence supports my notion. My magnetic blanket might cost $300, and I was willing to give it a try.
There are a lot of people out there selling junk science for profit, and good for them, but when I recognize it on a thread like this I feel obligated to comment...not for my own good, but to serve as a warning to anyone willing to listen. Many times in these instances, the promoters of these dubious modalities will be outraged by my comments.
Why? Because they, or their friends, are selling the gimmick or snake oil. |
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 Expert
Posts: 5290
| runfastturnsmooth - 2018-05-14 5:42 AM
Bear - 2018-05-13 9:41 PM
Joe Mauer makes about $500,000 a week, year round. He can afford to buy $10-20k gimmicks on the outside chance it might make his sore knee feel better. If it doesn’t work, he can throw it away or give it away. Same with NFL quarterbacks that make 8 figure incomes.
That's great Good for those guys I guess....
Most horse ppl don't buy these to use on themselves. Most ppl don't own these machines. A vet, trainer, or equine chiro/massage/therapy person does. We vet wrap ourselves, take pain meds and go back to work.
But to say it's a gimmick for vet medicine is an inaccurate statement.
That's like saying an injection is a gimmick....
Do injections heal broken bones or tore tendons? No
Do they make a horse feel better? Yes
A magnawave treatment costs about 40-50$ per session for your horse depending on your location. That's cheaper than an antibiotic, a steroid, and a sedative. If your saying the average joe can't afford it, then the average joe can't afford injections either.
Naw, antibiotics are cheap ( The ones my vet gave me are 100.00 for 500 pills), Steroids are REALLY CHEAP 100cc bottle of Dex cost me 9.00, and Sedatives are in the Middle. My bottle of Ace (50cc bottle) cost me 19.00. The difference is, those medications WORK and money well spent. |
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