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 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
     
Location: Broxton, Ga | 3canstorun - 2018-10-14 10:25 AM Odd person out here, I believe what the original poster is saying - not about legal drugs, they said that. They aren't talking about lasik, etc.
And they are old enough and have worked at enough vet's offices to know the difference. (I know this person) between a legally used drug or not.
Whether people like to admit it or not, there is abuse of drugs in the barrel horse world. Also the race horse world. Thus, the reason most racing venues have gone to hair testing.
And, as usual, if you don't like it, stay home, will be most of the answers on here.
But, putting your head in the sand and pretending it is all legal, will only get your eyes full of sand.
Truth........... | |
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Veteran
Posts: 203
Location: kansas | This weekend I was one of those persons having to mainline my horse, twice everyday to be exact. Was it because I was at a barrel race? No, it was because of my horse having an eye abscess earlier in the week. So my vet and I have a game plan in place and for the next two weeks she will be getting 3 different medications in her eye and banamine twice a day to prevent what he referred to would be a headache. So not always can you judge, giving a horse a shot can be for a multitude of reasons. | |
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Veteran
Posts: 277
| RaNdI sUe - 2018-10-16 12:55 PM
This weekend I was one of those persons having to mainline my horse, twice everyday to be exact. Was it because I was at a barrel race? No, it was because of my horse having an eye abscess earlier in the week. So my vet and I have a game plan in place and for the next two weeks she will be getting 3 different medications in her eye and banamine twice a day to prevent what he referred to would be a headache. So not always can you judge, giving a horse a shot can be for a multitude of reasons.
But you weren't at a barrel race, right? And you were treating a medical condition? Totally different story.... | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1520
Location: Illinois | Meep.Meep - 2018-10-16 1:13 PM
RaNdI sUe - 2018-10-16 12:55 PM
This weekend I was one of those persons having to mainline my horse, twice everyday to be exact. Was it because I was at a barrel race? No, it was because of my horse having an eye abscess earlier in the week. So my vet and I have a game plan in place and for the next two weeks she will be getting 3 different medications in her eye and banamine twice a day to prevent what he referred to would be a headache. So not always can you judge, giving a horse a shot can be for a multitude of reasons.
But you weren't at a barrel race, right? And you were treating a medical condition? Totally different story....
I think the poster was stating that the reason she was giving the drugs wasn't related to the barrel race, but she was in attendance still? At least that's how I read it.
If you're standing in a stall with a needle stuck in their neck, whoever sees it is just going to assume she's giving something that is relevant to he running. I'm one of those people who you can find at a race with a needle, my horse is a bleeder and requires lasix. Or banamine at times, which is perfectly fine to give. Many of us stall our horses at weekend races and many of those horses aren't used to being stalled for days. You can bet I'm going to give mine a little banamine, bute, previcox, or whatever to keep them comfortable. If we all had to stand on concrete in a closet for 48 hours we'd do some sketchy things for an advil, why shouldn't we treat our horses the same. I don't pay attention to what people give their horses, that is their business. Just because you wouldn't give it to your horse or you don't like it, doesn't mean it's wrong. Yes there are things that I think people are insane for trying, but it's their horse, their business. I've known people to give cocaine and all everyone is talking about in my area right now is cobra venom for whatever reason. I don't choose to ask about it, but that's not saying I don't care. That's just me saying it's not my business. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 5293
| RaNdI sUe - 2018-10-16 10:55 AM
This weekend I was one of those persons having to mainline my horse, twice everyday to be exact. Was it because I was at a barrel race? No, it was because of my horse having an eye abscess earlier in the week. So my vet and I have a game plan in place and for the next two weeks she will be getting 3 different medications in her eye and banamine twice a day to prevent what he referred to would be a headache. So not always can you judge, giving a horse a shot can be for a multitude of reasons.
If I had to give that much banamine, twice a day for an extended period of time, I would use the paste. Those poor sore veins!!! That would make a horse hate ya real fast.. lol | |
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Veteran
Posts: 277
| JLazyT_perf_horses - 2018-10-16 1:57 PM
Meep.Meep - 2018-10-16 1:13 PM
RaNdI sUe - 2018-10-16 12:55 PM
This weekend I was one of those persons having to mainline my horse, twice everyday to be exact. Was it because I was at a barrel race? No, it was because of my horse having an eye abscess earlier in the week. So my vet and I have a game plan in place and for the next two weeks she will be getting 3 different medications in her eye and banamine twice a day to prevent what he referred to would be a headache. So not always can you judge, giving a horse a shot can be for a multitude of reasons.
But you weren't at a barrel race, right? And you were treating a medical condition? Totally different story....
I think the poster was stating that the reason she was giving the drugs wasn't related to the barrel race, but she was in attendance still? At least that's how I read it.
If you're standing in a stall with a needle stuck in their neck, whoever sees it is just going to assume she's giving something that is relevant to he running. I'm one of those people who you can find at a race with a needle, my horse is a bleeder and requires lasix. Or banamine at times, which is perfectly fine to give. Many of us stall our horses at weekend races and many of those horses aren't used to being stalled for days. You can bet I'm going to give mine a little banamine, bute, previcox, or whatever to keep them comfortable. If we all had to stand on concrete in a closet for 48 hours we'd do some sketchy things for an advil, why shouldn't we treat our horses the same. I don't pay attention to what people give their horses, that is their business. Just because you wouldn't give it to your horse or you don't like it, doesn't mean it's wrong. Yes there are things that I think people are insane for trying, but it's their horse, their business. I've known people to give cocaine and all everyone is talking about in my area right now is cobra venom for whatever reason. I don't choose to ask about it, but that's not saying I don't care. That's just me saying it's not my business.
I hope it wasn't at a race, going to a barrel race while treating such a condition would be really irresponsible IMO
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| My take on this, I understand preventative care type. Lasix (never had a bleeder that I am aware of) is essential to those who need it, I am also not opposed to a gram of bute on a long weekend in a stall, etc. However, I am in the mindset for myself, I do not take meds unless absolutely necessary. I believe many people and not all but a lot of people would rather give their horses something to improve performance instead of changing conditioning routine or walking their horses several times a day or resting when needed. They take the easiest route which DOES bother me. I know people who give 2-4 grams of bute per day to help horses with hock pain (some are injecting and some aren't) which I don't agree with. If you horse isn't sustainable on injections, I do believe 2-4 grams of bute will hinder lameness and you're asking a horse to wear and tear on something that is causing pain.
Believe me, I have sat out A LOT of races due to injury, its not worth it for me to risk my horses for one race. | |
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Veteran
Posts: 277
| stayceem - 2018-10-16 3:26 PM
My take on this, I understand preventative care type. Lasix (never had a bleeder that I am aware of) is essential to those who need it, I am also not opposed to a gram of bute on a long weekend in a stall, etc. However, I am in the mindset for myself, I do not take meds unless absolutely necessary. I believe many people and not all but a lot of people would rather give their horses something to improve performance instead of changing conditioning routine or walking their horses several times a day or resting when needed. They take the easiest route which DOES bother me. I know people who give 2-4 grams of bute per day to help horses with hock pain (some are injecting and some aren't) which I don't agree with. If you horse isn't sustainable on injections, I do believe 2-4 grams of bute will hinder lameness and you're asking a horse to wear and tear on something that is causing pain.
Believe me, I have sat out A LOT of races due to injury, its not worth it for me to risk my horses for one race.
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Expert
Posts: 1520
Location: Illinois | stayceem - 2018-10-16 3:26 PM
My take on this, I understand preventative care type. Lasix (never had a bleeder that I am aware of) is essential to those who need it, I am also not opposed to a gram of bute on a long weekend in a stall, etc. However, I am in the mindset for myself, I do not take meds unless absolutely necessary. I believe many people and not all but a lot of people would rather give their horses something to improve performance instead of changing conditioning routine or walking their horses several times a day or resting when needed. They take the easiest route which DOES bother me. I know people who give 2-4 grams of bute per day to help horses with hock pain (some are injecting and some aren't) which I don't agree with. If you horse isn't sustainable on injections, I do believe 2-4 grams of bute will hinder lameness and you're asking a horse to wear and tear on something that is causing pain.
Believe me, I have sat out A LOT of races due to injury, its not worth it for me to risk my horses for one race.
I agree with you. But I'm a fairly heavy user of advil myself, so I'm kind of opposite on the human side lol. I give mine equioxx when I haul because of his navicular. When he's stalled or tied to the trailer all day I walk him as close to every hour as I can all day long. In his daily life he's fully sound and fine, but it's the inability for him to move around when he needs to that I give it to him for added peace of mind to keep him comfortable. When I do that I have to give him omeprazole every day that I give it because for mine at least one day of equioxx (previcox), bute, or banamine in his gut creates a full on ulcer war every time. So then I'm giving mine lasix, 2 kinds of paste, and a pill each day to run in the 3/4D. Imagine how that would look to someone who didn't know what I was giving & why, they just assume my horse is probably crippled. None if it makes him run any faster though, which would be nice in a perfect world.
I've sat out a few this year when he's had to be stalled due to weather and has come up lame. I don't ever use it to cover up something so I can go run. But I do know a few who give their horses bute because they don't want to pay for injections. For me a hock injection is cheaper than the amount of bute I'd need for a year. One girl locally isn't even a teen yet and her horse is either 13 or 14 (can't remember)and it lives on 4g of bute a day just to stay sound. All their horses have ended up that way and none last longer than 2 years with them. This one is incredibly nice and it's sad that she's ended up this way. I hate those types of people more than anyone else giving drugs & the famous cocktails. I also know people who run their horses on 6cc of ace because they're so blown up, but they don't stop. My horses for sure wouldn't even be standing at that rate. Those are also people I'm not a fan of. Mainly I just don't like people who see someone with a needle and automatically assume we're giving them some kind of voodoo magic potion | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 516
| 3canstorun - 2018-10-15 9:25 AM
Odd person out here, I believe what the original poster is saying - not about legal drugs, they said that. They aren't talking about lasik, etc.Â
And they are old enough and have worked at enough vet's offices to know the difference. (I know this person) between a legally used drug or not.Â
Whether people like to admit it or not, there is abuse of drugs in the barrel horse world. Also the race horse world. Thus, the reason most racing venues have gone to hair testing.Â
And, as usual, if you don't like it, stay home, will be most of the answers on here.Â
But, putting your head in the sand and pretending it is all legal, will only get your eyes full of sand.Â
Â
Did I miss the part where they said they were talking only about illegal drugs? All I saw was the mention of "veining", which could mean injecting anything..
I also believe what another poster was getting at; do we really think if these horses are being drugged heavily at every race or rodeo, that they're going to be able to get away with it long enough to be successful and not have lasting effects? We see broken down racehorses that had their 15 minutes of fame all the time, but not nearly as many barrel horses. Yes, there are some. I'm NOT saying there aren't any, but if you look at most of the top people, their horses are still going strong years later. I don't think illegal drug use is as prevalent as the OP thinks. | |
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Good Ole Boys just Fine with Me
Posts: 2869
Location: SE Missouri | I’m on both sides of this issue.
I was at a big barrel race that also had AQHA barrels. The people stalled next to us came for those classes. They left their 2- 30cc syringes per horse with needles capped but attached on the ground in their pile of horses **** in FRONT of their stalls! Except one stall, they were so kind to push it in front of my tack stall. It was pretty frustrating to see the lack of responsibility to just leave that for someone else to deal with.
On the other hand, I was finishing IV antibiotics 2x a day at the last race. I don’t like how it looks bc it was a large dose. I get up early to give it before there’s a ton of people out and in the evening try to be as discreet as possible.
I’ve given all kinds of meds IV as that horse needed. If they need it AND you’ve done your homework or been instructed by your vet do your thing and clean up your mess. I eat ibuprofen like candy at times especially if I can’t get to the chiro in time. Should i probably get my core strength up to par so a I didn’t battle back issues as much- yep. Is it gonna stop me from going to a race in the mean time- nope.
That’s how I feel about the drugs- make sure you aren’t band aiding something that you haven’t checked out or addressed. Learn how to hit a vein properly and be discreet. | |
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Miracle in the Making
Posts: 4013
| r_beau - 2018-10-15 11:38 AM run,run,run - 2018-10-14 9:31 AM I'm going to rant here, but I'm so tired of seeing people at races veining their horses! Yes - I realize they may need some pain meds but seriously - if they hurt that bad why are they running them? This is not the NFR! I go to races of 180-600 riders and over the last few years, I have seen more and more people injecting iv's into their horses than one can shake a stick at! Yesterday, across the alley I hear this rider say to another 'he's been running like a deadhead' then the next thing you see is someone else drawing up a cocktail. This morning at 6:30 am I hear commotion and two alleys over, a rider is chasing the horse around the stall and I ask my husband if the rider is veining her horse - he looks and sure enough that's what they were doing, and the horse was tired of the 'misses' with the needle. I've been around the block a time or two so I'm not some newbie or novice to the sport - but in my opinion if the horse doesn't have the mind for it, or isn't running like you want, or any other thing people vein for.........perhaps try a new horse! How many riders do you see out there are really qualified to know what drug they need for their horse? And quite honestly - shame on the vets that sell them the drugs! I'm done now - need to go get ready.......everyone will have their own opinion - I didn't post to start anything I just needed to rant for a moment! Curious: How do you know WHAT they are injecting the horse with? How do you know it's not (for example) Lasix?
when i was at track in 60 70 it was retlin and what those pills for heart attacks the some would blow weed up the nose
only thing i gave at shows was banamine as i take tynenol i know they get stall sore. at the shows as all mine stayed in pasture
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 324
| I can see both sides of the argument here...
On one hand, I have known a few barrel racers who Ace, Banamine, or both before a run just because "he won't fire if he thinks he might hurt anywhere." which I disagree with on a fundamental level.
On the other hand, drugs like Lasix are essential to bleeders, and bleeders are a lot more common than I ever previously thought. I can also justify giving some bute/banamine when they have to be stalled 3 days on concrete.
Everything is completely circumstantial so I mind my own business because people are going to do what people are going to do, so there is no use getting bent out of shape about the actions of others that do not affect you in any way. If it isn't my horse, or my vet bill, it isn't my business.
**Side note: unless you're running at a major, big money-added race, it's highly unlikely that anyone would IV illegal, performance-enhancing drugs... Most people are reasonable enough to realize that it isn't worth potentially crippling or killing your horse for a $200 check... | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 542
| Oh for heaven sakes alive
If they are giving a jug of electrolytes with some DMSO in a a giant 60 cc syringe,bute, dex, banamine, lasix/iodine, Kentucky red, or whatever their cocktail of choice it truly isn't gonna make them a whole D faster. It will however give a wore out horse with achy joints that has hauled long miles and is standing on concrete 3-4 days some relieve similar to you taking an electrolyte gel and some Tylenol though. It is tacky and irresponsible to dispose of syringes anywhere but a sharps container, which most arenas now have at the end of shed rows/breeze ways. If they can't give IV shots then they need to get NSAID powder/paste and give their lasix in the muscle.
Be more worried about drug abuse that is going on orally and weeks prior to an actual show such as inhaled bronchial dilators, equipoise, and fed through clenbuterol/abuterol. These are drugs that will actually make horses run significantly faster, more prone to injury due to the fact they are using themselves so intensely, and something that a barrel racer who attends open shows could actually get their hands on.
I legit thought this post was gonna be about recreational mary jane use while camping out. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 350
| the cheating is OUT OF CONTROL! There are no rules folks! | |
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 The Worst Seller Ever
Posts: 4138
Location: Oklahoma | Kinda OT, but all this complaining people do about crap they no nothing about is NOT good for the industry. There will be people who cheat/try to cheat no matter where you are in life.
we don't need any mroe regulations or costs to the races we already attend. If you are worried ask!
I have given lasix, b12, ventipulm, previcox, and banamine (not of which are illegal) to keep my horse healthy and sound on the long rodeo road. 
Edited by clover girl 2018-10-19 8:16 AM
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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
| lucky2 - 2018-10-18 8:58 PM
the cheating is OUT OF CONTROL! There are no rules folks!
 Just what we need.... More rules... More rules for the 99% of people that don't cheat and the 1% that do will just keep finding new ways to continue cheating. | |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| **Cowgirl Up** - 2018-10-18 3:05 PM
I can see both sides of the argument here...
On one hand, I have known a few barrel racers who Ace, Banamine, or both before a run just because "he won't fire if he thinks he might hurt anywhere." which I disagree with on a fundamental level.
On the other hand, drugs like Lasix are essential to bleeders, and bleeders are a lot more common than I ever previously thought. I can also justify giving some bute/banamine when they have to be stalled 3 days on concrete.Â
Everything is completely circumstantial so I mind my own business because people are going to do what people are going to do, so there is no use getting bent out of shape about the actions of others that do not affect you in any way. If it isn't my horse, or my vet bill, it isn't my business.
**Side note: unless you're running at a major, big money-added race, it's highly unlikely that anyone would IV illegal, performance-enhancing drugs... Most people are reasonable enough to realize that it isn't worth potentially crippling or killing your horse for a $200 check...Â
You would think so but the medium size fish in a small pond are the ones I see shooting in their horses the most often. They’ll tell you “Well, this what so and so does and she/he is a big time trainer/rider.” They are sure they are one illegal drug away from the big win because they run a name brand horse and are such good a rider themselves so the difference MUST be drugs. One reason there are so many blown up barrel horses. | |
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  Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | I've not read all the comments.....
But the facts are the same no matter which side you are on.....there are drugs in barrel racing. Some well founded needed medications, some not so needed meds but not necessarily illegal, and some really nasty stuff.
You cannot stop it, you cannot control it, so you have to make a decision for yourself.
I was stopped at a race a few years ago and asked how much it cost me to drug my horse, and to this day I still haven't a clue what drugs they were referring to. He just happened to be winning often at the time.
So you just go and you run and enjoy what you have into it. If you truly wanted a system that would control or prevent drugs in barrel racing, then we all would have issues affording the new entry fees producers would have to charge to cover the cost of drug testing and enforcement. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 602
| Let those individuals worry about themselves. It’s not affecting you or your horses. | |
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