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 Expert
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Location: Missouri | Bear - 2019-01-24 5:19 PM
I’m against the death penalty, but that being said, I’m astonished at how liberals are so concerned that lethal injection, as a form of capital punishment is considered cruel and unusual punishment for a mass murderer but totally unconcerned with killing a 28 month old baby with KCl, or simply ripping it out piecemeal, or pithing it like a frog to be dissected in biology class. You never hear them decry those barbaric, ghoulish, practices. What’s just as bad is the limp wristed so- called “conservatives” who are too scared to point out their hypocrisy.
There a lot of hypocritical things about libs that I quite simply do not understand. This, most definitely, being one of them.
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| MOGirl07 - 2019-01-24 6:21 PM Bear - 2019-01-24 5:19 PM I’m against the death penalty, but that being said, I’m astonished at how liberals are so concerned that lethal injection, as a form of capital punishment is considered cruel and unusual punishment for a mass murderer but totally unconcerned with killing a 28 month old baby with KCl, or simply ripping it out piecemeal, or pithing it like a frog to be dissected in biology class. You never hear them decry those barbaric, ghoulish, practices. What’s just as bad is the limp wristed so- called “conservatives” who are too scared to point out their hypocrisy. There a lot of hypocritical things about libs that I quite simply do not understand. This, most definitely, being one of them.
I agree, when doing in utero surgery on babies they have to give them pain meds but it’s not barbaric to give them legal injections that can take up to 24 hours to kill the baby then the mother delivers a dead infant. | |
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 Total Germophobe
Posts: 6437
Location: Montana | Okay, this is an area that touches me closely. Personally, no matter what the law is (and I think it is wrong, I also feel that this is not something that should be legislated), how can we as women not see a 8 month old baby as a living child? Or even a 24 week old/6 month old baby as a living child? I'm not saying we shouldn't have reproductive rights. My personal belief is life begins at conception. But at this point in the game I'm afraid the government will come along and try to say when life does in fact begin and then it will put a whole other dog in the fight.
Edited by mtcanchazer 2019-01-25 9:53 AM
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"Heck's Coming With Me"
Posts: 10794
Location: Kansas | If I remember right, the very liberal Planned Parenthood is into harvesting the organs and tissue of dead infants. The lure of easy money and possibly some of the reasoning behind this new law.
Edited by Frodo 2019-01-24 8:01 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 705
Location: Weatherford, TX | mtcanchazer - 2019-01-24 7:54 PM Okay, this is an area that touches me closely. Personally, no matter what the law is (and I think it is wrong, I also feel that this is not something that should not be legislated), how can we as women not see a 8 month old baby as a living child? Or even a 24 week old/6 month old baby as a living child? I'm not saying we shouldn't have reproductive rights. My personal belief is life begins at conception. But at this point in the game I'm afraid the government will come along and try to say when life does in fact begin and then it will put a whole other dog in the fight.
I agree...this touches me closely as well. I've been reluctant so far to say what I am going say.
I have always been a Conservative. I guess the kind where they say 'conservative fiscally and a little lighter on social issues'. At that time, I was like that for abortion and pro-choice - with the caveat if the abortion was done early, like before 6-8 weeks, maybe even 12 weeks. I was like this from the early 80's until about 2012-13. That was when the gruesome, horrendous details of the impending Gosnell Trial started to come to light.
Back when, I was not of the 'conception' theory. If an abortion was done in 6-8 weeks, it was nothing. However, when the details started to come out about Gosnell doing suction/drug abortion methods on babies within the 24 weeks PA Law and aftter, that was repulsive enough. These were same type of babies at gestation that IF people would want them, would spend thousands of dollars trying to save! They were viable!
I had my 'pivot point' or 'ahh-haa' moment during that Gosnell trial. What is a baby? I had to be logical. Is it not a baby at 23-1/2 weeks and stay under that 24 week abortion limit? No, that's not right. Is 12 weeks ok? No. I just drove myself nuts, turning my previously held opinion on its head.
At that point, when I kept backing up the time frame...the only that made sense was the point of conception. At the point of conception, exactly what else will it end up being but a human baby? A Buick? I don't think so.
That Gosnell trial got to and through to me more than any protestor on either side of the abortion issue could have ever done. However, I had to have my 'pivot point' and critically think very hard.
I followed that Trial extremely close. It was gruesome and awful. But, it did make me actually think logically and go through it by detail/timing.
If you don't think something like that Gosnell Trial can happen again on that scale or a bigger one based on how this NY Law is written...you are sadly mistaken.
I hope that all made sense.
ETA...I never had kids/babies, didn't really want them (too selfish with horses). However, found out in my late 30's that I never would have been able to.
Edited by Gator Bug 2019-01-24 9:05 PM
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 Lived to tell about it and will never do it again
Posts: 5408
| I think a women does have a right to choose, she has the right to choose to have sex or not, knowing that the outcome could produce a baby. It is called being responsible and accepting the responsibility. Yes I know that in some cases the women has no choice such as in rape. Yes maybe it isn't fair that men can have sex and not worry about what happens. No one ever said life is fair and just maybe Women were choosen to be the oven for life to cook in because God thought we were the best choice and that men couldn't handle the job. Silly thought but still. That is just my personal take on the subject, take it with a grain of salt. | |
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Lived to tell about it and will never do it again
Posts: 5408
| Bear - 2019-01-24 9:58 PM .
LOL, is that your little grain of salt I see? LOL | |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I was trying to post a photo but it’s too large | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | This is my oldest daughter, Leslie. When her mother and I were engaged, I was 19, and she was 17. Her parents refused to support our decision to get married, understandably, but we were too determined....and too stupid. We had to wait until her mother was 18, so we set date for about 4-5 months after her 18th birthday. As fate would have it, we found out Leslie's mother was pregnant about a month before her 18th birthday. To avoid embarrassment, she wanted to have an abortion. Also, her mom was a very good student and had career aspirations of her own, and having a baby while trying to get through college was going to be a challenge.
Realize I was a very naive, foolish, idealistic, stubborn young man at the time as well. For some reason, in this particular instance, my better judgement prevailed. I strongly opposed the notion of an abortion. Something in me could not allow me to justify it. We fought like cats and dogs over it, until one day I told her that if she had an abortion, I would not marry her. I know...it almost sounds a little bass ackwards, but that's how it went. She got mad at me and threw her engagement ring down the street and drove away. I searched for the ring and found it and a day later she came back to me, and I asked her again on bended knee. This time, she decided to keep the baby. Wherever I went, Leslie was usually perched on my shoulders until she became too big....then she just clung to my hand.
About 13 years later we ended up divorcing, but I ended up with custody of our kids, so I raised them as a single parent. Leslie is different from the other two in a couple ways. One is that because I was only 20 when she was born, in some ways we were oddly almost like siblings. She stole my sweaters, my car, my ice cream, etc... When she tried out for cheerleading, I was there...along with about 30 moms. When she broke up with her boyfriend in college, I was the one whose shoulder she cried on. When she ever had a dilemma or question about anything, I was the one she called first. When I made rounds at the hospital, she often went along with me and chatted with the nurses. I guess they all thought it was cute, or something like that. Sometimes she would call me and I could tell she needed some time with her dad, so I would have her come home and make her favorite meal....prime rib. Afterwards, we'd watch a movie, and the next day her batteries would be charged and she would return to work or school the next day. What I'm trying to say is that I love all my kids very dearly. They are all uniquely special for different reasons. With Leslie she was and remains my special first born baby girl. When Leslie was screwing up during her first year of college, I gave her an ultimatum. Either she get a minimum of a B average, or I would no longer pay for her room, board, and tuition. She didn't take me seriously, so I gave her one last option....return home, get a job, and pay for all her own expenses for 6 months. She quickly realized that life as a dress shop clerk was not going to cut it for her.
She returned to college, but I made her take out a loan for some of her tuition and books.
This time around she got straight A's.
The photo was taken when she was married, about 12 years ago. She and her husband, Mike, have blessed me with 2 beautiful grandchildren. Leslie is a VP for Wells Fargo, and they live in Minneapolis.
She could have been an abortion. I shudder to think of the ripple effect....no memories, no grandkids, nothing.
Edited by Bear 2019-01-24 11:43 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1395
Location: Missouri | Frodo - 2019-01-24 8:00 PM
If I remember right, the very liberal Planned Parenthood is into harvesting the organs and tissue of dead infants. The lure of easy money and possibly some of the reasoning behind this new law.
Â
This fact never gets enough media attention.....if any. They quite simply want the masses to remain ignorant of it.
Someone shared a photo of babies who had been aborted on fb yesterday. Not knowing what it was, I uncovered the sensitive content and just about vomited.
The need to save the life of a mother is so incredibly rare. I believe the statistic of those abortions COMBINED with abortions of babies conceived out of rape are like 2%.
If you believe that a woman should always have the right to choose, you have a right to your opinion, I respect that, I do.
I just cant begin to fathom it.....how anyone could actually pull the trigger on it....go through with it. It makes me ill. Our choices have consequences (the other 98% of abortions) and when we make choices, we have to face the consequences. Can't keep the baby? Adopt. I know I make it all sound so incredibly simple from my life view but....yeah, I feel that strongly about it. Just my two cents.
That said. I would never judge a woman who went through one....I cannot imagine the guilt and grief one must feel afterwards. It simply breaks my heart at the thought of a child (at 4 weeks or 39 weeks) being ripped from its mother's womb. :( | |
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  Fact Checker
Posts: 16572
Location: Displaced Iowegian | FOX NEWS ..........
Under the Reproductive Health Act, non-doctors are now allowed to conduct abortions and the procedure could be done until the mother's due date if the woman's health is endangered or if the fetus is not viable. The previous law only allowed abortions after 24 weeks of pregnancy if a woman's life was at risk.
I am more concerned with the phrase .... "non-doctor" !!!!
I want to believe that doctor's would have more integrity regarding the TRUE issue of the woman's health or fetus viability before performing an abortion. | |
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Total Germophobe
Posts: 6437
Location: Montana | Gator Bug - 2019-01-24 7:37 PM mtcanchazer - 2019-01-24 7:54 PM Okay, this is an area that touches me closely. Personally, no matter what the law is (and I think it is wrong, I also feel that this is not something that should not be legislated), how can we as women not see a 8 month old baby as a living child? Or even a 24 week old/6 month old baby as a living child? I'm not saying we shouldn't have reproductive rights. My personal belief is life begins at conception. But at this point in the game I'm afraid the government will come along and try to say when life does in fact begin and then it will put a whole other dog in the fight. I agree...this touches me closely as well. I've been reluctant so far to say what I am going say.
I have always been a Conservative. I guess the kind where they say 'conservative fiscally and a little lighter on social issues'. At that time, I was like that for abortion and pro-choice - with the caveat if the abortion was done early, like before 6-8 weeks, maybe even 12 weeks. I was like this from the early 80's until about 2012-13. That was when the gruesome, horrendous details of the impending Gosnell Trial started to come to light.
Back when, I was not of the 'conception' theory. If an abortion was done in 6-8 weeks, it was nothing. However, when the details started to come out about Gosnell doing suction/drug abortion methods on babies within the 24 weeks PA Law and aftter, that was repulsive enough. These were same type of babies at gestation that IF people would want them, would spend thousands of dollars trying to save! They were viable!
I had my 'pivot point' or 'ahh-haa' moment during that Gosnell trial. What is a baby? I had to be logical. Is it not a baby at 23-1/2 weeks and stay under that 24 week abortion limit? No, that's not right. Is 12 weeks ok? No. I just drove myself nuts, turning my previously held opinion on its head.
At that point, when I kept backing up the time frame...the only that made sense was the point of conception. At the point of conception, exactly what else will it end up being but a human baby? A Buick? I don't think so.
That Gosnell trial got to and through to me more than any protestor on either side of the abortion issue could have ever done. However, I had to have my 'pivot point' and critically think very hard.
I followed that Trial extremely close. It was gruesome and awful. But, it did make me actually think logically and go through it by detail/timing.
If you don't think something like that Gosnell Trial can happen again on that scale or a bigger one based on how this NY Law is written...you are sadly mistaken.
I hope that all made sense.
ETA...I never had kids/babies, didn't really want them (too selfish with horses). However, found out in my late 30's that I never would have been able to.
The person who said that we have a right to choose...whether to have sex or not...you are absolutely right. We also have a right to choose condoms or other forms of birth control too, and if we choose not too, abortion, especially late term, isn't a form of birth control, it is a form of murder.
Bear: Thank you for the story of your daughter! You truly show how important life is and I'm glad you shared. :)
Edited by mtcanchazer 2019-01-25 10:09 AM
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | NJJ - 2019-01-25 9:54 AM
FOX NEWS ..........
Under the Reproductive Health Act, non-doctors are now allowed to conduct abortions and the procedure could be done until the mother's due date if the woman's health is endangered or if the fetus is not viable. The previous law only allowed abortions after 24 weeks of pregnancy if a woman's life was at risk.
IÂ am more concerned with the phrase .... "non-doctor" !!!!
IÂ want to believe that doctor's would have more integrity regarding the TRUE issue of the woman's health or fetus viability before performing an abortion.Â
They are referring to mid level providers, like PA’s and NP’s.
For the most part, mid level providers can be trained to do a lot of straightforward procedures. I don’t have a problem with that.
I could teach a janitor to do some operations. Where I have a problem is when they encounter serious complications that requires experience and sufficient training to recognize and treat.....all in a timely manner.
The last time I looked up indications/reasons for late term abortion I saw a wide array of reasons cited. Things like: stress, depression, anxiety, financial hardships, breakups, etc.... You don’t have to have a lot of imagination to see where many of these excuses/reasons will morph under the category of “health risk to the mother”....ie: mental health-depression-anxiety. Things like that will be easy to “document”. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 705
Location: Weatherford, TX | Bear - 2019-01-25 10:27 AM NJJ - 2019-01-25 9:54 AM FOX NEWS ..........
Under the Reproductive Health Act, non-doctors are now allowed to conduct abortions and the procedure could be done until the mother's due date if the woman's health is endangered or if the fetus is not viable. The previous law only allowed abortions after 24 weeks of pregnancy if a woman's life was at risk.
I am more concerned with the phrase .... "non-doctor" !!!!
I want to believe that doctor's would have more integrity regarding the TRUE issue of the woman's health or fetus viability before performing an abortion. They are referring to mid level providers, like PA’s and NP’s. For the most part, mid level providers can be trained to do a lot of straightforward procedures. I don’t have a problem with that. I could teach a janitor to do some operations. Where I have a problem is when they encounter serious complications that requires experience and sufficient training to recognize and treat.....all in a timely manner. The last time I looked up indications/reasons for late term abortion I saw a wide array of reasons cited. Things like: stress, depression, anxiety, financial hardships, breakups, etc.... You don’t have to have a lot of imagination to see where many of these excuses/reasons will morph under the category of “health risk to the mother”....ie: mental health-depression-anxiety. Things like that will be easy to “document”.
And...licensed midwives can also perform abortions now too under this NY Law.
I had also heard that mental or emotional stress can be a cause for late term abortion.
All nuts and dangerous.
I also heard this morning that a straight to DVD movie has been made called "Gosnell". It is available for pre-order on Amazon for release/shipping on February 5. Pre-order sales are very high.
The interview also stated that under this NY Law, Gosnell could not have been prosecuted for what he did since NY removed all criminality for abortions.
Edited by Gator Bug 2019-01-25 10:41 AM
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 Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Frodo - 2019-01-24 6:00 PM
If I remember right, the very liberal Planned Parenthood is into harvesting the organs and tissue of dead infants. The lure of easy money and possibly some of the reasoning behind this new law.
Â
This ^^^^ The liberals are sick people. Evil.
This makes me sick. The inhumanity of it. I have always been about choice. But not that. Never that. Here's what I found out last year when Kavenaugh was in the confirmation process. I wanted to know why the heck the left was so insane about trying to stop him. Personally I don't think they would have behaved any different had the nominee been any conservative man. IF there is a majority conservative SCOTUS they are worried they might overturn Roe v Wade and they think that means there will be no legal abortions. They are trying to get ahead of that. What they don't know (apparently) is that if that happens, it's kicked back to the states to decide. I don't know why they can't read and research just like I did. But they don't. All the insanity is just their first go to.
Get ready for the next circus when they find out RBG isn't coming back to the SCOTUS. They are going to lose their minds again. In fact, the top (rumored) prospect is a devout Catholic woman. So what they just did to those boys from the Catholic church school is them trying to get ahead of Trumps nominee if it happens to be Amy Coney Barrett. Mark my words. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 705
Location: Weatherford, TX | OregonBR - 2019-01-25 11:11 AM Frodo - 2019-01-24 6:00 PM If I remember right, the very liberal Planned Parenthood is into harvesting the organs and tissue of dead infants. The lure of easy money and possibly some of the reasoning behind this new law.
This ^^^^ The liberals are sick people. Evil. This makes me sick. The inhumanity of it. I have always been about choice. But not that. Never that. Here's what I found out last year when Kavenaugh was in the confirmation process. I wanted to know why the heck the left was so insane about trying to stop him. Personally I don't think they would have behaved any different had the nominee been any conservative man. IF there is a majority conservative SCOTUS they are worried they might overturn Roe v Wade and they think that means there will be no legal abortions. They are trying to get ahead of that. What they don't know (apparently ) is that if that happens, it's kicked back to the states to decide. I don't know why they can't read and research just like I did. But they don't. All the insanity is just their first go to. Get ready for the next circus when they find out RBG isn't coming back to the SCOTUS. They are going to lose their minds again. In fact, the top (rumored ) prospect is a devout Catholic woman. So what they just did to those boys from the Catholic church school is them trying to get ahead of Trumps nominee if it happens to be Amy Coney Barrett. Mark my words.
In regards to RBG and SCOTUS...they will definitely lose their collective minds and it will be a enormous circus. They will try to stop it due to the 2020 Presidential election. I realize that it would be further out than the last couple of times it has been disputed....that won't matter.
The Dems have been on both sides of that argument and will definitely oppose/delay/resist Trump having a third SCOTUS pick. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Amy Barrett is the liberal’s biggest nightmare. Bright, beautiful, intelligent, unashamedly devout Christian, and a woman. They will go to great lengths to destroy her by any means possible. My guess is they will get the pope to admit she molested him. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 705
Location: Weatherford, TX | Bear - 2019-01-25 12:22 PM Amy Barrett is the liberal’s biggest nightmare. Bright, beautiful, intelligent, unashamedly devout Christian, and a woman. They will go to great lengths to destroy her by any means possible. My guess is they will get the pope to admit she molested him.
LOL. The Kavanaugh Hearings will be looked back at as the 'warm-up' or a 'cake walk' compared to what the Barrett Hearings will be and what they will do her.
At least we did pick up a couple Republicans in the Senate and maintained control of the Judiciary Committee. Isn't Lindsey Graham the Chairman now?
It will be brutal.
Edited by Gator Bug 2019-01-25 12:51 PM
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Posting this for Chandlers Mom...
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | It will be brutal and the GOP has the majority in the Senate. However, you still have to contend with the RINO's like that traitor Romney. I'm starting to REALLY dislike him. | |
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