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Gettin Jiggy Wit It
Posts: 2734
   
| JLazyT_perf_horses - 2019-03-21 4:57 PM
Even when they were younger they still weren't clocking what todays horses are consistently. At one point if you were in the 13s at all you were pretty much guaranteed a check. And some of those years the ground was pretty good as well. Louie wasn't clocking low 13s when he was younger, a high 13 is a sweet run for him. Stingray was in the low 13's by .01 seconds and around the barrels with not much room to spare. And some of these newer horses are clocking low 13s with some all over the place runs. I do think horses have gotten faster these days, I think the horses 10 years ago are faster than the ones 20 years ago. We've bred them with more and more run, they're bound to get faster. You go to local jackpots and there's a lot of younger horses blowing the doors off of arena records, a lot more often than they used to.
The nfr pattern isn't a consist size from year to year. |
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 Saint Stacey
| Whiteboy - 2019-03-21 3:56 PM
SKM - 2019-03-21 4:06 PM
Stingray and Louie have how many miles on them? They have both been hauled hard and long. Guess what? Horses age and slow down. The great horses of yesterday could still clock with the greats of today.
Some people might need to brush up on their pedigree knowledge and what horses are broodmare sires. I’d be very surprised if she couldn’t produce. Especially given her conformation, ability and pedigree. The weakest link in her pedigree is Moon Lark...if you can call that weak.
I would say Lazbuddie is the weakest, but I get what you are saying. Also look at the common denominator in DM Sissy Hayday and WD Toole Ta Fame, Troy Crumrine's horse.
Lasbuddie was out of a great producing mare that was a pretty good racehorse herself. Moon Lark was one of those few horses that shouldn’t have been as successful as he was. His dam was nothing and Lanolark never produced much of anything. |
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Saint Stacey
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JLazyT_perf_horses - 2019-03-21 3:57 PM
Even when they were younger they still weren't clocking what todays horses are consistently. At one point if you were in the 13s at all you were pretty much guaranteed a check. And some of those years the ground was pretty good as well. Louie wasn't clocking low 13s when he was younger, a high 13 is a sweet run for him. Stingray was in the low 13's by .01 seconds and around the barrels with not much room to spare. And some of these newer horses are clocking low 13s with some all over the place runs. I do think horses have gotten faster these days, I think the horses 10 years ago are faster than the ones 20 years ago. We've bred them with more and more run, they're bound to get faster. You go to local jackpots and there's a lot of younger horses blowing the doors off of arena records, a lot more often than they used to.
1) The pattern at the NFR isn’t the same as it use to be. 2) The ground has vastly improved over the past few years. 3) You are comparing apples to oranges. Ground implements have improved. Vet practices have improved. Horse trailers have improved with how smooth they now ride thanks to things like WERM flooring and air ride hitches. Horses like Bozo and Scamper never had PEMF, aquatreads, PHT, BOT, etc. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2128
| Who do you guys think would be the best sire for an embryo out of Sister to produce a stud prospect? If she were mine, I would be flushing her like a truck stop toilet to secure her genetics. |
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Expert
Posts: 2128
| Sister goes back to the TB Masterhand. Anyone know a great deal about him? He's on the papers of a two year old we have. |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| SKM - 2019-03-21 6:02 PM
JLazyT_perf_horses - 2019-03-21 3:57 PM
Even when they were younger they still weren't clocking what todays horses are consistently. At one point if you were in the 13s at all you were pretty much guaranteed a check. And some of those years the ground was pretty good as well. Louie wasn't clocking low 13s when he was younger, a high 13 is a sweet run for him. Stingray was in the low 13's by .01 seconds and around the barrels with not much room to spare. And some of these newer horses are clocking low 13s with some all over the place runs. I do think horses have gotten faster these days, I think the horses 10 years ago are faster than the ones 20 years ago. We've bred them with more and more run, they're bound to get faster. You go to local jackpots and there's a lot of younger horses blowing the doors off of arena records, a lot more often than they used to.
1) The pattern at the NFR isn’t the same as it use to be.
2) The ground has vastly improved over the past few years.
3) You are comparing apples to oranges. Ground implements have improved. Vet practices have improved. Horse trailers have improved with how smooth they now ride thanks to things like WERM flooring and air ride hitches. Horses like Bozo and Scamper never had PEMF, aquatreads, PHT, BOT, etc.
I also think I remember their times differnetly. I do agree that way in the day sub 14s was more uncommon but I remmeber seeing consistent 7s from Louie and Stingray. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awbYAJmW8sA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vKNNWNl268 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qmb7tSNqr3A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9WlmtWCGRk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6rXtyO0lQY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_YJG1NlgJM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv5EpOfVJp0 Just from a quick youtube search... |
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Veteran
Posts: 227
Location: Heart of Texas | my vote would be First Moonflash. I have one of his offspring and I think it would make a nice cross. Especially from how Haliey has described Sister's personality and demeanor. But they're smart women, i'm sure her and her mom have it all ironed out and we're all gunna be amazed in the future. |
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Veteran
Posts: 136
| JLazyT_perf_horses - 2019-03-21 5:57 PM
Even when they were younger they still weren't clocking what todays horses are consistently. At one point if you were in the 13s at all you were pretty much guaranteed a check. And some of those years the ground was pretty good as well. Louie wasn't clocking low 13s when he was younger, a high 13 is a sweet run for him. Stingray was in the low 13's by .01 seconds and around the barrels with not much room to spare. And some of these newer horses are clocking low 13s with some all over the place runs. I do think horses have gotten faster these days, I think the horses 10 years ago are faster than the ones 20 years ago. We've bred them with more and more run, they're bound to get faster. You go to local jackpots and there's a lot of younger horses blowing the doors off of arena records, a lot more often than they used to.
Does anyone agree that our training techniques have also been a HUGE factor in how fast our horses are running compared to years ago? Yes, breeding is a factor but you can have the best bred horse and not have them trained right and make them a dud. There are tons of factors on a pattern time. Be open minded!!! |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 338
Location: NE TX | I'mlost - 2019-03-21 7:04 AM
As long as we’re dreaming! If you could afford an embryo who would you breed Sister to? So many possibilities! Hmm Fist Moonflash? Firewaterontherocks? It’ll be fun to follow her babies when they hit the ground!
As long as we are dreaming, why not one of each ?? |
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 Brains Behind the Operation...
Posts: 4543
Location: Arizona | JLazyT_perf_horses - 2019-03-22 3:57 PM Even when they were younger they still weren't clocking what todays horses are consistently. At one point if you were in the 13s at all you were pretty much guaranteed a check. And some of those years the ground was pretty good as well. Louie wasn't clocking low 13s when he was younger, a high 13 is a sweet run for him. Stingray was in the low 13's by .01 seconds and around the barrels with not much room to spare. And some of these newer horses are clocking low 13s with some all over the place runs. I do think horses have gotten faster these days, I think the horses 10 years ago are faster than the ones 20 years ago. We've bred them with more and more run, they're bound to get faster. You go to local jackpots and there's a lot of younger horses blowing the doors off of arena records, a lot more often than they used to. I've had too much going on the last few years to do my crazy, obsessive NFR number crunching, but as of 2014 Stingray's best time at the Thomas & Mack was 13.49, and Louie's was 13.62. Those times are still plenty fast enough to win and place at the NFR. Look at the 2018 results. Those numbers would have been in the money every round. Stingray made her first NFR appearance in what? 2008? And I think Louie made his in 2009? That's a whole lot of road and arena miles under their feet. They're older now, and they all slow down eventually. Just because they weren't clocking on top of their younger competition during their last couple NFR appearances doesn't mean they wouldn't have still been kicking butt in their prime - because the numbers prove otherwise. For anyone whose into that sort of thing, here's a link to some of my aforementioned crazy, obsessive stats. Geez, I can't believe we're pushing another five years since I wrote that! Guess I need to work on another review before December, lol. 2010-2014 NFR Barrel Racing Review Part 2 Edited to add: This graphic from Part 1 of the review series I linked above shows the average winning times from Louie and Stingray's heyday. 
Edited by Whinny19 2019-03-24 4:43 PM
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | Whinny19 - 2019-03-24 4:24 PM
JLazyT_perf_horses - 2019-03-22 3:57 PM
Even when they were younger they still weren't clocking what todays horses are consistently. At one point if you were in the 13s at all you were pretty much guaranteed a check. And some of those years the ground was pretty good as well. Louie wasn't clocking low 13s when he was younger, a high 13 is a sweet run for him. Stingray was in the low 13's by .01 seconds and around the barrels with not much room to spare. And some of these newer horses are clocking low 13s with some all over the place runs. I do think horses have gotten faster these days, I think the horses 10 years ago are faster than the ones 20 years ago. We've bred them with more and more run, they're bound to get faster. You go to local jackpots and there's a lot of younger horses blowing the doors off of arena records, a lot more often than they used to.
I've had too much going on the last few years to do my crazy, obsessive NFR number crunching, but as of 2014 Stingray's best time at the Thomas & Mack was 13.49, and Louie's was 13.62. Those times are still plenty fast enough to win and place at the NFR. Look at the 2018 results. Those numbers would have been in the money every round.
Stingray made her first NFR appearance in what? 2008? And I think Louie made his in 2009? That's a whole lot of road and arena miles under their feet. They're older now, and they all slow down eventually. Just because they weren't clocking on top of their younger competition during their last couple NFR appearances doesn't mean they wouldn't have still been kicking butt in their prime - because the numbers prove otherwise.
For anyone whose into that sort of thing, here's a link to some of my aforementioned crazy, obsessive stats. Geez, I can't believe we're pushing another five years since I wrote that! Guess I need to work on another review before December, lol.
2010-2014 NFR Barrel Racing Review Part 2
Edited to add: This graphic from Part 1 of the review series I linked above shows the average winning times from Louie and Stingray's heyday.
Thanks for this! (You have work to do before December ) |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 460
| scwebster - 2019-03-22 9:09 AM
Sister goes back to the TB Masterhand. Anyone know a great deal about him? He's on the papers of a two year old we have.
Master Hand was a decent racehorse - nothing outstanding. He is sired by Bold Ruler, who is a very famous TB. He had a great racing career, graded stakes wins, placed in the ky derby, etc. But he's mainly known as a sire, he was the sire of secretariat, grand sire of seattle slew, and had plenty of crops of other graded stakes winners. Also in the lines of today's greats - california chrome, justify and american pharoah...to name a few. Master Hands's bottom side also has a triple crown winner (omaha) 3 gens back, and a derby placer 2 back. Master Hand was born in 66 though...so all of these are pretty old school lines =p |
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 Expert
Posts: 4625
Location: Desert Land | scwebster - 2019-03-22 8:09 AM
Sister goes back to the TB Masterhand. Anyone know a great deal about him? He's on the papers of a two year old we have.
Master Hand daughters crossed very well bred to Dash For Perks. Off the top of my head that's really the only stand out cross I can think of on Master Hand. |
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  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| TheOldGrayMare - 2019-03-28 1:12 PM
scwebster - 2019-03-22 8:09 AM
Sister goes back to the TB Masterhand. Anyone know a great deal about him? He's on the papers of a two year old we have.
Master Hand daughters crossed very well bred to Dash For Perks. Off the top of my head that's really the only stand out cross I can think of on Master Hand.
Some of the stand out horses that I can think of are, MR MASTER BUG and pocket coin (the materal grandsire of Sissys Little Coin). |
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Expert
Posts: 2128
| TheOldGrayMare - 2019-03-28 1:12 PM scwebster - 2019-03-22 8:09 AM Sister goes back to the TB Masterhand. Anyone know a great deal about him? He's on the papers of a two year old we have. Master Hand daughters crossed very well bred to Dash For Perks. Off the top of my head that's really the only stand out cross I can think of on Master Hand. Very cool!! This colt is out of a DFP Daughter. Pedigree: https://www.allbreedpedigree.com/index.php?query_type=horse&h=FAST+FRIJOLES&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=
Edited by scwebster 2019-03-29 12:44 PM
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Expert
Posts: 2128
| Katielovestbs - 2019-03-28 11:17 AM
scwebster - 2019-03-22 9:09 AM
Sister goes back to the TB Masterhand. Anyone know a great deal about him? He's on the papers of a two year old we have.
Master Hand was a decent racehorse - nothing outstanding. He is sired by Bold Ruler, who is a very famous TB. He had a great racing career, graded stakes wins, placed in the ky derby, etc. But he's mainly known as a sire, he was the sire of secretariat, grand sire of seattle slew, and had plenty of crops of other graded stakes winners. Also in the lines of today's greats - california chrome, justify and american pharoah...to name a few.
Master Hands's bottom side also has a triple crown winner (omaha) 3 gens back, and a derby placer 2 back.
Master Hand was born in 66 though...so all of these are pretty old school lines =p
I am familliar with Bold Ruler but did not realize he sired MasterHand. Very cool, thanks for all of the interesting facts :) |
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Expert
Posts: 4625
Location: Desert Land | Whiteboy - 2019-03-28 11:48 AM
TheOldGrayMare - 2019-03-28 1:12 PM
scwebster - 2019-03-22 8:09 AM
Sister goes back to the TB Masterhand. Anyone know a great deal about him? He's on the papers of a two year old we have.
Master Hand daughters crossed very well bred to Dash For Perks. Off the top of my head that's really the only stand out cross I can think of on Master Hand.
Some of the stand out horses that I can think of are, MR MASTER BUG and pocket coin (the materal grandsire of Sissys Little Coin).
Mr Master Bug was also a great cross on Dash For Perks daughters. You'd think I'd remember Pocket Coin..I have the ful sister to Sissys Little Coin  |
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | Totally off thread, but sending Hailey and Jess best wishes on their engagement |
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 Regular
Posts: 81
Location: Kentucky | You have to remember, the ground was was finally replaced at the NFR. Of course times are getting faster! I have no doubt Stingray and Louie could be right there with them if they were younger. |
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"Heck's Coming With Me"
Posts: 10794
Location: Kansas | Chandler's Mom - 2019-03-29 8:54 PM
Totally off thread, but sending Hailey and Jess best wishes on their engagement
World Champion Bull Rider (cute as a button) World Champion Barrel Racer (also cute as a button). I'm jealous but just to be their age again would suffice. I believe she's a little older than he is. You go girl. |
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