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bccanchaser16
Reg. Jan 2007
Posted 2019-05-06 9:50 AM
Subject: RE: The Derby



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MOGirl07 - 2019-05-06 7:40 AM


One of my FB friends shared an article explaining Level 1 and Level 2 rules in horse racing and how outside of the US and Canada, Maximum Security would not have been DQ'd. US and Canada follow Level 2 rules, which state that if a horse interferes with any other horse they're DQ'd. Level 1 rules state that the horse is only DQ'd if interferes with a horse winning, I think? Something along those lines. So in other words, since Maximum Security did not interfere with Country House, he would not have been DQ'd if the US followed  Level 1 rules. But I can't find it to share the link with you all. 


Maybe someone else here has read the article and will share. 


Like others, it really bothers me that it wasn't the owner/jockey of the horse that Max interfered with that lodged the complaint, but rather those who simply benefited from him being DQ'd but weren't affected by his interference at all. 


Uhhhh.... Jon Court on 18 also lodged an inquiry. If anyone's getting mad about who lodged the inquiry- it should be the stewards who should have lodged the initial inquiry as soon as they crossed the line. Bottom line- it doesn't matter which jockey lodged the inquiry. They all saw what happened and how bad it was out there.

 The news media has just done a horrible job of reporting that Court did as well. Mark Casse (trainer of WoW) said he didn't tell Tyler Gaffalione to lodge an objection because they finished 7th and well "what's the point." Casse only saw it live, he didn't actually see how bad it was. Should Tyler have objected? Well, yeah. But hindsight's 20/20.

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MOGirl07
Reg. Feb 2012
Posted 2019-05-06 10:15 AM
Subject: RE: The Derby



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bccanchaser16 - 2019-05-06 9:50 AM


MOGirl07 - 2019-05-06 7:40 AM


One of my FB friends shared an article explaining Level 1 and Level 2 rules in horse racing and how outside of the US and Canada, Maximum Security would not have been DQ'd. US and Canada follow Level 2 rules, which state that if a horse interferes with any other horse they're DQ'd. Level 1 rules state that the horse is only DQ'd if interferes with a horse winning, I think? Something along those lines. So in other words, since Maximum Security did not interfere with Country House, he would not have been DQ'd if the US followed  Level 1 rules. But I can't find it to share the link with you all. 


Maybe someone else here has read the article and will share. 


Like others, it really bothers me that it wasn't the owner/jockey of the horse that Max interfered with that lodged the complaint, but rather those who simply benefited from him being DQ'd but weren't affected by his interference at all. 



Uhhhh.... Jon Court on 18 also lodged an inquiry. If anyone's getting mad about who lodged the inquiry- it should be the stewards who should have lodged the initial inquiry as soon as they crossed the line. Bottom line- it doesn't matter which jockey lodged the inquiry. They all saw what happened and how bad it was out there.


 The news media has just done a horrible job of reporting that Court did as well. Mark Casse (trainer of WoW) said he didn't tell Tyler Gaffalione to lodge an objection because they finished 7th and well "what's the point." Casse only saw it live, he didn't actually see how bad it was. Should Tyler have objected? Well, yeah. But hindsight's 20/20.


You're right the news media has done a terrible job of reporting that Jon Court lodged an inquiry too. I had not read a single article stating this (granted I have not read every single one that I have seen shared but still). So thanks for pointing that out. 

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Southtxponygirl
Reg. Nov 2006
Posted 2019-05-06 10:30 AM
Subject: RE: The Derby



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Gary West owner of Maximum Security speaks out on Disqualification on the Today show this morning and said he would file an appeal with the State Racing Commission.. 



Edited by Southtxponygirl 2019-05-06 10:34 AM
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TrailGirl
Reg. Jan 2014
Posted 2019-05-06 10:51 AM
Subject: RE: The Derby



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I can tell you...I wouldn't want to "win" the Derby the way Country House did...by default. He wasn't affected by the kerfluffle...and still couldnt pass the faster horse. No matter wether it was a good call or a bad one...that asterisk next to the win will always take some of the joy and pride out of it. 

 

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Gator Bug
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2019-05-06 12:09 PM
Subject: RE: The Derby


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bccanchaser16 - 2019-05-06 9:50 AM

MOGirl07 - 2019-05-06 7:40 AM

One of my FB friends shared an article explaining Level 1 and Level 2 rules in horse racing and how outside of the US and Canada, Maximum Security would not have been DQ'd. US and Canada follow Level 2 rules, which state that if a horse interferes with any other horse they're DQ'd. Level 1 rules state that the horse is only DQ'd if interferes with a horse winning, I think? Something along those lines. So in other words, since Maximum Security did not interfere with Country House, he would not have been DQ'd if the US followed  Level 1 rules. But I can't find it to share the link with you all. 

Maybe someone else here has read the article and will share. 

Like others, it really bothers me that it wasn't the owner/jockey of the horse that Max interfered with that lodged the complaint, but rather those who simply benefited from him being DQ'd but weren't affected by his interference at all. 

Uhhhh.... Jon Court on 18 also lodged an inquiry. If anyone's getting mad about who lodged the inquiry- it should be the stewards who should have lodged the initial inquiry as soon as they crossed the line. Bottom line- it doesn't matter which jockey lodged the inquiry. They all saw what happened and how bad it was out there.

 The news media has just done a horrible job of reporting that Court did as well. Mark Casse (trainer of WoW) said he didn't tell Tyler Gaffalione to lodge an objection because they finished 7th and well "what's the point." Casse only saw it live, he didn't actually see how bad it was. Should Tyler have objected? Well, yeah. But hindsight's 20/20.

Yes.. what you said.... LOL

I thought WOW should have lodged the objection and didn’t. But then looking at the tape, Max did foul the other horses too. 

Now, I thought I was pretty knowledgeable about horse racing. However... I thought that if the person/horse that was fouled/filed the complaint was deprived of the win or even placing, then the stewards ONLY looked at that particular foul. Then, my hubby that does know more, said no. He said if ANY objection is filed then the WHOLE race is looked at. So, I guess, it really didn’t matter that WOW didn’t file. Max fouled him and then the others. I didn’t realize all that (my hubby knew) with the TB racing. All this time, I had no clue.

I hope I explained that all right and sensible. I didn’t know what my hubby knew.... imagine that! LOL



Edited by Gator Bug 2019-05-06 12:12 PM
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okhorselover
Reg. Feb 2016
Posted 2019-05-06 12:43 PM
Subject: RE: The Derby



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I have read some very good comments & I thank you all for them. I respect everyone's thoughts. And this to shall pass. Just a sad situation for all involved. 

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SKM
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2019-05-06 12:50 PM
Subject: RE: The Derby



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The money won by winning the Derby by default spends just as good as money won without a default. 

Maximum Security started a domino effect that took 3-4 horses out of placing. The horse that won survived the fallout and capitalized on it.

The field was catching him...hence why so many were effected. 

Im just glad America doesn’t follow those ridiculous Level 2 rules. Take about allowing the leasing jockey to ride dirty with no consequences. 

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Mighty Broke
Reg. Jul 2004
Posted 2019-05-06 12:53 PM
Subject: RE: The Derby



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SKM - 2019-05-06 1:50 PM


The money won by winning the Derby by default spends just as good as money won without a default. 


Maximum Security started a domino effect that took 3-4 horses out of placing. The horse that won survived the fallout and capitalized on it.


The field was catching him...hence why so many were effected. 


Im just glad America doesn’t follow those ridiculous Level 2 rules. Take about allowing the leasing jockey to ride dirty with no consequences. 


Rules were put in place for a reason---I imagine back in the day there was some shady "stuff" that went on.

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MOGirl07
Reg. Feb 2012
Posted 2019-05-06 1:06 PM
Subject: RE: The Derby



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SKM - 2019-05-06 12:50 PM


The money won by winning the Derby by default spends just as good as money won without a default. 


Maximum Security started a domino effect that took 3-4 horses out of placing. The horse that won survived the fallout and capitalized on it.


The field was catching him...hence why so many were effected. 


Im just glad America doesn’t follow those ridiculous Level 2 rules. Take about allowing the leasing jockey to ride dirty with no consequences. 


I thought America and Canada did follow Level 2 (stricter), and the rest of the world was Level 1?

Or do I have that backwards? 

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SKM
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2019-05-06 2:31 PM
Subject: RE: The Derby



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MOGirl07 - 2019-05-06 12:06 PM


SKM - 2019-05-06 12:50 PM


The money won by winning the Derby by default spends just as good as money won without a default. 


Maximum Security started a domino effect that took 3-4 horses out of placing. The horse that won survived the fallout and capitalized on it.


The field was catching him...hence why so many were effected. 


Im just glad America doesn’t follow those ridiculous Level 2 rules. Take about allowing the leasing jockey to ride dirty with no consequences. 



I thought America and Canada did follow Level 2 (stricter), and the rest of the world was Level 1?


Or do I have that backwards? 


Maybe I was confused reading the replies. I’m just glad that our rules don’t allow the lead horses rider to have a free for all. While the lead horse has the right to all lanes, the horse must first be clear of the rest of the field.

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streakysox
Reg. Jul 2008
Posted 2019-05-06 2:55 PM
Subject: RE: The Derby



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SKM - 2019-05-06 2:31 PM


MOGirl07 - 2019-05-06 12:06 PM


SKM - 2019-05-06 12:50 PM


The money won by winning the Derby by default spends just as good as money won without a default. 


Maximum Security started a domino effect that took 3-4 horses out of placing. The horse that won survived the fallout and capitalized on it.


The field was catching him...hence why so many were effected. 


Im just glad America doesn’t follow those ridiculous Level 2 rules. Take about allowing the leasing jockey to ride dirty with no consequences. 



I thought America and Canada did follow Level 2 (stricter), and the rest of the world was Level 1?


Or do I have that backwards? 



Maybe I was confused reading the replies. I’m just glad that our rules don’t allow the lead horses rider to have a free for all. While the lead horse has the right to all lanes, the horse must first be clear of the rest of the field.


Can you explain to me where the lanes are on a track?

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OregonBR
Reg. Dec 2003
Posted 2019-05-06 3:38 PM
Subject: RE: The Derby


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Streakysox a horse can be in any lane as long as they don't impede another horse in their lane.  This situation was pretty clear that MS was in about the 2 path and came out to about the 4 path.  Then his rider steared him back and actually almost impeded the horse on the rail.  So he was all over the place.  The stewards did the right thing.

The only objection I have to DQ'ing horses in a race is when one persons horse is allowed to go all over the place and another persons horse is taken down for the same thing. Happened to me when I had racehorses. I don't have racehorses anymore.



Edited by OregonBR 2019-05-06 3:40 PM
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Southtxponygirl
Reg. Nov 2006
Posted 2019-05-06 4:40 PM
Subject: RE: The Derby



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A lane is the path of a running horse, as long as the path of the other running horse is clear you can move your horse over, if not a clear path and the your horse swerves or ridden into a path of another running horse and its does interfere with another horse as in bumping or having to pull up and risking another horse to run up on you or worst that is a cause for the interfereing horse to be disqualified.

The lanes are not marked, a lane is the path of running horses. Just saying for the ones that are wanting to know where a lane is. I meant to be Quoting StreakySox



Edited by Southtxponygirl 2019-05-06 5:06 PM
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aqhabarrelchic1
Reg. Apr 2005
Posted 2019-05-06 6:43 PM
Subject: RE: The Derby


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OhMax - 2019-05-07 4:55 AM


I feel that if the connections of Will of War had lodged the inquiry - we wouldn’t be having nearly as much conversation about it.  The interference was clear.  The fact that the connections of Country House were the ones to lodge the inquiry is what gets my goat a little.


I think the call was the right one.  The stewards were in a very difficult spot once the inquiry was lodged.  


Had they not DQ’d Maximum Security would we be here talking about how big names trainers and prodigy undefeated colts get to bend the rules and screw the little guy?


Jon. Court lodged a complaint as well and that would one stood

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aqhabarrelchic1
Reg. Apr 2005
Posted 2019-05-06 6:46 PM
Subject: RE: The Derby


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MOGirl07 - 2019-05-07 7:40 AM


One of my FB friends shared an article explaining Level 1 and Level 2 rules in horse racing and how outside of the US and Canada, Maximum Security would not have been DQ'd. US and Canada follow Level 2 rules, which state that if a horse interferes with any other horse they're DQ'd. Level 1 rules state that the horse is only DQ'd if interferes with a horse winning, I think? Something along those lines. So in other words, since Maximum Security did not interfere with Country House, he would not have been DQ'd if the US followed  Level 1 rules. But I can't find it to share the link with you all. 


Maybe someone else here has read the article and will share. 


Like others, it really bothers me that it wasn't the owner/jockey of the horse that Max interfered with that lodged the complaint, but rather those who simply benefited from him being DQ'd but weren't affected by his interference at all. 


Long range toddy was definitely involved and his jock filed

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rawhide
Reg. Jan 2008
Posted 2019-05-06 9:33 PM
Subject: RE: The Derby


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Can someone tell why Max was placed 17th, and  not DQ'd entirely?



Edited by rawhide 2019-05-06 9:34 PM
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CHASIN CANS
Reg. Nov 2018
Posted 2019-05-06 10:58 PM
Subject: RE: The Derby


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KENTUCKY DERBY ARTICLES .. 

ROBBED AT DERBY
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/opinion-maximum-security-was-robbed-at-kentucky-derby-yet-another-black-eye-in-horse-racing/ar-AAAVl5d?ocid=spartanntp&fbclid=IwAR1MGLGRfQuN4AKqBd8HFTUU7Fc0KbFSJaIpt_UCnogvIhD_yKpOV6NH3QA

SHOCKED AT DERBY
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/disqualified-inside-the-historic-decision-that-shocked-the-kentucky-derby/ar-AAAUyCe?ocid=spartandhp   

STEWARDS PRESS RELEASE

BARBARA BORDEN: Hello, good evening. The riders of the 18 (Long Range Toddy) and 20 (Country House) horses in the Kentucky Derby lodged objections against the 7 (Maximum Security) horse, the winner, due to interference turning for home, leaving the 1/4 pole.
We had a lengthy review of the race. We interviewed affected riders. We determined that the 7 horse drifted out and impacted the progress of Number 1 (War of Will), in turn, interfering with the 18 and 21 (Bodexpress). Those horses were all affected, we thought, by the interference.
Therefore, we unanimously determined to disqualify Number 7 and place him behind the 18, the 18 being the lowest?placed horse that he bothered, which is our typical procedure.

WEST OWNER OF MAXIMUM SECURITY

He said Saturday night it was his understanding the first opportunity to do that would be Thursday, May 9, the next scheduled race day at Churchill Downs. On Sunday, he voiced his displeasure with the situation.
"The stewards have refused to allow anyone to see their video and talk to them, so I don't know what I am going to do," West said. "I can't believe their total lack of transparency on a matter of this magnitude."
Kentucky chief state steward Barbara Borden said Sunday evening the stewards would be willing to meet with West, or other license holders involved, when they sit down Thursday with jockeys involved in the incident. She also said the meeting could happen before Thursday.  

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/233521/gary-west-questions-transparency-of-kentucky-stewards  

KENTUCKY HORSE RACING COMMISSION 

REFUSED MAXIMUM SECURITY AN APPEAL AND REFUSED TO ORDER A STAY ON DISBURSEMENT OF PURSES ETC. ETC. 

Maximum Security owner says he'll sue to overturn Kentucky Derby DQ after appeal denied

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/maximum-security-owner-says-hell-sue-to-overturn-kentucky-derby-dq-after-appeal-denied  

ENTERING PREAKNESS IS UNDECIDED AT THIS TIME .. 

POLITICS .. >>>>

CHURCHILL DOWNS BENEFITS WITH 2.2 MILLION DOLLARS in their overlay account since the 65-1 COUNTRY HOUSE with very few bettors .. vs..  MAXIMUM SECURITY  4-1 odds with lots and lots of bettors that did not get to cash in their tickets ... 

Is this the reason Churchill Downs is stonewalling the owner of 

Maximum Security??

MAXIMUM SECURITY was born in Kentucky but did his training and won all 4 of his races at Gulfstream Park in Florida and was eligible for the Kentucky Derby $638,000 in winnings .... $25,000 nomination plus $25,000 at the gate .. (each owner pays this)  Owned by West, Gary and Mary 

COUNTRY HOUSE was born in Kentucky ran 6 times on various tracks only came in first once in a Maiden Special Weight race at Gulfstream Park, Florida... 6 3-4-2-1-2-9 won 3rd at the Arkansas Derby and was eligible for the Kentucky Derby   $320,175 ....Owned by   Shields, Jr., Mrs. J. V., McFadden, Jr., E. J. M. and LNJ Foxwoods  

NOW... watch the review of the actual race instead of that one dramatized photo and watch COUNTRY HOUSE come roaring in on the outside and pinched the two horses running in the clear over behind and then running up on MAXIMUM SECURITY WITH NO CONTACT ...... 

IF COUNTRY HOUSE had maintained HIS LANE and not interferred with the other 2 horses ... MAXIMUM SECURITY would NOT have been involved ....

COUNTRY HOUSE would have been set back to 18th position for his squeeze play ...

It is strange that ALL EYES WERE ON MAXIMUM SECURITY and NOT ONE PEEP OUT OF ANYONE ON THE MOVE THAT COUNTRY HOUSE MADE !!

PLAY IT AGAIN SAM ... UNTIL YOU GET THE HORSES IDENTIFIED ... yellow hat roaring in from the outside is COUNTRY HOUSE 20 and  MAXIMUM SECURITY  7 in pink leading ... scroll down ... click on mishap .. play full screen ..

https://www.al.com/sports/2019/05/kentucky-derby-2019-live-updates-on-the-145th-run-for-the-roses.html 

HAVE FUN !!

 

 

 

 

 

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Mecon
Reg. May 2017
Posted 2019-05-06 11:02 PM
Subject: RE: The Derby




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Absolutely correct. The stewards did the right thing, albeit a difficult decision.  To attempt to make this about politics is simply absurd.  Obviously, the Moron In Chief knows just about as much about horse racing as he does about governance.  Must of had money down on Macimum Security...

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Frodo
Reg. Jul 2004
Posted 2019-05-07 6:52 AM
Subject: RE: The Derby


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Mecon - 2019-05-06 11:02 PM


Absolutely correct. The stewards did the right thing, albeit a difficult decision.  To attempt to make this about politics is simply absurd.  Obviously, the Moron In Chief knows just about as much about horse racing as he does about governance.  Must of had money down on Macimum Security...


President Trump has just as much right to his opinion as you do Mecon.   Being a liberal you conveniently forget such things.

 

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streakysox
Reg. Jul 2008
Posted 2019-05-07 8:38 AM
Subject: RE: The Derby



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Mecon - 2019-05-06 11:02 PM

Absolutely correct. The stewards did the right thing, albeit a difficult decision.  To attempt to make this about politics is simply absurd.  Obviously, the Moron In Chief knows just about as much about horse racing as he does about governance.  Must of had money down on Macimum Security...

Bingo. You are so right (everyone bet on Maximum Security) and the track did not have to pay that out since he was DQ'ed.  No one bet on Country House hence the large odds.



Edited by streakysox 2019-05-07 8:40 AM
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