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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
  
Location: Bastrop, Texas | SKM - 2014-03-08 3:57 PM I agree with NJJ. That was a very asinine statement.
If I remember right.... "The Million Dollar Cowboy" didn't make it out of Waco to qualify for the American.
Remind me why you think woman fear the competition???
If not that, then why wouldn't they want men to compete with them? Oh I forgot.....tradition. If men were allowed to compete in barrel racing at PRCA rodeos, then is it not true that this would provide more competition? Would it seem likely that a few would begin to qualify for the NFR? That was what I was thinking. | |
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  Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
 
Location: Displaced Iowegian | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 4:01 PM NJJ - 2014-03-08 3:15 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 3:03 PM It tells me that deep down inside, many women fear men's participation lessons their chances of success. They don't want more competition, even though men are not at any advantage.
. You kind of had me moving toward your side until this asinine statement..........
I'm not running for public office, Norma, so I'm not looking for your vote.
I doubt you need my input to sway your opinion, one way or another. 
Dont' you feel like this.......
Edited by NJJ 2014-03-08 4:21 PM
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Thanks for the spelling lesson, Norma. I always seem to misspell certain words, and I also frequently put the "e" before the "i", if I'm not careful.
I should re-phrase my remark.....it's not that they fear men, per se', rather, they recognize that more men competing will have a certain impact that will make things harder. For example, if my wife or daughter wanted to make a run for the NFR, allowing men to compete probably will have a negative impact on her chances. No mystery here. In other words, if people like Lance Graves, Brett Monroe, and Talmadge Green decided to make a run for the NFR, my guess is there's a good chance that a few of them would make it. If my daughter finished 16th or 17th at the end of the year, and two men made it.....well, there you go. It's pretty hard to deny that allowing men would increase the competition. | |
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 Saint Stacey
| HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 3:30 PM Thanks for the spelling lesson, Norma. I always seem to misspell certain words, and I also frequently put the "e" before the "i", if I'm not careful.
I should re-phrase my remark.....it's not that they fear men, per se', rather, they recognize that more men competing will have a certain impact that will make things harder. For example, if my wife or daughter wanted to make a run for the NFR, allowing men to compete probably will have a negative impact on her chances. No mystery here. In other words, if people like Lance Graves, Brett Monroe, and Talmadge Green decided to make a run for the NFR, my guess is there's a good chance that a few of them would make it. If my daughter finished 16th or 17th at the end of the year, and two men made it.....well, there you go. It's pretty hard to deny that allowing men would increase the competition. Give me some examples of horses any of the above has trained that went on to be able to rodeo after they were futurited. I am genuinely curious how many of these men made horse you hear of after they turn the age of 7 that became successful rodeo horses. Or NFR caliber ones.
I have no doubt these men can make a horse. But an NFR caliber rodeo horse is a lot different than a big 4D jackpot horse.
I know for a fact that one of the men you named goes through literally 100 head to find maybe 3 that can be successful in the futurity pen.
Edited by SKM 2014-03-08 5:27 PM
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Here's a thought. The reason we don't want men in the WPRA (running at the NFR) is because WOMEN worked so hard to get the barrel race in pro rodeo to where it is today that WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE with you men. It's not fear at all. It's wanting to hold on to what we women collectively earned and keep all of it for ourselves. Sound familiar? | |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | To me if the women that run against the men in the 4D's and the bigger races, futurity's and if they were fearing the men dont you think that the women would be having fits about the men that they are running against now? And holy cow the men kick butts all over the place, but no complaints from the women. I hope and pray that the NFR stays just the way it is now. The women worked so darn hard to be where they are now so I hope that it stays this way. 
Edited by Southtxponygirl 2014-03-08 6:03 PM
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10D Crack Champion
| Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-08 5:19 PM Here's a thought. The reason we don't want men in the WPRA (running at the NFR) is because WOMEN worked so hard to get the barrel race in pro rodeo to where it is today that WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE with you men. It's not fear at all. It's wanting to hold on to what we women collectively earned and keep all of it for ourselves. Sound familiar? That is true. I don't see this point in arguing. If at any time 15 women could and would qualify in all other events: bareback, saddle bronc, bull riding, steer wrestling, team roping, and calf roping...and I mean in all events, then this wouldn't be an issue. People can say women can compete in PRCA, but that doesn't mean any would qualify for those events at the NFR. I don't ever see a bunch of women being able to compete in those events at the NFR level. I do however know there are way over 15 men who could if they wanted to haul compete and make it to the NFR in barrel racing. I would hate to see a time when the NFR has NO or maybe just a couple women competing. I don't think men are superior in barrel racing. I am just saying men could qualify if they wanted. I don't see women qualifying in the other events I mentioned no matter how much they wanted it. All the women saying open the WPRA up to men better get their PRCA card & start bull dogging, riding bulls, riding broncs, and roping like the NFR men so this will all be "equal". For me it wouldn't be that the women are afraid of competition from men. It is just the chance after everything there could easily be even less than 15 women at the NFR one year. I am not a big wimp, but I know for darn sure Ote Berry in retirement can bulldog better than I ever would and I am not afraid to admit it. Lol
Edited by sodapop 2014-03-08 8:02 PM
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | SKM - 2014-03-08 5:08 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 3:30 PM Thanks for the spelling lesson, Norma. I always seem to misspell certain words, and I also frequently put the "e" before the "i", if I'm not careful.
I should re-phrase my remark.....it's not that they fear men, per se', rather, they recognize that more men competing will have a certain impact that will make things harder. For example, if my wife or daughter wanted to make a run for the NFR, allowing men to compete probably will have a negative impact on her chances. No mystery here. In other words, if people like Lance Graves, Brett Monroe, and Talmadge Green decided to make a run for the NFR, my guess is there's a good chance that a few of them would make it. If my daughter finished 16th or 17th at the end of the year, and two men made it.....well, there you go. It's pretty hard to deny that allowing men would increase the competition. Give me some examples of horses any of the above has trained that went on to be able to rodeo after they were futurited. I am genuinely curious how many of these men made horse you hear of after they turn the age of 7 that became successful rodeo horses. Or NFR caliber ones.
I have no doubt these men can make a horse. But an NFR caliber rodeo horse is a lot different than a big 4D jackpot horse.
I know for a fact that one of the men you named goes through literally 100 head to find maybe 3 that can be successful in the futurity pen.
Do you know who trained Stingray?
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 More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 7:24 PM SKM - 2014-03-08 5:08 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 3:30 PM Thanks for the spelling lesson, Norma. I always seem to misspell certain words, and I also frequently put the "e" before the "i", if I'm not careful.
I should re-phrase my remark.....it's not that they fear men, per se', rather, they recognize that more men competing will have a certain impact that will make things harder. For example, if my wife or daughter wanted to make a run for the NFR, allowing men to compete probably will have a negative impact on her chances. No mystery here. In other words, if people like Lance Graves, Brett Monroe, and Talmadge Green decided to make a run for the NFR, my guess is there's a good chance that a few of them would make it. If my daughter finished 16th or 17th at the end of the year, and two men made it.....well, there you go. It's pretty hard to deny that allowing men would increase the competition. Give me some examples of horses any of the above has trained that went on to be able to rodeo after they were futurited. I am genuinely curious how many of these men made horse you hear of after they turn the age of 7 that became successful rodeo horses. Or NFR caliber ones.
I have no doubt these men can make a horse. But an NFR caliber rodeo horse is a lot different than a big 4D jackpot horse.
I know for a fact that one of the men you named goes through literally 100 head to find maybe 3 that can be successful in the futurity pen.
Not anyone you mentioned. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-08 5:19 PM Here's a thought. The reason we don't want men in the WPRA (running at the NFR) is because WOMEN worked so hard to get the barrel race in pro rodeo to where it is today that WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE with you men. It's not fear at all. It's wanting to hold on to what we women collectively earned and keep all of it for ourselves. Sound familiar?
I'd say that is pretty accurate.
So, let me ask......would it be fair if men were allowed to hang onto everything they developed "collectively"? Should it work both ways, or just selectively?
Men participating in pro rodeo, even if they comprise only 10% of the entrants, would increase the level of competition. I don't see how that can be refuted. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | CYA Ranch - 2014-03-08 7:28 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 7:24 PM SKM - 2014-03-08 5:08 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 3:30 PM Thanks for the spelling lesson, Norma. I always seem to misspell certain words, and I also frequently put the "e" before the "i", if I'm not careful.
I should re-phrase my remark.....it's not that they fear men, per se', rather, they recognize that more men competing will have a certain impact that will make things harder. For example, if my wife or daughter wanted to make a run for the NFR, allowing men to compete probably will have a negative impact on her chances. No mystery here. In other words, if people like Lance Graves, Brett Monroe, and Talmadge Green decided to make a run for the NFR, my guess is there's a good chance that a few of them would make it. If my daughter finished 16th or 17th at the end of the year, and two men made it.....well, there you go. It's pretty hard to deny that allowing men would increase the competition. Give me some examples of horses any of the above has trained that went on to be able to rodeo after they were futurited. I am genuinely curious how many of these men made horse you hear of after they turn the age of 7 that became successful rodeo horses. Or NFR caliber ones.
I have no doubt these men can make a horse. But an NFR caliber rodeo horse is a lot different than a big 4D jackpot horse.
I know for a fact that one of the men you named goes through literally 100 head to find maybe 3 that can be successful in the futurity pen.
I obviously didn't mention every male futurity rider and every trainer. I just threw out a few examples. What's your point, Val? | |
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 Forever Young
Posts: 6768
Location: relocated to Texas | NJJ - 2014-03-09 3:20 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 4:01 PM NJJ - 2014-03-08 3:15 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 3:03 PM It tells me that deep down inside, many women fear men's participation lessons their chances of success. They don't want more competition, even though men are not at any advantage.
. You kind of had me moving toward your side until this asinine statement..........
I'm not running for public office, Norma, so I'm not looking for your vote.
I doubt you need my input to sway your opinion, one way or another.
Oh come one Norma, there are certainly some women in the WPRA who do not want to include men because of the competition. They didn't want to include younger riders either after Fallon Taylor did so well for fear there would be too many kids that dominated. One argument I heard for that was that it is the "Womens Professional Rodeo Association" and these women need to be able to make a living with rodeo where the kids do not.
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Forever Young
Posts: 6768
Location: relocated to Texas | Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-09 4:19 PM Here's a thought. The reason we don't want men in the WPRA (running at the NFR) is because WOMEN worked so hard to get the barrel race in pro rodeo to where it is today that WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE with you men. It's not fear at all. It's wanting to hold on to what we women collectively earned and keep all of it for ourselves. Sound familiar?
This comment is almost funny. You say that women want to keep men out because WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE WITH YOU MEN. Then you say, its not fear at all. Well, if you are not afraid that men are going to win, than what are you afraid to share?
Don't misunderstand me here. I don't think the WPRA should be forced to include men in their ranks. I don't think that any organization should be forced to be coed. BUT, and here is the rub girls - IF MEN IN BARREL RACING BECOMES POPULAR WITH THE FANS, THE WPRA IS EITHER GOING TO HAVE TO CHANGE WITH THE TIMES, OR THE PRCA JUST MIGHT TAKE OVER THE BARREL RACING AT THEIR RODEOS, INCLUDE THE MEN AND THE WPRA WILL BE OUT IN THE COLD. The fact is, the two barrel racers who got the most attention from the FANS at the American were June Holeman and Clint Sherlin. The crowd loved Clint. That is pretty hard to ignore from a producer's standpoint. Rodeo is a show, and the producers are going to do what pleases the crowd/sells the tickets. | |
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More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 7:31 PM CYA Ranch - 2014-03-08 7:28 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 7:24 PM SKM - 2014-03-08 5:08 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 3:30 PM Thanks for the spelling lesson, Norma. I always seem to misspell certain words, and I also frequently put the "e" before the "i", if I'm not careful.
I should re-phrase my remark.....it's not that they fear men, per se', rather, they recognize that more men competing will have a certain impact that will make things harder. For example, if my wife or daughter wanted to make a run for the NFR, allowing men to compete probably will have a negative impact on her chances. No mystery here. In other words, if people like Lance Graves, Brett Monroe, and Talmadge Green decided to make a run for the NFR, my guess is there's a good chance that a few of them would make it. If my daughter finished 16th or 17th at the end of the year, and two men made it.....well, there you go. It's pretty hard to deny that allowing men would increase the competition. Give me some examples of horses any of the above has trained that went on to be able to rodeo after they were futurited. I am genuinely curious how many of these men made horse you hear of after they turn the age of 7 that became successful rodeo horses. Or NFR caliber ones.
I have no doubt these men can make a horse. But an NFR caliber rodeo horse is a lot different than a big 4D jackpot horse.
I know for a fact that one of the men you named goes through literally 100 head to find maybe 3 that can be successful in the futurity pen.
I was just answering your question Doc and from any post I've made on this thread you know my thoughts. Sorry if that offends you but its the way I feel. I have no problem if guys do the 4D's and futurities but the WPRA needs to stay the way it is for no other reason than it was started for women and it should stay for women. | |
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 Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
| HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 3:03 PM
That is interesting, Bennie. Â I didn't know that. Â Thanks!
Basically, you gave a great account of how women were able to secure a spot in pro rodeo, without having added pressure of male competition. They feel they earned it, hence the "WPRA".  The name itself will sufficiently keep men out of pro rodeo, let's face it.  As long as the WPRA has cornered the market and shut men out of barrel racing, there is nothing to fear.  Men won't be flocking to enter pro rodeo, so long as the WPRA is in control.  Women will have to hold on to this gimmick, and that is, in effect, what it is.  That's their right.  I defend their right to refuse to allow men to compete in barrel racing in pro rodeo.  I just think it discriminates without a good reason.....apart from "tradition".  It tells me that deep down inside, many women fear men's participation lessons their chances of success.  They don't want more competition, even though men are not at any advantage.
I would like to think that most people enjoy watching barrel racing because they like to see the good horsemanship on good horses, and that all the pretty bling and fashion is of secondary importance. Â Maybe I'm wrong.....maybe they couldn't care less. Â
This argument is actually, in many ways, quite analagous to what baseball went through before 1947. Â Men with dark skin were banned from major league baseball, and the affiliated minor leagues.
After all, it was Abner Doubleday, a white man, who invented the sport, and white men paid their dues by participating in it from 1839. Â It wasn't until around the turn of the century that Blacks were even allowed to play baseball. Â It was a white man's game.....until the Negro Leagues and later Jackie Robinson finally broke the color line.
I see a lot of similarity with your line of thinking.
I think and hope the American will be remembered as a breakthrough.Â
 That's right, Doc. You are rodeo barrel racing's "Jackie Robinson". | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | CYA Ranch - 2014-03-08 7:49 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 7:31 PM CYA Ranch - 2014-03-08 7:28 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 7:24 PM SKM - 2014-03-08 5:08 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 3:30 PM Thanks for the spelling lesson, Norma. I always seem to misspell certain words, and I also frequently put the "e" before the "i", if I'm not careful.
I should re-phrase my remark.....it's not that they fear men, per se', rather, they recognize that more men competing will have a certain impact that will make things harder. For example, if my wife or daughter wanted to make a run for the NFR, allowing men to compete probably will have a negative impact on her chances. No mystery here. In other words, if people like Lance Graves, Brett Monroe, and Talmadge Green decided to make a run for the NFR, my guess is there's a good chance that a few of them would make it. If my daughter finished 16th or 17th at the end of the year, and two men made it.....well, there you go. It's pretty hard to deny that allowing men would increase the competition. Give me some examples of horses any of the above has trained that went on to be able to rodeo after they were futurited. I am genuinely curious how many of these men made horse you hear of after they turn the age of 7 that became successful rodeo horses. Or NFR caliber ones.
I have no doubt these men can make a horse. But an NFR caliber rodeo horse is a lot different than a big 4D jackpot horse.
I know for a fact that one of the men you named goes through literally 100 head to find maybe 3 that can be successful in the futurity pen.
Val, you never offend me, and lord knows I love your kuchen. Let's just get that out there! This is just a good spirited debate. I make my case, and others make theirs.
Frankly, I think it's really senseless to make any competition exclusive to gender, when there's no distinct advantage of one gender over the other. In fact, the reverse could be argued, that women have the advantage when weight is considered. I'm still looking for good reasons for keeping men locked out of pro rodeo barrel racing.....so far, in my opinion, I don't see any. That's just my opinion. I think people are getting angry and frustrated just at the idea of men competing in pro rodeo. | |
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Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Hollywood's Fan - 2014-03-08 7:43 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-09 4:19 PM Here's a thought. The reason we don't want men in the WPRA (running at the NFR) is because WOMEN worked so hard to get the barrel race in pro rodeo to where it is today that WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE with you men. It's not fear at all. It's wanting to hold on to what we women collectively earned and keep all of it for ourselves. Sound familiar? This comment is almost funny. You say that women want to keep men out because WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE WITH YOU MEN. Then you say, its not fear at all. Well, if you are not afraid that men are going to win, than what are you afraid to share?
Don't misunderstand me here. I don't think the WPRA should be forced to include men in their ranks. I don't think that any organization should be forced to be coed. BUT, and here is the rub girls - IF MEN IN BARREL RACING BECOMES POPULAR WITH THE FANS, THE WPRA IS EITHER GOING TO HAVE TO CHANGE WITH THE TIMES, OR THE PRCA JUST MIGHT TAKE OVER THE BARREL RACING AT THEIR RODEOS, INCLUDE THE MEN AND THE WPRA WILL BE OUT IN THE COLD. The fact is, the two barrel racers who got the most attention from the FANS at the American were June Holeman and Clint Sherlin. The crowd loved Clint. That is pretty hard to ignore from a producer's standpoint. Rodeo is a show, and the producers are going to do what pleases the crowd/sells the tickets.
That won't happen for, at least, another five years. The PRCA is locked into contracts with the WPRA to provide the barrel racing at the WNFR through 2019.....Now, by that time, I predict that the men won't care because the concept of the "American" will have taken over in the money department. I just don't see any of the men running up and down the road to 50+ rodeos to qualify for the NFR IF (and when) they can win more at rodeos like the American. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | NJJ - 2014-03-08 8:04 PM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-03-08 7:43 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-09 4:19 PM Here's a thought. The reason we don't want men in the WPRA (running at the NFR) is because WOMEN worked so hard to get the barrel race in pro rodeo to where it is today that WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE with you men. It's not fear at all. It's wanting to hold on to what we women collectively earned and keep all of it for ourselves. Sound familiar? This comment is almost funny. You say that women want to keep men out because WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE WITH YOU MEN. Then you say, its not fear at all. Well, if you are not afraid that men are going to win, than what are you afraid to share?
Don't misunderstand me here. I don't think the WPRA should be forced to include men in their ranks. I don't think that any organization should be forced to be coed. BUT, and here is the rub girls - IF MEN IN BARREL RACING BECOMES POPULAR WITH THE FANS, THE WPRA IS EITHER GOING TO HAVE TO CHANGE WITH THE TIMES, OR THE PRCA JUST MIGHT TAKE OVER THE BARREL RACING AT THEIR RODEOS, INCLUDE THE MEN AND THE WPRA WILL BE OUT IN THE COLD. The fact is, the two barrel racers who got the most attention from the FANS at the American were June Holeman and Clint Sherlin. The crowd loved Clint. That is pretty hard to ignore from a producer's standpoint. Rodeo is a show, and the producers are going to do what pleases the crowd/sells the tickets.
You may be right there, Norma. | |
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Forever Young
Posts: 6768
Location: relocated to Texas | NJJ - 2014-03-09 7:04 PM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-03-08 7:43 PM Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-09 4:19 PM Here's a thought. The reason we don't want men in the WPRA (running at the NFR) is because WOMEN worked so hard to get the barrel race in pro rodeo to where it is today that WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE with you men. It's not fear at all. It's wanting to hold on to what we women collectively earned and keep all of it for ourselves. Sound familiar? This comment is almost funny. You say that women want to keep men out because WE DON'T WANT TO SHARE WITH YOU MEN. Then you say, its not fear at all. Well, if you are not afraid that men are going to win, than what are you afraid to share?
Don't misunderstand me here. I don't think the WPRA should be forced to include men in their ranks. I don't think that any organization should be forced to be coed. BUT, and here is the rub girls - IF MEN IN BARREL RACING BECOMES POPULAR WITH THE FANS, THE WPRA IS EITHER GOING TO HAVE TO CHANGE WITH THE TIMES, OR THE PRCA JUST MIGHT TAKE OVER THE BARREL RACING AT THEIR RODEOS, INCLUDE THE MEN AND THE WPRA WILL BE OUT IN THE COLD. The fact is, the two barrel racers who got the most attention from the FANS at the American were June Holeman and Clint Sherlin. The crowd loved Clint. That is pretty hard to ignore from a producer's standpoint. Rodeo is a show, and the producers are going to do what pleases the crowd/sells the tickets.
I would say you are right there, Norma. Men are going to go where the money is, IMO that is why you see so many of them in futurities. There may not be a lot of men who want to pound the rodeo road to try to make it to the NFR. But, if the right opportunity came along, the guys might want to make a bid for the NFR as the money keeps getting bigger there. The PRCA may at some time decide not to renew the contract with the WPRA.
Edited by Hollywood's Fan 2014-03-08 8:11 PM
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Just as an aside, I just want to post this run by Bob Manor. I know June Holeman was the darling of the American, because she is such a nice person and a heck of a hand....plus she is 70 1/2. Everyone who has followed barrel racing and rodeo knows June. Everyone loves her. Bob is about as good as they come, in spite of his age....which I believe is 77-78!!! I would LOVE to see Bob run at the American, and when I see him I am going to encourage him to take a shot at it. Not that many people outside of the midwest know Bob very well. Here he's on his good stud, but he rides all his horses this way.
http://www.barrelhorseworld.com/horsedetail.asp?id=181850 | |
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