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 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
     
Location: Broxton, Ga | jbhoot - 2014-04-13 7:13 PM Well after 11 pages of this thread. I have come a conclusion. Never ask for jury trial. Both sides have presented facts and arguments and both sides are still locked into their opinions. I think it is time to call this a hang jury. LOL!!!
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Grammar Expert
| Now the Bundy's have a donate button on their blog. So, not paying grazing fees for 20-25 years didn't pad the savings account a bit?? |
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Grammar Expert
| And they are called out the auction house that said they would take in the cattle. So, in their 15 minutes of fame, they are going to take someone's livelihood with them in the form of boycotting this auction house.
Shame on the Bundys. |
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 Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | TXBO - 2014-04-14 5:15 PM musikmaker - 2014-04-14 5:57 PM Ahhhh...I now see the 'hangup'...you're assuming I have a complete disdain for the fed & am blind to any & all authority they may have..lol. You're kinda right! As said before, this isn't so much about Bundy & his cattle as it's about the states wanting our land...it became especially important to the masses out here during the gov't shutdown last year...many finally realized that we need the same 'Independence' as the originals....it's past time & the only way to achieve it is to finally recieve our equal footing.
Yes...the 'fed' is the agency in which Bundy owes the grazing fees.
Maybe we simply need to sign our own 'Declaration of Independence'? Hmmmm....
This is a c/p from the Inventory Report on Jurisdictional Status of Federal Areas Within the States (commonly refered to as the Eisenhower Report...sorry for that) which explains the 'Proprietary Jusrisdiction' (yeah it worked! New computers...all windows 8.1...headache):
Proprietorial Interest Only. This term is applied to
those instances wherein the Federal Government has
acquired some right of title to an area in a State
but has not obtained any measure of the State's
authority over the area. In applying this definition,
recognition should be given to the fact that the United
States, by virtue of its functions and authority under
various provisions of the Constitution, has many powers
and immunities not possessed by ordinary landholders
with respect to areas in which it acquires an interest,
and of the further fact that all its properties and
functions are held or performed in a governmental
rather than a proprietary capacity.
Musik, I love ya but that post is pure jiberish. There's not a hint of cognitive retort to my comment.
And you are a complete pita...lol.
You wanted a 'retort'!
Ok...start over:
TXBO - 2014-04-14 4:17 PMmusikmaker - 2014-04-14 4:50 PM......
And...TXBO, a Code 4 jurisdiction gives the authority to the state. Period. Our sheriff is the power...
.......
Here we go again.....
Yes the state has legislative jurisdiction but the fed owns the land and maintains a proprietary interest. That grants the fed all the rights of any land owner in NV as well as some additional.
Here's the easiest deliniation I can come up with:
Say I own 1000 acres in NV. If I want to allow people to hunt the land, I can. If I want to post the land and not allow hunting I can. The state has no say. I maintain the landowner rights. However, anybody that hunts there has to have a NV hunting license and follow all the laws of NV. I maintain proprietary rights. NV maintains jurisdiction and authority.
Same would be true for the fed's proprietary rights. Same would be true for leasing grazing rights.
BTW.... that report was written over 50 years ago. Jurisdiction may have changed.
Jurisdiction has not changed...will not unless we have a change of gov't.
(Is that better?)
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 Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| musikmaker - 2014-04-14 6:27 PM TXBO - 2014-04-14 5:15 PM musikmaker - 2014-04-14 5:57 PM Ahhhh...I now see the 'hangup'...you're assuming I have a complete disdain for the fed & am blind to any & all authority they may have..lol. You're kinda right! As said before, this isn't so much about Bundy & his cattle as it's about the states wanting our land...it became especially important to the masses out here during the gov't shutdown last year...many finally realized that we need the same 'Independence' as the originals....it's past time & the only way to achieve it is to finally recieve our equal footing.
Yes...the 'fed' is the agency in which Bundy owes the grazing fees.
Maybe we simply need to sign our own 'Declaration of Independence'? Hmmmm....
This is a c/p from the Inventory Report on Jurisdictional Status of Federal Areas Within the States (commonly refered to as the Eisenhower Report...sorry for that) which explains the 'Proprietary Jusrisdiction' (yeah it worked! New computers...all windows 8.1...headache):
Proprietorial Interest Only. This term is applied to
those instances wherein the Federal Government has
acquired some right of title to an area in a State
but has not obtained any measure of the State's
authority over the area. In applying this definition,
recognition should be given to the fact that the United
States, by virtue of its functions and authority under
various provisions of the Constitution, has many powers
and immunities not possessed by ordinary landholders
with respect to areas in which it acquires an interest,
and of the further fact that all its properties and
functions are held or performed in a governmental
rather than a proprietary capacity.
Musik, I love ya but that post is pure jiberish. There's not a hint of cognitive retort to my comment.
You wanted a 'retort'!
Ok...start over:
TXBO - 2014-04-14 4:17 PM
musikmaker - 2014-04-14 4:50 PM......
And...TXBO, a Code 4 jurisdiction gives the authority to the state. Period. Our sheriff is the power...
.......
Here we go again.....
Yes the state has legislative jurisdiction but the fed owns the land and maintains a proprietary interest. That grants the fed all the rights of any land owner in NV as well as some additional.
Here's the easiest deliniation I can come up with:
Say I own 1000 acres in NV. If I want to allow people to hunt the land, I can. If I want to post the land and not allow hunting I can. The state has no say. I maintain the landowner rights. However, anybody that hunts there has to have a NV hunting license and follow all the laws of NV. I maintain proprietary rights. NV maintains jurisdiction and authority.
Same would be true for the fed's proprietary rights. Same would be true for leasing grazing rights.
BTW.... that report was written over 50 years ago. Jurisdiction may have changed.
Jurisdiction has not changed...will not unless we have a change of gov't.
(Is that better?)
You're just not catching on to the fact that a proprietary right is all the fed needs to evict Cliven from their land. Jurisdiction has absolutely nothing to do with it.
And yes jurisdiction certainly does change and has in the last 50 years without a change of government. Find any military interest that was built since that report and you will also find that jurisdiction changed. |
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Grammar Expert
| Here is a strange tidbit, Peterson AFB is not on federal land, it's on city/state land!! Therefore the military on Peterson has to abide by City/State laws when Fort Carson and Schriever AFB do not have to. In fact, CSPD will come to Peterson and make arrests if and when needed and do not need permission to access the base.
There are many, many, many instances of ownership trumping what people think should happen. It's also been a big shock to many to find out that they own land, but not the rights to the minerals under that land. |
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Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | TXBO - 2014-04-14 5:35 PM musikmaker - 2014-04-14 6:27 PM TXBO - 2014-04-14 5:15 PM musikmaker - 2014-04-14 5:57 PM Ahhhh...I now see the 'hangup'...you're assuming I have a complete disdain for the fed & am blind to any & all authority they may have..lol. You're kinda right! As said before, this isn't so much about Bundy & his cattle as it's about the states wanting our land...it became especially important to the masses out here during the gov't shutdown last year...many finally realized that we need the same 'Independence' as the originals....it's past time & the only way to achieve it is to finally recieve our equal footing.
Yes...the 'fed' is the agency in which Bundy owes the grazing fees.
Maybe we simply need to sign our own 'Declaration of Independence'? Hmmmm....
This is a c/p from the Inventory Report on Jurisdictional Status of Federal Areas Within the States (commonly refered to as the Eisenhower Report...sorry for that) which explains the 'Proprietary Jusrisdiction' (yeah it worked! New computers...all windows 8.1...headache):
Proprietorial Interest Only. This term is applied to
those instances wherein the Federal Government has
acquired some right of title to an area in a State
but has not obtained any measure of the State's
authority over the area. In applying this definition,
recognition should be given to the fact that the United
States, by virtue of its functions and authority under
various provisions of the Constitution, has many powers
and immunities not possessed by ordinary landholders
with respect to areas in which it acquires an interest,
and of the further fact that all its properties and
functions are held or performed in a governmental
rather than a proprietary capacity.
Musik, I love ya but that post is pure jiberish. There's not a hint of cognitive retort to my comment.
You wanted a 'retort'!
Ok...start over:
TXBO - 2014-04-14 4:17 PM
musikmaker - 2014-04-14 4:50 PM......
And...TXBO, a Code 4 jurisdiction gives the authority to the state. Period. Our sheriff is the power...
.......
Here we go again.....
Yes the state has legislative jurisdiction but the fed owns the land and maintains a proprietary interest. That grants the fed all the rights of any land owner in NV as well as some additional.
Here's the easiest deliniation I can come up with:
Say I own 1000 acres in NV. If I want to allow people to hunt the land, I can. If I want to post the land and not allow hunting I can. The state has no say. I maintain the landowner rights. However, anybody that hunts there has to have a NV hunting license and follow all the laws of NV. I maintain proprietary rights. NV maintains jurisdiction and authority.
Same would be true for the fed's proprietary rights. Same would be true for leasing grazing rights.
BTW.... that report was written over 50 years ago. Jurisdiction may have changed.
Jurisdiction has not changed...will not unless we have a change of gov't.
(Is that better?)
And yes jurisdiction certainly does change and has in the last 50 years without a change of government. Find any military interest that was built since that report and you will also find that jurisdiction changed.
I'm quite certain that the entire arguement was whether the Sheriff had the jurisdiction/authority or the fed...see, the fed can request, the Sheriff can refuse. I'm right & I know it. Haha...
The Constitution is even older that the 'Report', but, the intent hasn't changed although many pretend it has.
There's so much more than this to present a case against federal land ownership....they don't 'own' it...they can claim 'some right of title' mostly by way of their failure to 'dispose' of it as agreed.
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  Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | smiley - 2014-04-14 6:23 PM
And they are called out the auction house that said they would take in the cattle. So, in their 15 minutes of fame, they are going to take someone's livelihood with them in the form of boycotting this auction house.
Shame on the Bundys.
What is wrong for outing an outfit that is willing to deal in stolen merchandise? |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | http://www.mynews4.com/news/local/story/Sen-Reid-on-Cattle-Battle-Its-not-over/nT5weKnqFkezV14I5GhESg.cspx
What a joke. This is what Harry Reid said..
"RENO, Nev. (MyNews4.com & KRNV) -- Senate majority leader Harry Reid hasn't been very vocal about the cattle battle showdown in recent days, but says "it's not over."
Reid tells News4's Samantha Boatman his take on the so-called cattle battle in southern Las Vegas. "Well, it's not over. We can't have an American people that violate the law and then just walk away from it. So it's not over," Reid said.
Senator Reid had just wrapped up a speech and question and answer session with students at UNR."
I guess only Politicians and illegals can break the laws of this country. Illegals get rewarded for breaking the laws of entering this country.
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| musikmaker - 2014-04-14 7:00 PM TXBO - 2014-04-14 5:35 PM musikmaker - 2014-04-14 6:27 PM TXBO - 2014-04-14 5:15 PM musikmaker - 2014-04-14 5:57 PM Ahhhh...I now see the 'hangup'...you're assuming I have a complete disdain for the fed & am blind to any & all authority they may have..lol. You're kinda right! As said before, this isn't so much about Bundy & his cattle as it's about the states wanting our land...it became especially important to the masses out here during the gov't shutdown last year...many finally realized that we need the same 'Independence' as the originals....it's past time & the only way to achieve it is to finally recieve our equal footing.
Yes...the 'fed' is the agency in which Bundy owes the grazing fees.
Maybe we simply need to sign our own 'Declaration of Independence'? Hmmmm....
This is a c/p from the Inventory Report on Jurisdictional Status of Federal Areas Within the States (commonly refered to as the Eisenhower Report...sorry for that) which explains the 'Proprietary Jusrisdiction' (yeah it worked! New computers...all windows 8.1...headache):
Proprietorial Interest Only. This term is applied to
those instances wherein the Federal Government has
acquired some right of title to an area in a State
but has not obtained any measure of the State's
authority over the area. In applying this definition,
recognition should be given to the fact that the United
States, by virtue of its functions and authority under
various provisions of the Constitution, has many powers
and immunities not possessed by ordinary landholders
with respect to areas in which it acquires an interest,
and of the further fact that all its properties and
functions are held or performed in a governmental
rather than a proprietary capacity.
Musik, I love ya but that post is pure jiberish. There's not a hint of cognitive retort to my comment.
You wanted a 'retort'!
Ok...start over:
TXBO - 2014-04-14 4:17 PM
musikmaker - 2014-04-14 4:50 PM......
And...TXBO, a Code 4 jurisdiction gives the authority to the state. Period. Our sheriff is the power...
.......
Here we go again.....
Yes the state has legislative jurisdiction but the fed owns the land and maintains a proprietary interest. That grants the fed all the rights of any land owner in NV as well as some additional.
Here's the easiest deliniation I can come up with:
Say I own 1000 acres in NV. If I want to allow people to hunt the land, I can. If I want to post the land and not allow hunting I can. The state has no say. I maintain the landowner rights. However, anybody that hunts there has to have a NV hunting license and follow all the laws of NV. I maintain proprietary rights. NV maintains jurisdiction and authority.
Same would be true for the fed's proprietary rights. Same would be true for leasing grazing rights.
BTW.... that report was written over 50 years ago. Jurisdiction may have changed.
Jurisdiction has not changed...will not unless we have a change of gov't.
(Is that better?)
And yes jurisdiction certainly does change and has in the last 50 years without a change of government. Find any military interest that was built since that report and you will also find that jurisdiction changed.
The Constitution is even older that the 'Report', but, the intent hasn't changed although many pretend it has.
There's so much more than this to present a case against federal land ownership....they don't 'own' it...they can claim 'some right of title' mostly by way of their failure to 'dispose' of it as agreed.
That is complete BS! |
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 I'm not opinionated
Posts: 4597
Location: Online | Wow. How did I miss 12 pages of this? It's just a good thing I still have Finney on ignore. It's just easier that way. Easier on the blood pressure and prevents ulcers.
Media and Liberals are completely missing the point on the Bundy thing. Since it's been beat to death, I will refrain from typing for an hour.
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| Nevertooold - 2014-04-14 10:50 PM
http://www.mynews4.com/news/local/story/Sen-Reid-on-Cattle-Battle-Its-not-over/nT5weKnqFkezV14I5GhESg.cspxWhat a joke. This is what Harry Reid said.."RENO, Nev. (MyNews4.com & KRNV ) -- Senate majority leader Harry Reid hasn't been very vocal about the cattle battle showdown in recent days, but says "it's not over." Reid tells News4's Samantha Boatman his take on the so-called cattle battle in southern Las Vegas. "Well, it's not over. We can't have an American people that violate the law and then just walk away from it. So it's not over," Reid said. Senator Reid had just wrapped up a speech and question and answer session with students at UNR." I guess only Politicians and illegals can break the laws of this country. Illegals get rewarded for breaking the laws of entering this country.
The feds thought the Waco incident was over, its never over. |
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 Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | Wait.. someone mentioned... Mexico/Spain selling us land... What about the Land Grants Mexico/Spain dished out before this.. remember those?? What about the land those governments no longer had authority go give away? |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| Since this,family has been grazing this land for over 100 years so i dont know how much of this is grandfathered. Hopefully thru this they will aquire a good national know lawyer. I dont think it is about the cattle. I would like to see an itemized bill from the government. Also the government owes those people for the cows that they killed. It is biggermthan the cows. Remember in california that the government cut off the water to a bunch of farmers over something that they said was on the endangered species. I know down here there was am issue with some beach beatle you could build a seawall or pier without some study over that beatle you could not even see. You know how the government goes stupid.
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 My Heeler owns me
Posts: 2855
Location: No place better...East TN!! | I've read some of the 12 pages on this thread, but I just saw a Youtube video going around on Facebook stating that the Feds backed down & gave Bundy his cattle back.....now.....I'm assuming this video is a load of crap. Any truth to him getting any cattle back? |
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 Thread Killer
Posts: 7545
| daisycake123 - 2014-04-15 1:59 AM Since this,family has been grazing this land for over 100 years so i dont know how much of this is grandfathered. Hopefully thru this they will aquire a good national know lawyer. I dont think it is about the cattle. I would like to see an itemized bill from the government. Also the government owes those people for the cows that they killed. It is biggermthan the cows. Remember in california that the government cut off the water to a bunch of farmers over something that they said was on the endangered species. I know down here there was am issue with some beach beatle you could build a seawall or pier without some study over that beatle you could not even see. You know how the government goes stupid.
Well I'm pretty sure I know why they wanted to protect those Beatles. Did you know that they could sing? Very rare, in fact. |
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| STABALL - 2014-04-15 6:23 AM
I've read some of the 12 pages on this thread, but I just saw a Youtube video going around on Facebook stating that the Feds backed down & gave Bundy his cattle back.....now.....I'm assuming this video is a load of crap. Any truth to him getting any cattle back?
Yes the fed's gave him back the cattle. |
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My Heeler owns me
Posts: 2855
Location: No place better...East TN!! | jbhoot - 2014-04-15 8:15 AM
STABALL - 2014-04-15 6:23 AM
I've read some of the 12 pages on this thread, but I just saw a Youtube video going around on Facebook stating that the Feds backed down & gave Bundy his cattle back.....now.....I'm assuming this video is a load of crap. Any truth to him getting any cattle back?
Yes the fed's gave him back the cattle.
Ok....I hadn't read that he was given the cattle back, so I didn't know if there was any truth in the video. |
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Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| komet. - 2014-04-15 12:22 AM Wait.. someone mentioned... Mexico/Spain selling us land... What about the Land Grants Mexico/Spain dished out before this.. remember those?? What about the land those governments no longer had authority go give away?
Good point. The Tready of Guadalupe Hidalgo had a provision that all private property before the treaty would remain private property after.
Bundy doesn't claim to own it though. |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | smiley - 2014-04-14 6:46 PM Here is a strange tidbit, Peterson AFB is not on federal land, it's on city/state land!! Therefore the military on Peterson has to abide by City/State laws when Fort Carson and Schriever AFB do not have to. In fact, CSPD will come to Peterson and make arrests if and when needed and do not need permission to access the base.
There are many, many, many instances of ownership trumping what people think should happen. It's also been a big shock to many to find out that they own land, but not the rights to the minerals under that land.
My grandparents sold the mineral rights to our farm land early on. Some dude went around the county and snookered people into taking the easy money at a time when they needed it badly. I'm not sure if this is in perpetuity or if they revert back after a period of time if unused. I couldn't even tell you exactly WHO holds title to those rights today. |
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Folks on-line