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 Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
  
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | RustyNailRanch - 2016-01-31 10:53 AM musikmaker - 2016-01-31 11:41 AM RustyNailRanch - 2016-01-31 9:45 AM I can put a slightly different light on LaVoy Finicum. My daughter is an investigator for CPS and several attorneys who deal with CPS in Phoenix. A little less than 3 weeks ago, she got a welfare call on a long-standing foster family, specifically that the foster father who had been making rants, threats and was collecting a mass of guns. The man was LaVoy Finicum. She went to the residence and spoke to him for several hours. She said in addition to the presence of guns, a major no-no with foster kids, that the nature of his rants, radical ideas and "plans for the government" scared her. This is a gal who has seen and heard it all too. LaVoy went on to tell her he was going to Oregon and "would die doing it". His words were so disturbing and unnerving that she had no choice but to request that a judge to revoke his foster license and remove the children from the residence that day. My daughter often calls and lets us know of her unusual or problem cases, never naming names, just venting to us as parents. When she called about this guy, we had not idea who he was but the things that she told us were very frightening. We assured her that she made the right decision. This was a foster family that had been fostering for years, never a problem, never on the CPS radar...but something had snapped in this guy, he did a 180 from the foster parent that she originally knew. She said he was a straight-up wack job that day. I got a call from her on the day of the shooting in Oregon and she said that the man who had been shot was the CPS case she told us about 2 weeks earlier. She was so saddened by it but we reassured her that there was nothing that she could have done to prevent it. That made news when it happened, however, this doesn't make sense because Lavoy was IN Burns at the time. I would question the whole 'no guns' allowed because they fostered a lot of kids over the years mostly through the Catholic church, not cps, and of course the ranchers out west have guns...it's a necessity. Here's a link that is pretty much the same as the other stories that were circulating at the time with a very anti-patriot slant:
http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/militant-says-foster-children-were-pulled-from-his-home-lavoy-finicum-burns-oregon/
My daughter had an IN PERSON encounter with this guy nearly 3 weeks ago...she is the one who "pulled the kids" from him because of his perceived instability. He was not in Burns at the time. She was there, you were not. I knew about this 2+ weeks ago, I just didn't know his name because she couldn't reveal that until it went public. Additionally, I never said they were fostering FOR CPS. However, CPS did monitor them since they were licensed foster parents. ALL licensed fosters are subject to CPS and bound by their rules. It's her job, trust me...she knows the drill. Visible presence of guns are not allowed. If you still have your doubts, request a Freedom of Information request on the CPS investigation and you will see who the investigator was as well as the date. I can 100% guarantee you it was my daughter and it happened exactly when she said it did. My post was not about taking sides. I'm not taking his side, the ranchers side or the side of the government until more details come out, much like Ferguson.
Thank you for clarifying! Especially about the 'visible presence of guns'. I'm not doubting that your daughter is the one who investigated this. I surely don't want to get into what I think of CPS! lol... |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
 
Location: Florida.. | RustyNailRanch - 2016-01-31 12:53 PM musikmaker - 2016-01-31 11:41 AM RustyNailRanch - 2016-01-31 9:45 AM I can put a slightly different light on LaVoy Finicum. My daughter is an investigator for CPS and several attorneys who deal with CPS in Phoenix. A little less than 3 weeks ago, she got a welfare call on a long-standing foster family, specifically that the foster father who had been making rants, threats and was collecting a mass of guns. The man was LaVoy Finicum. She went to the residence and spoke to him for several hours. She said in addition to the presence of guns, a major no-no with foster kids, that the nature of his rants, radical ideas and "plans for the government" scared her. This is a gal who has seen and heard it all too. LaVoy went on to tell her he was going to Oregon and "would die doing it". His words were so disturbing and unnerving that she had no choice but to request that a judge to revoke his foster license and remove the children from the residence that day. My daughter often calls and lets us know of her unusual or problem cases, never naming names, just venting to us as parents. When she called about this guy, we had not idea who he was but the things that she told us were very frightening. We assured her that she made the right decision. This was a foster family that had been fostering for years, never a problem, never on the CPS radar...but something had snapped in this guy, he did a 180 from the foster parent that she originally knew. She said he was a straight-up wack job that day. I got a call from her on the day of the shooting in Oregon and she said that the man who had been shot was the CPS case she told us about 2 weeks earlier. She was so saddened by it but we reassured her that there was nothing that she could have done to prevent it. That made news when it happened, however, this doesn't make sense because Lavoy was IN Burns at the time. I would question the whole 'no guns' allowed because they fostered a lot of kids over the years mostly through the Catholic church, not cps, and of course the ranchers out west have guns...it's a necessity. Here's a link that is pretty much the same as the other stories that were circulating at the time with a very anti-patriot slant:
http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/militant-says-foster-children-were-pulled-from-his-home-lavoy-finicum-burns-oregon/
My daughter had an IN PERSON encounter with this guy nearly 3 weeks ago...she is the one who "pulled the kids" from him because of his perceived instability. He was not in Burns at the time. She was there, you were not. I knew about this 2+ weeks ago, I just didn't know his name because she couldn't reveal that until it went public. Additionally, I never said they were fostering FOR CPS. However, CPS did monitor them since they were licensed foster parents. ALL licensed fosters are subject to CPS and bound by their rules. It's her job, trust me...she knows the drill. Visible presence of guns are not allowed. If you still have your doubts, request a Freedom of Information request on the CPS investigation and you will see who the investigator was as well as the date. I can 100% guarantee you it was my daughter and it happened exactly when she said it did. My post was not about taking sides. I'm not taking his side, the ranchers side or the side of the government until more details come out, much like Ferguson.
Thank you for posting your information.. |
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Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | This just keeps getting more and more, um, interesting.
https://shastalantern.net/2016/01/special-agent-in-charge-greg-bretzing-linked-to-national-security-breach-fraud-and-corruption-in-salt-lake-city/
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I don't have any experience with grazing rights. How was it supposed to work on Finnicum's ranch? He says he purchased the grazing rights from a predecessor. So he did not actually own the land itself, correct? At some point the government decided to charge him for grazing on public lands, even though he paid the rancher who was there before him. Can someone explain this to me? Also, I'd like an explanation of the water issue. Just the facts, please. |
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Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | Bear - 2016-01-31 11:30 AM I don't have any experience with grazing rights. How was it supposed to work on Finnicum's ranch? He says he purchased the grazing rights from a predecessor. So he did not actually own the land itself, correct? At some point the government decided to charge him for grazing on public lands, even though he paid the rancher who was there before him. Can someone explain this to me? Also, I'd like an explanation of the water issue. Just the facts, please. That's how it works out here. During the era of the Homestead Act much of the west was not 'claimed' partly because it takes so much more land to feed cattle & water is also an issue...they 'upped' the acreage from 160 acres to 640 which helped and ranchers were also able to 'claim' grazing rights on other parcels. Think of grazing rights like you would oil rights...you don't buy the land you buy the resource, the ranchers 'own' the grass. I know that on the Navajo reservation the occupants lease the top 6" of the ground & I assume it's that way for grazing rights on land that was never properly disposed of, too. In most cases we now have ranchers who've bought grazing rights from someone else which is entirely legal. The water right goes with the grazing right.
The Taylor Grazing Act of 1934 was when the federal government started charging for grazing...here's a link explaining some of it, just remember that the fight started long before this and hasn't yet ended, as we know.
http://www.blm.gov/wy/st/en/field_offices/Casper/range/taylor.1.html
This is a link that also explains a lot...it shows the same arguement from the 1920-30's:
https://archive.org/stream/fourhundredmilli00wintrich/fourhundredmilli00wintrich_djvu.txt
It's not simple, especially after the executive branch got so much control moved to agencies that are not within the constitutional boundaries of our nation. Congress could nullify some, if not all, of these acts, of course they will not. The states could nullify the federal intrusion, they too, are afraid of the concequences. We receive PILT funding (Payment in Lieu of Taxes...better known as Pennies in Lieu of Trillions) that further create an environment of pure blackmail and bribery!
Those are facts! lol
Edited by musikmaker 2016-01-31 1:34 PM
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 Strong Willed Woman
Posts: 6577
Location: Prosser, WA | I don't believe for one minute that they want to take those rights away from the ranchers for public use. They don't want anyone out there. Not sure what they really want all the land for but in no way is it for the benefit of the public. |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | kakbarrelracer - 2016-01-31 2:05 PM I don't believe for one minute that they want to take those rights away from the ranchers for public use. They don't want anyone out there. Not sure what they really want all the land for but in no way is it for the benefit of the public.
So they can sell the mining rights to foreign countries like the POS McCain did in Arizona.
Defense Bill Passes, Giving Sacred Native American...http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/12/defense-bill-passes-rio-tinto_n_6317946.html Dec 12, 2014 ... The $585 billion National Defense Authorization Act of 2015 is one of the ... mining firm Rio Tinto 2,400 acres of the Tonto National Forest in exchange for ... giving American forest land to a foreign firm that has such a connection. .... So, after we've strip-mined, frakked and oil-spilled this country into a total ...
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | And then of course we have Hillary's thumb in the pie..Washington DC could care less about we the people. They laugh all the way to the bank.
Apr 23, 2015 ... Uranium One has the mining rights to Mr. Christensen's property. ... Members of that group built, financed and eventually sold off to the Russians a company that ... Foundation while Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton's office was ... If the Kazakh deal was a major victory, UrAsia did not wait long ...
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Nevertooold - 2016-01-31 3:05 PM
And then of course we have Hillary's thumb in the pie..Washington DC could care less about we the people. They laugh all the way to the bank. Apr 23, 2015 ... Uranium One has the mining rights to Mr. Christensen's property. ... Members of that group built, financed and eventually sold off to the Russians a company that ... Foundation while Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton's office was ... If the Kazakh deal was a major victory, UrAsia did not wait long ...
This kind of thing seems to be just ignored. I've never even seen a plausible denial that this took place. A lot of people are apathetic and don't give two sh!ts, but I also think a lot of people are so frustrated that they've given up....or they haven't reached a boiling point quite yet. Finicum and the others like him evidently have reached that stage where it's literally do or die in their mind's eye.
This is one reason why a guy like Trump is surprising people with his popularity. He is a populist who doesn't give a dam about political correctness, or even the political parties, for that matter. I'm not saying I'm a Trump supporter, but I love that he is be holding to nobody and his "Make America Great Again" slogan is resonating. A lot of people supporting him are figuring it's time to roll the dice. |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | RustyNailRanch - 2016-01-31 11:30 AM
Exactly...mainly because of remarks like that. FYI-I've been a BHW member for a long time, I just never post. Check my profile...I joined 3 YEARS AGO and not today as your post suggests!
Wasn't aware there was a post quota in order to have an opinion.
Additionally, my post isn't in favor or the government or the ranchers since I wasn't there. Not siding with one or the other. BUT it does offer an firsthand accounting to the mindset of this guy just prior to him leaving for Oregon.
Is it public knowledge who foster families are? I know nothing about that area. . . |
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | As far as the mindset of LaVoy...I try to put myself in their shoes and I do know that I wouldn't stand back and just let them do this without a fight. I'm sure everyone would declare I had lost my mind and they would probably be right. The BLM has been poking and pimping some ranchers for a long time. This isn't something that just started. I can't imagine how the rancher that lives in Texas along the Red River feels about the BLM taking claims on half of his family ranch that the family has owned since the 1940's, and includes his home.
People need to understand that most of these ranches have a home and acreage that was bought and paid for by them and the BLM grazing leases are used for them to be able to make a living that also includes cheap beef for us. Control the food and water...You control the people.
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Bear - 2016-01-31 11:26 AM Terrible audio quality. I couldn't listen beyond the first 2 minutes of her talking. I'll wait for something of better quality. Also, does anyone know anything about the autopsy? Was there even an autopsy? There should be. Naturally LaVoy's people are going to call this murder and describe the events in such a way to support their version. I just want the truth, one way or the other, just like I wanted the truth when the thug in Fergusson Missouri was shot.
It is to bad the audio is so poor. In a nutshell she said when they stopped the first time Lavoy rolled his window down and was yelling they were headed to see the sheriff. Ryan rolled his window down and put both hands out the window and they started shooting at him! Shooting out the truck mirror. So thats why they took off again. The second road block was set up after a corner so no time to really stop. LaVoy decided to try to go around. LaVoy got out of the truck, put his hands in the air and started walking back and they just started shooting. They hit him several times and that is what he reached for......where he had been shot. They also immediatelly started shooting aggressively at the truck. They didnt wait for nothing. They fired the first shot and all shots. He was unarmed. He had left his guns at the refuge and thats where they still are. She had gotten some video, but authorities now have it as it was in the truck so we will never see it. There was a Mark somebody in the truck, and they believe he was a FBI plant. They were completely set up and they knew exactly where they would be and when and appearantly nobody knew him prior. |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | jbhoot - 2016-01-31 11:39 AM Bear - 2016-01-31 11:26 AM Terrible audio quality. I couldn't listen beyond the first 2 minutes of her talking. I'll wait for something of better quality. Also, does anyone know anything about the autopsy? Was there even an autopsy? There should be. Naturally LaVoy's people are going to call this murder and describe the events in such a way to support their version. I just want the truth, one way or the other, just like I wanted the truth when the thug in Fergusson Missouri was shot. There are better ones out there Scott. It may be her views on the incident but I find it hard to believe mainly because several of her statements do not match the unedited video.
There are 2 different people who have givin audio accounts that were in that truck. This lady that I posted, and then the 18 year old girl. The 18 yr old girls account was very rattled but understandably so especially givin her age. She also didnt actually see much because they had all pushed her down on the floor of the truck and were shielding her as best they could. I dont know how anybody could say this ladys account doesnt match up because I was watched it and watched it and watched close up's and it matches perfectly and explains alot. |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Here is the petition for the Hammonds. I hope everybody signs it. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov//petition/free-hammonds-0 |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Nevertooold - 2016-01-31 6:59 PM As far as the mindset of LaVoy...I try to put myself in their shoes and I do know that I wouldn't stand back and just let them do this without a fight. I'm sure everyone would declare I had lost my mind and they would probably be right. The BLM has been poking and pimping some ranchers for a long time. This isn't something that just started. I can't imagine how the rancher that lives in Texas along the Red River feels about the BLM taking claims on half of his family ranch that the family has owned since the 1940's, and includes his home.
People need to understand that most of these ranches have a home and acreage that was bought and paid for by them and the BLM grazing leases are used for them to be able to make a living that also includes cheap beef for us. Control the food and water...You control the people.
trying to understand this... so did they build a home on land that was leased or bought grazing rights or on their own property that have a deed for and own outright.. If it is on the land they only have grazing rights on I dont understand why they would build on that.. did they just assume nothing would change or happen? |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Bear - 2016-01-31 12:30 PM
I don't have any experience with grazing rights. How was it supposed to work on Finnicum's ranch? He says he purchased the grazing rights from a predecessor. So he did not actually own the land itself, correct? At some point the government decided to charge him for grazing on public lands, even though he paid the rancher who was there before him. Can someone explain this to me? Also, I'd like an explanation of the water issue. Just the facts, please.
For a visual, here is a ranch for sale where I'm from that also carries BLM grazing permits with it. Most of the ranches have x amount of deeded land like any other piece of property you buy, and then many also carry with them deeded "grazing rights" on additional acreage of BLM land. So many are a mix of both and also carry x amount of water rights for a specific amount of acreage.. http://www.oregonranchland.com/ranches188.htm |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | ThreeCorners - 2016-01-31 7:31 PM Bear - 2016-01-31 11:26 AM Terrible audio quality. I couldn't listen beyond the first 2 minutes of her talking. I'll wait for something of better quality. Also, does anyone know anything about the autopsy? Was there even an autopsy? There should be. Naturally LaVoy's people are going to call this murder and describe the events in such a way to support their version. I just want the truth, one way or the other, just like I wanted the truth when the thug in Fergusson Missouri was shot.
They clearly sat there for a few minutes.. it didnt just happen that way.. thats all speculation.. |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Bibliafarm - 2016-01-31 7:11 PM Nevertooold - 2016-01-31 6:59 PM As far as the mindset of LaVoy...I try to put myself in their shoes and I do know that I wouldn't stand back and just let them do this without a fight. I'm sure everyone would declare I had lost my mind and they would probably be right. The BLM has been poking and pimping some ranchers for a long time. This isn't something that just started. I can't imagine how the rancher that lives in Texas along the Red River feels about the BLM taking claims on half of his family ranch that the family has owned since the 1940's, and includes his home.
People need to understand that most of these ranches have a home and acreage that was bought and paid for by them and the BLM grazing leases are used for them to be able to make a living that also includes cheap beef for us. Control the food and water...You control the people.
trying to understand this... so did they build a home on land that was leased or bought grazing rights or on their own property that have a deed for and own outright.. If it is on the land they only have grazing rights on I dont understand why they would build on that.. did they just assume nothing would change or happen?
It is my undserstanding Finicum's ranch was partly owned deeded land and then additional grazing rights on BLM land. Much like the ranch I posted a listing for as an examply of how it works. |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | http://www.freecapitalist.com/2016/01/31/second-eyewitness-chronicling-the-tragic-ambush-and-murder-of-lavoy-finicum-video/ |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | ThreeCorners - 2016-01-31 8:26 PM Bibliafarm - 2016-01-31 7:11 PM Nevertooold - 2016-01-31 6:59 PM As far as the mindset of LaVoy...I try to put myself in their shoes and I do know that I wouldn't stand back and just let them do this without a fight. I'm sure everyone would declare I had lost my mind and they would probably be right. The BLM has been poking and pimping some ranchers for a long time. This isn't something that just started. I can't imagine how the rancher that lives in Texas along the Red River feels about the BLM taking claims on half of his family ranch that the family has owned since the 1940's, and includes his home.
People need to understand that most of these ranches have a home and acreage that was bought and paid for by them and the BLM grazing leases are used for them to be able to make a living that also includes cheap beef for us. Control the food and water...You control the people.
trying to understand this... so did they build a home on land that was leased or bought grazing rights or on their own property that have a deed for and own outright.. If it is on the land they only have grazing rights on I dont understand why they would build on that.. did they just assume nothing would change or happen?
So he built his home on leased land.. and when they wanted it back .. he lost it.. makes me wonder why build on that part.. or am i confused.. |
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