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 Forever Young
Posts: 6768
    
Location: relocated to Texas | NJJ - 2014-03-10 7:55 AM Stitch4k9 - 2014-03-09 1:09 AM
Glad everyone enjoyed the American but I seriously doubt it will replace the PRCA or the NFR. Sponsors want as much bang for their buck as they can get. One Sunday in Dallas does not compare to 10 televised days, meetings, etc., in Vegas. And again its that tradition thing.
karen
This we will have to see......I don't think the American will ever put the PRCA and the NFR out of business but they sure may give them a run for their money (sponsors). When you p*ff off over 80+ of your top cowboys and cowgirls to the point that they want to start a new association, you have certainly shot yourself in the foot. I don't think any of them will "trust" the PRCA again. Additionally, I look for the American to expand and be more that a one day shot....maybe high $$ qualifiers or more money in the semi-finals, etc.....who knows......One thing for sure, it gave all cowboys and cowgirls a place to win some REAL money....
I agree with this. I think what the American did was show some folks that the PRCA does not have to be the only game in town. It did give the cowboys and cowgirls some real money to run at. If RFD TV gets behind a new association, the sky could be the limit because they have a venue to get to the audience 365 days a year, 24/7. The sponsors are going to flock to that kind of exposure. Those changes could bring men into barrel racing on the same level as women (within that association) and it could happen fairly quickly. I would say within the next few years. Some big money folks wanted the NFR to be here in Texas and the PRCA, after toying with the idea (basically using this as a bargaining chip) stayed in Vegas. Don't you think those folks might take it upon themselves to build their own event to compete with the NFR? Just wait and see. I think it is quite possible. | |
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Holy Fruit Loops!
Posts: 1708
Location: Colorado | NJJ - 2014-03-09 8:55 AM Stitch4k9 - 2014-03-09 1:09 AM
Glad everyone enjoyed the American but I seriously doubt it will replace the PRCA or the NFR. Sponsors want as much bang for their buck as they can get. One Sunday in Dallas does not compare to 10 televised days, meetings, etc., in Vegas. And again its that tradition thing.
karen
This we will have to see......I don't think the American will ever put the PRCA and the NFR out of business but they sure may give them a run for their money (sponsors). When you p*ff off over 80+ of your top cowboys and cowgirls to the point that they want to start a new association, you have certainly shot yourself in the foot. I don't think any of them will "trust" the PRCA again. Additionally, I look for the American to expand and be more that a one day shot....maybe high $$ qualifiers or more money in the semi-finals, etc.....who knows......One thing for sure, it gave all cowboys and cowgirls a place to win some REAL money....
NJJ,
This isn't the first time the PRCA and contestants have been at odds. There were serious disscusions of a stike during the late 80's. And no internet / no cell phones to communicate with.
But, every rodeo from $300.00 added to Houston and Cheyenne had "meetings". And of course the Turtles were born from the same issues.
I have no issue with folks making more money. BUT, I am realistic enough to know that sponsor dollars are the all important factor.
karen
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Hollywood's Fan - 2014-03-09 11:17 AM NJJ - 2014-03-10 7:55 AM Stitch4k9 - 2014-03-09 1:09 AM
Glad everyone enjoyed the American but I seriously doubt it will replace the PRCA or the NFR. Sponsors want as much bang for their buck as they can get. One Sunday in Dallas does not compare to 10 televised days, meetings, etc., in Vegas. And again its that tradition thing.
karen
This we will have to see......I don't think the American will ever put the PRCA and the NFR out of business but they sure may give them a run for their money (sponsors). When you p*ff off over 80+ of your top cowboys and cowgirls to the point that they want to start a new association, you have certainly shot yourself in the foot. I don't think any of them will "trust" the PRCA again. Additionally, I look for the American to expand and be more that a one day shot....maybe high $$ qualifiers or more money in the semi-finals, etc.....who knows......One thing for sure, it gave all cowboys and cowgirls a place to win some REAL money....
I would love to see it too. I think variety and choices are good for the sport. I love the American qualification format. I would never ever in a million years make the NFR or even IFR, even with a SuperHorse freak of nature that could spank everyone's butt because Travel and I do not get along. I admire the grit of those who survive and flourish on the traditional rodeo road, but it's not something I aspire to myself and I know there are many out there who feel the same way. | |
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  Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Hollywood's Fan - 2014-03-09 11:17 AM NJJ - 2014-03-10 7:55 AM Stitch4k9 - 2014-03-09 1:09 AM
Glad everyone enjoyed the American but I seriously doubt it will replace the PRCA or the NFR. Sponsors want as much bang for their buck as they can get. One Sunday in Dallas does not compare to 10 televised days, meetings, etc., in Vegas. And again its that tradition thing.
karen
This we will have to see......I don't think the American will ever put the PRCA and the NFR out of business but they sure may give them a run for their money (sponsors). When you p*ff off over 80+ of your top cowboys and cowgirls to the point that they want to start a new association, you have certainly shot yourself in the foot. I don't think any of them will "trust" the PRCA again. Additionally, I look for the American to expand and be more that a one day shot....maybe high $$ qualifiers or more money in the semi-finals, etc.....who knows......One thing for sure, it gave all cowboys and cowgirls a place to win some REAL money....
Add to the mix that the PRCA crapped on RFD-TV for the TV rights of the NFR and then turned around and will PAY CBS Sports channel to broadcast it...... | |
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 Saint Stacey
| HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 6:24 PM SKM - 2014-03-08 5:08 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 3:30 PM Thanks for the spelling lesson, Norma. I always seem to misspell certain words, and I also frequently put the "e" before the "i", if I'm not careful.
I should re-phrase my remark.....it's not that they fear men, per se', rather, they recognize that more men competing will have a certain impact that will make things harder. For example, if my wife or daughter wanted to make a run for the NFR, allowing men to compete probably will have a negative impact on her chances. No mystery here. In other words, if people like Lance Graves, Brett Monroe, and Talmadge Green decided to make a run for the NFR, my guess is there's a good chance that a few of them would make it. If my daughter finished 16th or 17th at the end of the year, and two men made it.....well, there you go. It's pretty hard to deny that allowing men would increase the competition. Give me some examples of horses any of the above has trained that went on to be able to rodeo after they were futurited. I am genuinely curious how many of these men made horse you hear of after they turn the age of 7 that became successful rodeo horses. Or NFR caliber ones.
I have no doubt these men can make a horse. But an NFR caliber rodeo horse is a lot different than a big 4D jackpot horse.
I know for a fact that one of the men you named goes through literally 100 head to find maybe 3 that can be successful in the futurity pen.
Yes, Ryan Lovendale trained Stringray. But while Stringray is an awesome rodeo horse, I don't believe she did well in the futurites.
There are very few horses out there that do well in futurites that go on to be rodeo horses. They are simply fried.
Rodeos are not the same as futurites and big 4D's. So while many men do well as futurity trainers, I honestly don't see them as having competitve rodeo horses. Hence why I was asking how many horses have they done well on have you heard about after they turn 7?
You said women fear the competition, hence why they are against men in the WPRA. If you are a man that has clients that you train for with futurities in mind, are you going to be able to haul and make the NFR? Are they going to have an actual rodeo horse that can stand the hauling and trash ground? Probably not. So your statement is comparing apples to oranges. | |
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 Ms Bling Bling Sleeze Kitty
Posts: 20916
Location: LouLouVille, OK | I'm am curious to hear the explanation behind this I am quote from Hotbear "Would you rather be a "World Champion", but only amongst women, or a true world champion? Women can compete with men in barrel racing, can't they? I'd guess they would still dominate most likely." WTH is that? are you belittling the accomplishments of Charmayne, Kristie, Janet and Sherri because as far as the rodeo world is concerned they competed against just women? Those ladies right there are TRUE CHAMPIONS in every sense of the word
Edited by cindyt 2014-03-09 11:46 AM
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | cindyt - 2014-03-09 11:45 AM I'm am curious to hear the explanation behind this I am quote from Hotbear "Would you rather be a "World Champion", but only amongst women, or a true world champion? Women can compete with men in barrel racing, can't they? I'd guess they would still dominate most likely." WTH is that? are you belittling the accomplishments of Charmayne, Kristie, Janet and Sherri because as far as the rodeo world is concerned they competed against just women? Those ladies right there are TRUE CHAMPIONS in every sense of the word
Not at all. They were world champions at a time when men were forbidden. That's just a fact that can't be denied. You are trying to say I am belittling them, and I was just stating a fact. Men were not allowed to compete with them. So....to be accurate, those great women were World Champions in a women's sport. I went on to say that I think women would still dominate. If you want to accuse me of "belittling" those women, go ahead. Attacking me and accusing me of "belittling" women does nothing to strengthen your position on the subject, one way or another. If you are a world champion in a sport where people are barred from competition purely on the basis of gender, and for no other reason, then you are a world champion....for that gender. This is my personal opinion. You are still a world champion, but in my book, there is an asterisk.
How many of you have heard of Babe Ruth? How many have heard of Lou Gehrig or Ty Cobb? Of course, almost all of you. They are all-time great baseball players and are enshrined in the Hall of Fame. Many still consider Babe Ruth to be the greatest power hitter in baseball of all time. Certainly, before Hank Aaron came along, few would dispute this. How many of you have heard of Josh Gibson? Probably very few. Why? Because he was Black. He played in at a time when Blacks were forbidden to compete with Whites. One of the stated reasons back then was that this was a game that was invented by a white man, for white men, and that blacks didn't deserve to play with whites. Oh there were exhibition games between Negro league teams and white teams when those teams would travel across the country and barnstorm and play local independent white teams.....analagous to limiting men to jackpots and futurities in barrel racing, but banning them from the pros. Fortunately, Jackie Robinson changed all of that, and the rest is history. Unfortunately, we will never know if Josh Gibson was truly the greatest hitter to play the game, but many baseball historians make that claim. Some say Josh hit more home runs than Babe Ruth, but because of no records, we will never know. Some say he had the highest career batting average as well. Some who had the chance to see both Josh Gibson and Babe Ruth play called Babe Ruth the "White Josh Gibson". Because of unwritten laws that prohibited Blacks from playing major league baseball, many view all the records prior to 1947 with an asterisk.
That's where we are right now in barrel racing, but maybe the American will change all that.
I hate bigotry, prejudice, sexism, and racism. They all work both ways. Gender discrimination can work both ways, and I think this is an example. I'm actually amazed that on a site comprised of 99% women, only about 60% feel that the gender discrimination status quo should remain. This tells me that things will change, and both barrel racing and rodeo will be better for it.
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Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-09 2:00 PM I'm actually amazed that on a site comprised of 99% women, only about 60% feel that the gender discrimination status quo should remain. This tells me that things will change, and both barrel racing and rodeo will be better for it.
You most certainly have presented valid arguments....
However, to be accurate........On a site comprised of 99% women...only 60% (OF THOSE WHO ACTUALLY VOTED) feel that the status quo should remain.....At any given time approx. 2000 (more or less) are "online" so the mere 236 who voted comprise only 10% of the reading membership.....I would really be interested in a true poll.......
Edited by NJJ 2014-03-09 2:27 PM
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Ms Bling Bling Sleeze Kitty
Posts: 20916
Location: LouLouVille, OK | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-09 2:00 PM cindyt - 2014-03-09 11:45 AM I'm am curious to hear the explanation behind this I am quote from Hotbear "Would you rather be a "World Champion", but only amongst women, or a true world champion? Women can compete with men in barrel racing, can't they? I'd guess they would still dominate most likely." WTH is that? are you belittling the accomplishments of Charmayne, Kristie, Janet and Sherri because as far as the rodeo world is concerned they competed against just women? Those ladies right there are TRUE CHAMPIONS in every sense of the word Not at all. Â They were world champions at a time when men were forbidden. Â That's just a fact that can't be denied. Â You are trying to say I am belittling them, and I was just stating a fact. Â Men were not allowed to compete with them. Â So....to be accurate, those great women were World Champions in a women's sport. Â I went on to say that I think women would still dominate. Â If you want to accuse me of "belittling" those women, go ahead. Attacking me and accusing me of "belittling" women does nothing to strengthen your position on the subject, one way or another. Â If you are a world champion in a sport where people are barred from competition purely on the basis of gender, and for no other reason, then you are a world champion....for that gender. Â This is my personal opinion. Â You are still a world champion, but in my book, there is an asterisk. Â
How many of you have heard of Babe Ruth? Â How many have heard of Lou Gehrig or Ty Cobb? Â Of course, almost all of you. Â They are all-time great baseball players and are enshrined in the Hall of Fame. Â Many still consider Babe Ruth to be the greatest power hitter in baseball of all time. Â Certainly, before Hank Aaron came along, few would dispute this. How many of you have heard of Josh Gibson? Â Probably very few. Â Why? Â Because he was Black. Â He played in at a time when Blacks were forbidden to compete with Whites. Â One of the stated reasons back then was that this was a game that was invented by a white man, for white men, and that blacks didn't deserve to play with whites. Â Oh there were exhibition games between Negro league teams and white teams when those teams would travel across the country and barnstorm and play local independent white teams.....analagous to limiting men to jackpots and futurities in barrel racing, but banning them from the pros. Â Fortunately, Jackie Robinson changed all of that, and the rest is history. Â Unfortunately, we will never know if Josh Gibson was truly the greatest hitter to play the game, but many baseball historians make that claim. Â Some say Josh hit more home runs than Babe Ruth, but because of no records, we will never know. Â Some say he had the highest career batting average as well. Â Some who had the chance to see both Josh Gibson and Babe Ruth play called Babe Ruth the "White Josh Gibson". Â Because of unwritten laws that prohibited Blacks from playing major league baseball, many view all the records prior to 1947 with an asterisk.
That's where we are right now in barrel racing, but maybe the American will change all that. Â
I hate bigotry, prejudice, sexism, and racism. Â They all work both ways. Â Gender discrimination can work both ways, and I think this is an example. Â I'm actually amazed that on a site comprised of 99% women, only about 60% feel that the gender discrimination status quo should remain. Â This tells me that things will change, and both barrel racing and rodeo will be better for it. Â Â
Edited by cindyt 2014-03-09 2:35 PM
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | cindyt - 2014-03-09 2:32 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-09 2:00 PM cindyt - 2014-03-09 11:45 AM I'm am curious to hear the explanation behind this I am quote from Hotbear "Would you rather be a "World Champion", but only amongst women, or a true world champion? Women can compete with men in barrel racing, can't they? I'd guess they would still dominate most likely." WTH is that? are you belittling the accomplishments of Charmayne, Kristie, Janet and Sherri because as far as the rodeo world is concerned they competed against just women? Those ladies right there are TRUE CHAMPIONS in every sense of the word Not at all. They were world champions at a time when men were forbidden. That's just a fact that can't be denied. You are trying to say I am belittling them, and I was just stating a fact. Men were not allowed to compete with them. So....to be accurate, those great women were World Champions in a women's sport. I went on to say that I think women would still dominate. If you want to accuse me of "belittling" those women, go ahead. Attacking me and accusing me of "belittling" women does nothing to strengthen your position on the subject, one way or another. If you are a world champion in a sport where people are barred from competition purely on the basis of gender, and for no other reason, then you are a world champion....for that gender. This is my personal opinion. You are still a world champion, but in my book, there is an asterisk.
How many of you have heard of Babe Ruth? How many have heard of Lou Gehrig or Ty Cobb? Of course, almost all of you. They are all-time great baseball players and are enshrined in the Hall of Fame. Many still consider Babe Ruth to be the greatest power hitter in baseball of all time. Certainly, before Hank Aaron came along, few would dispute this. How many of you have heard of Josh Gibson? Probably very few. Why? Because he was Black. He played in at a time when Blacks were forbidden to compete with Whites. One of the stated reasons back then was that this was a game that was invented by a white man, for white men, and that blacks didn't deserve to play with whites. Oh there were exhibition games between Negro league teams and white teams when those teams would travel across the country and barnstorm and play local independent white teams.....analagous to limiting men to jackpots and futurities in barrel racing, but banning them from the pros. Fortunately, Jackie Robinson changed all of that, and the rest is history. Unfortunately, we will never know if Josh Gibson was truly the greatest hitter to play the game, but many baseball historians make that claim. Some say Josh hit more home runs than Babe Ruth, but because of no records, we will never know. Some say he had the highest career batting average as well. Some who had the chance to see both Josh Gibson and Babe Ruth play called Babe Ruth the "White Josh Gibson". Because of unwritten laws that prohibited Blacks from playing major league baseball, many view all the records prior to 1947 with an asterisk.
That's where we are right now in barrel racing, but maybe the American will change all that.
I hate bigotry, prejudice, sexism, and racism. They all work both ways. Gender discrimination can work both ways, and I think this is an example. I'm actually amazed that on a site comprised of 99% women, only about 60% feel that the gender discrimination status quo should remain. This tells me that things will change, and both barrel racing and rodeo will be better for it.
That's classy. | |
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Forever Young
Posts: 6768
Location: relocated to Texas | SKM - 2014-03-10 10:32 AM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 6:24 PM SKM - 2014-03-08 5:08 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-08 3:30 PM Thanks for the spelling lesson, Norma. I always seem to misspell certain words, and I also frequently put the "e" before the "i", if I'm not careful.
I should re-phrase my remark.....it's not that they fear men, per se', rather, they recognize that more men competing will have a certain impact that will make things harder. For example, if my wife or daughter wanted to make a run for the NFR, allowing men to compete probably will have a negative impact on her chances. No mystery here. In other words, if people like Lance Graves, Brett Monroe, and Talmadge Green decided to make a run for the NFR, my guess is there's a good chance that a few of them would make it. If my daughter finished 16th or 17th at the end of the year, and two men made it.....well, there you go. It's pretty hard to deny that allowing men would increase the competition. Give me some examples of horses any of the above has trained that went on to be able to rodeo after they were futurited. I am genuinely curious how many of these men made horse you hear of after they turn the age of 7 that became successful rodeo horses. Or NFR caliber ones.
I have no doubt these men can make a horse. But an NFR caliber rodeo horse is a lot different than a big 4D jackpot horse.
I know for a fact that one of the men you named goes through literally 100 head to find maybe 3 that can be successful in the futurity pen.
There are very few horses out there that do well in futurites that go on to be rodeo horses. They are simply fried.
Rodeos are not the same as futurites and big 4D's. So while many men do well as futurity trainers, I honestly don't see them as having competitve rodeo horses. Hence why I was asking how many horses have they done well on have you heard about after they turn 7?
You said women fear the competition, hence why they are against men in the WPRA. If you are a man that has clients that you train for with futurities in mind, are you going to be able to haul and make the NFR? Are they going to have an actual rodeo horse that can stand the hauling and trash ground? Probably not. So your statement is comparing apples to oranges.
Stacey, while I agree with some of what you are saying, it seems to me that you are placing all men barrel racers under the label "futurity rider". The men who are "professional" and the most successful in our sport, currently do mainly compete in futurities, because that is where the money is. If big money rodeo events which had previously been closed to them (like the NFR) were to open up to them, that may change. If I am not mistaken Clint Sherlin, the only man to make the finals at the American, does train and run futurity horses as well.
It is true that a good futurity horse and a good rodeo horse are often two different types of animals (although some horses like Stingray or LR Designerwood owned by Blake and Tracy Monroe who ran futurites have proven otherwise). But, if men were to set their sights on competing in rodeos, then they may start training their horses accordingly too. This would just make sense. Currently, a lot of futurity horses have been used very hard as youngsters and they don't have the mind or body left to compete on the rodeo trail. But the men may save their good ones for rodeo if they can make good money doing so. They are going to put their focus where the money is, simple as that. | |
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| HotbearLVR - 2014-03-09 2:55 PM
cindyt - 2014-03-09 2:32 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-09 2:00 PM cindyt - 2014-03-09 11:45 AM I'm am curious to hear the explanation behind this I am quote from Hotbear "Would you rather be a "World Champion", but only amongst women, or a true world champion? Women can compete with men in barrel racing, can't they? I'd guess they would still dominate most likely." WTH is that? are you belittling the accomplishments of Charmayne, Kristie, Janet and Sherri because as far as the rodeo world is concerned they competed against just women? Those ladies right there are TRUE CHAMPIONS in every sense of the word Not at all. Â They were world champions at a time when men were forbidden. Â That's just a fact that can't be denied. Â You are trying to say I am belittling them, and I was just stating a fact. Â Men were not allowed to compete with them. Â So....to be accurate, those great women were World Champions in a women's sport. Â I went on to say that I think women would still dominate. Â If you want to accuse me of "belittling" those women, go ahead. Attacking me and accusing me of "belittling" women does nothing to strengthen your position on the subject, one way or another. Â If you are a world champion in a sport where people are barred from competition purely on the basis of gender, and for no other reason, then you are a world champion....for that gender. Â This is my personal opinion. Â You are still a world champion, but in my book, there is an asterisk. Â
How many of you have heard of Babe Ruth? Â How many have heard of Lou Gehrig or Ty Cobb? Â Of course, almost all of you. Â They are all-time great baseball players and are enshrined in the Hall of Fame. Â Many still consider Babe Ruth to be the greatest power hitter in baseball of all time. Â Certainly, before Hank Aaron came along, few would dispute this. How many of you have heard of Josh Gibson? Â Probably very few. Â Why? Â Because he was Black. Â He played in at a time when Blacks were forbidden to compete with Whites. Â One of the stated reasons back then was that this was a game that was invented by a white man, for white men, and that blacks didn't deserve to play with whites. Â Oh there were exhibition games between Negro league teams and white teams when those teams would travel across the country and barnstorm and play local independent white teams.....analagous to limiting men to jackpots and futurities in barrel racing, but banning them from the pros. Â Fortunately, Jackie Robinson changed all of that, and the rest is history. Â Unfortunately, we will never know if Josh Gibson was truly the greatest hitter to play the game, but many baseball historians make that claim. Â Some say Josh hit more home runs than Babe Ruth, but because of no records, we will never know. Â Some say he had the highest career batting average as well. Â Some who had the chance to see both Josh Gibson and Babe Ruth play called Babe Ruth the "White Josh Gibson". Â Because of unwritten laws that prohibited Blacks from playing major league baseball, many view all the records prior to 1947 with an asterisk.
That's where we are right now in barrel racing, but maybe the American will change all that. Â
I hate bigotry, prejudice, sexism, and racism. Â They all work both ways. Â Gender discrimination can work both ways, and I think this is an example. Â I'm actually amazed that on a site comprised of 99% women, only about 60% feel that the gender discrimination status quo should remain. Â This tells me that things will change, and both barrel racing and rodeo will be better for it. Â
Â
Sounds like she just threw her sucker in the dirt Doc. LOL | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | NJJ - 2014-03-09 2:26 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-09 2:00 PM I'm actually amazed that on a site comprised of 99% women, only about 60% feel that the gender discrimination status quo should remain. This tells me that things will change, and both barrel racing and rodeo will be better for it.
You most certainly have presented valid arguments....
However, to be accurate........On a site comprised of 99% women...only 60% (OF THOSE WHO ACTUALLY VOTED) feel that the status quo should remain.....At any given time approx. 2000 (more or less) are "online" so the mere 236 who voted comprise only 10% of the reading membership.....I would really be interested in a true poll.......
Oh, I agree. Obviously, it's not a poll in the scientific sense. I still am very surprised. I would expect more like a 90-10 split if there was an actual scientific poll, at best. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | jbhoot - 2014-03-09 2:58 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-09 2:55 PM cindyt - 2014-03-09 2:32 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-09 2:00 PM cindyt - 2014-03-09 11:45 AM I'm am curious to hear the explanation behind this I am quote from Hotbear "Would you rather be a "World Champion", but only amongst women, or a true world champion? Women can compete with men in barrel racing, can't they? I'd guess they would still dominate most likely." WTH is that? are you belittling the accomplishments of Charmayne, Kristie, Janet and Sherri because as far as the rodeo world is concerned they competed against just women? Those ladies right there are TRUE CHAMPIONS in every sense of the word Not at all. They were world champions at a time when men were forbidden. That's just a fact that can't be denied. You are trying to say I am belittling them, and I was just stating a fact. Men were not allowed to compete with them. So....to be accurate, those great women were World Champions in a women's sport. I went on to say that I think women would still dominate. If you want to accuse me of "belittling" those women, go ahead. Attacking me and accusing me of "belittling" women does nothing to strengthen your position on the subject, one way or another. If you are a world champion in a sport where people are barred from competition purely on the basis of gender, and for no other reason, then you are a world champion....for that gender. This is my personal opinion. You are still a world champion, but in my book, there is an asterisk.
How many of you have heard of Babe Ruth? How many have heard of Lou Gehrig or Ty Cobb? Of course, almost all of you. They are all-time great baseball players and are enshrined in the Hall of Fame. Many still consider Babe Ruth to be the greatest power hitter in baseball of all time. Certainly, before Hank Aaron came along, few would dispute this. How many of you have heard of Josh Gibson? Probably very few. Why? Because he was Black. He played in at a time when Blacks were forbidden to compete with Whites. One of the stated reasons back then was that this was a game that was invented by a white man, for white men, and that blacks didn't deserve to play with whites. Oh there were exhibition games between Negro league teams and white teams when those teams would travel across the country and barnstorm and play local independent white teams.....analagous to limiting men to jackpots and futurities in barrel racing, but banning them from the pros. Fortunately, Jackie Robinson changed all of that, and the rest is history. Unfortunately, we will never know if Josh Gibson was truly the greatest hitter to play the game, but many baseball historians make that claim. Some say Josh hit more home runs than Babe Ruth, but because of no records, we will never know. Some say he had the highest career batting average as well. Some who had the chance to see both Josh Gibson and Babe Ruth play called Babe Ruth the "White Josh Gibson". Because of unwritten laws that prohibited Blacks from playing major league baseball, many view all the records prior to 1947 with an asterisk.
That's where we are right now in barrel racing, but maybe the American will change all that.
I hate bigotry, prejudice, sexism, and racism. They all work both ways. Gender discrimination can work both ways, and I think this is an example. I'm actually amazed that on a site comprised of 99% women, only about 60% feel that the gender discrimination status quo should remain. This tells me that things will change, and both barrel racing and rodeo will be better for it.
Sounds like she just threw her sucker in the dirt Doc. LOL
I know, buddy. I feel like a goldfish in a pirhana tank on this subject. You are the other goldfish! LOL. This subject touches a raw nerve with many. Everyone knows why.....it's just that if you just come out and say it you are widely reviled. Cindy was just brave enough to come out and express that. She showed how she really feels. | |
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Forever Young
Posts: 6768
Location: relocated to Texas | NJJ - 2014-03-10 10:28 AM Hollywood's Fan - 2014-03-09 11:17 AM NJJ - 2014-03-10 7:55 AM Stitch4k9 - 2014-03-09 1:09 AM
Glad everyone enjoyed the American but I seriously doubt it will replace the PRCA or the NFR. Sponsors want as much bang for their buck as they can get. One Sunday in Dallas does not compare to 10 televised days, meetings, etc., in Vegas. And again its that tradition thing.
karen
This we will have to see......I don't think the American will ever put the PRCA and the NFR out of business but they sure may give them a run for their money (sponsors). When you p*ff off over 80+ of your top cowboys and cowgirls to the point that they want to start a new association, you have certainly shot yourself in the foot. I don't think any of them will "trust" the PRCA again. Additionally, I look for the American to expand and be more that a one day shot....maybe high $$ qualifiers or more money in the semi-finals, etc.....who knows......One thing for sure, it gave all cowboys and cowgirls a place to win some REAL money....
Frankly Norma, I think the PRCA crapped on some folks that just might not take it lightly. I think they may have spawned competition for themselves, which would be a good thing for rodeo, maybe not so good for the PRCA, only time will tell. IMO, the American was a test to see how something new might be received. Again, time will tell, but RFD TV seems like the natural venue to showcase the sport of rodeo. I sure liked the coverage of the events of the American better than the sometimes half assed coverage of the NFR. Next year, I would attend the American live before I would the NFR. I think the crowd there was electric and everyone I know that did attend said the same thing. | |
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Forever Young
Posts: 6768
Location: relocated to Texas | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-10 1:55 PM cindyt - 2014-03-09 2:32 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-09 2:00 PM cindyt - 2014-03-09 11:45 AM I'm am curious to hear the explanation behind this I am quote from Hotbear "Would you rather be a "World Champion", but only amongst women, or a true world champion? Women can compete with men in barrel racing, can't they? I'd guess they would still dominate most likely." WTH is that? are you belittling the accomplishments of Charmayne, Kristie, Janet and Sherri because as far as the rodeo world is concerned they competed against just women? Those ladies right there are TRUE CHAMPIONS in every sense of the word Not at all. They were world champions at a time when men were forbidden. That's just a fact that can't be denied. You are trying to say I am belittling them, and I was just stating a fact. Men were not allowed to compete with them. So....to be accurate, those great women were World Champions in a women's sport. I went on to say that I think women would still dominate. If you want to accuse me of "belittling" those women, go ahead. Attacking me and accusing me of "belittling" women does nothing to strengthen your position on the subject, one way or another. If you are a world champion in a sport where people are barred from competition purely on the basis of gender, and for no other reason, then you are a world champion....for that gender. This is my personal opinion. You are still a world champion, but in my book, there is an asterisk.
How many of you have heard of Babe Ruth? How many have heard of Lou Gehrig or Ty Cobb? Of course, almost all of you. They are all-time great baseball players and are enshrined in the Hall of Fame. Many still consider Babe Ruth to be the greatest power hitter in baseball of all time. Certainly, before Hank Aaron came along, few would dispute this. How many of you have heard of Josh Gibson? Probably very few. Why? Because he was Black. He played in at a time when Blacks were forbidden to compete with Whites. One of the stated reasons back then was that this was a game that was invented by a white man, for white men, and that blacks didn't deserve to play with whites. Oh there were exhibition games between Negro league teams and white teams when those teams would travel across the country and barnstorm and play local independent white teams.....analagous to limiting men to jackpots and futurities in barrel racing, but banning them from the pros. Fortunately, Jackie Robinson changed all of that, and the rest is history. Unfortunately, we will never know if Josh Gibson was truly the greatest hitter to play the game, but many baseball historians make that claim. Some say Josh hit more home runs than Babe Ruth, but because of no records, we will never know. Some say he had the highest career batting average as well. Some who had the chance to see both Josh Gibson and Babe Ruth play called Babe Ruth the "White Josh Gibson". Because of unwritten laws that prohibited Blacks from playing major league baseball, many view all the records prior to 1947 with an asterisk.
That's where we are right now in barrel racing, but maybe the American will change all that.
I hate bigotry, prejudice, sexism, and racism. They all work both ways. Gender discrimination can work both ways, and I think this is an example. I'm actually amazed that on a site comprised of 99% women, only about 60% feel that the gender discrimination status quo should remain. This tells me that things will change, and both barrel racing and rodeo will be better for it.
Cindy, I think he is going into elaborate explanations (examples) because the simple version doesn't seem to be getting through to some folks. No need for personal attacks though.
I have read some of the arguments from women on here and am embarrassed for them at how ridiculous they sound. "Women don't fear the competition of men." Of course some of them do. The truth is, if these women were not afraid that men would be good competition and might take some of the money at rodeo's, they they wouldn't care if they entered or not. An entry that doesn't win anything is just another donation to the pot. So, if a person feels they have a good chance at getting a piece of the pot, why wouldn't you want it bigger? But, if you feel the competion might take that pot, well...that is the fear.
If a person thinks the NFR should exclude men, you are entitled to that opinion and I wouldn't even argue it. I do find it odd though, that the PRCA states in its rules that it is not gender biased and then they contract with the WPRA who is gender biased. Seems like a contradiction to me.
Some women may welcome the men as competitors and some may not. I do think that with the introduction of the American, there may be some changes on the horizon in rodeo, period. Including men may likely be one of them. | |
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Ms Bling Bling Sleeze Kitty
Posts: 20916
Location: LouLouVille, OK | Hollywood's Fan - 2014-03-09 3:21 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-10 1:55 PM cindyt - 2014-03-09 2:32 PM HotbearLVR - 2014-03-09 2:00 PM cindyt - 2014-03-09 11:45 AM I'm am curious to hear the explanation behind this I am quote from Hotbear "Would you rather be a "World Champion", but only amongst women, or a true world champion? Women can compete with men in barrel racing, can't they? I'd guess they would still dominate most likely." WTH is that? are you belittling the accomplishments of Charmayne, Kristie, Janet and Sherri because as far as the rodeo world is concerned they competed against just women? Those ladies right there are TRUE CHAMPIONS in every sense of the word Not at all. They were world champions at a time when men were forbidden. That's just a fact that can't be denied. You are trying to say I am belittling them, and I was just stating a fact. Men were not allowed to compete with them. So....to be accurate, those great women were World Champions in a women's sport. I went on to say that I think women would still dominate. If you want to accuse me of "belittling" those women, go ahead. Attacking me and accusing me of "belittling" women does nothing to strengthen your position on the subject, one way or another. If you are a world champion in a sport where people are barred from competition purely on the basis of gender, and for no other reason, then you are a world champion....for that gender. This is my personal opinion. You are still a world champion, but in my book, there is an asterisk.
How many of you have heard of Babe Ruth? How many have heard of Lou Gehrig or Ty Cobb? Of course, almost all of you. They are all-time great baseball players and are enshrined in the Hall of Fame. Many still consider Babe Ruth to be the greatest power hitter in baseball of all time. Certainly, before Hank Aaron came along, few would dispute this. How many of you have heard of Josh Gibson? Probably very few. Why? Because he was Black. He played in at a time when Blacks were forbidden to compete with Whites. One of the stated reasons back then was that this was a game that was invented by a white man, for white men, and that blacks didn't deserve to play with whites. Oh there were exhibition games between Negro league teams and white teams when those teams would travel across the country and barnstorm and play local independent white teams.....analagous to limiting men to jackpots and futurities in barrel racing, but banning them from the pros. Fortunately, Jackie Robinson changed all of that, and the rest is history. Unfortunately, we will never know if Josh Gibson was truly the greatest hitter to play the game, but many baseball historians make that claim. Some say Josh hit more home runs than Babe Ruth, but because of no records, we will never know. Some say he had the highest career batting average as well. Some who had the chance to see both Josh Gibson and Babe Ruth play called Babe Ruth the "White Josh Gibson". Because of unwritten laws that prohibited Blacks from playing major league baseball, many view all the records prior to 1947 with an asterisk.
That's where we are right now in barrel racing, but maybe the American will change all that.
I hate bigotry, prejudice, sexism, and racism. They all work both ways. Gender discrimination can work both ways, and I think this is an example. I'm actually amazed that on a site comprised of 99% women, only about 60% feel that the gender discrimination status quo should remain. This tells me that things will change, and both barrel racing and rodeo will be better for it.
I have read some of the arguments from women on here and am embarrassed for them at how ridiculous they sound. "Women don't fear the competition of men." Of course some of them do. The truth is, if these women were not afraid that men would be good competition and might take some of the money at rodeo's, they they wouldn't care if they entered or not. An entry that doesn't win anything is just another donation to the pot. So, if a person feels they have a good chance at getting a piece of the pot, why wouldn't you want it bigger? But, if you feel the competion might take that pot, well...that is the fear.
If a person thinks the NFR should exclude men, you are entitled to that opinion and I wouldn't even argue it. I do find it odd though, that the PRCA states in its rules that it is not gender biased and then they contract with the WPRA who is gender biased. Seems like a contradiction to me.
Some women may welcome the men as competitors and some may not. I do think that with the introduction of the American, there may be some changes on the horizon in rodeo, period. Including men may likely be one of them.
Funny how you ask a question and get accused of attacking someone...lol
the whole thing makes me laugh
My sucker isn't in the dirt, but Im not going to get into a pi$$in contest over my opinions with anyone, we all have one and we are entitled to them
Edited by cindyt 2014-03-09 4:21 PM
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | I don't equate not wanting to share something to a fear response. I don't share my chocolate either cause I'm a greedy biatch.  | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-09 5:04 PM I don't equate not wanting to share something to a fear response. I don't share my chocolate either cause I'm a greedy biatch.
I know it was meant to be funny, but it was also meant to be a message.
Think about that statement.....the one you just made. | |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-09 5:18 PM
Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-09 5:04 PM Â I don't equate not wanting to share something to a fear response. I don't share my chocolate either cause I'm a greedy biatch.Â
Think about that statement.....the one you just made. Â
Oh, I know exactly the message hidden in the humor there. It wasn't an accident. 
Edited by Three 4 Luck 2014-03-09 5:25 PM
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