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 "Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
  
Location: Iowa, LA | Hi Everyone!
I'm participating in a study to help identify the gene responsible for PSSM Type 2. If you, or anyone you know can help, please contact Paul Szauter at [email protected] |
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boon
Posts: 4
| My mares brother has tested and has 2 copies of the gene so from what I have been told would pass it 100 percent of the time, I have long suspected something is wrong with my mare who has had countless vet visits. She had had test just awaiting results. One question that's bugging me is does pssm type 1 get worse we with age. |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | ukbarrels - 2015-07-27 7:31 PM
My mares brother has tested and has 2 copies of the gene so from what I have been told would pass it 100 percent of the time, I have long suspected something is wrong with my mare who has had countless vet visits. She had had test just awaiting results. One question that's bugging me is does pssm type 1 get worse we with age.
I've only got horses with Type 2, but they haven't gotten worse with age. There is a great PSSM forum on Facebook that would be a good place to ask questions on Type 1. |
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 Quarter Horse HIstorian
Posts: 2878
 
Location: Aubrey, Texas | If you trace the positive horses back far enough, the majority of them go back to Mittie Stephens, b. 1869. I wish I had known about this forty years ago!!! Thank you, Annemarea, for working so hard to get this information out there. I wonder if there is a human counterpart to this disorder?
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 Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | I have a two ID bartender/mr baron red mare that seems to be showing some symptoms. She's very sore, both studs descriptions say Pssm 1 n/n
I heard the gene is strong in the two id bartender?
I'm thinking about changing her diet to see if she improves and getting her tested, she has never tied up but she's sore and parks out after riding, I'm hoping I find the cause ASAP |
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Member
Posts: 16
| Mr. Baron Red isn't suspect. I'm not sure about Two ID Bartender. Two Eyed Red Buck by Mr. Baron Red is N/P1 but he gets the gene from his mother, Ima Tyree, who goes back to Yellow Jacket whom researchers are saying carried the gene. I would look way back on your horses papers to see if there is any YJ. Most foundation QHs have YJ somewhere. My recommendation is to pull hair and send it to Animal Genetics or AQHA. That way you will know for sure. Good luck. Many horses with PSSM are excellent athletes but it is a very stressful disease to deal with, regardless. |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | Just wanting to update everyone! PSSM Type 2 is genetic, the gene has been identified, AND it is a DOMINANT gene. |
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boon
Posts: 1
| Firstly thankyou to the person who started this post and to all who have contributed.
I have been suffering so many problems with my horse for years and no vet has ever been able to make a diagnosis. I have sent off my horses 5 panel test but waiting for the results is driving me crazy.
My horse was lovely when she first arrived with me as a youngster, we started backing her and she was doing brilliantly to start with, but after a week of groundwork she started moving in a odd fashion. Nobody could put their finger on where the odd movement was stemming from but they all agreed she moved strangely.
As time went on she just kept getting odd lameness issues, the vet did so many tests and x rays and came back with a navicular diagnosis. Not the news i wanted for a 3 year old. When i turned her out 24/7 and stopped working her she retuned to normal, so we started again. My vet explained that there were no changes to the navicular area but sometimes it was a term used for unexplained front lameness.
Each year my horses symptoms get worse. She still has lame days and sometimes weeks, her lameness can arrive and ease in a single day other times the lameness builds gradually and eases gradually.
A chiropractor worked with my mare for several months and didnt ever come to any conclusions as to what is wrong with her.
She detests being groomed, saddled up or doing any work at all really. She moves stiffly behind the only way i can describe it is that her hole hind end sometimes moves as one unit, almost like there are no joints past her hips (if that makes any sense) She also occasionally feels like her hind is dropping out from underneath her but this only happens during ridden work.
Another problem she has is falling in the field, i have literally never met a horse that can almost always fall over if she plays in the feild her hind end just slips away.
Her weight seems to vary, sometimes she is a easy keeper and other times she can become quite ribby. I have noticed she does it the opposite way to most horses, in winter she is a good weight and during summer her weight drops despite her feeding and exercise program not changing.
Her temperament changes im guessing this changes depending on how she feels. When she was younger she was literally bomb proof, everybody commented on how she was not frightened of anything now she can spook and become quite dangerous. Riding her sometime she is so slow and getting the smallest amount of work from her is hard, other times i get on and she is agitated, spooky and forward going.
After a few weeks of reading about pssm i am convinced she will be possitive for 1 or 2. If she does come back possitive i will be pleased to have found a cause for her having so many problems and angry too. We have been following the diet since finding out about pssm, we have no real changes yet but im hoping this will come with time.
I hope your post reaches as many people as possible, it could help so many horses and owners who are at their wits end.
Edited by swest 2016-05-20 10:40 AM
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 Ima Cool Kid
Posts: 3496
Location: TN | This has been a good read, learned a lot. I Pray there is a way to controle future generations and spare this painful condition for our horses. Our stallion is negitive on his 5 pannel test. I resented having to do this( spend$$$) but have realized how important it is to breed responsible. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 415
| swest - 2016-05-20 10:32 AM Firstly thankyou to the person who started this post and to all who have contributed. I have been suffering so many problems with my horse for years and no vet has ever been able to make a diagnosis. I have sent off my horses 5 panel test but waiting for the results is driving me crazy. My horse was lovely when she first arrived with me as a youngster, we started backing her and she was doing brilliantly to start with, but after a week of groundwork she started moving in a odd fashion. Nobody could put their finger on where the odd movement was stemming from but they all agreed she moved strangely. As time went on she just kept getting odd lameness issues, the vet did so many tests and x rays and came back with a navicular diagnosis. Not the news i wanted for a 3 year old. When i turned her out 24/7 and stopped working her she retuned to normal, so we started again. My vet explained that there were no changes to the navicular area but sometimes it was a term used for unexplained front lameness. Each year my horses symptoms get worse. She still has lame days and sometimes weeks, her lameness can arrive and ease in a single day other times the lameness builds gradually and eases gradually. A chiropractor worked with my mare for several months and didnt ever come to any conclusions as to what is wrong with her. She detests being groomed, saddled up or doing any work at all really. She moves stiffly behind the only way i can describe it is that her hole hind end sometimes moves as one unit, almost like there are no joints past her hips (if that makes any sense) She also occasionally feels like her hind is dropping out from underneath her but this only happens during ridden work. Another problem she has is falling in the field, i have literally never met a horse that can almost always fall over if she plays in the feild her hind end just slips away. Her weight seems to vary, sometimes she is a easy keeper and other times she can become quite ribby. I have noticed she does it the opposite way to most horses, in winter she is a good weight and during summer her weight drops despite her feeding and exercise program not changing. Her temperament changes im guessing this changes depending on how she feels. When she was younger she was literally bomb proof, everybody commented on how she was not frightened of anything now she can spook and become quite dangerous. Riding her sometime she is so slow and getting the smallest amount of work from her is hard, other times i get on and she is agitated, spooky and forward going. After a few weeks of reading about pssm i am convinced she will be possitive for 1 or 2. If she does come back possitive i will be pleased to have found a cause for her having so many problems and angry too. We have been following the diet since finding out about pssm, we have no real changes yet but im hoping this will come with time. I hope your post reaches as many people as possible, it could help so many horses and owners who are at their wits end.
That is almost the SAME story as my mare and this exact thread is actually the one that saved her life!! She tested neg for type 1 and positive for type 2 thru Paul's study. the hair test will be out soon but in the mean time you can up the protein in your horses diet if you suspect type 2 (which I would because your horses symptoms are the same as mine!) and NSC doesn't matter for the type 2 horses since it is not a glycogen storing issue. |
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | Could you elaborate on the diet for type 2 horses? Where can you find out more info on PSSM type 2? |
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 Did I miss the party?
Posts: 3864
| cheeka77 - 2016-05-25 9:38 PM swest - 2016-05-20 10:32 AM Firstly thankyou to the person who started this post and to all who have contributed. I have been suffering so many problems with my horse for years and no vet has ever been able to make a diagnosis. I have sent off my horses 5 panel test but waiting for the results is driving me crazy. My horse was lovely when she first arrived with me as a youngster, we started backing her and she was doing brilliantly to start with, but after a week of groundwork she started moving in a odd fashion. Nobody could put their finger on where the odd movement was stemming from but they all agreed she moved strangely. As time went on she just kept getting odd lameness issues, the vet did so many tests and x rays and came back with a navicular diagnosis. Not the news i wanted for a 3 year old. When i turned her out 24/7 and stopped working her she retuned to normal, so we started again. My vet explained that there were no changes to the navicular area but sometimes it was a term used for unexplained front lameness. Each year my horses symptoms get worse. She still has lame days and sometimes weeks, her lameness can arrive and ease in a single day other times the lameness builds gradually and eases gradually. A chiropractor worked with my mare for several months and didnt ever come to any conclusions as to what is wrong with her. She detests being groomed, saddled up or doing any work at all really. She moves stiffly behind the only way i can describe it is that her hole hind end sometimes moves as one unit, almost like there are no joints past her hips (if that makes any sense) She also occasionally feels like her hind is dropping out from underneath her but this only happens during ridden work. Another problem she has is falling in the field, i have literally never met a horse that can almost always fall over if she plays in the feild her hind end just slips away. Her weight seems to vary, sometimes she is a easy keeper and other times she can become quite ribby. I have noticed she does it the opposite way to most horses, in winter she is a good weight and during summer her weight drops despite her feeding and exercise program not changing. Her temperament changes im guessing this changes depending on how she feels. When she was younger she was literally bomb proof, everybody commented on how she was not frightened of anything now she can spook and become quite dangerous. Riding her sometime she is so slow and getting the smallest amount of work from her is hard, other times i get on and she is agitated, spooky and forward going. After a few weeks of reading about pssm i am convinced she will be possitive for 1 or 2. If she does come back possitive i will be pleased to have found a cause for her having so many problems and angry too. We have been following the diet since finding out about pssm, we have no real changes yet but im hoping this will come with time. I hope your post reaches as many people as possible, it could help so many horses and owners who are at their wits end. That is almost the SAME story as my mare and this exact thread is actually the one that saved her life!! She tested neg for type 1 and positive for type 2 thru Paul's study. the hair test will be out soon but in the mean time you can up the protein in your horses diet if you suspect type 2 (which I would because your horses symptoms are the same as mine!) and NSC doesn't matter for the type 2 horses since it is not a glycogen storing issue.  ...... Maybe I'm just stubborn (ok, I'm stubborn for sure) but, I've seen too many positive changes from lowering NSC levels on some of these horses. I'm sure there is a reason for that that someone much more saavy can explain. But, I understand that higher protein levels are definitely necessary for these guys. 
Edited by barrelracinbroke 2016-05-26 12:45 AM
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Did I miss the party?
Posts: 3864
| Barnmom - 2016-05-25 9:42 PM Could you elaborate on the diet for type 2 horses? Where can you find out more info on PSSM type 2?
Yahoo forum, facebook forum.....
There's a company (Equi-Sec) who believes they've found the genetic mutation for type 2 and that high protein is a major key to management.
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 Dog Resuce Agent
Posts: 3459
Location: southeast Texas | My horse tested negative to PSSM 1, still reacted badly to sugars. Have him on a high protien high fat diet. He is a much more consistent horse. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 415
| Because PSSM 2 is not a glycogen storing issue like type 1 (this is a reason they are wanting to change the name because the accronym PSSM doesn't fit these horses) carbohydrates should not matter so watching NSC as strictly as type 1 horses is not important. I will say that when I took my mare (N/P2) off oats she got a LOT better so I do watch her sugars but scientfically, it shouldn't matter. My mare is on full turnout and hasn't gotten any worse becasue the protein in the grass is better for her. The FB page has GREAT info and helpful people on there that can explain the diet better, high protein (not fat) is now the recommended diet for type 2 horses. I will also add that my mare is EXTREMELY well bred to be a race/barrel horse and she is positive for type 2 and a few common lines are carriers. The hair test will be out soon!! |
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Did I miss the party?
Posts: 3864
| cheeka77 - 2016-05-26 10:20 AM
Because PSSM 2 is not a glycogen storing issue like type 1 (this is a reason they are wanting to change the name because the accronym PSSM doesn't fit these horses) carbohydrates should not matter so watching NSC as strictly as type 1 horses is not important. I will say that when I took my mare (N/P2) off oats she got a LOT better so I do watch her sugars but scientfically, it shouldn't matter. My mare is on full turnout and hasn't gotten any worse becasue the protein in the grass is better for her. The FB page has GREAT info and helpful people on there that can explain the diet better, high protein (not fat) is now the recommended diet for type 2 horses. I will also add that my mare is EXTREMELY well bred to be a race/barrel horse and she is positive for type 2 and a few common lines are carriers. The hair test will be out soon!!
That's why I said I know what they're saying about NSC on type 2 not mattering but, in my experience (with type 2 as well) NSC has made a huge difference. And yes, some blood lines will be surprising because there's a lot. |
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 To the Left
Posts: 1865
Location: Florida | How far has the identifying of the mutation source been identified? I know it took only a few years to trace back to Impressive's mutation, how is this progressing?
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Did I miss the party?
Posts: 3864
| Vickie - 2016-05-26 4:52 PM How far has the identifying of the mutation source been identified? I know it took only a few years to trace back to Impressive's mutation, how is this progressing?
The gene has been identified per Equi-Sec and from what they're saying, a DNA test via hair sample will be available within a couple of months. But, I can't imagine the amount of red tape to get through to make that happen with varying entities. With that, I hope their expectation is correct. |
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Did I miss the party?
Posts: 3864
| Here is the link to EquiSec's info:
http://equiseq.com/learning_center/health/polysaccharide-storage-myopathy-pssm
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 788
| Wow, I have a mare that fits some of the symptoms and I never thought anything of it. Just rode the heck out of her and she was fine. But her diet will definately change and we will see if that helps. |
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