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 Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
  
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | cruise - 2016-02-01 10:43 AM I missed what appears to be a person shooting and them turning and running on all of the other videos - but this one points out what appears to be just that. I had seen it discussed - but I always had my eye on the person on the right standing in the road with gun drawn. Never noticed what appears to be the first shot. I don't know how long or if additional information will be released. But it will be very interesting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mttvMrbFX0o#t=112
Jeez...sure seems like it... |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
 
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Three 4 Luck - 2016-02-01 12:04 PM Nevertooold - 2016-02-01 12:00 PM Does it not bother anyone else how our government picks and chooses on who can stand for their beliefs and who can't? We watched Ferguson and Baltimore get destroyed by thugs and the police were told to stand down and let them do it. We watched occupiers disrupt Wall Street. A handful of ranchers occupying a preserve that is shut down for the winter was just too much for them. I call total BS. Who was a danger to the citizens around them and who was a danger to those in power? That's your why.
I couldn't agree more. They were worried that the movement would grow.
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Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | Here's another video...I have a hard time watching these, but, I think it's important considering what's at stake and what he was killed for.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sJo-7aCYu4&sns=fb
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Nevertooold - 2016-02-01 1:00 PM Does it not bother anyone else how our government picks and chooses on who can stand for their beliefs and who can't? We watched Ferguson and Baltimore get destroyed by thugs and the police were told to stand down and let them do it. We watched occupiers disrupt Wall Street. A handful of ranchers occupying a preserve that is shut down for the winter was just too much for them. I call total BS.
Yes and I have always been for the reasons.. But I cant say cold blooded ambush murder.. I can be for one but not agree with the other.. |
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 Knowledge is Power
Posts: 4051
Location: wherever my daughter's running | I agree and yes, they are are hard to watch. |
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Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | Bibliafarm - 2016-02-01 11:54 AM Nevertooold - 2016-02-01 1:00 PM Does it not bother anyone else how our government picks and chooses on who can stand for their beliefs and who can't? We watched Ferguson and Baltimore get destroyed by thugs and the police were told to stand down and let them do it. We watched occupiers disrupt Wall Street. A handful of ranchers occupying a preserve that is shut down for the winter was just too much for them. I call total BS. Yes and I have always been for the reasons.. But I cant say cold blooded ambush murder.. I can be for one but not agree with the other..
If you can watch this and still believe that...after all the pieces available so far, then I'm really nervous about the future of our world.
http://www.freecapitalist.com/2016/01/31/second-eyewitness-chronicling-the-tragic-ambush-and-murder-of-lavoy-finicum-video/
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 Expert
Posts: 1525
| I just watched the high resolution video...I realize he had nothing in his hands....but it looked like he kept putting his hands up, and then down, almost as if he was reaching into his jacket......am I think ONLY one that saw it that way? I am all for what those ranchers stand for...so please dont think that I am in any way against them. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | musikmaker - 2016-02-01 2:15 PM Bibliafarm - 2016-02-01 11:54 AM Nevertooold - 2016-02-01 1:00 PM Does it not bother anyone else how our government picks and chooses on who can stand for their beliefs and who can't? We watched Ferguson and Baltimore get destroyed by thugs and the police were told to stand down and let them do it. We watched occupiers disrupt Wall Street. A handful of ranchers occupying a preserve that is shut down for the winter was just too much for them. I call total BS. Yes and I have always been for the reasons.. But I cant say cold blooded ambush murder.. I can be for one but not agree with the other..
http://www.freecapitalist.com/2016/01/31/second-eyewitness-chronicling-the-tragic-ambush-and-murder-of-lavoy-finicum-video/
There are several pieces out there.. and concerned about the future of our world because I dont agree with you is a bit dramatic.. you dont know what happened anymore then I do.. you cant convince me no more then I can convince you.. we will have to wait it out.. |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8552
Location: sunny california | Nevertooold - 2016-02-01 10:00 AM Does it not bother anyone else how our government picks and chooses on who can stand for their beliefs and who can't? We watched Ferguson and Baltimore get destroyed by thugs and the police were told to stand down and let them do it. We watched occupiers disrupt Wall Street. A handful of ranchers occupying a preserve that is shut down for the winter was just too much for them. I call total BS.
If you want to compare this to Ferguson. I wonder how many ranchers would get shot down if they started rioting the towns in oregon...
the timeline goes...first "criminals" threaten "authority", then they get shot, then all the angry people get to riot and nothing happens.
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 Expert
Posts: 1898
| MOTIVATED - 2016-02-01 1:17 PM
I just watched the high resolution video...I realize he had nothing in his hands....but it looked like he kept putting his hands up, and then down, almost as if he was reaching into his jacket......am I think ONLY one that saw it that way? I am all for what those ranchers stand for...so please dont think that I am in any way against them.
No, we all saw the same thing but now there is question as to whether he had been gut shot prior to dropping his hands and he was reaching for the wound. We will never know until/if an autopsy is released.
It appears to me that this theory may be plausible as you see his shoulders slump over and his torso suck in while he is facing the agent next to the vehicle, he then drops his hands down, raises them back up turns around and reaches for his chest, some are speculating he was shot in the back and he may have been reaching toward an exit wound before he was killed with the fatal shot.
The video does not show any muzzle blast or weapon recoil, not from the definite shot or from the other two speculated shots which seems odd to me. I would think, you would be able to see both especially in the higher resolution videos. Coming from a hunting background I do see where people are saying he was gut shot as he does respond much like a gut shot animal before he turns around. All speculation of course.
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | kwanatha - 2016-02-01 1:40 PM Nevertooold - 2016-02-01 10:00 AM Does it not bother anyone else how our government picks and chooses on who can stand for their beliefs and who can't? We watched Ferguson and Baltimore get destroyed by thugs and the police were told to stand down and let them do it. We watched occupiers disrupt Wall Street. A handful of ranchers occupying a preserve that is shut down for the winter was just too much for them. I call total BS. If you want to compare this to Ferguson. I wonder how many ranchers would get shot down if they started rioting the towns in oregon...
the timeline goes...first "criminals" threaten "authority", then they get shot, then all the angry people get to riot and nothing happens.
And they continue to bow down to the thugs. I don't think it would go like this for the ranchers.
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Expert
Posts: 1525
| cyount2009 - 2016-02-01 1:48 PM
MOTIVATED - 2016-02-01 1:17 PM
I just watched the high resolution video...I realize he had nothing in his hands....but it looked like he kept putting his hands up, and then down, almost as if he was reaching into his jacket......am I think ONLY one that saw it that way? I am all for what those ranchers stand for...so please dont think that I am in any way against them.
No, we all saw the same thing but now there is question as to whether he had been gut shot prior to dropping his hands and he was reaching for the wound. We will never know until/if an autopsy is released.
It appears to me that this theory may be plausible as you see his shoulders slump over and his torso suck in while he is facing the agent next to the vehicle, he then drops his hands down, raises them back up turns around and reaches for his chest, some are speculating he was shot in the back and he may have been reaching toward an exit wound before he was killed with the fatal shot.
The video does not show any muzzle blast or weapon recoil, not from the definite shot or from the other two speculated shots which seems odd to me. I would think, you would be able to see both especially in the higher resolution videos. Coming from a hunting background I do see where people are saying he was gut shot as he does respond much like a gut shot animal before he turns around. All speculation of course.
I heard on a FB post that he was shot 9 times? and that the serial number to the 9mm he was said to have in his jacket was stolen 2 years ago and may have been planted. NONE of that has been confirmed.
Edited by MOTIVATED 2016-02-01 2:02 PM
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Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | Bibliafarm - 2016-02-01 12:23 PM musikmaker - 2016-02-01 2:15 PM Bibliafarm - 2016-02-01 11:54 AM Nevertooold - 2016-02-01 1:00 PM Does it not bother anyone else how our government picks and chooses on who can stand for their beliefs and who can't? We watched Ferguson and Baltimore get destroyed by thugs and the police were told to stand down and let them do it. We watched occupiers disrupt Wall Street. A handful of ranchers occupying a preserve that is shut down for the winter was just too much for them. I call total BS. Yes and I have always been for the reasons.. But I cant say cold blooded ambush murder.. I can be for one but not agree with the other..
http://www.freecapitalist.com/2016/01/31/second-eyewitness-chronicling-the-tragic-ambush-and-murder-of-lavoy-finicum-video/
This is about our Constitution...about States Rights...about federal overreach.
Here's a couple decent fb pages (and home pages) that better explain the position of the states and why many of us feel it's pertinent to re-establish our control over our own lives and land so we may enjoy self governance. If we lose it out here...that virus will spread.
Along with a Constitutional attorney:
https://www.facebook.com/krisanne.hall/?fref=ts
http://krisannehall.com/
https://www.facebook.com/AmericanLandsCouncil/?fref=ts
http://www.americanlandscouncil.org/
https://www.facebook.com/tenthamendmentcenter/?fref=ts
http://tenthamendmentcenter.com/
eta: Thank you all for taking the time to educate yourselves and to hopefully understand that since it's still considered 'public land' then those who live east have a huge voice in how we are allowed to live out here...we don't have the same rights as you, we aren't 'equal citizens'.
Edited by musikmaker 2016-02-01 2:14 PM
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8552
Location: sunny california | Nevertooold - 2016-02-01 12:01 PM kwanatha - 2016-02-01 1:40 PM Nevertooold - 2016-02-01 10:00 AM Does it not bother anyone else how our government picks and chooses on who can stand for their beliefs and who can't? We watched Ferguson and Baltimore get destroyed by thugs and the police were told to stand down and let them do it. We watched occupiers disrupt Wall Street. A handful of ranchers occupying a preserve that is shut down for the winter was just too much for them. I call total BS. If you want to compare this to Ferguson. I wonder how many ranchers would get shot down if they started rioting the towns in oregon...
the timeline goes...first "criminals" threaten "authority", then they get shot, then all the angry people get to riot and nothing happens.
yes different set of rules |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8552
Location: sunny california | It just makes me mad that these ranchers get labeled terrorists, when everyone knows that terrorism is an offensive game. these ranchers are clearly playing defense. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 962
| Don't have time to read all the pages of conspiracy stuff, but thought this was an interesting passage from an article on the Tri-State Livestock news, www.tsln.com. Quoting one of the self-elected "Safety Committee". And this from a paper who is sympathetic and keeps softballing the coverage.
"The last time he stopped in, Williams, a member of the newly formed “Committee of Safety” in Harney County, said he delivered a letter kindly asking the protesters to leave. “We wanted them to go home so we could work on what we wanted to do.”
And now Williams hopes the feds will go home, so everyone can get back to work. “I don’t want Harney County going back to how it was. I’d like to go back to work on this dream of having our resources back – putting money back in to the counties around here. I’d like to see if we can get that done.”
Williams hopes all or most of Oregon’s counties with large percentages of federal lands will put together plans for more local land management. “We do have grazing rights on that ground that are more valuable than the ground itself,” he said, adding that he hopes to somehow effect policy change that puts the land under county, rather than federal management.
“Oregon is losing $2 million per year on land management. Once we get up and going the counties and state could be making two to three times that much.” If ranchers knew their grazing fees were going to support local activity like schools, hospital and county needs, most would not mind paying higher fees, he said. “I’m sure people would step up and pay.”
Yes, I'm sure all the ranchers with Federal leases would be delighted to pay more to graze their cattle. I hate to say "I told you so.", but a return to local control of all that land doesn't mean ranchers would just get it all like is implied. It would just mean that it would be sold or leased to the highest bidder, used, abused, and thrown away when all the income is squeezed out by the powers that be that lurk in the shadows and drive the ignorant to do their dirty work. And all those nice families that are federal employees, I heard 40% of the work force, they would have to move, but that would leave a lot of empty houses so the militia goofballs could move in, but of course that would destroy the housing market and the locals could start worrying that their little girls and boys might be targets to all those people with felony records. With all those families leaving, the stores will probably have to close, but I bet the bars will be hopping, then the drunks will be shooting up the town, but that should jump the need for doctors, or undertakers. Yes, everything will be hunky dory if the ranchers can get the Feds out of their business. Then the next time the federal government comes begging those ranchers to please take those disaster payments for drought or blizzards or fire, or cost shares on improvements, why those ranchers can just kick sand in their face and say "Git lost. We don't need your stinkin' money!" That will show the government.
Remember, be careful what you wish for. |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | kwanatha - 2016-02-01 2:16 PM It just makes me mad that these ranchers get labeled terrorists, when everyone knows that terrorism is an offensive game. these ranchers are clearly playing defense.
Exactly. Terrorists are a threat to us all. I don't feel the least bit in danger from these guys. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | And the real terrorists are called "Refugees" |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8552
Location: sunny california | Bibliafarm - 2016-02-01 1:03 PM And the real terrorists are called "Refugees"
I know it is like a word game! |
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 Toastest with the Mostest
Posts: 5712
Location: That part of Texas | Three 4 Luck - 2016-02-01 2:27 PM kwanatha - 2016-02-01 2:16 PM It just makes me mad that these ranchers get labeled terrorists, when everyone knows that terrorism is an offensive game. these ranchers are clearly playing defense. Exactly. Terrorists are a threat to us all. I don't feel the least bit in danger from these guys.
I think both sides have blown the terrorism link to the actual law name out of proportion and have tried to get as much mileage as they can out of it. People who understand how laws are made and work with them are shaking their heads on this one -- it's not completely out of context but you can make it so by how you want to use it or abuse it.
Law names/classifications don't always match what you would think or what you think it should be. Let's say that I find out my boyfriend is cheating on me and I go over to confront the lady that's doing the nasty with him. I walk up to her door, we get into a fight in her doorway and the cops are called. In Texas I'm going to be charged with Burglary of a Habitation for that set of conduct. Does it mean that I'm a thief or a burglarer? No, it just means that's the law I'm charged under because Texas doesn't have another one that they use for such conduct. To be convicted of Burglary of a Habitation, the State has to prove (1) that I entered a home without consent of the owner and (2) I intended to commit another crime when I did so. It's a stupid law classification and misleading but it is what it is. Same for what the Hammonds were actually charged under -- it's a bunch of laws couched under a stupid classification:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2016/01/the_aedpa_was_used_to_prosecute_oregon_hammond_ranchers.html
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Folks on-line