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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
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| How quickly did y'all see a difference in your moderate PSSM 2 horses after a full diet change? |
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 Mrs. Perks Alive
Posts: 1162
Location: Madill Ok | i would love to know how they tested 8 day old embryos. very interesting. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 380
| Bummer:(
Moon deck and sugar bars are both on my mares pedigree as great great gandsires . And she at times seems touchy. Like she doesn't even like to be brushed with a soft brush. Had the chiropractor out and her hips needed work. Mostly the right side and she like to cross fire but that has improved with a good 4 months off. She is on Tribute kalm ultra but pastures 12 hours a day. I think I am going to have her6 tested.
Edited by SloRide 2017-02-20 2:02 PM
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  Champ
Posts: 19623
 
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | bumping |
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Location: in the ozone | Scary times now with all the genetic diseases being found. I don't think they are done yet, but I do think some will be less of an issue to horses than others. We have been wanting to buy a couple more but won't until all the current tests are available for faster results. |
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Location: in the ozone | Also very interesting reading back through older posts on this thread to see how far they've come with information and what is the "more correct" way to handle PSSM1 vs the PSSM2 variants. |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | slipperyslope - 2017-10-05 8:44 AM
Also very interesting reading back through older posts on this thread to see how far they've come with information and what is the "more correct" way to handle PSSM1 vs the PSSM2 variants.
I think you're right and all of us learning more all the time.
Knowing some horses that are tested and the results being sometimes homozygous for one or more of the P2 variants and who they are by and o/o, we are (and have been for a long time) living with a lot of positive horses that have the P2 variants but they are functioning at a high level in spite of it. It may not be such a horrible thing after all. We will undoubtedly want to figure out how to feed them better, monitor them closer and breed away from these things, but, it's not the end of the world. These mutations have been around for centuries and in spite of them a lot of horses have been fabulous horses/sires/producers. |
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Expert
Posts: 1409
Location: Oklahoma | Since this tread is about 3 years old I am sure they know more bout this disease and the testing. So what is the best place to test and how much? Should you test for both or if you get a PSSM 1 positive do you still test for PSSM 2? And I am confused bc on the PSSM 1 diet looks like high protein with fat. and the same is said with PSSM 2 diet. So please tell me the feed program for each. Or is the difference one has to be off grass the other doesn't? I know that on PSSM 1 have to watch the starch/sugar. |
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Veteran
Posts: 296
| Turnburnsis - 2017-10-06 2:35 AM
Since this tread is about 3 years old I am sure they know more bout this disease and the testing. So what is the best place to test and how much? Should you test for both or if you get a PSSM 1 positive do you still test for PSSM 2? And I am confused bc on the PSSM 1 diet looks like high protein with fat. and the same is said with PSSM 2 diet. So please tell me the feed program for each. Or is the difference one has to be off grass the other doesn't? I know that on PSSM 1 have to watch the starch/sugar.
I too am wondering all of this - I was told to test both ways - through Animal Genetics for type 1, and EquiSec for type 2...which is what I have done. Came back negative for type 1, but I'd bet my money she's type 2 due to the sudden muscle loss (and as a 4 yr old). The whole what to feed thing has me confused - there is SO much information! |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | By far the best place to get help and information about the feed programs needed to keep these horses comfortable and symptoms at bay is the PSSM page on facebook. Just remember, it's all a work in progress. They are learning all the time. One thing may not work for your horse and something different will. You need to understand the process behind the disorder. WHY it does what it does. P1 is intolerance to sugar/starch. P2 variants are not nearly as sensitive to sugar/starch. P2 variants need more and better protein sources with balanced minerals as at least one of the P2's has something to do with calcium getting trapped in the cells (I think). If the calcium is too high in the diet, it causes more problems. I've never had to maintain one of these horses. So I read the threads but I'm not saying I'm an expert. |
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Location: in the ozone | EquiSeq tests for the different variants of PSSM2. They are currently the only lab doing it, but goal is to have all of the data proven and verified/released for other labs to test by first of 2018 (and then should be less expensive & faster). I have 2 geldings with it. One is n/P2 and was really symptomatic, but has done much better with higher protein and the Tri Amino Acids. The other one is n/P2 & n/PX (RER) so has been a struggle to find a happy balance. These are genetic diseases - and there are certain bloodlines that are suspect to be passing it on. There is NO cure. The PSSM2 really "isn't" PSSM - it's not a Polysaccaride Storage Myopathy like type 1 - it is a muscle degeneration disease.
The PSSM Forum on FB is really good & very helpful. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 313
Location: WI | Just wondering if anyone knows if the Hayrite Complete Equine pellets are a good pellet to feed PSSM horses? |
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Veteran
Posts: 242
| I board a horse for a girl that has PSSM 1. I called about the hay rite complete & performance pellets- they both have NSC 7.08. I want to try them so bad too but don't know if he can handle it? |
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 Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12704
| OregonBR - 2017-10-05 12:45 PM slipperyslope - 2017-10-05 8:44 AM Also very interesting reading back through older posts on this thread to see how far they've come with information and what is the "more correct" way to handle PSSM1 vs the PSSM2 variants. I think you're right and all of us learning more all the time. Knowing some horses that are tested and the results being sometimes homozygous for one or more of the P2 variants and who they are by and o/o, we are (and have been for a long time ) living with a lot of positive horses that have the P2 variants but they are functioning at a high level in spite of it. It may not be such a horrible thing after all. We will undoubtedly want to figure out how to feed them better, monitor them closer and breed away from these things, but, it's not the end of the world. These mutations have been around for centuries and in spite of them a lot of horses have been fabulous horses/sires/producers.
I have noticed a huge change in overall nervous/hyper activitiy in all my horses since removing bagged feed almost completely. Even my 'nutcase' broodie let us handle her foal last spring without as much crazed behavior. The crazy thing is that none of mine have LESS energy - and in fact they are more perky than ever, just no out of bounds reactionary stuff. Laid back but frisky is a good way to describe all my horses now. None of them have hay bellies, and none of them have too much crease in their back.
I have bloodlines that may or may not have issues with PSSM Type 2. None with PSSM Type 1. If I can see such a difference in them without the higher NSC feeds then I can only imagine how much difference there would be in a known PSSM horse. |
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Veteran
Posts: 233
| donk - 2017-11-13 11:42 AM
I board a horse for a girl that has PSSM 1. I called about the hay rite complete & performance pellets- they both have NSC 7.08. I want to try them so bad too but don't know if he can handle it?
An NSC under 10 is extremely low. I wouldn't hesitate to feed it. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 897
Location: Glendive Mt. | The feed thing is very confusing, one says alfalfa and then one says only grass ?? I am feeding alfalfa and that is not working at all. It's all I am able to get right now and I am on the hunt for straight grass. Also would love to know if I can feed just grass pellets or grass hay cubes ?? Would this be equivalent ?? |
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Location: in the ozone | giddyuplpn - 2017-11-16 10:03 AM
The feed thing is very confusing, one says alfalfa and then one says only grass ?? I am feeding alfalfa and that is not working at all. It's all I am able to get right now and I am on the hunt for straight grass. Also would love to know if I can feed just grass pellets or grass hay cubes ?? Would this be equivalent ??
It also depends on what type you are dealing with. Type1 "usually" does better with grass hays. Some type 2 horses do great on more alfalfa hay, some don't. Unfortunately there is no one "recipe" that helps every horse. Many times it's trial and error. P2 horses need the Tri Amino Acids. As mentioned above, go to Facebook & join the PSSM Forum (NOT the one that mentions 5 panel testing). The other one that is good is Managing PSSM, RER, and other muscle diseases. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1165
Location: California | I know I've had issues ever since my 5yr old was weaned with keeping muscle and weight on him. Didn't matter what I fed or what I did. He also had odd muscle tremors after being worked but I just chalked it up to his lack of mscle and he was tired and I asked too much. Up until he was 4yrs old he was alwas so laid back and willing. Then as a 4yr old he started getting more resistant and on edge. Turned 5 and he started getting extremely spooky. About sold him 3 times because I was so frustrated and at a loss. Sent him to a trainer and he was sent home after becoming pretty dangerous. Joined the PSSM Forum facebook page and with the help of some amzing people my gelding looks and acts like a whole new horse! We are still battling the spookiness outside of an arena but he is much more manageable. He is retaining and gaining muscle tone and is borderline fat right now! We also switched from barrels to jumping and he is much happier!
I posted his pedigree on the Facebook group and was told his damage side has some PSSM 1 & 2 carriers and his sires side also has PSSM 2 suspects. He's been tested negative for PSSM 1 and I'm hoping with my tax refund I can get him tested for the PSSM panel through EquiSeq! Idk what it is if it's not PSSM 2 but I'm just thankful for that group and to finally be on the right track with my gelding! |
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Tried and True
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Location: Where I am happiest | ... |
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 Ms Bling Bling Sleeze Kitty
Posts: 20904
Location: LouLouVille, OK | slipperyslope - 2017-11-18 9:19 PM giddyuplpn - 2017-11-16 10:03 AM The feed thing is very confusing, one says alfalfa and then one says only grass ?? I am feeding alfalfa and that is not working at all. It's all I am able to get right now and I am on the hunt for straight grass. Also would love to know if I can feed just grass pellets or grass hay cubes ?? Would this be equivalent ?? It also depends on what type you are dealing with. Type1 "usually" does better with grass hays. Some type 2 horses do great on more alfalfa hay, some don't. Unfortunately there is no one "recipe" that helps every horse. Many times it's trial and error. P2 horses need the Tri Amino Acids. As mentioned above, go to Facebook & join the PSSM Forum (NOT the one that mentions 5 panel testing ). The other one that is good is Managing PSSM, RER, and other muscle diseases.
Interesting... and Danco Forage has Omnis cubes that are alfalfa and timothy grass mix and no oats, for anyone interested in a change in feeding programs... Therefor making them no NSC. It's amazing when you read up on all these and like someone else said, these things have been around for generations, just imagine how many greats had these and you never knew it... :) Diets can do so much... |
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