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LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?

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ThreeCorners
Reg. Nov 2003
Posted 2016-02-03 8:37 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?


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 I dont know what to think about all of this at this point. Scary times.
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cruise
Reg. Apr 2005
Posted 2016-02-03 8:53 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



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 I take this obit. to be factual.  It is worth the read as it shows what his family thinks happened. 

http://www.hughesmortuary.com/notices/Robert-Finicum
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FinneyQuarterHorses
Reg. Mar 2012
Posted 2016-02-03 9:06 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?


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MS2011 - 2016-02-02 3:59 PM I just really hope the family has an autopsy done and it's made public.....its the only way to know what happened.

^^^^ I agree......this thread is beginning to border on the ridiculous with links to this "expert", this "witness" or this "video", this "whatever.".........We all KNOW that if you hunt the internet long enough, you are going to find an article, report, supposed eye witness, expert, etc, etc that will bolster your position....and of course, everything you find MUST be true....it's on the internet!  

BINGO!!!!!

Yep, " I heard he was shot 9 times and his casket will be closed....."

From Oregonlive:

The family commissioned its own autopsy on Finicum that was completed over the weekend, according to a family member. The family hasn't released details from that autopsy.

I wonder why they haven't released the details?

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3canstorun
Reg. May 2007
Posted 2016-02-03 9:13 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



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MS2011 - 2016-02-02 3:59 PM I just really hope the family has an autopsy done and it's made public.....its the only way to know what happened.
^^^^ I agree......this thread is beginning to border on the ridiculous with links to this "expert", this "witness" or this "video", this "whatever.".........We all KNOW that if you hunt the internet long enough, you are going to find an article, report, supposed eye witness, expert, etc, etc that will bolster your position....and of course, everything you find MUST be true....it's on the internet!  
BINGO!!!!!
Yep, " I heard he was shot 9 times and his casket will be closed....."
From Oregonlive: The family commissioned its own autopsy on Finicum that was completed over the weekend, according to a family member. The family hasn't released details from that autopsy. I wonder why they haven't released the details?

And, I wonder why you don't answer simple questions either? 

 
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cruise
Reg. Apr 2005
Posted 2016-02-03 9:21 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



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FinneyQuarterHorses - 2016-02-03 10:06 AM
Bear - 2016-02-02 7:41 PM
jbhoot - 2016-02-02 5:30 PM
NJJ - 2016-02-02 5:08 PM
MS2011 - 2016-02-02 3:59 PM I just really hope the family has an autopsy done and it's made public.....its the only way to know what happened.
^^^^ I agree......this thread is beginning to border on the ridiculous with links to this "expert", this "witness" or this "video", this "whatever.".........We all KNOW that if you hunt the internet long enough, you are going to find an article, report, supposed eye witness, expert, etc, etc that will bolster your position....and of course, everything you find MUST be true....it's on the internet!  
BINGO!!!!!
Yep, " I heard he was shot 9 times and his casket will be closed....."
From Oregonlive: The family commissioned its own autopsy on Finicum that was completed over the weekend, according to a family member. The family hasn't released details from that autopsy. I wonder why they haven't released the details?

Possibly they haven't released the results as the advice of their attorney, or prehaps they have been very sadden by his death and planning his funeral.  I would think their knowledge of the autopsy results factors into the statements they made.   


http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/02/lavoy_finicums_family_death_un.html#incart_maj-story-1

 
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Douglas J Gordon
Reg. Jun 2008
Posted 2016-02-03 9:23 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



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cruise - 2016-02-03 8:53 AM  I take this obit. to be factual.  It is worth the read as it shows what his family thinks happened. 



http://www.hughesmortuary.com/notices/Robert-Finicum

I don't know why but for some reason I would like to attend his funeral.
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NJJ
Reg. Jul 2006
Posted 2016-02-03 9:35 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?


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cruise - 2016-02-03 9:21 AM
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jbhoot - 2016-02-02 5:30 PM
NJJ - 2016-02-02 5:08 PM
MS2011 - 2016-02-02 3:59 PM I just really hope the family has an autopsy done and it's made public.....its the only way to know what happened.
^^^^ I agree......this thread is beginning to border on the ridiculous with links to this "expert", this "witness" or this "video", this "whatever.".........We all KNOW that if you hunt the internet long enough, you are going to find an article, report, supposed eye witness, expert, etc, etc that will bolster your position....and of course, everything you find MUST be true....it's on the internet!  
BINGO!!!!!
Yep, " I heard he was shot 9 times and his casket will be closed....."
From Oregonlive: The family commissioned its own autopsy on Finicum that was completed over the weekend, according to a family member. The family hasn't released details from that autopsy. I wonder why they haven't released the details?
Possibly they haven't released the results as the advice of their attorney, or prehaps they have been very sadden by his death and planning his funeral.  I would think their knowledge of the autopsy results factors into the statements they made.   


http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/02/lavoy_finicums_family_death_un.html#incart_maj-story-1

 
EXACTLY my point....yet another article that they "believe" this or they "believe" that....NO FACTS.....NONE.......they were NOT there nor were the majority of the people who are writing these articles.  

Regarding the "sound" on the video....Have you ever been in a helicoptor....the only thing that you would BE hearing would be the LOUD roar of the blades.......

 

Edited by NJJ 2016-02-03 10:07 AM
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MS2011
Reg. Mar 2005
Posted 2016-02-03 9:36 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



Own It and Move On


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NJJ - 2016-02-03 9:35 AM
cruise - 2016-02-03 9:21 AM
FinneyQuarterHorses - 2016-02-03 10:06 AM
Bear - 2016-02-02 7:41 PM
jbhoot - 2016-02-02 5:30 PM
NJJ - 2016-02-02 5:08 PM
MS2011 - 2016-02-02 3:59 PM I just really hope the family has an autopsy done and it's made public.....its the only way to know what happened.
^^^^ I agree......this thread is beginning to border on the ridiculous with links to this "expert", this "witness" or this "video", this "whatever.".........We all KNOW that if you hunt the internet long enough, you are going to find an article, report, supposed eye witness, expert, etc, etc that will bolster your position....and of course, everything you find MUST be true....it's on the internet!  
BINGO!!!!!
Yep, " I heard he was shot 9 times and his casket will be closed....."
From Oregonlive: The family commissioned its own autopsy on Finicum that was completed over the weekend, according to a family member. The family hasn't released details from that autopsy. I wonder why they haven't released the details?
Possibly they haven't released the results as the advice of their attorney, or prehaps they have been very sadden by his death and planning his funeral.  I would think their knowledge of the autopsy results factors into the statements they made.   





http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/02/lavoy_finicums_family_death_un.html#incart_maj-story-1



 
EXACTLY my point....yet another article that they "believe" this or they "believe" that....NO FACTS.....NONE.......they were NOT there nor were the majority of the people who are writing these articles.  



Regarding the "sound" on the video....Have you ever been in a helicoptor....the only thing that you would BE hearing would be the LOUD roar of the blades.......


 

There's no way I believe the ONLY video is the one released.  There would've been others on the ground.  
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cyount2009
Reg. Apr 2012
Posted 2016-02-03 9:51 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



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Douglas J Gordon - 2016-02-03 9:23 AM

cruise - 2016-02-03 8:53 AM  I take this obit. to be factual.  It is worth the read as it shows what his family thinks happened. 



http://www.hughesmortuary.com/notices/Robert-Finicum

I don't know why but for some reason I would like to attend his funeral.

My husband and I said the same thing. If we were closer I would be going for sure, and I HATE funerals. I think it is because he died fighting for our way of life in the West and the battles we have watched our friends, neighbors and family lose time after time.
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musikmaker
Reg. Sep 2004
Posted 2016-02-03 9:52 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



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MS2011 - 2016-02-03 8:36 AM
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Bear - 2016-02-02 7:41 PM
jbhoot - 2016-02-02 5:30 PM
NJJ - 2016-02-02 5:08 PM
MS2011 - 2016-02-02 3:59 PM I just really hope the family has an autopsy done and it's made public.....its the only way to know what happened.
^^^^ I agree......this thread is beginning to border on the ridiculous with links to this "expert", this "witness" or this "video", this "whatever.".........We all KNOW that if you hunt the internet long enough, you are going to find an article, report, supposed eye witness, expert, etc, etc that will bolster your position....and of course, everything you find MUST be true....it's on the internet!  
BINGO!!!!!
Yep, " I heard he was shot 9 times and his casket will be closed....."
From Oregonlive: The family commissioned its own autopsy on Finicum that was completed over the weekend, according to a family member. The family hasn't released details from that autopsy. I wonder why they haven't released the details?
Possibly they haven't released the results as the advice of their attorney, or prehaps they have been very sadden by his death and planning his funeral.  I would think their knowledge of the autopsy results factors into the statements they made.   





http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/02/lavoy_finicums_family_death_un.html#incart_maj-story-1



 
EXACTLY my point....yet another article that they "believe" this or they "believe" that....NO FACTS.....NONE.......they were NOT there nor were the majority of the people who are writing these articles.  



Regarding the "sound" on the video....Have you ever been in a helicoptor....the only thing that you would BE hearing would be the LOUD roar of the blades.......


 
There's no way I believe the ONLY video is the one released.  There would've been others on the ground.  

I've been under the impression that the footage is from drones...I believe the fbi said they had 2 in the air. We have one, not a cheap one, it's somewhat noisy, I'd bet you could hear gunshots with it, though.
The picture quality on ours is much better than what was released in these videos...which makes me wonder if they didn't 'fuzz' it up a bit?

 
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musikmaker
Reg. Sep 2004
Posted 2016-02-03 9:54 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



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cyount2009 - 2016-02-03 8:51 AM
Douglas J Gordon - 2016-02-03 9:23 AM
cruise - 2016-02-03 8:53 AM  I take this obit. to be factual.  It is worth the read as it shows what his family thinks happened. 



http://www.hughesmortuary.com/notices/Robert-Finicum
I don't know why but for some reason I would like to attend his funeral.
My husband and I said the same thing. If we were closer I would be going for sure, and I HATE funerals. I think it is because he died fighting for our way of life in the West and the battles we have watched our friends, neighbors and family lose time after time.

We'll probably go...we have a lot of friends in common, may have met Lavoy in passing, idk, but, I just want to be a body for support.
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cruise
Reg. Apr 2005
Posted 2016-02-03 10:02 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



Knowledge is Power


Posts: 4051
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Location: wherever my daughter's running
NJJ - 2016-02-03 10:35 AM
cruise - 2016-02-03 9:21 AM
FinneyQuarterHorses - 2016-02-03 10:06 AM
Bear - 2016-02-02 7:41 PM
jbhoot - 2016-02-02 5:30 PM
NJJ - 2016-02-02 5:08 PM
MS2011 - 2016-02-02 3:59 PM I just really hope the family has an autopsy done and it's made public.....its the only way to know what happened.
^^^^ I agree......this thread is beginning to border on the ridiculous with links to this "expert", this "witness" or this "video", this "whatever.".........We all KNOW that if you hunt the internet long enough, you are going to find an article, report, supposed eye witness, expert, etc, etc that will bolster your position....and of course, everything you find MUST be true....it's on the internet!  
BINGO!!!!!
Yep, " I heard he was shot 9 times and his casket will be closed....."
From Oregonlive: The family commissioned its own autopsy on Finicum that was completed over the weekend, according to a family member. The family hasn't released details from that autopsy. I wonder why they haven't released the details?
Possibly they haven't released the results as the advice of their attorney, or prehaps they have been very sadden by his death and planning his funeral.  I would think their knowledge of the autopsy results factors into the statements they made.   





http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/02/lavoy_finicums_family_death_un.html#incart_maj-story-1



 
EXACTLY my point....yet another article that they "believe" this or they "believe" that....NO FACTS.....NONE.......they were NOT there nor were the majority of the people who are writing these articles.  



Regarding the "sound" on the video....Have you ever been in a helicoptor....the only thing that you would BE hearing would be the LOUD roar of the blades.......


 

Actually, yes, I have flown in a helicopter a few times.  Also, my husband was a crew chief for the medivac helicopters at Ft. Carson, CO when he was active military.  So, while no expert, I do have basic knowledge of choppers.  I agree that audio from the chopper would be inaudible - intentional or unintentional - maybe one day that will be answered.  I do feel confident that the pilot had some type of verbal communication with someone while this was going on via radio or whatever the newest technology is .  Then again based on the quality of the video the FBI released they may have been using soup cans with a hellva long string.  The video that presented to the general public, by thre FBI was poor at best.  Prehaps those fliming should be supplied decent cameras with zoom capability.  If this is the only visual documentation of the event then it screams cover-up to me. 
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NJJ
Reg. Jul 2006
Posted 2016-02-03 10:02 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?


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musikmaker - 2016-02-03 9:52 AM
MS2011 - 2016-02-03 8:36 AM
NJJ - 2016-02-03 9:35 AM
cruise - 2016-02-03 9:21 AM
FinneyQuarterHorses - 2016-02-03 10:06 AM
Bear - 2016-02-02 7:41 PM
jbhoot - 2016-02-02 5:30 PM
NJJ - 2016-02-02 5:08 PM
MS2011 - 2016-02-02 3:59 PM I just really hope the family has an autopsy done and it's made public.....its the only way to know what happened.
^^^^ I agree......this thread is beginning to border on the ridiculous with links to this "expert", this "witness" or this "video", this "whatever.".........We all KNOW that if you hunt the internet long enough, you are going to find an article, report, supposed eye witness, expert, etc, etc that will bolster your position....and of course, everything you find MUST be true....it's on the internet!  
BINGO!!!!!
Yep, " I heard he was shot 9 times and his casket will be closed....."
From Oregonlive: The family commissioned its own autopsy on Finicum that was completed over the weekend, according to a family member. The family hasn't released details from that autopsy. I wonder why they haven't released the details?
Possibly they haven't released the results as the advice of their attorney, or prehaps they have been very sadden by his death and planning his funeral.  I would think their knowledge of the autopsy results factors into the statements they made.   





http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/02/lavoy_finicums_family_death_un.html#incart_maj-story-1



 
EXACTLY my point....yet another article that they "believe" this or they "believe" that....NO FACTS.....NONE.......they were NOT there nor were the majority of the people who are writing these articles.  



Regarding the "sound" on the video....Have you ever been in a helicoptor....the only thing that you would BE hearing would be the LOUD roar of the blades.......


 
There's no way I believe the ONLY video is the one released.  There would've been others on the ground.  
I've been under the impression that the footage is from drones...I believe the fbi said they had 2 in the air. We have one, not a cheap one, it's somewhat noisy, I'd bet you could hear gunshots with it, though.

The picture quality on ours is much better than what was released in these videos...which makes me wonder if they didn't 'fuzz' it up a bit?


 

My mistake....yes, it was by drone......I would guess that it would depend on what model etc as to whether you could hear gunshots or IF it recorded sound too ?  
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NJJ
Reg. Jul 2006
Posted 2016-02-03 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?


Military family

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cruise - 2016-02-03 10:02 AM
NJJ - 2016-02-03 10:35 AM
cruise - 2016-02-03 9:21 AM
FinneyQuarterHorses - 2016-02-03 10:06 AM
Bear - 2016-02-02 7:41 PM
jbhoot - 2016-02-02 5:30 PM
NJJ - 2016-02-02 5:08 PM
MS2011 - 2016-02-02 3:59 PM I just really hope the family has an autopsy done and it's made public.....its the only way to know what happened.
^^^^ I agree......this thread is beginning to border on the ridiculous with links to this "expert", this "witness" or this "video", this "whatever.".........We all KNOW that if you hunt the internet long enough, you are going to find an article, report, supposed eye witness, expert, etc, etc that will bolster your position....and of course, everything you find MUST be true....it's on the internet!  
BINGO!!!!!
Yep, " I heard he was shot 9 times and his casket will be closed....."
From Oregonlive: The family commissioned its own autopsy on Finicum that was completed over the weekend, according to a family member. The family hasn't released details from that autopsy. I wonder why they haven't released the details?
Possibly they haven't released the results as the advice of their attorney, or prehaps they have been very sadden by his death and planning his funeral.  I would think their knowledge of the autopsy results factors into the statements they made.   





http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/02/lavoy_finicums_family_death_un.html#incart_maj-story-1



 
EXACTLY my point....yet another article that they "believe" this or they "believe" that....NO FACTS.....NONE.......they were NOT there nor were the majority of the people who are writing these articles.  



Regarding the "sound" on the video....Have you ever been in a helicoptor....the only thing that you would BE hearing would be the LOUD roar of the blades.......


 
Actually, yes, I have flown in a helicopter a few times.  Also, my husband was a crew chief for the medivac helicopters at Ft. Carson, CO when he was active military.  So, while no expert, I do have basic knowledge of choppers.  I agree that audio from the chopper would be inaudible - intentional or unintentional - maybe one day that will be answered.  I do feel confident that the pilot had some type of verbal communication with someone while this was going on via radio or whatever the newest technology is .  Then again based on the quality of the video the FBI released they may have been using soup cans with a hellva long string.  The video that presented to the general public, by thre FBI was poor at best.  Prehaps those fliming should be supplied decent cameras with zoom capability.  If this is the only visual documentation of the event then it screams cover-up to me. 

My mistake....it was taken by drone..... 
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musikmaker
Reg. Sep 2004
Posted 2016-02-03 10:13 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



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With some of what's going on in with this I thought some of you might be interested in some videos from the Tenth Amendment Center that approach the issues of the federal gov't vs the states in a very clear and professional manner...!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqF4zyY2Kd8

 
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cruise
Reg. Apr 2005
Posted 2016-02-03 10:22 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



Knowledge is Power


Posts: 4051
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Location: wherever my daughter's running
NJJ - 2016-02-03 11:04 AM
cruise - 2016-02-03 10:02 AM
NJJ - 2016-02-03 10:35 AM
cruise - 2016-02-03 9:21 AM
FinneyQuarterHorses - 2016-02-03 10:06 AM
Bear - 2016-02-02 7:41 PM
jbhoot - 2016-02-02 5:30 PM
NJJ - 2016-02-02 5:08 PM
MS2011 - 2016-02-02 3:59 PM I just really hope the family has an autopsy done and it's made public.....its the only way to know what happened.
^^^^ I agree......this thread is beginning to border on the ridiculous with links to this "expert", this "witness" or this "video", this "whatever.".........We all KNOW that if you hunt the internet long enough, you are going to find an article, report, supposed eye witness, expert, etc, etc that will bolster your position....and of course, everything you find MUST be true....it's on the internet!  
BINGO!!!!!
Yep, " I heard he was shot 9 times and his casket will be closed....."
From Oregonlive: The family commissioned its own autopsy on Finicum that was completed over the weekend, according to a family member. The family hasn't released details from that autopsy. I wonder why they haven't released the details?
Possibly they haven't released the results as the advice of their attorney, or prehaps they have been very sadden by his death and planning his funeral.  I would think their knowledge of the autopsy results factors into the statements they made.   





http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/02/lavoy_finicums_family_death_un.html#incart_maj-story-1



 
EXACTLY my point....yet another article that they "believe" this or they "believe" that....NO FACTS.....NONE.......they were NOT there nor were the majority of the people who are writing these articles.  



Regarding the "sound" on the video....Have you ever been in a helicoptor....the only thing that you would BE hearing would be the LOUD roar of the blades.......


 
Actually, yes, I have flown in a helicopter a few times.  Also, my husband was a crew chief for the medivac helicopters at Ft. Carson, CO when he was active military.  So, while no expert, I do have basic knowledge of choppers.  I agree that audio from the chopper would be inaudible - intentional or unintentional - maybe one day that will be answered.  I do feel confident that the pilot had some type of verbal communication with someone while this was going on via radio or whatever the newest technology is .  Then again based on the quality of the video the FBI released they may have been using soup cans with a hellva long string.  The video that presented to the general public, by thre FBI was poor at best.  Prehaps those fliming should be supplied decent cameras with zoom capability.  If this is the only visual documentation of the event then it screams cover-up to me. 
My mistake....it was taken by drone..... 

Who knows - which as I write this I realize validates your original statement - I have read it was shot from an airplane, helicopter and now drone.  Whatever it was they need to upgrade.  :)  I live on the east coast - most of the people here have no idea about the Hammonds.  Few are vaguely aware of the situation at the wildlife refuge.  I find it sad that the media has cover this the way they have.  I do not think it is being an alarmest to be deeply concerned about that happened on the remote road and to want facts - in the absence of facts - speculation takes over.  I am guilty of this as are others - but I would rather see people care enough to speculate than to ignore the fact that it ever happened.. 
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MS2011
Reg. Mar 2005
Posted 2016-02-03 10:37 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



Own It and Move On


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Location: The edge of no where
musikmaker - 2016-02-03 9:54 AM
cyount2009 - 2016-02-03 8:51 AM
Douglas J Gordon - 2016-02-03 9:23 AM
cruise - 2016-02-03 8:53 AM  I take this obit. to be factual.  It is worth the read as it shows what his family thinks happened. 



http://www.hughesmortuary.com/notices/Robert-Finicum
I don't know why but for some reason I would like to attend his funeral.
My husband and I said the same thing. If we were closer I would be going for sure, and I HATE funerals. I think it is because he died fighting for our way of life in the West and the battles we have watched our friends, neighbors and family lose time after time.
We'll probably go...we have a lot of friends in common, may have met Lavoy in passing, idk, but, I just want to be a body for support.

If it was within driving distance - we'd absolutely go.  There's too few people willing to stand by their values.
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Nevertooold
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2016-02-03 11:16 AM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



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The over reach of the government on ranchers is wide spread. It's not all about Oregon.
 
Stockgrowers Question Federal Fire Double Standards
Thursday, January 07, 2016/Categories: Popular Posts, General News, Today's Top 5, National News, Ag Issues
 
Stockgrowers Question Federal Fire Double Standards

The South Dakota Stockgrowers Association sent letters this week to congressional delegates, the U.S. Attorney General’s office and the South Dakota Attorney General’s office questioning what they call “egregiously unbalanced response of federal land management agencies” and supporting the claims South Dakota ranchers made for compensation after the 2013 Pautre Fire burned nearly 10,000 acres of federal and private land.

“There is a big double standard being applied in these government land agencies,” said Stockgrowers President Bill Kluck. “We cannot support the use of terrorism laws against a family ranch while forest service staff are just allowed to go about their day. We’re not questioning who set these fires, but we’re very worried about how the law is being used.”

The 2013 Pautre Fire in South Dakota burned over 10,000 acres, 3,000 of which was federally owned land and the rest was privately owned land. The U.S. Forest Service has refused to pay any damages and no employees have been charged with wrongdoing.   Private landowners and ranchers affected by the blaze filed suit against the U.S. Forest Service last week after their claims for damage compensation were denied. The U.S. Forest Service ruled that the agency was not responsible for damages even though they intentionally set the fire, against recommendations from local ranchers and weather forecasters.

In the letter, President of the Association, Bill Kluck stated, “The kind of unchecked decision-making authority and lack of accountability from federal land management agencies as seen in the Pautre Fire, can and will be applied to other situations and likely at the expense of independent livestock producers and private property owners.”

SD Stockgrowers drew comparison to current satiation in Oregon where a father and son have been sentenced to 5 years in federal prison after a prescribed burn on their private property burned less than 140 acres of federal property. The family is required to pay $400,000 in damages and was prosecuted under the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996, which carries a minimum 5-year sentence.

 “SD Stockgrowers Association supports full compensation to the ranchers who were harmed by the Pautre Fire, and believe that liability should be applied to the U.S. Forest Service the way the Hammond’s were held liable for setting that fire.”

“South Dakota Stockgrowers Association is very concerned about the lack of accountability and responsibility being applied to federal agencies in one case while private individuals are held to a much higher, and completely different level of responsibility in the other,” said Kluck.

“We are asking that our congressional delegates, the South Dakota Attorney General and U.S. Attorney’s office take a look at these cases to see how we can correct this injustice to the Hammond family and use their case to make sure that our South Dakota ranchers are able to hold the Forest Service accountable and liable for their actions on the Pautre Fire.”
 
Source:  South Dakota Stockgrowers Association



 
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Nevertooold
Reg. Oct 2003
Posted 2016-02-03 12:11 PM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



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Lavoy Finicum, The FBI, and Why You’re Missing the Point
Here is the link to the podcast it’s also available through any podcast app under “the unallowable opinion” http://theunallowableopinion.libsyn.com/lavoy-finicum-the-fbi-and-the-big-point-that-youre-missing  And feel free to go over and like us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/TheUnallowableOpinion/?ref=aymt_homepage_panel
Lavoy Finicum, The FBI, and Why You’re Missing the Point
Throughout the past month we have heard news here and there about the “standoff” in Burns, Oregon.  I’m not going to get into the specific reasons why the group was there, to sum it up, it was a protest against unconstitutional federal government power.  As part of their protest, the group occupied an empty federal building and aired their grievances.  This last week we all read and heard about the “shootout” between the FBI and a small group of the protestors.  There are a couple of things we need to clarify about this confrontation.  First off, it wasn’t a shootout.  In order to have a shootout, you must have two parties shooting at each other.  This wasn’t the case as the FBI gunned down a man in cold blooded murder.  Secondly, the accounts from the FBI and from witnesses with Lavoy have extreme differences.  For example, the FBI says they only fired three shots, but when Victoria Sharp an eighteen-year old girl who was a passenger in the vehicle heard that, she said, “Are you kidding?  They shot maybe 120 times.”
A video recently surfaced from the FBI that showed the encounter.  Caleb and I break down the video in the Podcast so I won’t include that in here.  I’ll just say one thing; the video quality is pitiful.  It was shot from an FBI drone in the sky, there is no audio, you can’t see any detail, and the video is inconclusive to say the least.  The FBI’s story is that Lavoy Finicum was reaching for a gun and that is why he was shot.  All we have heard in the main stream media and on social media is whether or not the shooting was justified because he was going for a gun.  We can argue that point all day, without getting anywhere because there is not “indisputable video evidence” for either side.  The fact is, it doesn’t matter!  While we bicker over whether or not the shooting was justified, we are all missing the bigger picture here.
Why was there a roadblock set up in the first place?  Why was there such a display of force for something that had been peaceful up to this point?  When we contrast this protest with the riots in Ferguson or Baltimore, why were they handled so differently?  The answer to all these questions are the same; the Federal Government was trying to send a message.  This protest wasn’t minorities against white cops and police brutality.  It was The People versus the Federal Government.  This group was traveling to speak to a crowd in another city to spread their message of, abuse of government power.  They were exercising their rights to free speech and to peaceably assemble.  Last time I checked, those rights are still guaranteed by the constitution.  Nonetheless, the FBI told them not to go, and when they decided to go anyway, there were roadblocks and armed federal agents to prevent them from getting there.
The Federal Government’s message was loud and clear: “we are not afraid to kill those who stand up against our usurpation’s of power.”  The FBI never intended for this to end peacefully or there wouldn’t have been a roadblock set up in the first place.  Is it any coincidence that the only evidence we have of what actually happened is low quality video from a drone that poses more questions than it answers?  Why is there not more media coverage on what happened?  Can you imagine if this was a young black man shot by the cops?  There would be riots in the streets, with 24/7 media coverage.  There is no coverage however, because it does not fit the narrative of whites vs blacks.  It doesn’t divide the people against each other.  Instead, this is a story that should unite the people together to question the unconstitutional actions of our government.
It is no accident that cops stood by and watched in Ferguson and Baltimore as rioters violently broke the law and destroyed property, but in this case they were quick to exercise extreme force and kill a man.  Victor Hugo, author of the famous Les Miserables, once said “there is nothing as powerful as an idea whose time has come”.   The Federal Government’s purpose in killing Lavoy Finicum, wasn’t to kill a man but rather to kill the idea that he represented.  He was on his way to share that very idea with the group gathered in John Day, Oregon, and it is the idea I want to share with all of you.  The Federal Government has destroyed the constitution and chains with which it was once bound, and the time is coming for the people to step up as the jealous guardians of our God-given rights guaranteed by the constitution.  I firmly believe that the time is coming when this idea will come to fruition.  The government is afraid of such an idea, and they should be.  It is a powerful idea.  It is an idea that the Federal Government does not want the American people to believe in.  It is an idea worth killing over, and it is the idea we should all be talking about.
If you are still arguing over whether or not he was going for a gun and should have been shot, you are still not getting it.  Lavoy has been labeled a “traitor”, “terrorist” and “enemy of the state” because he stood up to the abuses of his government.  With that logic I suppose we could call every founding father who signed the Declaration of Independence a traitor and a terrorist, who pledged their “lives”, their “fortunes”, and their “sacred honor” to these words in that declaration.
“Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”
The founders understood that the constitution was just a piece of paper.  It alone could not restrain the monster that is Federal Government.  It is the “right” and the “duty” of the people to protect their rights against government.  We are the only ones who can hold our government accountable. Samuel Adams once said,
“No people will tamely surrender their Liberties, nor can any be easily subdued, when knowledge is diffused and virtue is preserved. On the Contrary, when People are universally ignorant, and debauched in their Manners, they will sink under their own weight without the Aid of foreign Invaders.”
 It is time for us to stop arguing about whether or not Finicum was going for a gun.  That’s not the point.  The point is, we are tamely surrendering our liberties in modern day America.  Ignorance abounds, we are sinking under our own weight, and it is time for something to change.
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komet.
Reg. Jun 2012
Posted 2016-02-03 1:31 PM
Subject: RE: LaVoy Finecum......what really happened to him?



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Nevertooold - 2016-02-03 12:11 PM Lavoy Finicum, The FBI, and Why You’re Missing the Point



Here is the link to the podcast it’s also available through any podcast app under “the unallowable opinion” http://theunallowableopinion.libsyn.com/lavoy-finicum-the-fbi-and-the-big-point-that-youre-missing  And feel free to go over and like us on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/TheUnallowableOpinion/?ref=aymt_homepage_panel

Lavoy Finicum, The FBI, and Why You’re Missing the Point

Throughout the past month we have heard news here and there about the “standoff” in Burns, Oregon.  I’m not going to get into the specific reasons why the group was there, to sum it up, it was a protest against unconstitutional federal government power.  As part of their protest, the group occupied an empty federal building and aired their grievances.  This last week we all read and heard about the “shootout” between the FBI and a small group of the protestors.  There are a couple of things we need to clarify about this confrontation.  First off, it wasn’t a shootout.  In order to have a shootout, you must have two parties shooting at each other.  This wasn’t the case as the FBI gunned down a man in cold blooded murder.  Secondly, the accounts from the FBI and from witnesses with Lavoy have extreme differences.  For example, the FBI says they only fired three shots, but when Victoria Sharp an eighteen-year old girl who was a passenger in the vehicle heard that, she said, “Are you kidding?  They shot maybe 120 times.”

A video recently surfaced from the FBI that showed the encounter.  Caleb and I break down the video in the Podcast so I won’t include that in here.  I’ll just say one thing; the video quality is pitiful.  It was shot from an FBI drone in the sky, there is no audio, you can’t see any detail, and the video is inconclusive to say the least.  The FBI’s story is that Lavoy Finicum was reaching for a gun and that is why he was shot.  All we have heard in the main stream media and on social media is whether or not the shooting was justified because he was going for a gun.  We can argue that point all day, without getting anywhere because there is not “indisputable video evidence” for either side.  The fact is, it doesn’t matter!  While we bicker over whether or not the shooting was justified, we are all missing the bigger picture here.

Why was there a roadblock set up in the first place?  Why was there such a display of force for something that had been peaceful up to this point?  When we contrast this protest with the riots in Ferguson or Baltimore, why were they handled so differently?  The answer to all these questions are the same; the Federal Government was trying to send a message.  This protest wasn’t minorities against white cops and police brutality.  It was The People versus the Federal Government.  This group was traveling to speak to a crowd in another city to spread their message of, abuse of government power.  They were exercising their rights to free speech and to peaceably assemble.  Last time I checked, those rights are still guaranteed by the constitution.  Nonetheless, the FBI told them not to go, and when they decided to go anyway, there were roadblocks and armed federal agents to prevent them from getting there.

The Federal Government’s message was loud and clear: “we are not afraid to kill those who stand up against our usurpation’s of power.”  The FBI never intended for this to end peacefully or there wouldn’t have been a roadblock set up in the first place.  Is it any coincidence that the only evidence we have of what actually happened is low quality video from a drone that poses more questions than it answers?  Why is there not more media coverage on what happened?  Can you imagine if this was a young black man shot by the cops?  There would be riots in the streets, with 24/7 media coverage.  There is no coverage however, because it does not fit the narrative of whites vs blacks.  It doesn’t divide the people against each other.  Instead, this is a story that should unite the people together to question the unconstitutional actions of our government.

It is no accident that cops stood by and watched in Ferguson and Baltimore as rioters violently broke the law and destroyed property, but in this case they were quick to exercise extreme force and kill a man.  Victor Hugo, author of the famous Les Miserables, once said “there is nothing as powerful as an idea whose time has come”.   The Federal Government’s purpose in killing Lavoy Finicum, wasn’t to kill a man but rather to kill the idea that he represented.  He was on his way to share that very idea with the group gathered in John Day, Oregon, and it is the idea I want to share with all of you.  The Federal Government has destroyed the constitution and chains with which it was once bound, and the time is coming for the people to step up as the jealous guardians of our God-given rights guaranteed by the constitution.  I firmly believe that the time is coming when this idea will come to fruition.  The government is afraid of such an idea, and they should be.  It is a powerful idea.  It is an idea that the Federal Government does not want the American people to believe in.  It is an idea worth killing over, and it is the idea we should all be talking about.

If you are still arguing over whether or not he was going for a gun and should have been shot, you are still not getting it.  Lavoy has been labeled a “traitor”, “terrorist” and “enemy of the state” because he stood up to the abuses of his government.  With that logic I suppose we could call every founding father who signed the Declaration of Independence a traitor and a terrorist, who pledged their “lives”, their “fortunes”, and their “sacred honor” to these words in that declaration.

“Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”

The founders understood that the constitution was just a piece of paper.  It alone could not restrain the monster that is Federal Government.  It is the “right” and the “duty” of the people to protect their rights against government.  We are the only ones who can hold our government accountable. Samuel Adams once said,

“No people will tamely surrender their Liberties, nor can any be easily subdued, when knowledge is diffused and virtue is preserved. On the Contrary, when People are universally ignorant, and debauched in their Manners, they will sink under their own weight without the Aid of foreign Invaders.”

 It is time for us to stop arguing about whether or not Finicum was going for a gun.  That’s not the point.  The point is, we are tamely surrendering our liberties in modern day America.  Ignorance abounds, we are sinking under our own weight, and it is time for something to change.


I've heard of something like this happening before... It was in a movie called Mississippi Burning. Guess the FBI took notes when they investigated those killings then found ways to improve the crime. These people can afford drones but not body cams?
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