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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7551
   
Location: In The Land of Cotton | And FYI - Jason Hartley is reading this page.
And, as for me too, while I loved the product and while I love the minerals too, I will not support ADM until they have separate facililties. Which, would not be hard for me to see, as I only live 40 miles from the plant. I can also visit the Triple Crown facility in Valdosta GA, which is only 40 miles from me too.
Edited by 3canstorun 2015-02-10 10:25 AM
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 Expert
Posts: 5290
| CYA Ranch - 2015-02-10 7:39 AM
Bibliafarm - 2015-02-10 9:29 AM Mold is not the same as a company knowingly using medicated toxins that can kill a horse and damage a horses heart and yet doesnt make changes.. mold could be the feed store, could be the owners fault, could be many things contributing.. THIS issue is the feed companys lack of care..Â
What she said. My friend and I have both had problems getting moldy bagged feed at our local TSC, both Nutrena and Purina feeds. Its because its not rotated. When I find it I return it. In the summer with the heat and humidity my barn gets damp so I have to be careful of it molding in my barn. Â
This is why I keep all my grain INSIDE my house 24/7.. In a back room. lol I can air condition if need be to prevent feed from going bad. | |
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | Three 4 Luck - 2015-02-10 10:12 AM rachellyn80 - 2015-02-10 9:47 AM Three 4 Luck - 2015-02-10 8:14 AM I've got to buy feed today and am still confused about what to do. I obviously don't need to continue with ADM, but I don't like my other choices, which are Purina and Nutrena. I can get clean local oats and alfalfa pellets for the younger horses, but that doesn't help me with the oldies. What about Chaffhaye? My old mare did really well on it.
David Williams in Carlisle is shown as a dealer, but he's 83 miles from you. Several of our feedstores around here are carrying it. I didn't realize that it was so localized to this area....
http://www.chaffhaye.com/locate-a-dealer/ | |
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Veteran
Posts: 287
| This is the response I received from Thomas Moore feed for anyone who feeds it....not sure how I feel about this.......
We do make both cattle and horse feeds (as well as for other species). Because of the variety of feeds we make, and the differences in volume, it is not possible to devote mixers, mills, and equipment to horse feed only. However, we have practices and procedures for prevention of feed contamination. These protocols are used industry-wide as most feed manufacturers also lack the ability to designate specified equipment for horse feed only. These procedures that we use are standard across the industry and are in line with current Good Manufacturing Processes (cGMPs) as outlined by the Food and Drug Adminstration.
Anytime a medicated feed is made (not just monensin, but any medicated additive) there is a protocol in place for what type of feed may follow that in the system. It must be a feed approved for the use and species concerned. For example, if a cattle feed containing Bovatec is made, a horse feed cannot be the next feed made in the system. A nonmedicated feed must be made first in order to purge the mixer, auger, and bins of material from the previous batch. With higher risk contaminants, like monensin, an additional “flusing batch” will be made to purge the system of remaining feed immediately. The purging material is then added to the medicated batch and leaves the plant with it.
In instances in the U.S. when there has been a problem with monensin contamination in horse feed resulting in an acute case, it has been generally been due to a mixing error or mishandling of an additive. To prevent mixing errors, all of our medicated feed additives are weighed and added manually. The amounts of these additives that are used are logged and tracked on a daily basis and the physical inventory is checked against these logs every 24 hours.
I hope this information will alleviate your concerns and help to assure you of the safety of our feed. If you have any additional questions or concerns please do not hesitate to contact me at the numbers listed below.
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | 3canstorun - 2015-02-10 10:21 AM And FYI - Jason Hartley is reading this page.
And, as for me too, while I loved the product and while I love the minerals too, I will not support ADM until they have separate facililties. Which, would not be hard for me to see, as I only live 40 miles from the plant. I can also visit the Triple Crown facility in Valdosta GA, which is only 40 miles from me too.
I wish he would step in as you would expect a representative of a large company would and help to ease some fears and maybe even educate us a little on their processes. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1210
Location: Kansas | Everyone who is saying that they are thinking of switching from ADM horse feed to bagged oats now, that doesn't solve the problem. I've fed a grain mixture that I mix myself for years now. Two of those ingredients are oats and cracked corn that comes from ADM. Well do you know what they flush the system with between medicated batches and horse feed? OATS and CORN. I never knew about the effects of cattle feed and horse feed coming into contact with one another until this dibacle so this is terrifying! | |
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Expert
Posts: 5290
| NFRhereIcome27 - 2015-02-10 8:42 AM
This is the response I received from Thomas Moore feed for anyone who feeds it....not sure how I feel about this.......
We do make both cattle and horse feeds (as well as for other species). Because of the variety of feeds we make, and the differences in volume, it is not possible to devote mixers, mills, and equipment to horse feed only. However, we have practices and procedures for prevention of feed contamination. These protocols are used industry-wide as most feed manufacturers also lack the ability to designate specified equipment for horse feed only. These procedures that we use are standard across the industry and are in line with current Good Manufacturing Processes (cGMPs) as outlined by the Food and Drug Adminstration.
Anytime a medicated feed is made (not just monensin, but any medicated additive) there is a protocol in place for what type of feed may follow that in the system. It must be a feed approved for the use and species concerned. For example, if a cattle feed containing Bovatec is made, a horse feed cannot be the next feed made in the system. A nonmedicated feed must be made first in order to purge the mixer, auger, and bins of material from the previous batch. With higher risk contaminants, like monensin, an additional “flusing batch” will be made to purge the system of remaining feed immediately. The purging material is then added to the medicated batch and leaves the plant with it.
In instances in the U.S. when there has been a problem with monensin contamination in horse feed resulting in an acute case, it has been generally been due to a mixing error or mishandling of an additive. To prevent mixing errors, all of our medicated feed additives are weighed and added manually. The amounts of these additives that are used are logged and tracked on a daily basis and the physical inventory is checked against these logs every 24 hours.
I hope this information will alleviate your concerns and help to assure you of the safety of our feed. If you have any additional questions or concerns please do not hesitate to contact me at the numbers listed below.
Just seems to me that logic would dictate that no amount of " Flushing" will totally get 100% of Monesin out of a system. THere are just so many nooks and crannys in a mill. Correct? | |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | This is a Thesis that was written by a student at Kansas State. It's an excellent illustration of the process and the levels of drug carryover that you can expect along the way in the flushing/feed mixing process. I understand that it's a very long paper, but it's a very informational read and has tables toward the end that show the levels of monensin that were present in the supposed unmedicated feed.
http://krex.k-state.edu/dspace/bitstream/handle/2097/1025/AdrianMartinez-Kawas2008.pdf?sequence=1 | |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | rachellyn80 - 2015-02-10 10:42 AM Three 4 Luck - 2015-02-10 10:12 AM rachellyn80 - 2015-02-10 9:47 AM Three 4 Luck - 2015-02-10 8:14 AM I've got to buy feed today and am still confused about what to do. I obviously don't need to continue with ADM, but I don't like my other choices, which are Purina and Nutrena. I can get clean local oats and alfalfa pellets for the younger horses, but that doesn't help me with the oldies. What about Chaffhaye? My old mare did really well on it.
http://www.chaffhaye.com/locate-a-dealer/
Thanks for the link. This area is not exactly a hotbed for horse ownership, or any livestock, for that matter.  | |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | HarlanLivesOn - 2015-02-10 10:46 AM Everyone who is saying that they are thinking of switching from ADM horse feed to bagged oats now, that doesn't solve the problem. I've fed a grain mixture that I mix myself for years now. Two of those ingredients are oats and cracked corn that comes from ADM. Well do you know what they flush the system with between medicated batches and horse feed? OATS and CORN. I never knew about the effects of cattle feed and horse feed coming into contact with one another until this dibacle so this is terrifying!
I can get oats that are locally grown then cleaned and bagged at a seed cleaner that does not make feed of any kind. Theirs are way cleaner than any of the branded oats I've ever used, even the supposedly triple cleaned racehorse oats. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | I stopped reading the post after page 6 or 7 I believe. But I wanted to update on Ametza:
Their reply to my asking if their products are made with Monensin or any other form of the toxin was this:
"Thank you for your question! All of our pellets are made from premium hays. We do not produce any other type of ruminant feed, so you can be assured there is no trace of monensin in our pellets.
Please feel free to contact us if you have any other questions or concerns.
Best regards,
Nereida Quevedo"
I believe that means my bermuda pellets I am feeding my two are good. Forgot to update a few weeks ago, sorry guys  | |
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 Regular
Posts: 63
| HarlanLivesOn - 2015-02-10 10:46 AM
Everyone who is saying that they are thinking of switching from ADM horse feed to bagged oats now, that doesn't solve the problem. I've fed a grain mixture that I mix myself for years now. Two of those ingredients are oats and cracked corn that comes from ADM. Well do you know what they flush the system with between medicated batches and horse feed? OATS and CORN. I never knew about the effects of cattle feed and horse feed coming into contact with one another until this dibacle so this is terrifying!
It is not the same for every mill. Read the comment above from ADM on what feeds follow medicated feeds. And they can have practices in place but if they are not followed it really is only smoke. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 490
| rachellyn80 - 2015-02-10 10:42 AM
Three 4 Luck - 2015-02-10 10:12 AM rachellyn80 - 2015-02-10 9:47 AM Three 4 Luck - 2015-02-10 8:14 AM Â I've got to buy feed today and am still confused about what to do. Â I obviously don't need to continue with ADM, but I don't like my other choices, which are Purina and Nutrena. Â I can get clean local oats and alfalfa pellets for the younger horses, but that doesn't help me with the oldies. What about Chaffhaye? Â My old mare did really well on it.Â
 http://www.chaffhaye.com/locate-a-dealer/
Ive been feeding Chaffhay for about a year now. LOVE IT!!!!! I feed 3 bags a week to 6 horses. We buy it by the pallet and split with a friend.
This stuff is the bomb! Im hoping by feeding this and renew gold my horses will be happy. | |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Three 4 Luck - 2015-02-10 9:30 AM want2chase3 - 2015-02-10 8:37 AM Three 4 Luck - 2015-02-10 8:14 AM I've got to buy feed today and am still confused about what to do. I obviously don't need to continue with ADM, but I don't like my other choices, which are Purina and Nutrena. I can get clean local oats and alfalfa pellets for the younger horses, but that doesn't help me with the oldies. What about feeding the oats and alfalfa pellets and adding in a vit/min supplement geared towards seniors?
I understand how you feel but sometimes we just have to do what is best for our horse. With all the heat they are getting I would say they have 2 choices...change their milling practices or take a huge hit in profits.
Triple Crown had a consistency problem with one of their mills that would be MN on the bags. After enough complaints, they no longer use that mill. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1694
Location: Willows, CA | Someone asked about MaxE Glo Stabilized Rice Bran earlier. That is food grade stabilized rice bran. Manna Pro sells it in both a meal form and pelleted. It all starts as a meal form. It is human food grade and is made in a plant that does not make any medicated products of any kind. It is my understanding that it is then shipped out to be pelletized for that version of the product. I do not know where that happens, but people do not eat pellets, so that process would be in a feed plant. You could call Manna Pro and ask where that pelleting process takes place, but the original meal form is absolutely no problem. | |
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Regular
Posts: 63
| winwillows - 2015-02-10 12:49 PM
Someone asked about MaxE Glo Stabilized Rice Bran earlier. That is food grade stabilized rice bran. Manna Pro sells it in both a meal form and pelleted. It all starts as a meal form. It is human food grade and is made in a plant that does not make any medicated products of any kind. It is my understanding that it is then shipped out to be pelletized for that version of the product. I do not know where that happens, but people do not eat pellets, so that process would be in a feed plant. You could call Manna Pro and ask where that pelleting process takes place, but the original meal form is absolutely no problem.
You do understand that rice bran is run through a grinder at a mill, right? But it is great news to know that it is food safe and in a plant without meds. The question is are they buying in already in bran form, if so, that could be contaminated in theory upon arrival at their facility. | |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Nevertooold - 2015-02-10 1:46 PM Three 4 Luck - 2015-02-10 9:30 AM want2chase3 - 2015-02-10 8:37 AM Three 4 Luck - 2015-02-10 8:14 AM I've got to buy feed today and am still confused about what to do. I obviously don't need to continue with ADM, but I don't like my other choices, which are Purina and Nutrena. I can get clean local oats and alfalfa pellets for the younger horses, but that doesn't help me with the oldies. What about feeding the oats and alfalfa pellets and adding in a vit/min supplement geared towards seniors?
Triple Crown had a consistency problem with one of their mills that would be MN on the bags. After enough complaints, they no longer use that mill.
Edited by Bibliafarm 2015-02-10 1:26 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1694
Location: Willows, CA | Zebra racer - 2015-02-10 1:11 PM
winwillows - 2015-02-10 12:49 PM
Someone asked about MaxE Glo Stabilized Rice Bran earlier. That is food grade stabilized rice bran. Manna Pro sells it in both a meal form and pelleted. It all starts as a meal form. It is human food grade and is made in a plant that does not make any medicated products of any kind. It is my understanding that it is then shipped out to be pelletized for that version of the product. I do not know where that happens, but people do not eat pellets, so that process would be in a feed plant. You could call Manna Pro and ask where that pelleting process takes place, but the original meal form is absolutely no problem.
You do understand that rice bran is run through a grinder at a mill, right? But it is great news to know that it is food safe and in a plant without meds. The question is are they buying in already in bran form, if so, that could be contaminated in theory upon arrival at their facility.
Stabilized Rice Bran is handled differently than raw rice bran at the rice mill. The milling process grinds the bran off of the rice kernel. This is the difference between brown rice (still has the bran on it), and white rice (no bran remaining) otherwise it is the same rice. After stabilizing the bran that is intended for the food market, there is no further grinding or processing. Raw bran goes a different direction in the mill and is treated as a waste product. That has always been the risk of feeding raw bran. It is both rancid, and has the potential for mold and animal waste contamination. In horse products, if it does not say "stabilized rice bran" in the ingredient list, it is most likely raw. In either case, there is no risk of medication contamination at the rice mill. Where it is processed after that may be a different matter. | |
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Regular
Posts: 63
| winwillows - 2015-02-10 2:53 PM
Zebra racer - 2015-02-10 1:11 PM
winwillows - 2015-02-10 12:49 PM
Someone asked about MaxE Glo Stabilized Rice Bran earlier. That is food grade stabilized rice bran. Manna Pro sells it in both a meal form and pelleted. It all starts as a meal form. It is human food grade and is made in a plant that does not make any medicated products of any kind. It is my understanding that it is then shipped out to be pelletized for that version of the product. I do not know where that happens, but people do not eat pellets, so that process would be in a feed plant. You could call Manna Pro and ask where that pelleting process takes place, but the original meal form is absolutely no problem.
You do understand that rice bran is run through a grinder at a mill, right? But it is great news to know that it is food safe and in a plant without meds. The question is are they buying in already in bran form, if so, that could be contaminated in theory upon arrival at their facility.
Stabilized Rice Bran is handled differently than raw rice bran at the rice mill. The milling process grinds the bran off of the rice kernel. This is the difference between brown rice (still has the bran on it ), and white rice (no bran remaining ) otherwise it is the same rice. After stabilizing the bran that is intended for the food market, there is no further grinding or processing. Raw bran goes a different direction in the mill and is treated as a waste product. That has always been the risk of feeding raw bran. It is both rancid, and has the potential for mold and animal waste contamination. In horse products, if it does not say "stabilized rice bran" in the ingredient list, it is most likely raw. In either case, there is no risk of medication contamination at the rice mill. Where it is processed after that may be a different matter.
It is brought in as rice at any mill USA and ground in to rice meal. From there it may be sold, bagged or used in mixes. If they grind rice that at Manna Pro and then stabilize it, that is great. If not, as it is in other mills, it does not guarantee it hasn't gone thru the same augers and grinders as medicated mixes.
I wonder if the stabilization aka heating process kills the ionophores if they were present? Just curious. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1694
Location: Willows, CA | It is brought in as rice at any mill USA and ground in to rice meal. From there it may be sold, bagged or used in mixes. If they grind rice that at Manna Pro and then stabilize it, that is great. If not, as it is in other mills, it does not guarantee it hasn't gone thru the same augers and grinders as medicated mixes.
You are talking about two different ingredients here. Rice bran and ground brown or white rice meal are not the same thing. Rice bran is only the outer bran layer that is milled off of the rice kernel, leaving the white starch which is white rice. Rice meal is when the entire kernel is ground up. Rice meal is not stabilized unless it is sold to the bakery industry as brown rice flour. In that case, the rice bran is removed and stabilized, then it is added back to ground white rice flour to make a whole grain rice flour. At any rate, Stabilized Rice Bran (SRB) has the same opportunity to be contaminated as any other feed ingredient if blended in a feed mill. If it is sold as Stabilized Rice Bran in a meal form that is packaged at the rice mill where it was made and stabilized, there is no risk of contamination from medications that are used in the feed industry. My comment was aimed at the question of safety related to MaxE Glo which, in meal form at least, is packaged at the rice mill where is was made. I have no association with MaxE Glo other than to answer that specific question based on my experience with SRB and the fact that I invented and developed it's use in the equine market. Heat will not denature medication contamination in SRB.
Edited by winwillows 2015-02-10 5:10 PM
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