appycowgirl - 2013-07-07 12:30 PM When people are asking about bloodlines in the barrel horses, we just aren't quite sure as we don't have a ton of positive pedigrees to try to figure out possible sources. I have my suspicions of some lines like the mare FL Lady Bug an I have suspected Moon Deck. I'm not sure how many people are familiar with the mare Ms Wahini Bug? She, herself is positive for PSSM and has 3 foals out there that I know of, Ms Shoo Bug, Ms Perky Bug and Wahini Cash that are positive for PSSM. This mare goes back onto those lines that I suspect. Then, I also know of 2 positive horses from the stallion AR Star and he also goes back onto that Moon Deck and FL Lady Bug line and then on the PSSM Forum we had another barrel horse reported as positive and it was through his sire as the dam tested negative and that sire goes back on Moon Deck. The University of MN did pedigree research and listed the initials of EC, SDB and PI. We believe the EC to be Eddie Cinco, the SDB to be Sonny Dee Bar and PI to be Pretty Impressive. With the positive pedigrees that we have on the Forum, which is over 250, these names have definitely shown up in many of the positives when it comes to QHs, Paints and Apps. Now, in the Apps, the stallion Dreamfinder is a major suspect as we have numerous sons and daughters and ancestors of his that are coming up positive. Now, for Dreamfinder, he goes back on a stallion named Roan Hancock who is appearing in numerous positive pedigrees and seems to be the main player in the foundation QHs that are turning up positive. Personally, I do not suspect Joe Hancock himself as there are several other horses with him in their pedigree that are NOT coming up positive, so we suspect that the PSSM probably came through on his dam. Now, with mentioning Roan Hancock, we have had numerous positives show up that have Two Eyed Jack in their pedigree. I will say that both the Pitzer Ranch manager's wife along with other numerous TEJ owners do not believe that he is not the PSSM problem and they think it is the mares instead that he was bred to. Now, there was a lady who did talk to the ranch manager's wife and she did state that they were breeding P1/P1 mares to their studs that are n/P1 and they do list those positive studs on their website and have listed them in their catalouges. I highly commend Pitzer Ranch for being open and honest on their stud's statuses. Back here about a month or so ago, I had a lady who shared with me a 199 page dissertation that was written by Dr. Molly McCue and on page 77 it states that most of their PSSM1 positive horses in the research herd, went back onto the stallion WRD and he went back to YJ. Now, we believe that WRD stands for Waggoners Rainy Day and of course he goes back on Yellow Jacket. Back about a year or so ago, several of the folks on the PSSM Forum, who have been studying these positive pedigrees came out with the thoughts that most of this is coming from three horses, which of course has been mentioned before from the researchers. Those 3 horses are Yellow Jacket, Yellow Wolf and Midnight and all 3 of these horses goes back on the mare Mittie Stephens. Lately, we have started to have positive pedigrees that have been reported that don't have SDB, PI, EC or even Roan Hancock, but they definitely have one or two or even all 3 of those three suspects that many people on the Forum feel are sources. The main thing in all of this is that every time we look at any of these pedigrees prior to them being tested, we can see where there is a chance for the horse to test out positive, so the biggest thing is to get people educated about PSSM and to get folks to request testing before purchasing or breeding to someone's stud and to test their mares as well. Right now, the researchers state that anywhere between 6 to 12% of the QH and QH related breeds are positive for PSSM and out of that, anywhere between 90 to 75% are positive for PSSM Type 1 and the other 10 to 25% are positive for Type 2. So, it is just best to DNA test and know and if you are having problems with your horse and it does come back negative for Type 1, have your vet do a blood panel and have them specifically test the CK and AST levels. If those are elevated, your next step would be to do a muscle biopsy to check for Type 2.

annemarea - 2013-07-07 4:06 PM Barnmom, 

I asked the exact same question since I had been keeping them dry lotted. The vet at LSU could not answer it and my email to the University went unanswered. Not sure what the answer is!



I can try to send another email asking the lady that mailed my results to me and see if I get a response.

OregonBR - 2013-07-07 4:15 PM

Thanks for all the information. Great thread!  

Barnmom - 2013-07-07 4:20 PM


Thanks!

I am going to at least have my mare tested for PSSM1, from her pedigree it sure looks like she may be positive for it.  Take a look at Slash J Harletta on allbreed, that mare goes back to Mittie Stephens about six times.  Not trying to pick on that mare (SJH) since she is one of the best producers in this industry but certainly something to keep in mind. 

Thanks so much for this post!  I knew there was something going on with my mare and she is way too nice to give up on.  Maybe if I can get her feed program right she will quit trying to randomly launch me out of the saddle.  Just switching her from a COB mix to Ultium has made a huge change.  I may have to suck it up and drylot her as much as I hate to. Probably need to look for sugar free cookies too, she would hate me if she didn't get her cookies, LOL.

 

appycowgirl - 2013-07-07 12:30 PM

When people are asking about bloodlines in the barrel horses, we just aren't quite sure as we don't have a ton of positive pedigrees to try to figure out possible sources. I have my suspicions of some lines like the mare FL Lady Bug an I have suspected Moon Deck.

I'm not sure how many people are familiar with the mare Ms Wahini Bug? She, herself is positive for PSSM and has 3 foals out there that I know of, Ms Shoo Bug, Ms Perky Bug and Wahini Cash that are positive for PSSM. This mare goes back onto those lines that I suspect. Then, I also know of 2 positive horses from the stallion AR Star and he also goes back onto that Moon Deck and FL Lady Bug line and then on the PSSM Forum we had another barrel horse reported as positive and it was through his sire as the dam tested negative and that sire goes back on Moon Deck.

The University of MN did pedigree research and listed the initials of EC, SDB and PI. We believe the EC to be Eddie Cinco, the SDB to be Sonny Dee Bar and PI to be Pretty Impressive. With the positive pedigrees that we have on the Forum, which is over 250, these names have definitely shown up in many of the positives when it comes to QHs, Paints and Apps. Now, in the Apps, the stallion Dreamfinder is a major suspect as we have numerous sons and daughters and ancestors of his that are coming up positive.

Now, for Dreamfinder, he goes back on a stallion named Roan Hancock who is appearing in numerous positive pedigrees and seems to be the main player in the foundation QHs that are turning up positive. Personally, I do not suspect Joe Hancock himself as there are several other horses with him in their pedigree that are NOT coming up positive, so we suspect that the PSSM probably came through on his dam.

Now, with mentioning Roan Hancock, we have had numerous positives show up that have Two Eyed Jack in their pedigree. I will say that both the Pitzer Ranch manager's wife along with other numerous TEJ owners do not believe that he is not the PSSM problem and they think it is the mares instead that he was bred to. Now, there was a lady who did talk to the ranch manager's wife and she did state that they were breeding P1/P1 mares to their studs that are n/P1 and they do list those positive studs on their website and have listed them in their catalouges. I highly commend Pitzer Ranch for being open and honest on their stud's statuses.

Back here about a month or so ago, I had a lady who shared with me a 199 page dissertation that was written by Dr. Molly McCue and on page 77 it states that most of their PSSM1 positive horses in the research herd, went back onto the stallion WRD and he went back to YJ. Now, we believe that WRD stands for Waggoners Rainy Day and of course he goes back on Yellow Jacket.

Back about a year or so ago, several of the folks on the PSSM Forum, who have been studying these positive pedigrees came out with the thoughts that most of this is coming from three horses, which of course has been mentioned before from the researchers. Those 3 horses are Yellow Jacket, Yellow Wolf and Midnight and all 3 of these horses goes back on the mare Mittie Stephens.

Lately, we have started to have positive pedigrees that have been reported that don't have SDB, PI, EC or even Roan Hancock, but they definitely have one or two or even all 3 of those three suspects that many people on the Forum feel are sources.

The main thing in all of this is that every time we look at any of these pedigrees prior to them being tested, we can see where there is a chance for the horse to test out positive, so the biggest thing is to get people educated about PSSM and to get folks to request testing before purchasing or breeding to someone's stud and to test their mares as well.

Right now, the researchers state that anywhere between 6 to 12% of the QH and QH related breeds are positive for PSSM and out of that, anywhere between 90 to 75% are positive for PSSM Type 1 and the other 10 to 25% are positive for Type 2.
So, it is just best to DNA test and know and if you are having problems with your horse and it does come back negative for Type 1, have your vet do a blood panel and have them specifically test the CK and AST levels. If those are elevated, your next step would be to do a muscle biopsy to check for Type 2.

Barnmom - 2013-07-08 4:21 PM How much does the muscle biopsy run and is it a painful deal for your horse?

Also, can I just go through the local extension agent for hay testing or do I need to go somewhere more specialized? 

We feed peanut hay, similar to alfalfa, but I would feel better knowing exactly what is in it since we feed out of the same field year round.