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  Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
   
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | I must be the only person on the planet that does not like how the martin saddles are designed to sit on a horses back. But then I'm no expert by any means. Just personal preference...... |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| jojammer - 2014-02-07 7:51 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-02-07 6:14 PM
jojammer - 2014-02-07 2:46 PM
I talked to Brian last night, apparently they have come up with a new saddle, the FX3 I believe. I thought I might try a crown c but after looking at the 3 saddles on their site, I won't know which seat I'll like until I sit in em, so I'm driving down there maybe.
I think this about the shim thing though.
Take a strip of sock and lay it over the arch of your foot. Lace your shoes up. I'm not saying it will cause damage, but to me, that would be so uncomfortable to feel that edge digging in. Do the shims have tapered edges?
On a horse with a dip and big shoulders, a saddle with a lot of flair will help allow the shoulders to move without pushing the saddle back every time the shoulder blade moves. If you go too wide or too flat, the saddle might just keep falling back in that hole behind the shoulders. I've had a horse like this, and I went through probably 5 or 6 saddles before finding one.
My horses are all young and have never had I'll fitting saddles on so they don't have a dip.
A horse with an ill fitting saddle that is causing pressure in the other area. With the excess pressure it is cutting off blood circulation therefore killing muscle cells, eventually the horse will experience muscle atrophy, this is the dips behind the shoulder.
With a Martin, their bars are 100 degrees, they increase the gullet size to make the bars wider apart to fit the wide backed horses.
With the crown c you fit the saddle with the shims. You feel underneath the saddle and underneath the shims to ensure there are no pressure points. So I don't think your arch philosophy applies.
And yes the shims are tapered.
It does on this horse. If you had a wide enough gullet for his big shoulders and didn't have the flair in front or the rock in the bars, there would be probably a 3-4 inch gap between his back and the saddle. My entire forearm would fit in there. I have no idea how many shims or what kind of pad could fill that. He had some atrophy, yes, but in this case, that's not what caused the shape of his entire back. Even with his back squared up and being fit, it just is what it is, curvy.
Now the horse I have now, he's pretty narrow, withers are medium to low. Back is very very square and flat across the top. So it's funny that he has a square back but narrow body because a lot of trees are either wide gullets with angled bars for more cow horse type backs, or they are narrow and have a lot of rock and twist for racier types. So far, I haven't found a fit. At first, what I've read about Martin was great. The more I read about it throwing the rider forward is scaring me off.
My understanding is they can customize the Martin racer which is made for the person to sit more on their pockets instead of the crotch like the crown c.
Myself I haven't had the saddle tip me forward, but one other thing that can make a person be tipped forward is the horse dumping on their front end. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1092
Location: OK | I tried to search for the new saddle Brian talked about, but it's not even on their site at all... Boo. He asked me about how I like to sit the turn. I hate to lean back and I hate to sit straight up. I guess I kinda sit straight down. That's when he mentioned the new saddle, and I said I'm just driving down there. I love the Caldwells, but from what I've heard, ordering a new one is no fun, and I hate to buy a used one not knowing if it will fit. |
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 Big Gun
Posts: 2216
Location: Texas | Sounds like to me they realize there's a problem, hence the new modification |
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Big Gun
Posts: 2216
Location: Texas | I was told the bars are the same on the racer and crown c |
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 I Love My Mares!
Posts: 1613
Location: Moved to Montana | I have a crown C it ihas never thrown me forward, but a lot of saddles get my feet in front of me or make me feel like I am hovering way above my horse. The C gives me a close ride and I like it, but it would be important to ride ant type to make sure it fits your body type and ridding style before you buy. Just like we dont all fit the same brand of jean we are going to need different things from a saddle. On the gullet I do think a lot of people get extrawide saddles when really the saddle is to wide and falling down on the horses back to far causing a pressure point. Just because there is a tight spot especially at the top of the bar, wider may not be the solution. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 733
| missroselee - 2014-02-08 6:18 PM
I must be the only person on the planet that does not like how the martin saddles are designed to sit on a horses back. But then I'm no expert by any means. Just personal preference......
I had a Crown C, it just never seemed to fit right so I put a bare Martin tree on my horse and saw why. Had nothing to do with the Gullet, sold my Crown C bought a Coats and haven't looked back. I can't even begin to tell you the difference in my horse between a Crown C and a Coats. So long story short I agree with you LOL |
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Member
Posts: 15
| My advice would be to call Martin saddlery and ask them. If you get in contact with the saddle shop you will get your questions answered and be able to make decisions from there. It will then either make sense to you or it will not. It's free information apart from the cost of the phone call. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2049
Location: Utah | I've been riding Martin saddles for the last 7 years, minus the couple of times I tried other saddles ( but always came back, lol). None of my saddles are the new gullet way of measuring and I saddle like I always have and have had great luck with my saddles. I will say though I didn't like my crown c, I felt like I was sitting on my crotchet and I like to sit on my pockets. After numerous times talking to Brian he told me the Martin Racer would be a better fit. I was able to find one used, and get it quickly and it has been a great saddle and a much better fit for me. I also have 2 of the older original Cervi saddles I love. |
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 Angel in a Sorrel Coat
Posts: 16030
Location: In a happy place | missroselee - 2014-02-07 7:18 PM I must be the only person on the planet that does not like how the martin saddles are designed to sit on a horses back. But then I'm no expert by any means. Just personal preference......
No you are not the only one. I am right there with you. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 254
Location: Kaufman, Texas | I love mine! My horse has a short back and the two other saddles didn't work. Had a Piland first, when I didn't set it right it hit his shoulder muscle. The LM Special sat too far back. The Crown C fits perfect! I have a 7 inch gullet. He has a tendency to get low on front end when turning, I stay right in the middle of him, not scared I'm going to fling off anymore. I just lucked out finding this saddle. I've had almost every saddle trying to find one for another horse years ago. Saddle Drama ugh! No fun! |
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Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | sorrel horse ranch - 2014-02-08 10:44 AM missroselee - 2014-02-07 7:18 PM I must be the only person on the planet that does not like how the martin saddles are designed to sit on a horses back. But then I'm no expert by any means. Just personal preference...... No you are not the only one. I am right there with you.
For me it's just painful to look at. Beautiful saddles, but..... |
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 Queen Bee Cat Owner
Posts: 3629
Location: Way up North | Everyone has different preferences on saddles and what will and will not work for them. I, personally, absolutely love the way my Crown C rides and how it fits my horse. Is it perfect? Nope, not at all. But I have been able to obtain a much better fit and feel than anything else I have ever tried and I have tried a lot. I have also looked at a lot of horses backs since learning more about saddle fit and without a doubt my horse's back looks much healthier than the majority of the horses I see out there. No matter what anyone ever tells me, no saddle will fit every horse or ever rider out there just like one pair of shoes will not fit all the people out there. It's just plain not possible. I am very grateful Martin if willing and able to give a vartiety of options for trees and gullet widths for those of us that believe in using them.
So, if you like it and you can get a good fit on your horse, use it. If you don't, don't. |
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| Do any other Martin saddles (ie. rope saddles) have these wide gullets?
It seems to me these are only marketed to barrel racers. Why? There are a lot of stout horses in other disciplines. |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | Dashing04 - 2014-02-08 6:25 PM Do any other Martin saddles (ie. rope saddles) have these wide gullets?
It seems to me these are only marketed to barrel racers. Why? There are a lot of stout horses in other disciplines.
I'm wondering this as well. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1196
Location: Wide open spaces, Canada. | missroselee - 2014-02-07 7:18 PM
I must be the only person on the planet that does not like how the martin saddles are designed to sit on a horses back. But then I'm no expert by any means. Just personal preference......
You are not the only one . There is a reason there are so many for sale. This fad will end eventually . |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
| I think it's a fad. I spent 3200 on mine and HATED it. Hated. HAAAATED. Lol. Threw me forward on 3 different horses. Sold that thing quicker than Obummer lies. |
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 Northern Exposure
Posts: 3919
Location: Wasagaming, Manitoba, Canada | I disagree they are a fad.
I have seen a huge change in my horses (and the many I have seen fit). It's made me a believer.
For anyone interested they need to talk to Brian and Tracy , they are a wealth of info.
Fitting and shimmimg etc. is work. You do have to check fit regularily as the muscle fills out. It's not for everyone. I get that. The results I've had personally and the horses I have seen - has made it worth it for me.
We have ordered a wider gullet for our rope horses. There are ropers out there ordering them.
Edited by BBKitamanCutter 2014-02-08 9:45 PM
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 Transplant Okie
Posts: 1206
Location: Always on call..... | Snappy - 2014-02-08 8:58 AM I've been riding Martin saddles for the last 7 years, minus the couple of times I tried other saddles ( but always came back, lol). None of my saddles are the new gullet way of measuring and I saddle like I always have and have had great luck with my saddles. I will say though I didn't like my crown c, I felt like I was sitting on my crotchet and I like to sit on my pockets. After numerous times talking to Brian he told me the Martin Racer would be a better fit. I was able to find one used, and get it quickly and it has been a great saddle and a much better fit for me. I also have 2 of the older original Cervi saddles I love.
I'm with you - I've decided Martin is the saddle for me after trying numerous other brands. I love the way they fit my horses and the way I sit in them. That being said, I don't like the Crown C, it doesn't fit my riding style at all. I am also on the fence about the super wide gullet widths and needing to shim.
The whole concept of muscle atrophy from narrow saddles makes sense to me and I agree there may be a time when you would need to shim if you are switching to a Martin. But I don't like the idea of having to shim forever. In my opiniom the bar angles are equally important as the gullet widths to saddle fit.
Both of my Martins (a Racer and an older Dale Martin Ironhorse) are the standard gullet widths and between the two of them they fit all of my horses good with some slight variation in which pad I use. I would like to get another Racer with a 7.5" gullet width and then I think I would be set for any horse I would buy. LOL. |
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Queen Bee Cat Owner
Posts: 3629
Location: Way up North | Saying it's a fad is like saying any saddle is a fad because every single one has their own particular tree that they believe in and use; just like Martin only Martin chooses to have more options than most.
Are Caldwell's a fad as well? They have a vartiety of trees and *gasp* even in wider gullets.
There are many, many pros out there using the saddles and winning lots and lots of money on lots and lots of horses and have been for several years. Pray tell how long does it take a fad to go out? I think this is a trend we will continue to see in the future.
As far as wider gullets in other Martin's, yes they have them. Several NFR steer wrestlers and ropers have the Martin's in different gullets it just seems to have taken off with the barrel racers faster because most are very fanatical on saddle fit and taking care of their horse. |
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