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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
  
Location: PNW | LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 1:19 PM
svincent - 2014-01-20 11:29 AM
casualdust07 - 2014-01-20 11:56 AM
Runnin < C > - 2014-01-20 11:53 AM
svincent - 2014-01-20 11:41 AM LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 11:32 AM Reading threw these posts confuse me. A Paint is a COLOR not a BREED...... Just like Palominos....a color not a breed.... False... The American Paint Horse IS A BREED. Palomino is a color, buckskin is a color, dun is a color, brown is a color. Paint is a breed. A breed is any group of animals with a homogenous, regular phenotype/genotype. If you breed two paints, you are going to get a paint (exceptions for the crop out/plain marked ) - if you breed two palominos, you might get one, you might not. There are crop out QHs also that have "excessive white" - there are the oddballs in every group - but I assure you, the APH is most definitely its own specific breed. Correct, Paint is a breed. Not a color.
which is why they allow solid paints to be registered… LOL.
Exactly.lol
Hmm, I still don't agree...if you have two quarter horses, you breed them and you get a colored horse...what is the horse? If you have two Arabians you breed them and you get a colored horse, what is the horse? I guess I just don't see a "paint" as a breed. I see it as a color....I understand that the AQHA won't register a horse of color thus the APHA was formed...
Technically you call a horse with paint markings, no matter what breed, a pinto. Paint markings can show up anywhere, you are correct. But it is the exception, not the rule. Just like with paints - color is the rule, not the exception. Paints are paints because of their DNA, not just their color. Which like a PP said, is why they allow cropout non-colored horses to be registered. It's science.
The argument that you can get a cropout colored horse from any breed is a bit silly.
If I breed two bulldog QHs and end up with a long legged tall thing with a low back - I won't/can't register it as a TB. If I breed a roman-nosed QH and end up with a dish-faced foal - I'm not going to get it into the Arab register.
Breed is determined by genes, not outward appearance. QH and Paints are separate breeds on the molecular level - even though they may appear very similar to the eye. There are dominant and recessive genes that when bred to the right match, can show up or not show up accordingly.
Another example is with dogs. Borer Collies are famously black and white or red and white. Just because other breeds of dogs can have these same colors, doesn't take away the fact that a border collie is a breed in its own right.
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
 
| LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 1:19 PM
svincent - 2014-01-20 11:29 AM
casualdust07 - 2014-01-20 11:56 AM
Runnin < C > - 2014-01-20 11:53 AM
svincent - 2014-01-20 11:41 AM LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 11:32 AM Reading threw these posts confuse me. A Paint is a COLOR not a BREED...... Just like Palominos....a color not a breed.... False... The American Paint Horse IS A BREED. Palomino is a color, buckskin is a color, dun is a color, brown is a color. Paint is a breed. A breed is any group of animals with a homogenous, regular phenotype/genotype. If you breed two paints, you are going to get a paint (exceptions for the crop out/plain marked ) - if you breed two palominos, you might get one, you might not. There are crop out QHs also that have "excessive white" - there are the oddballs in every group - but I assure you, the APH is most definitely its own specific breed. Correct, Paint is a breed. Not a color.
which is why they allow solid paints to be registered… LOL.
Exactly.lol
Hmm, I still don't agree...if you have two quarter horses, you breed them and you get a colored horse...what is the horse? If you have two Arabians you breed them and you get a colored horse, what is the horse? I guess I just don't see a "paint" as a breed. I see it as a color....I understand that the AQHA won't register a horse of color thus the APHA was formed...
I believe if you breed 2 Arabians and got coloured, they would still be registered Arabian color would be pinto | |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | cheryl makofka - 2014-01-20 1:33 PM
LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 1:19 PM
svincent - 2014-01-20 11:29 AM
casualdust07 - 2014-01-20 11:56 AM
Runnin < C > - 2014-01-20 11:53 AM
svincent - 2014-01-20 11:41 AM LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 11:32 AM Reading threw these posts confuse me. A Paint is a COLOR not a BREED...... Just like Palominos....a color not a breed.... False... The American Paint Horse IS A BREED. Palomino is a color, buckskin is a color, dun is a color, brown is a color. Paint is a breed. A breed is any group of animals with a homogenous, regular phenotype/genotype. If you breed two paints, you are going to get a paint (exceptions for the crop out/plain marked ) - if you breed two palominos, you might get one, you might not. There are crop out QHs also that have "excessive white" - there are the oddballs in every group - but I assure you, the APH is most definitely its own specific breed. Correct, Paint is a breed. Not a color.
which is why they allow solid paints to be registered… LOL.
Exactly.lol
Hmm, I still don't agree...if you have two quarter horses, you breed them and you get a colored horse...what is the horse? If you have two Arabians you breed them and you get a colored horse, what is the horse? I guess I just don't see a "paint" as a breed. I see it as a color....I understand that the AQHA won't register a horse of color thus the APHA was formed...
I believe if you breed 2 Arabians and got coloured, they would still be registered Arabian color would be pinto
YES! | |
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| APHA has done everything they can to cut their own throats and therefore I do not breed any paints anymore !!
The entire Paint Journal is dedicated to Halter and Western Pleasure shows and their judges for years would only look at qh bred paints with minimal white with no horses showing color at any of their shows ....
Just read the nonsense they use to keep solid colored horses out of paint competition in other events including racing and the newly formed PBRIP ....
The executive secretaries of APHA have come from the appy horse club after they ruined it with their color requirements and many other non horse owner type of rules and requirements. They are doing a fantastic job of destroying APHA right now!!
Reading the APHA RULE BOOK is just like threading thru the mess of rules and regulations for OBAMACARE ...
As a paint breeder even with every horse in the pedigree having regular registry ... you stand a chance of having solid colored foals 40% of the time ... this is data from APHA annual registry!! A breeder cannot take the low price hit over and over again since APHA disallows solids to compete in the open classes along with other colored paints and form races and restrict races on solids. Yet they allow crop out qh's to be registered and sire solid colored foals .. i.e. ... out of the top 5 racing sires ... 4 are cropout quarter horses and Judys Lineage is the only one that is a legit paint ... and then APHA comes along and demands colored horses in the big money races and boots the solids out as if they were step children ...
Click on this link for the PRIP rules and scroll down to WHAT ARE THE RULES and read the requirements for you to receive any of the side pot monies riding a paint ... it is the same nonsense they applied to racing and they can't fill a 10 horse field now with the current rules which takes purse money away from the paint races ... APHA is in desperation and trying to up their membership by attacking the barrel races ... kick them out of barrels until they get APHA running without all the restrictions ...
keep your barrel associations free from any restrictions where grade, solid paints, ponies or you name it can run in the opens and major races where the money is!!
http://apha.com/pbrip
The fix is very easy .... if your horse is registered a paint regardless if it is solid or colored it should have full access to compete in the open classes full bore without being restricted if it is solid. IF IT IS REGISTERED A PAINT ... IT IS A PAINT !! SHOULD BE THE RULE...
Lot of information on this link to verify anything I have stated above and a lot more you need to know before you try to hang me ... lol ...
http://www.apha.com/breed/solidpaint-bred
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8555
Location: sunny california | BARRELHORSE USA - 2014-01-20 11:43 AM APHA has done everything they can to cut their own throats and therefore I do not breed any paints anymore !! The entire Paint Journal is dedicated to Halter and Western Pleasure shows and their judges for years would only look at qh bred paints with minimal white with no horses showing color at any of their shows .... Just read the nonsense they use to keep solid colored horses out of paint competition in other events including racing and the newly formed PBRIP .... The executive secretaries of APHA have come from the appy horse club after they ruined it with their color requirements and many other non horse owner type of rules and requirements. They are doing a fantastic job of destroying APHA right now!! Reading the APHA RULE BOOK is just like threading thru the mess of rules and regulations for OBAMACARE ... As a paint breeder even with every horse in the pedigree having regular registry ... you stand a chance of having solid colored foals 40% of the time ... this is data from APHA annual registry!! A breeder cannot take the low price hit over and over again since APHA disallows solids to compete in the open classes along with other colored paints and form races and restrict races on solids. Yet they allow crop out qh's to be registered and sire solid colored foals .. i.e. ... out of the top 5 racing sires ... 4 are cropout quarter horses and Judys Lineage is the only one that is a legit paint ... and then APHA comes along and demands colored horses in the big money races and boots the solids out as if they were step children ... Click on this link for the PRIP rules and scroll down to WHAT ARE THE RULES and read the requirements for you to receive any of the side pot monies riding a paint ... it is the same nonsense they applied to racing and they can't fill a 10 horse field now with the current rules which takes purse money away from the paint races ... APHA is in desperation and trying to up their membership by attacking the barrel races ... kick them out of barrels until they get APHA running without all the restrictions ... keep your barrel associations free from any restrictions where grade, solid paints, ponies or you name it can run in the opens and major races where the money is!! http://apha.com/pbrip The fix is very easy .... if your horse is registered a paint regardless if it is solid or colored it should have full access to compete in the open classes full bore without being restricted if it is solid. IF IT IS REGISTERED A PAINT ... IT IS A PAINT !! SHOULD BE THE RULE... Lot of information on this link to verify anything I have stated above and a lot more you need to know before you try to hang me ... lol ... http://www.apha.com/breed/solidpaint-bred
I agree with a lot here. barrels is a speed event and restricting it to colored horses is stupid. if 40% turn out solid then those horses should have a way to keep up their value. all the rules and regulations are dragging apha down. | |
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 The best bad guy on the internet
Posts: 3519
Location: Arizona | svincent - 2014-01-20 12:34 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-01-20 1:33 PM
LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 1:19 PM
svincent - 2014-01-20 11:29 AM
casualdust07 - 2014-01-20 11:56 AM
Runnin < C > - 2014-01-20 11:53 AM
svincent - 2014-01-20 11:41 AM LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 11:32 AM Reading threw these posts confuse me. A Paint is a COLOR not a BREED...... Just like Palominos....a color not a breed.... False... The American Paint Horse IS A BREED. Palomino is a color, buckskin is a color, dun is a color, brown is a color. Paint is a breed. A breed is any group of animals with a homogenous, regular phenotype/genotype. If you breed two paints, you are going to get a paint (exceptions for the crop out/plain marked ) - if you breed two palominos, you might get one, you might not. There are crop out QHs also that have "excessive white" - there are the oddballs in every group - but I assure you, the APH is most definitely its own specific breed. Correct, Paint is a breed. Not a color.
which is why they allow solid paints to be registered… LOL.
Exactly.lol
Hmm, I still don't agree...if you have two quarter horses, you breed them and you get a colored horse...what is the horse? If you have two Arabians you breed them and you get a colored horse, what is the horse? I guess I just don't see a "paint" as a breed. I see it as a color....I understand that the AQHA won't register a horse of color thus the APHA was formed...
I believe if you breed 2 Arabians and got coloured, they would still be registered Arabian color would be pinto
YES!
The color would be classed as a Pinto but the breed an Arabian....??? | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 602
| Around here paints are not know to be successful in the barrel pen. I do see alot in reining and roping but I can honestly say Ive never seen a nice barrel racing paint. The ones Ive seen are a pain in the a** and do not run that great. I personally am not a fan of the paint look, I like the plain old sorrels. | |
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 Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 2:14 PM
svincent - 2014-01-20 12:34 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-01-20 1:33 PM
LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 1:19 PM
svincent - 2014-01-20 11:29 AM
casualdust07 - 2014-01-20 11:56 AM
Runnin < C > - 2014-01-20 11:53 AM
svincent - 2014-01-20 11:41 AM LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 11:32 AM Reading threw these posts confuse me. A Paint is a COLOR not a BREED...... Just like Palominos....a color not a breed.... False... The American Paint Horse IS A BREED. Palomino is a color, buckskin is a color, dun is a color, brown is a color. Paint is a breed. A breed is any group of animals with a homogenous, regular phenotype/genotype. If you breed two paints, you are going to get a paint (exceptions for the crop out/plain marked ) - if you breed two palominos, you might get one, you might not. There are crop out QHs also that have "excessive white" - there are the oddballs in every group - but I assure you, the APH is most definitely its own specific breed. Correct, Paint is a breed. Not a color.
which is why they allow solid paints to be registered… LOL.
Exactly.lol
Hmm, I still don't agree...if you have two quarter horses, you breed them and you get a colored horse...what is the horse? If you have two Arabians you breed them and you get a colored horse, what is the horse? I guess I just don't see a "paint" as a breed. I see it as a color....I understand that the AQHA won't register a horse of color thus the APHA was formed...
I believe if you breed 2 Arabians and got coloured, they would still be registered Arabian color would be pinto
YES!
The color would be classed as a Pinto but the breed an Arabian....???
This is a direct quote from the Pinto Association website:
"A frequently asked question about the Pinto is “what’s the difference between an American Paint horse and a Pinto horse?” American Paint horses are limited to registered bloodlines of Paint, American Quarter Horse and Thoroughbred horses, whereas the Pinto can be from an array of bloodlines including the Arabian, American Saddlebred, American Miniature Horse, Tennessee Walking Horse and American Shetland Pony to name a few. The PtHA does not accept Appaloosa, Draft or Mule breedings and/or characteristics, except for non-characteristic Appaloosa geldings."
The term "pinto" is used to describe a coat pattern. The term "paint" is in reference to the breed, although most people refer to ANY colored horse as a paint, whether it is registered or not.
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 Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | Gunner11 - 2014-01-20 2:30 PM LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 2:14 PM svincent - 2014-01-20 12:34 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-01-20 1:33 PM LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 1:19 PM svincent - 2014-01-20 11:29 AM casualdust07 - 2014-01-20 11:56 AM Runnin < C > - 2014-01-20 11:53 AM svincent - 2014-01-20 11:41 AM LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 11:32 AM Reading threw these posts confuse me. A Paint is a COLOR not a BREED...... Just like Palominos....a color not a breed.... False... The American Paint Horse IS A BREED. Palomino is a color, buckskin is a color, dun is a color, brown is a color. Paint is a breed. A breed is any group of animals with a homogenous, regular phenotype/genotype. If you breed two paints, you are going to get a paint (exceptions for the crop out/plain marked ) - if you breed two palominos, you might get one, you might not. There are crop out QHs also that have "excessive white" - there are the oddballs in every group - but I assure you, the APH is most definitely its own specific breed. Correct, Paint is a breed. Not a color. which is why they allow solid paints to be registered… LOL. Exactly.lol Hmm, I still don't agree...if you have two quarter horses, you breed them and you get a colored horse...what is the horse? If you have two Arabians you breed them and you get a colored horse, what is the horse? I guess I just don't see a "paint" as a breed. I see it as a color....I understand that the AQHA won't register a horse of color thus the APHA was formed... I believe if you breed 2 Arabians and got coloured, they would still be registered Arabian color would be pinto YES! The color would be classed as a Pinto but the breed an Arabian....??? This is a direct quote from the Pinto Association website: "A frequently asked question about the Pinto is “what’s the difference between an American Paint horse and a Pinto horse?” American Paint horses are limited to registered bloodlines of Paint, American Quarter Horse and Thoroughbred horses, whereas the Pinto can be from an array of bloodlines including the Arabian, American Saddlebred, American Miniature Horse, Tennessee Walking Horse and American Shetland Pony to name a few. The PtHA does not accept Appaloosa, Draft or Mule breedings and/or characteristics, except for non-characteristic Appaloosa geldings." The term "pinto" is used to describe a coat pattern. The term "paint" is in reference to the breed, although most people refer to ANY colored horse as a paint, whether it is registered or not.
and thus why APH is not actually a breed....... | |
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Cute Little Imp
Posts: 2747
Location: N Texas | dhdqhllc - 2014-01-20 2:34 PM
Gunner11 - 2014-01-20 2:30 PM LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 2:14 PM svincent - 2014-01-20 12:34 PM cheryl makofka - 2014-01-20 1:33 PM LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 1:19 PM svincent - 2014-01-20 11:29 AM casualdust07 - 2014-01-20 11:56 AM Runnin < C > - 2014-01-20 11:53 AM svincent - 2014-01-20 11:41 AM LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 11:32 AM Reading threw these posts confuse me. A Paint is a COLOR not a BREED...... Just like Palominos....a color not a breed.... False... The American Paint Horse IS A BREED. Palomino is a color, buckskin is a color, dun is a color, brown is a color. Paint is a breed. A breed is any group of animals with a homogenous, regular phenotype/genotype. If you breed two paints, you are going to get a paint (exceptions for the crop out/plain marked ) - if you breed two palominos, you might get one, you might not. There are crop out QHs also that have "excessive white" - there are the oddballs in every group - but I assure you, the APH is most definitely its own specific breed. Correct, Paint is a breed. Not a color. which is why they allow solid paints to be registered… LOL. Exactly.lol Hmm, I still don't agree...if you have two quarter horses, you breed them and you get a colored horse...what is the horse? If you have two Arabians you breed them and you get a colored horse, what is the horse? I guess I just don't see a "paint" as a breed. I see it as a color....I understand that the AQHA won't register a horse of color thus the APHA was formed... I believe if you breed 2 Arabians and got coloured, they would still be registered Arabian color would be pinto YES! The color would be classed as a Pinto but the breed an Arabian....??? This is a direct quote from the Pinto Association website: "A frequently asked question about the Pinto is “what’s the difference between an American Paint horse and a Pinto horse?” American Paint horses are limited to registered bloodlines of Paint, American Quarter Horse and Thoroughbred horses, whereas the Pinto can be from an array of bloodlines including the Arabian, American Saddlebred, American Miniature Horse, Tennessee Walking Horse and American Shetland Pony to name a few. The PtHA does not accept Appaloosa, Draft or Mule breedings and/or characteristics, except for non-characteristic Appaloosa geldings." The term "pinto" is used to describe a coat pattern. The term "paint" is in reference to the breed, although most people refer to ANY colored horse as a paint, whether it is registered or not.
Technically it is a breed, because you have to have registered parents in order to register your foal. However, only one parent has to be registered with APHA. The other can be AQHA or Jockey Club (I believe you can only cross with quarter horses and thoroughbreds and still be able to register them as a paint). So you still have to have two registered parents to register a foal.
I believe they allow this so they can improve the breed to be more versatile and athletic, hence why so many paints nowadays have QH or TB conformation. | |
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The best bad guy on the internet
Posts: 3519
Location: Arizona | Gunner11 - 2014-01-20 1:30 PM
LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 2:14 PM
svincent - 2014-01-20 12:34 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-01-20 1:33 PM
LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 1:19 PM
svincent - 2014-01-20 11:29 AM
casualdust07 - 2014-01-20 11:56 AM
Runnin < C > - 2014-01-20 11:53 AM
svincent - 2014-01-20 11:41 AM LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 11:32 AM Reading threw these posts confuse me. A Paint is a COLOR not a BREED...... Just like Palominos....a color not a breed.... False... The American Paint Horse IS A BREED. Palomino is a color, buckskin is a color, dun is a color, brown is a color. Paint is a breed. A breed is any group of animals with a homogenous, regular phenotype/genotype. If you breed two paints, you are going to get a paint (exceptions for the crop out/plain marked ) - if you breed two palominos, you might get one, you might not. There are crop out QHs also that have "excessive white" - there are the oddballs in every group - but I assure you, the APH is most definitely its own specific breed. Correct, Paint is a breed. Not a color.
which is why they allow solid paints to be registered… LOL.
Exactly.lol
Hmm, I still don't agree...if you have two quarter horses, you breed them and you get a colored horse...what is the horse? If you have two Arabians you breed them and you get a colored horse, what is the horse? I guess I just don't see a "paint" as a breed. I see it as a color....I understand that the AQHA won't register a horse of color thus the APHA was formed...
I believe if you breed 2 Arabians and got coloured, they would still be registered Arabian color would be pinto
YES!
The color would be classed as a Pinto but the breed an Arabian....???
This is a direct quote from the Pinto Association website:
"A frequently asked question about the Pinto is “what’s the difference between an American Paint horse and a Pinto horse?” American Paint horses are limited to registered bloodlines of Paint, American Quarter Horse and Thoroughbred horses, whereas the Pinto can be from an array of bloodlines including the Arabian, American Saddlebred, American Miniature Horse, Tennessee Walking Horse and American Shetland Pony to name a few. The PtHA does not accept Appaloosa, Draft or Mule breedings and/or characteristics, except for non-characteristic Appaloosa geldings."
The term "pinto" is used to describe a coat pattern. The term "paint" is in reference to the breed, although most people refer to ANY colored horse as a paint, whether it is registered or not.
I totally understand the Pinto Association. It's when people say I own a Paint...okay great what kind? This is how I see it...you can have a Paint(colored horse) from any "bloodline" (breed) its the "associations" that define what you have....lol! | |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 2:45 PM
Gunner11 - 2014-01-20 1:30 PM
LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 2:14 PM
svincent - 2014-01-20 12:34 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-01-20 1:33 PM
LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 1:19 PM
svincent - 2014-01-20 11:29 AM
casualdust07 - 2014-01-20 11:56 AM
Runnin < C > - 2014-01-20 11:53 AM
svincent - 2014-01-20 11:41 AM LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 11:32 AM Reading threw these posts confuse me. A Paint is a COLOR not a BREED...... Just like Palominos....a color not a breed.... False... The American Paint Horse IS A BREED. Palomino is a color, buckskin is a color, dun is a color, brown is a color. Paint is a breed. A breed is any group of animals with a homogenous, regular phenotype/genotype. If you breed two paints, you are going to get a paint (exceptions for the crop out/plain marked ) - if you breed two palominos, you might get one, you might not. There are crop out QHs also that have "excessive white" - there are the oddballs in every group - but I assure you, the APH is most definitely its own specific breed. Correct, Paint is a breed. Not a color.
which is why they allow solid paints to be registered… LOL.
Exactly.lol
Hmm, I still don't agree...if you have two quarter horses, you breed them and you get a colored horse...what is the horse? If you have two Arabians you breed them and you get a colored horse, what is the horse? I guess I just don't see a "paint" as a breed. I see it as a color....I understand that the AQHA won't register a horse of color thus the APHA was formed...
I believe if you breed 2 Arabians and got coloured, they would still be registered Arabian color would be pinto
YES!
The color would be classed as a Pinto but the breed an Arabian....???
This is a direct quote from the Pinto Association website:
"A frequently asked question about the Pinto is “what’s the difference between an American Paint horse and a Pinto horse?” American Paint horses are limited to registered bloodlines of Paint, American Quarter Horse and Thoroughbred horses, whereas the Pinto can be from an array of bloodlines including the Arabian, American Saddlebred, American Miniature Horse, Tennessee Walking Horse and American Shetland Pony to name a few. The PtHA does not accept Appaloosa, Draft or Mule breedings and/or characteristics, except for non-characteristic Appaloosa geldings."
The term "pinto" is used to describe a coat pattern. The term "paint" is in reference to the breed, although most people refer to ANY colored horse as a paint, whether it is registered or not.
I totally understand the Pinto Association. It's when people say I own a Paint...okay great what kind? This is how I see it...you can have a Paint (colored horse ) from any "bloodline" (breed ) its the "associations" that define what you have....lol!
When people say they have a paint, but really they have a pinto patterned Arabian - it is out of ignorance. If somebody has a pinto colored horse of any breeding other than APHA recognized lineage - it is a pinto, not a Paint. Paint is a breed, pinto is a term uses to describe the color pattern. Again, this is why solid paints can be registered.
IT'S ABOUT GENETICS AND DNA, not just about what you see with your eyes!
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Fire Ant Peddler
Posts: 2881
| When you go to a barrel race of any size I bet that at least 1/3 of the horses there are solid color paints. | |
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The best bad guy on the internet
Posts: 3519
Location: Arizona | svincent - 2014-01-20 2:04 PM
LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 2:45 PM
Gunner11 - 2014-01-20 1:30 PM
LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 2:14 PM
svincent - 2014-01-20 12:34 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-01-20 1:33 PM
LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 1:19 PM
svincent - 2014-01-20 11:29 AM
casualdust07 - 2014-01-20 11:56 AM
Runnin < C > - 2014-01-20 11:53 AM
svincent - 2014-01-20 11:41 AM LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 11:32 AM Reading threw these posts confuse me. A Paint is a COLOR not a BREED...... Just like Palominos....a color not a breed.... False... The American Paint Horse IS A BREED. Palomino is a color, buckskin is a color, dun is a color, brown is a color. Paint is a breed. A breed is any group of animals with a homogenous, regular phenotype/genotype. If you breed two paints, you are going to get a paint (exceptions for the crop out/plain marked ) - if you breed two palominos, you might get one, you might not. There are crop out QHs also that have "excessive white" - there are the oddballs in every group - but I assure you, the APH is most definitely its own specific breed. Correct, Paint is a breed. Not a color.
which is why they allow solid paints to be registered… LOL.
Exactly.lol
Hmm, I still don't agree...if you have two quarter horses, you breed them and you get a colored horse...what is the horse? If you have two Arabians you breed them and you get a colored horse, what is the horse? I guess I just don't see a "paint" as a breed. I see it as a color....I understand that the AQHA won't register a horse of color thus the APHA was formed...
I believe if you breed 2 Arabians and got coloured, they would still be registered Arabian color would be pinto
YES!
The color would be classed as a Pinto but the breed an Arabian....???
This is a direct quote from the Pinto Association website:
"A frequently asked question about the Pinto is “what’s the difference between an American Paint horse and a Pinto horse?” American Paint horses are limited to registered bloodlines of Paint, American Quarter Horse and Thoroughbred horses, whereas the Pinto can be from an array of bloodlines including the Arabian, American Saddlebred, American Miniature Horse, Tennessee Walking Horse and American Shetland Pony to name a few. The PtHA does not accept Appaloosa, Draft or Mule breedings and/or characteristics, except for non-characteristic Appaloosa geldings."
The term "pinto" is used to describe a coat pattern. The term "paint" is in reference to the breed, although most people refer to ANY colored horse as a paint, whether it is registered or not.
I totally understand the Pinto Association. It's when people say I own a Paint...okay great what kind? This is how I see it...you can have a Paint (colored horse ) from any "bloodline" (breed ) its the "associations" that define what you have....lol!
When people say they have a paint, but really they have a pinto patterned Arabian - it is out of ignorance. If somebody has a pinto colored horse of any breeding other than APHA recognized lineage - it is a pinto, not a Paint. Paint is a breed, pinto is a term uses to describe the color pattern. Again, this is why solid paints can be registered.
IT'S ABOUT GENETICS AND DNA, not just about what you see with your eyes!
I guess I just won't ever see it that way. Two registered AQHA horses that have a foal and it happens to come out colored is a Paint? Hmm...I see the horse as a quarter horse that the AQHA won't register, thus it's now a APHA quarter horse..but still a quarter horse. I call those quarter horse Paint.... | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 898
Location: Mountains of VA | Guess it depends on what part of the country you are in. I have always made more money on Paints than QHs. I'll take all the big tobiano geldings..........there is such a good market for them here in the east. It's the QHs that you can't give away here.
Too bad that so many people have a "thing" against paints. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1430
Location: Montana | hotpaints - 2014-01-20 5:08 PM
Guess it depends on what part of the country you are in. I have always made more money on Paints than QHs. I'll take all the big tobiano geldings..........there is such a good market for them here in the east. It's the QHs that you can't give away here.
Too bad that so many people have a "thing" against paints.
I agree completely. It is very regional. For that reason, I really, really miss $1/gallon gas! ha!
You absolutely cannot make a generalization about Paint pricing - because regional and discipline difference are huge.
It's easy to see why QH race horses are worth more - they run for far, far more money. The APHA has, in my opinion, just not done it's job helping Paint racing in the different states. We had a lot of states get a good start . . . and just die off.
I've very hopeful the new barrel incentive program will be helpful for prospect prices. That's the kind of thing we have desperately needed.
About 15 years ago the Paint industry was turning out a bunch of junk with color. A few good horses were still being bred - I'd say most of them at the track but I'm biased. It will take us a very, very long time to get over the bad reputation we built for ourselves by breeding all that colored junk.
In the last year or so I'm starting to hear breeders who have quit pricing their solids lower than their colored foals. These are people with good horses bred to do something for a living - that won't work with backyard pets. I think that is a very interesting concept . . . I'll be interested to see if it takes off or not. I haven't gotten there yet.
From our perspective, the good Paints still sell but you have to be able to prove that you aren't one of those Paint breeders who just breeds for color. I always have a pen full of solids I can prove that with. ;-) If you are looking for prospects to buy, train and sell, the maximum potential profit, I think, is in solid Paints. Buy the discounted prospect and sell the non-discounted finished horse. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1430
Location: Montana | moeman17 - 2014-01-19 5:13 PM I would like to know why you guys think paints don't bring as much as quarters horses? No matter how well bred they are. I was able to get this guy for a great price and nothing wrong with him, two outs on the track and well broke, just getting a handle on him now, super smart, coming along great.http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/jl+lacis+bow
Oh, fun! We owned your colt's second dam's sire until his death. We was an awesome barrel horse sire - and a wonderful horse. I still miss him. He was just cool. HotPaints' stud is a son.
I will say this - Raise Your Rocket was bred to be a speed demon and was a great barrel sire. He was pretty much a bust as a track sire though. So he might have contributed to you getting your colt cheap from the track - but he'll be advantage to you now!
If you are curious, here's more:
http://ausranch.com/raise-your-rocket/ | |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 4:25 PM
svincent - 2014-01-20 2:04 PM
LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 2:45 PM
Gunner11 - 2014-01-20 1:30 PM
LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 2:14 PM
svincent - 2014-01-20 12:34 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-01-20 1:33 PM
LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 1:19 PM
svincent - 2014-01-20 11:29 AM
casualdust07 - 2014-01-20 11:56 AM
Runnin < C > - 2014-01-20 11:53 AM
svincent - 2014-01-20 11:41 AM LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 11:32 AM Reading threw these posts confuse me. A Paint is a COLOR not a BREED...... Just like Palominos....a color not a breed.... False... The American Paint Horse IS A BREED. Palomino is a color, buckskin is a color, dun is a color, brown is a color. Paint is a breed. A breed is any group of animals with a homogenous, regular phenotype/genotype. If you breed two paints, you are going to get a paint (exceptions for the crop out/plain marked ) - if you breed two palominos, you might get one, you might not. There are crop out QHs also that have "excessive white" - there are the oddballs in every group - but I assure you, the APH is most definitely its own specific breed. Correct, Paint is a breed. Not a color.
which is why they allow solid paints to be registered… LOL.
Exactly.lol
Hmm, I still don't agree...if you have two quarter horses, you breed them and you get a colored horse...what is the horse? If you have two Arabians you breed them and you get a colored horse, what is the horse? I guess I just don't see a "paint" as a breed. I see it as a color....I understand that the AQHA won't register a horse of color thus the APHA was formed...
I believe if you breed 2 Arabians and got coloured, they would still be registered Arabian color would be pinto
YES!
The color would be classed as a Pinto but the breed an Arabian....???
This is a direct quote from the Pinto Association website:
"A frequently asked question about the Pinto is “what’s the difference between an American Paint horse and a Pinto horse?” American Paint horses are limited to registered bloodlines of Paint, American Quarter Horse and Thoroughbred horses, whereas the Pinto can be from an array of bloodlines including the Arabian, American Saddlebred, American Miniature Horse, Tennessee Walking Horse and American Shetland Pony to name a few. The PtHA does not accept Appaloosa, Draft or Mule breedings and/or characteristics, except for non-characteristic Appaloosa geldings."
The term "pinto" is used to describe a coat pattern. The term "paint" is in reference to the breed, although most people refer to ANY colored horse as a paint, whether it is registered or not.
I totally understand the Pinto Association. It's when people say I own a Paint...okay great what kind? This is how I see it...you can have a Paint (colored horse ) from any "bloodline" (breed ) its the "associations" that define what you have....lol!
When people say they have a paint, but really they have a pinto patterned Arabian - it is out of ignorance. If somebody has a pinto colored horse of any breeding other than APHA recognized lineage - it is a pinto, not a Paint. Paint is a breed, pinto is a term uses to describe the color pattern. Again, this is why solid paints can be registered.
IT'S ABOUT GENETICS AND DNA, not just about what you see with your eyes!
I guess I just won't ever see it that way. Two registered AQHA horses that have a foal and it happens to come out colored is a Paint? Hmm...I see the horse as a quarter horse that the AQHA won't register, thus it's now a APHA quarter horse..but still a quarter horse. I call those quarter horse Paint....
AQHA changed that rule years ago. if you have two registered AQHA parents, the foal is registrable as AQHA no matter what his color pattern.
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 4:25 PM
svincent - 2014-01-20 2:04 PM
LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 2:45 PM
Gunner11 - 2014-01-20 1:30 PM
LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 2:14 PM
svincent - 2014-01-20 12:34 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-01-20 1:33 PM
LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 1:19 PM
svincent - 2014-01-20 11:29 AM
casualdust07 - 2014-01-20 11:56 AM
Runnin < C > - 2014-01-20 11:53 AM
svincent - 2014-01-20 11:41 AM LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 11:32 AM Reading threw these posts confuse me. A Paint is a COLOR not a BREED...... Just like Palominos....a color not a breed.... False... The American Paint Horse IS A BREED. Palomino is a color, buckskin is a color, dun is a color, brown is a color. Paint is a breed. A breed is any group of animals with a homogenous, regular phenotype/genotype. If you breed two paints, you are going to get a paint (exceptions for the crop out/plain marked ) - if you breed two palominos, you might get one, you might not. There are crop out QHs also that have "excessive white" - there are the oddballs in every group - but I assure you, the APH is most definitely its own specific breed. Correct, Paint is a breed. Not a color.
which is why they allow solid paints to be registered… LOL.
Exactly.lol
Hmm, I still don't agree...if you have two quarter horses, you breed them and you get a colored horse...what is the horse? If you have two Arabians you breed them and you get a colored horse, what is the horse? I guess I just don't see a "paint" as a breed. I see it as a color....I understand that the AQHA won't register a horse of color thus the APHA was formed...
I believe if you breed 2 Arabians and got coloured, they would still be registered Arabian color would be pinto
YES!
The color would be classed as a Pinto but the breed an Arabian....???
This is a direct quote from the Pinto Association website:
"A frequently asked question about the Pinto is “what’s the difference between an American Paint horse and a Pinto horse?” American Paint horses are limited to registered bloodlines of Paint, American Quarter Horse and Thoroughbred horses, whereas the Pinto can be from an array of bloodlines including the Arabian, American Saddlebred, American Miniature Horse, Tennessee Walking Horse and American Shetland Pony to name a few. The PtHA does not accept Appaloosa, Draft or Mule breedings and/or characteristics, except for non-characteristic Appaloosa geldings."
The term "pinto" is used to describe a coat pattern. The term "paint" is in reference to the breed, although most people refer to ANY colored horse as a paint, whether it is registered or not.
I totally understand the Pinto Association. It's when people say I own a Paint...okay great what kind? This is how I see it...you can have a Paint (colored horse ) from any "bloodline" (breed ) its the "associations" that define what you have....lol!
When people say they have a paint, but really they have a pinto patterned Arabian - it is out of ignorance. If somebody has a pinto colored horse of any breeding other than APHA recognized lineage - it is a pinto, not a Paint. Paint is a breed, pinto is a term uses to describe the color pattern. Again, this is why solid paints can be registered.
IT'S ABOUT GENETICS AND DNA, not just about what you see with your eyes!
I guess I just won't ever see it that way. Two registered AQHA horses that have a foal and it happens to come out colored is a Paint? Hmm...I see the horse as a quarter horse that the AQHA won't register, thus it's now a APHA quarter horse..but still a quarter horse. I call those quarter horse Paint....
It's not really a question of how a person sees it. Paint is a breed - scientific fact. And AQHA changed that rule years ago. | |
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 Veteran
Posts: 101
| svincent - 2014-01-20 9:39 PM
LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 4:25 PM
svincent - 2014-01-20 2:04 PM
LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 2:45 PM
Gunner11 - 2014-01-20 1:30 PM
LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 2:14 PM
svincent - 2014-01-20 12:34 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-01-20 1:33 PM
LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 1:19 PM
svincent - 2014-01-20 11:29 AM
casualdust07 - 2014-01-20 11:56 AM
Runnin < C > - 2014-01-20 11:53 AM
svincent - 2014-01-20 11:41 AM LIVE2RUN - 2014-01-20 11:32 AM Reading threw these posts confuse me. A Paint is a COLOR not a BREED...... Just like Palominos....a color not a breed.... False... The American Paint Horse IS A BREED. Palomino is a color, buckskin is a color, dun is a color, brown is a color. Paint is a breed. A breed is any group of animals with a homogenous, regular phenotype/genotype. If you breed two paints, you are going to get a paint (exceptions for the crop out/plain marked ) - if you breed two palominos, you might get one, you might not. There are crop out QHs also that have "excessive white" - there are the oddballs in every group - but I assure you, the APH is most definitely its own specific breed. Correct, Paint is a breed. Not a color.
which is why they allow solid paints to be registered… LOL.
Exactly.lol
Hmm, I still don't agree...if you have two quarter horses, you breed them and you get a colored horse...what is the horse? If you have two Arabians you breed them and you get a colored horse, what is the horse? I guess I just don't see a "paint" as a breed. I see it as a color....I understand that the AQHA won't register a horse of color thus the APHA was formed...
I believe if you breed 2 Arabians and got coloured, they would still be registered Arabian color would be pinto
YES!
The color would be classed as a Pinto but the breed an Arabian....???
This is a direct quote from the Pinto Association website:
"A frequently asked question about the Pinto is “what’s the difference between an American Paint horse and a Pinto horse?” American Paint horses are limited to registered bloodlines of Paint, American Quarter Horse and Thoroughbred horses, whereas the Pinto can be from an array of bloodlines including the Arabian, American Saddlebred, American Miniature Horse, Tennessee Walking Horse and American Shetland Pony to name a few. The PtHA does not accept Appaloosa, Draft or Mule breedings and/or characteristics, except for non-characteristic Appaloosa geldings."
The term "pinto" is used to describe a coat pattern. The term "paint" is in reference to the breed, although most people refer to ANY colored horse as a paint, whether it is registered or not.
I totally understand the Pinto Association. It's when people say I own a Paint...okay great what kind? This is how I see it...you can have a Paint (colored horse ) from any "bloodline" (breed ) its the "associations" that define what you have....lol!
When people say they have a paint, but really they have a pinto patterned Arabian - it is out of ignorance. If somebody has a pinto colored horse of any breeding other than APHA recognized lineage - it is a pinto, not a Paint. Paint is a breed, pinto is a term uses to describe the color pattern. Again, this is why solid paints can be registered.
IT'S ABOUT GENETICS AND DNA, not just about what you see with your eyes!
I guess I just won't ever see it that way. Two registered AQHA horses that have a foal and it happens to come out colored is a Paint? Hmm...I see the horse as a quarter horse that the AQHA won't register, thus it's now a APHA quarter horse..but still a quarter horse. I call those quarter horse Paint....
It's not really a question of how a person sees it. Paint is a breed - scientific fact. And AQHA changed that rule years ago.
If it helps horse monopoly recognizes Paint as a breed :P | |
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