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 Tried and True
Posts: 21185
   
Location: Where I am happiest | I'm going to leave any political or religious aspects out of this but just think of this...........Of the 55 million aborted, one of them just might have discovered the cure for all types of cancer. One of them may have discovered the cure for Huntingtons disease. One of them might have been the greatest president we have ever known. One of them just might have actually achieved true world peace. The possabilities are endless and we might be stuck where we are at this currant time because greatness could very possibly have been aborted. Sad to say the least. | |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | ThreeCorners - 2014-01-23 7:09 AM I'm going to leave any political or religious aspects out of this but just think of this...........Of the 55 million aborted, one of them just might have discovered the cure for all types of cancer. One of them may have discovered the cure for Huntingtons disease. One of them might have been the greatest president we have ever known. One of them just might have actually achieved true world peace. The possabilities are endless and we might be stuck where we are at this currant time because greatness could very possibly have been aborted. Sad to say the least.
That's a good point.
In recent years there have been attempts to pass laws requiring an ultrasound before an abortion can be performed and the laws have required that the baby's anatomy be described verbally to the mother, etc.... Obviously, this is an attempt to be sure the mother really fully understands what she is about to do. I've heard opponents say that this is a cruel attempt to guilt the mother into not having an abortion.
Of course, what those same opponents of the law fail to recognize is that guilt is, more often than not, still experienced later on, and that guilt is often carried with the mother for the remainder of her life. They are quick to point out how this unfairly uses guilt as a tool to manipulate the mother. They omit the fact that mothers seldom feel guilty for giving the baby a chance at life. I see nothing wrong with the notion of "informed" consent, so long as the information presented to the mother is the truth.....as the saying goes, sometimes "the truth hurts". Still, I don't think abortion can or should be legislated. As the public becomes more informed and with advances in medical technology, abortion proponents are naturally becoming fewer and fewer. I do favor laws that ban the use of taxpayer money to fund abortion and abortion clinics. With informed consent, I think abortions will decline, and so will abortion clinics. In fact, we are seeing fewer abortions now and more and more abortion clinics are closing. There is one major reason for this: the truth. | |
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 Wide Darn Open
Posts: 2141
| There are so many issues with abortion that just don't add up. First of all, it's either a life or it's not. If we as a country decide it's not a life, we CANNOT charge someone with two murders for killing a pregnant person. Pick your version of "truth" and stick to it. We as humans seem to want to manipulate each situation to suit us at that particular time...hypocritical.
Second, a baby cannot live on its own for a long time after birth so if it's only life when it becomes independent of another, then women old be able to terminate her 18 month old should she choose.
Third, if the father has no rights before the child is born, he should have no responsibility after it's born. This is another very hypocritical aspect of a "woman's right." If she chooses to abort the child, he has no say in it...if she chooses to keep the baby, he has is expected to take responsibility for the next 18 years.
I respect everyone's right to their opinion, I just have no respect for hypocrites. I personally think the best way to reduce abortion is through education, even at the youngest stages. I wish kids were still taught love and respect for each other instead of being taught that the world revolves around them and whatever they want at any given time. I think abortion wouldn't be seen as an easy out by someone who didn't have parents fighting teachers and everyone else to make sure their child gets his/her way and never has to suffer any consequences.
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | It's pretty easy for me to say that I would not have one from the shelter of a happy marriage and an established, stable career.
I don't judge people who make that choice. We all have our own paths to walk in this life. If anything, someone in that situation needs compassion, not judgement.
I will say that making abortions illegal is not the way to go, IMO. I'm more on the libertarian end of the political spectrum... the government has no place in such an issue. I think it is pathetic to see politicians on both sides squabble over this issue time and time again solely for political gain. An issue like this is extremely personal and is usually not black and white... life is not usually that way... life is shades of gray, my friends.
Edited by barrelracr131 2014-01-23 9:21 AM
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 Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | I think it's impossible to leave out the religious/political aspect...myself, I don't believe that souls are created in the womb...I don't believe that any man/woman has the power to extinguish a soul. I do believe that we all arrive with the knowledge of the Universe...and that we choose our situation. That is why I don't believe it's 'murder'...with the knowledge that a soul must have it would know that it wasn't going to be a viable 'womb' or 'time'. I sincerely believe that this issue is just another opportunity for us to learn from, to get past. A 'tool' if you will in the journey of mankind.
Of course, I may not be right...this is simply what I believe through observation and reason.
How can a woman be made to "fully understand what she is about to do" when nobody really knows?
Doctors don't know. Biblical scholars don't know. And politicians sure as he** don't know.
Removing a womans choice puts us back in the dark ages. It makes us slaves to the whims of men.
I'm glad that people talk about these things...it's the only way we'll ever get through it, fix it, but, don't be hatin'! Lol... | |
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 Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart | Other side of the coin, what if one of those terminated pregnancies would have been another Dahmer, Hitler, Bundy? Or worse? | |
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 Ima Fickle Fan
Posts: 3547
Location: Texas | musikmaker - 2014-01-22 9:29 PM casualdust07 - 2014-01-22 7:35 PM The older I get the more pro life I become. When I was in high school, I remember being made felt that if you were pro life you were backward or behind the times, and that in order to pro women's rights you should be pro choice. I remember the thought process of many girls in school that there wasn't much to worry about because you could just "get it taken care of"…Where I went to college, oh dear it was the same way…at least in the Biology department where I had most of my friends. At the college I went to, they had a display case of fetuses throughout all stages of pregnancy, showing the different stages of development. I guess for curiosity's sake one day I asked my friend and his girlfriend, when we were looking at the display, when they thought life began. They both were convinced up and down that the fetus was not alive until it was born to term, and that it was only a parasite off the mother because if you left it to it's own, it would die. I was speechless.. I guess in my mind I was expecting them to say "when they have a heart beat" or something. With the logic they had, we are all parasite for the first several years of life or more! Anyway, the older I get, the more I lean toward being pro life. A friend of mine told me, people think you aren't pro women's rights if you are against abortions, but really you are for the rights of those who don't have a voice of their own. I personally believe life begins at conception. I'm taking embryology right now and it's amazing how fast cells start dividing and organs start forming. That heart is forming before a lot of people know they are pregnant. So I am looking at it on a scientific and emotional standpoint… I feel there is a place for abortions given circumstances of health, rape, incest, etc… but I hate how some people take advantage of it. I also wouldn't like the government telling me I couldn't do something. I am conflicted. I think a lot of people are 'conflicted' on this issue...part of it must be the entire 'when does life begin?'. A heartbeat you say? How about that 12 year old girl who is being kept alive even though she's brain dead? Or the lady who is pregnant...same thing? They are not 'alive'...even though modern technology is keeping their hearts beating.
Look up the word 'conceive'. it's an idea, a possibility...not an absolute.
If we want to delve into the 'God has a plan & knows everything before we do...' concept then why would He set a woman up this way knowing she would abort before she knew it? Wouldn't that make him partly responsible?
There are no easy answers & I truly believe that we are just on a journey...one that will hopefully make us more aware, appreciative and responsible...to & for our 'possibilities'...how we 'conceive' ourselves. Morally. Honestly. Humanely.
Murder? Are we more powerful than we think? Are we in control of lives besides our own? Are we God? Can we destroy what He creates? I don't think so, myself. Therefore, I must say it is not a life until it takes the Breath of Life...the soul who has chosen that body, that journey, then enters the body.
I sincerely hope that this 'issue' becomes a 'non-issue' at some point...and I think it will, but, not through legislation...through having the choice...and choosing decency...from the beginning of the possibilities.
God doesn't set anyone up to make a bad decision. That is where our free agency comes into play. We are given the opportunity on Earth to make good and bad decisions. The choice is ours alone. To blame God for a bad decision would be the equivalent of saying that God is both good and evil. It would also nullify any religious argument because if God is both good and evil, there would be no reason to live a moral and virtuous life and no need to believe in God.
Personally, I have a hard time with abortion. I have lived my life in a way that I would never be placed in that situation. Even now, I am 36 weeks pregnant and considered a high-risk pregnancy due to my age. Because of that, I had to see a high-risk OBGYN and go through "genetic counseling" so that I could learn my options based upon several "probability" tests. These tests give you a 1 in whatever chance of having a child with defects. This lady talked to me for more than an hour about the need for the tests while I still had "options." I finally looked at her and said, "Terminating this pregnancy is not an option for me. I chose to get pregnant. Regardless of the outcome, my husband and I will love and care for this baby." Needless to say, I declined all tests.
I have friends who chose to have abortions and struggle with their decision daily. But I believe they struggle with it because they chose to have one based upon a baby being an inconvenience and they weren't ready to be a parent. In this day and age, there are so many ways to prevent pregnancy that a baby being inconvenient should not be a valid reason for an abortion. Heck, when I got my flu shot the other day, they were selling the Plan B pill in front of the pharmacy and you had to request generic cold medicine that is now located behind the counter. How messed up is that???
There are circumstances where abortion should be allowed, but refusing to take preventative measures and then crying inconvenience should not be one of them. I'm sorry, at some point, people need to take responsibility for themselves. We teach our children not to touch a hot stove, we sure as heck need to do a better job about educating them about sex and pregnancy. | |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Here is how I see it. Making abortion illegal is not the answer. Women have been getting abortions since the beginning of time, legal or not. We need to convince women that abortion isn't the answer and offer alternatives. And the promoting of abortion needs to stop. Offer the service but discourage its use. | |
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Miracle in the Making
Posts: 4013
| Douglas J Gordon - 2014-01-22 9:18 PM Hey without abortion we wouldn't have Los Alamitos Race Track! Sorry to say!
HUH? can you clarify i missed that 1 loved that track and accross the street was the paddock great track bar | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | vjls - 2014-01-23 9:23 AM Douglas J Gordon - 2014-01-22 9:18 PM Hey without abortion we wouldn't have Los Alamitos Race Track! Sorry to say! HUH? can you clarify i missed that 1 loved that track and accross the street was the paddock great track bar
yes, that also confused me lol | |
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Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | aggiejudger - 2014-01-23 8:09 AM musikmaker - 2014-01-22 9:29 PM casualdust07 - 2014-01-22 7:35 PM The older I get the more pro life I become. When I was in high school, I remember being made felt that if you were pro life you were backward or behind the times, and that in order to pro women's rights you should be pro choice. I remember the thought process of many girls in school that there wasn't much to worry about because you could just "get it taken care of"…Where I went to college, oh dear it was the same way…at least in the Biology department where I had most of my friends. At the college I went to, they had a display case of fetuses throughout all stages of pregnancy, showing the different stages of development. I guess for curiosity's sake one day I asked my friend and his girlfriend, when we were looking at the display, when they thought life began. They both were convinced up and down that the fetus was not alive until it was born to term, and that it was only a parasite off the mother because if you left it to it's own, it would die. I was speechless.. I guess in my mind I was expecting them to say "when they have a heart beat" or something. With the logic they had, we are all parasite for the first several years of life or more! Anyway, the older I get, the more I lean toward being pro life. A friend of mine told me, people think you aren't pro women's rights if you are against abortions, but really you are for the rights of those who don't have a voice of their own. I personally believe life begins at conception. I'm taking embryology right now and it's amazing how fast cells start dividing and organs start forming. That heart is forming before a lot of people know they are pregnant. So I am looking at it on a scientific and emotional standpoint… I feel there is a place for abortions given circumstances of health, rape, incest, etc… but I hate how some people take advantage of it. I also wouldn't like the government telling me I couldn't do something. I am conflicted. I think a lot of people are 'conflicted' on this issue...part of it must be the entire 'when does life begin?'. A heartbeat you say? How about that 12 year old girl who is being kept alive even though she's brain dead? Or the lady who is pregnant...same thing? They are not 'alive'...even though modern technology is keeping their hearts beating.
Look up the word 'conceive'. it's an idea, a possibility...not an absolute.
If we want to delve into the 'God has a plan & knows everything before we do...' concept then why would He set a woman up this way knowing she would abort before she knew it? Wouldn't that make him partly responsible?
There are no easy answers & I truly believe that we are just on a journey...one that will hopefully make us more aware, appreciative and responsible...to & for our 'possibilities'...how we 'conceive' ourselves. Morally. Honestly. Humanely.
Murder? Are we more powerful than we think? Are we in control of lives besides our own? Are we God? Can we destroy what He creates? I don't think so, myself. Therefore, I must say it is not a life until it takes the Breath of Life...the soul who has chosen that body, that journey, then enters the body.
I sincerely hope that this 'issue' becomes a 'non-issue' at some point...and I think it will, but, not through legislation...through having the choice...and choosing decency...from the beginning of the possibilities.
Personally, I have a hard time with abortion. I have lived my life in a way that I would never be placed in that situation. Even now, I am 36 weeks pregnant and considered a high-risk pregnancy due to my age. Because of that, I had to see a high-risk OBGYN and go through "genetic counseling" so that I could learn my options based upon several "probability" tests. These tests give you a 1 in whatever chance of having a child with defects. This lady talked to me for more than an hour about the need for the tests while I still had "options." I finally looked at her and said, "Terminating this pregnancy is not an option for me. I chose to get pregnant. Regardless of the outcome, my husband and I will love and care for this baby." Needless to say, I declined all tests.
I have friends who chose to have abortions and struggle with their decision daily. But I believe they struggle with it because they chose to have one based upon a baby being an inconvenience and they weren't ready to be a parent. In this day and age, there are so many ways to prevent pregnancy that a baby being inconvenient should not be a valid reason for an abortion. Heck, when I got my flu shot the other day, they were selling the Plan B pill in front of the pharmacy and you had to request generic cold medicine that is now located behind the counter. How messed up is that???
There are circumstances where abortion should be allowed, but refusing to take preventative measures and then crying inconvenience should not be one of them. I'm sorry, at some point, people need to take responsibility for themselves. We teach our children not to touch a hot stove, we sure as heck need to do a better job about educating them about sex and pregnancy.
Good points & although I'm way past the age of having anymore children...I highly doubt that I would have tested for possibilities had they been available when I was pregnant...you get what you get.
Maybe, on the other 'thought line', I should have said, 'setting up a soul' to be terminated.
We've all heard the stories of babies who were thought to be still born & hours later they miraculously were alive...it makes a person wonder if the soul just wasn't so certain about 'going there'?
There's so much that we don't consider as it's not what we've been taught...
I still wish the politicians would shut the heck up on this subject & simply fight for our right to fail...to learn...to make mistakes as humans so we may go forward in the land of the free. Protect our 'free agency'. | |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| vjls - 2014-01-23 9:23 AM Douglas J Gordon - 2014-01-22 9:18 PM Hey without abortion we wouldn't have Los Alamitos Race Track! Sorry to say! HUH? can you clarify i missed that 1 loved that track and accross the street was the paddock great track bar
The owner of the race track was a physician who owned abortion clinics. He made comments in the 80's that the clinics were necessary to stop the tide of welfare moms and immigrants. He said if he could he would have free clinics in Mexico and Los Angeles. | |
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Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart | aggiejudger - 2014-01-23 7:09 AM musikmaker - 2014-01-22 9:29 PM casualdust07 - 2014-01-22 7:35 PM The older I get the more pro life I become. When I was in high school, I remember being made felt that if you were pro life you were backward or behind the times, and that in order to pro women's rights you should be pro choice. I remember the thought process of many girls in school that there wasn't much to worry about because you could just "get it taken care of"…Where I went to college, oh dear it was the same way…at least in the Biology department where I had most of my friends. At the college I went to, they had a display case of fetuses throughout all stages of pregnancy, showing the different stages of development. I guess for curiosity's sake one day I asked my friend and his girlfriend, when we were looking at the display, when they thought life began. They both were convinced up and down that the fetus was not alive until it was born to term, and that it was only a parasite off the mother because if you left it to it's own, it would die. I was speechless.. I guess in my mind I was expecting them to say "when they have a heart beat" or something. With the logic they had, we are all parasite for the first several years of life or more! Anyway, the older I get, the more I lean toward being pro life. A friend of mine told me, people think you aren't pro women's rights if you are against abortions, but really you are for the rights of those who don't have a voice of their own. I personally believe life begins at conception. I'm taking embryology right now and it's amazing how fast cells start dividing and organs start forming. That heart is forming before a lot of people know they are pregnant. So I am looking at it on a scientific and emotional standpoint… I feel there is a place for abortions given circumstances of health, rape, incest, etc… but I hate how some people take advantage of it. I also wouldn't like the government telling me I couldn't do something. I am conflicted. I think a lot of people are 'conflicted' on this issue...part of it must be the entire 'when does life begin?'. A heartbeat you say? How about that 12 year old girl who is being kept alive even though she's brain dead? Or the lady who is pregnant...same thing? They are not 'alive'...even though modern technology is keeping their hearts beating.
Look up the word 'conceive'. it's an idea, a possibility...not an absolute.
If we want to delve into the 'God has a plan & knows everything before we do...' concept then why would He set a woman up this way knowing she would abort before she knew it? Wouldn't that make him partly responsible?
There are no easy answers & I truly believe that we are just on a journey...one that will hopefully make us more aware, appreciative and responsible...to & for our 'possibilities'...how we 'conceive' ourselves. Morally. Honestly. Humanely.
Murder? Are we more powerful than we think? Are we in control of lives besides our own? Are we God? Can we destroy what He creates? I don't think so, myself. Therefore, I must say it is not a life until it takes the Breath of Life...the soul who has chosen that body, that journey, then enters the body.
I sincerely hope that this 'issue' becomes a 'non-issue' at some point...and I think it will, but, not through legislation...through having the choice...and choosing decency...from the beginning of the possibilities.
There are circumstances where abortion should be allowed, but refusing to take preventative measures and then crying inconvenience should not be one of them. I'm sorry, at some point, people need to take responsibility for themselves. We teach our children not to touch a hot stove, we sure as heck need to do a better job about educating them about sex and pregnancy.
Edited by justcruzin 2014-01-23 9:42 AM
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | justcruzin - 2014-01-23 8:55 AM
Other side of the coin, what if one of those terminated pregnancies would have been another Dahmer, Hitler, Bundy? Or worse?
This is the typical counter point used by pro-abortionists. I'm not talking about the "pro choice" people......I'm talking pro-death/pro-abortionists.
It's really twisted logic, when you get down to it. Pro life people would look at 100 babies who aren't aborted and say they have freedom to become whatever they want....to pursue dreams, to succeed, and to fail. Pro-abortionists would look at it more like eugenics.....to snuff out those lives would potentially protect society from evil. Think it's fair to say that in this country, most people to on to lead a fulfilling life in one form or another. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | rodeomom3 - 2014-01-23 9:30 AM vjls - 2014-01-23 9:23 AM Douglas J Gordon - 2014-01-22 9:18 PM Hey without abortion we wouldn't have Los Alamitos Race Track! Sorry to say! HUH? can you clarify i missed that 1 loved that track and accross the street was the paddock great track bar The owner of the race track was a physician who owned abortion clinics. He made comments in the 80's that the clinics were necessary to stop the tide of welfare moms and immigrants. He said if he could he would have free clinics in Mexico and Los Angeles.
OH, ok.
now I get it | |
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Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart | HotbearLVR - 2014-01-23 7:40 AM justcruzin - 2014-01-23 8:55 AM Other side of the coin, what if one of those terminated pregnancies would have been another Dahmer, Hitler, Bundy? Or worse? This is the typical counter point used by pro-abortionists. I'm not talking about the "pro choice" people......I'm talking pro-death/pro-abortionists. It's really twisted logic, when you get down to it. Pro life people would look at 100 babies who aren't aborted and say they have freedom to become whatever they want....to pursue dreams, to succeed, and to fail. Pro-abortionists would look at it more like eugenics.....to snuff out those lives would potentially protect society from evil. Think it's fair to say that in this country, most people to on to lead a fulfilling life in one form or another.
I couldn't wait for your response.... | |
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Ima Fickle Fan
Posts: 3547
Location: Texas | justcruzin - 2014-01-23 9:40 AM aggiejudger - 2014-01-23 7:09 AM musikmaker - 2014-01-22 9:29 PM casualdust07 - 2014-01-22 7:35 PM The older I get the more pro life I become. When I was in high school, I remember being made felt that if you were pro life you were backward or behind the times, and that in order to pro women's rights you should be pro choice. I remember the thought process of many girls in school that there wasn't much to worry about because you could just "get it taken care of"…Where I went to college, oh dear it was the same way…at least in the Biology department where I had most of my friends. At the college I went to, they had a display case of fetuses throughout all stages of pregnancy, showing the different stages of development. I guess for curiosity's sake one day I asked my friend and his girlfriend, when we were looking at the display, when they thought life began. They both were convinced up and down that the fetus was not alive until it was born to term, and that it was only a parasite off the mother because if you left it to it's own, it would die. I was speechless.. I guess in my mind I was expecting them to say "when they have a heart beat" or something. With the logic they had, we are all parasite for the first several years of life or more! Anyway, the older I get, the more I lean toward being pro life. A friend of mine told me, people think you aren't pro women's rights if you are against abortions, but really you are for the rights of those who don't have a voice of their own. I personally believe life begins at conception. I'm taking embryology right now and it's amazing how fast cells start dividing and organs start forming. That heart is forming before a lot of people know they are pregnant. So I am looking at it on a scientific and emotional standpoint… I feel there is a place for abortions given circumstances of health, rape, incest, etc… but I hate how some people take advantage of it. I also wouldn't like the government telling me I couldn't do something. I am conflicted. I think a lot of people are 'conflicted' on this issue...part of it must be the entire 'when does life begin?'. A heartbeat you say? How about that 12 year old girl who is being kept alive even though she's brain dead? Or the lady who is pregnant...same thing? They are not 'alive'...even though modern technology is keeping their hearts beating.
Look up the word 'conceive'. it's an idea, a possibility...not an absolute.
If we want to delve into the 'God has a plan & knows everything before we do...' concept then why would He set a woman up this way knowing she would abort before she knew it? Wouldn't that make him partly responsible?
There are no easy answers & I truly believe that we are just on a journey...one that will hopefully make us more aware, appreciative and responsible...to & for our 'possibilities'...how we 'conceive' ourselves. Morally. Honestly. Humanely.
Murder? Are we more powerful than we think? Are we in control of lives besides our own? Are we God? Can we destroy what He creates? I don't think so, myself. Therefore, I must say it is not a life until it takes the Breath of Life...the soul who has chosen that body, that journey, then enters the body.
I sincerely hope that this 'issue' becomes a 'non-issue' at some point...and I think it will, but, not through legislation...through having the choice...and choosing decency...from the beginning of the possibilities.
There are circumstances where abortion should be allowed, but refusing to take preventative measures and then crying inconvenience should not be one of them. I'm sorry, at some point, people need to take responsibility for themselves. We teach our children not to touch a hot stove, we sure as heck need to do a better job about educating them about sex and pregnancy.
I pray for that too. And I am so sorry for your friend. From my ultrasounds, everything has appeared healthy. If like your friend experienced by having issues raised during pregnancy, my outlook would probably be different. That is an extremely hard issue to face.
At the end of the day, I can only control so much and I leave the rest to God. Many prayers for your friend because her situation is heart breaking and I'm not sure one that I could bear. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | musikmaker - 2014-01-23 8:44 AM
I think it's impossible to leave out the religious/political aspect...myself, I don't believe that souls are created in the womb...I don't believe that any man/woman has the power to extinguish a soul. I do believe that we all arrive with the knowledge of the Universe...and that we choose our situation. That is why I don't believe it's 'murder'...with the knowledge that a soul must have it would know that it wasn't going to be a viable 'womb' or 'time'. I sincerely believe that this issue is just another opportunity for us to learn from, to get past. A 'tool' if you will in the journey of mankind.
Of course, I may not be right...this is simply what I believe through observation and reason.
How can a woman be made to "fully understand what she is about to do" when nobody really knows?
Doctors don't know. Biblical scholars don't know. And politicians sure as he** don't know.
Removing a womans choice puts us back in the dark ages. It makes us slaves to the whims of men.
I'm glad that people talk about these things...it's the only way we'll ever get through it, fix it, but, don't be hatin'! Lol...
Absolutely, to a very large extent, doctors know exactly what they are about to do when they perform an abortion. A person can debate on the semantics, and bring in concepts such as the "soul", however this is not what I would do when it comes to informed consent. What absolutely cannot be refuted is the fact that an abortion is an unnatural interruption of a natural process that culminates in the birth of a living human being. Abortion terminates that process. A fetus is living. It is life, in my opinion. I would feel that part of the informed consent would be to point out the anatomy of that baby on ultrasound. I would describe what an abortion entails. I would want to make sure that woman doesn't walk out of the abortion clinic, only to learn later on that she didn't fully realize what she did. I would also discuss options such as adoption and point out how that can make a situation where there is really no up-side, and turn it into a scenario that could yield lifelong satisfaction that she can make a selfless sacrifice so another human being has an opportunity to enjoy life fully. In a way, I look at it a little like organ donation. When a beloved family member becomes brain dead, it is a tragedy for that family. In the midst of that tragedy lies the opportunity for their loved one to save lives or to make someone's life full. That loved one has the opportunity to be a hero in the end. A woman who carries an unwanted pregnancy to term selflessly, has that same opportunity, in a way.
She can give that baby a chance. Those twins I talked about in an earlier post were nearly terminated......but this kind of reasoning that I pointed out to the mother really resonated with her. This kind of approach is what is leading to they decline in abortion rates. | |
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 Toastest with the Mostest
Posts: 5712
Location: That part of Texas | Three 4 Luck - 2014-01-23 9:09 AM Here is how I see it. Making abortion illegal is not the answer. Women have been getting abortions since the beginning of time, legal or not. We need to convince women that abortion isn't the answer and offer alternatives. And the promoting of abortion needs to stop. Offer the service but discourage its use.
I agree. It makes me wonder what kind of a world we would start to live in if we took all the time and energy devoted to the abortion issue and put that towards trying to better regulate, manage and coax people into adoption.
As for the government's role in abortion, I say that it has a right to be heard. Afterall, it's the government who is in charge of picking up the pieces on what happens to children who are unwanted or abused when they fall into CPS court or even our juvenile/prison system later on. If you work in that area long enough, you start to see the issue through a different lens and want more than just a yea or nay option to things.
I'm not a big fan of abortion but I'm also not a big fan of watching a parent basically abuse an unwanted child that will carry scars -- both physical and emotional -- for the rest of his/her life because their parent was too selfish to give them up to someone who would properly care for them. I've seen parents put on the most theatric displays and outbursts worthy of an Oscar in the back of a courtroom when their child -- who they neglected and starved both food and affection from -- was taken away from them. "Oh Lord! DON'T TAKE MY BABY! DON'T TAKE MY BABY!!!!" coming from the same mouth who would scream at them so loud the neighbors could hear on a daily basis all the emotional abuse the child(ren) were subjected to.
I don't know what the answer is. I just know that nobody wins in this game -- not either side even when they get what they want. | |
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 BHW's Lance Armstrong 
Posts: 11134
Location: Somewhere between S@%&# stirrer and Saint | vjls - 2014-01-23 9:23 AM Douglas J Gordon - 2014-01-22 9:18 PM Hey without abortion we wouldn't have Los Alamitos Race Track! Sorry to say! HUH? can you clarify i missed that 1 loved that track and accross the street was the paddock great track bar
I was told that Ed Allred was an abortion doctor! | |
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Folks on-line