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 Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
   
Location: Kansas | Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-27 11:14 AM Horses are so good at compensating and gritting through pain, that it's often like peeling an onion to get them totally sound. Unless you find something that NEEDS rest to heal, you're better off to keep using them, even if it's limited, until you get to the root of the problem and then re-evaluate. So often you fix one thing and something else shows up--it was there all along, just not apparent. If they're out in the pasture, you're not going to know until you put them back to work and then you have lost more time.
quoted from barrelracer131 --
If I were in your shoes though, I would probably get a second opinion and pull some films. I prefer to find a definative diagnosis when possible before injecting (since the blocks were inconclusive). In my experience, the "where" of the pain is just as important as the "why".
Going to respond to both your posts at once -
He is very gritty and tough - that's what makes him a great rodeo horse and that's also what makes finding the source of his pain a real PITA. That is the reason I've run him a little this year - I've been trying to get enough video and impressions from running him & others watching him to point my vet in the right direction. Which I did, by telling him hind end, maybe stifles or SI. It just wasn't quite apparent enough to Dr. Droge, but the front foot pain was so that's what we tried to address first. The one run I made after that (March 15th) we were 3rd in the 2d & 17th overall out of 158. That still wasn't enough for anyone but me to say "HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM."
As far as a second opinion & films - I don't think that films are necessary since I essentially got my second opinion when Dr. Hickman the vet/chiro looked at him Tuesday. I don't think the feet are the cause of the pain - I think they hurt because he's been compensating for the SI pain. the more we put this puzzle together, the more it all makes sense. He fell 9/21/2013 & hurt his SI joint, but is tough enough to keep running and clocking for the most part (2nd in 1D w/over 100 entries 1st weekend of October, 1st in tough jackpot Oct. 20th, 9th out of 70+ at 3 straight rodeos over New Years, 4th in 1D of tough jackpot Jan. 12th, etc.) so we had trouble discovering that there was a problem, then finding it became even more of a needle in a haystack search. | |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | HotbearLVR - 2014-03-27 11:48 AM Three 4 Luck - 2014-03-27 11:14 AM Horses are so good at compensating and gritting through pain, that it's often like peeling an onion to get them totally sound. Unless you find something that NEEDS rest to heal, you're better off to keep using them, even if it's limited, until you get to the root of the problem and then re-evaluate. So often you fix one thing and something else shows up--it was there all along, just not apparent. If they're out in the pasture, you're not going to know until you put them back to work and then you have lost more time. Lost more time? Time for what? Honestly, I am just trying to understand and reconcile this in my mind. It's not like you are losing money.....in fact, chances are you are probably saving money overall.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to have a discussion and learn. So far, I'm not convinced that a period of down time, with conditioning, like the things that were suggested to Megan is not lost time. Actually, it sounds like she has a pretty good plan. I don't have the answer as to how much down time is a good idea, but it seems to me that a sensible thing would be to err on more time off, rather than pushing things ahead a few weeks. It would be a shame to spend all that time and effort with the vet, plus meds, chiro/massage, conditioning......only to have it all go to waste because of hauling too soon. Then again, maybe I'm too conservative with something like this.
In that run where Megan and Chance fell, he doesn't look right even before the fall. His head is high. He's posturing and his back is hollowed out and he's taking his face away. I wonder if he didn't have something wrong before this fall. Also, it seems to me I have seen other videos where he is firing a lot better and just running better overall....as far as I can recall, at least.
I think she means if I turn him out for 3 months, bring him back in and start running in August, then find out he's still sore, I've got to fix a problem in August that I could have fixed in March and been able to run him at the big summer rodeos.
And that run at Kearney, I was holding him back until after the 2nd barrel because the ground was so yucky. I thought the worst part was the first two barrels - I was wrong. :( I literally left the arena in tears because he trusted me, ran hard at the 3rd barrel and the ground wasn't good enough to hold him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llyFM_lXNJ4 If you watch this video (placing 7th out of 100+ and running 11th on the ground in an arena where common wisdom says you have to be in the 1st 5 on a drag to place), he was a BEAST in 2012 and I've been racking my brain trying to figure out what we were doing then that we didn't do last year. I bought a PHT blanket because I had one that summer and I'm going to do a lot more hill work because I did in 2012. I just don't know what has changed other than those two things and an injury. When we fell at Kearney, we were in the top 20 of the URA standings with almost as much money won as we did in 2012 when we finished 15th and made the finals. | |
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
 
Location: Opelousas, LA | You may want to have someone check his whorlbones (trochantaric bursas) as they will get inflamed when there are long standing back end issues. Bursitis hurts and will make a horse not want to push off with thier back end.
RVI is an awesome "drug" for all over body soreness, so good that I believe it masked my mares kissing spine issues. I now only use it after I have my horses thoroughly vetted. You can get it without prescription from Allivet for $95 for six doses. Very important to give it under the skin or it will not work, also need to wait a week or so after injecting with any anti inflamitory or cortisone. This stuff is awesome for getting rid of any leftover body soreness when they have been ouchy for a while. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | The reason I mention obtaining the appropriate diagnosis is because the treatment protocols are different based upon if this is a ligament injury vs osteoarthritis in the SI joint itself.
If it is a soft tissue injury, the horse is rested. If osteoarthritis, the horse is kept working.
It sounds to me like you are using the injection as a potential diagnostic tool, which is recommended, but personally I would want to find out from a pathology standpoint what is actually causing this pain physically. What type of injury. This is a fairly good article I read previously that talks more about it (http://www.thehorse.com/articles/14867/sacroiliac-joint-pain)
I personally will not run a horse who feels off without knowing what is wrong exactly.... I try to save my entries and get him back to 100% before running one, just because the long term wellness of my horse is what I strive for, especially since running barrels is just a hobby for me. I'm usually money ahead in doing so as I'm not wasting money on entry fees when I know my horse is not his best too. I just feel it is selfish to ask a horse to work through pain that cannot be managed. I know others will probably disagree, but that is how I feel.
Best of luck, I hope he's feeling better soon! | |
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Here we go again
Posts: 1581
| Barnmom - 2014-03-27 11:00 AM You may want to have someone check his whorlbones (trochantaric bursas) as they will get inflamed when there are long standing back end issues. Bursitis hurts and will make a horse not want to push off with thier back end.
RVI is an awesome "drug" for all over body soreness, so good that I believe it masked my mares kissing spine issues. I now only use it after I have my horses thoroughly vetted. You can get it without prescription from Allivet for $95 for six doses. Very important to give it under the skin or it will not work, also need to wait a week or so after injecting with any anti inflamitory or cortisone. This stuff is awesome for getting rid of any leftover body soreness when they have been ouchy for a while.
I agree about the RVI. Have used it before and really liked the results. Great results actually!!! Btw thanks for posting about getting it through Alivet w/o a script.. I didn't know that. Usually get it from one of our vets and I believe for that price. So thanks for sharing! | |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | Well, Chance is getting his injection or injections whichever it needs to be (still waiting on the vet's notes via email) Monday afternoon at a different vet who does them all the time. It was going to be late next week before Hickman could get back to Eureka to do them and I want to give him more time before Lincoln so I'm going to Matt's lameness vet instead. Planning to have the notes & everything for him to review so he knows exactly what the guys who have examined Chance want, but I won't be shocked if he wants to double check things first. I'm just glad they could get me in quickly. It was supposed to be this afternoon but they didn't have everything they needed on hand so have to delay it a few days, and I had to beg Dad into taking him. At least Dad is on my side this time and agrees that I shouldn't run him until I get this done. He may pass out when they tell him the price though cause I don't let anyone else see my vet bills LOL.
And I made an appointment to get Cliff looked over & adjusted if necessary next Thursday when Hickman is in Eureka. (Dad thinks its a good plan, Mom thinks I'm wasting money since he's not acting lame or sore - she would make a terrible barrel racer.....she is not nearly paranoid enough! LOL)
Edited by rodeowithjoker 2014-03-28 11:31 AM
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