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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 684
  
Location: Oklahoma | barrelracr131 - 2014-05-27 7:18 AM readytorodeo - 2014-05-26 6:12 PM daisycake123 - 2014-05-26 3:59 PM Where is the scientific eveidence. I see then at big shows selling but dont have any human or animal studies. Word of some famous person that they give one too. It is not like aquatread that helps condition a horse. I thnk it is a fad. There is articles on the website. Also they have fine thermography studies, showing increased blood flow /circulation.
I see some fundamental problems with using these studies as evidence for several reasons:
1) They are all performed on human subjects, not equine subjects
2) Many of the studies are not published, and the ones that are published did not seem (to me) to come from well-respected, peer reviewed scholarly journals
3) The samples sizes in many of these studies were extremely small (and therefore less statistcally significant)
4) Many of the studies did not show significant positive results in support of this therapy
5) They do not have studies supporting these claims (below), only testimonials:
How our customers are using it
Increases Circulation
Increases Bone Density (>30%)
Increases Muscle Mass
Reduces Swelling & Inflammation
Reduces Injuries
Faster Healing (2-3 times)
Improves Joint Health & Function
Improves Balance
Decreased Lameness
Prevent Bucked Shins
Improves Balance
Reduced Stress
Pain Relief
Increased Hoof Growth
Increased Digital Cushion Circulation
Maintain Muscle Mass - Stalled Horses
Warm Up/Warm Down
OCD
Sesamoiditis
Improves Joint Health & Function
Hocks and Stifles
Speed Fracture Healing
Improves Under Run Heels & Thin Soles
High Suspensory Injuries
Founder
Laminitis
EPM
Bleeders
Side note: I have noticed on the website they do not DIRECTLY say that the product does anything. They say "why our customers are using this", or just "why" in another section. That probably protects the company because they have a "satisfaction guarantee", so that in the event of the buyer not seeing the above results, they cannot use that as a reason for returning the produce for a full refund.(purely speculation on my end)
This is a pretty expensive therapy to invest in without significant evidence that the product does as advertised, JMO.
I can't imagine vibration would be very helpful in healing fractures? That seems really off to me. Also underrun heals?
hmmm....not convinced. lol | |
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 Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
 
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | I couldnt quote Allison properly with highlighted text but I wanted to address two things she brought up. One- the soft tissue. I am unsure how you can say they are bad for soft tissue when there is no evidence as you say for it-then where is the evidence or study against it??
As far as cost- yes the Theraplate is a hefty tag- which is why I say I chose the lesser off brand that is safety UL listed BTW:) So if your issue is cost to try a testimonial based product- then I would say have you priced a PHT blanket, poll pack, wraps, bell boots, soft rides with magnets- ect?
And if magnets run the risk of not much damage- yet vibration is unproven- I go back to my original statement above---where is the testimonial based evidence against vibration?
And while we are looking for eqine studies- does anyone have a link to equine studies on magnets? | |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | HotbearLVR - 2014-05-27 11:39 AM barrelracr131 - 2014-05-27 7:18 AM readytorodeo - 2014-05-26 6:12 PM daisycake123 - 2014-05-26 3:59 PM Where is the scientific eveidence. I see then at big shows selling but dont have any human or animal studies. Word of some famous person that they give one too. It is not like aquatread that helps condition a horse. I thnk it is a fad. There is articles on the website. Also they have fine thermography studies, showing increased blood flow /circulation.
I see some fundamental problems with using these studies as evidence for several reasons:
1) They are all performed on human subjects, not equine subjects
2) Many of the studies are not published, and the ones that are published did not seem (to me) to come from well-respected, peer reviewed scholarly journals
3) The samples sizes in many of these studies were extremely small (and therefore less statistcally significant)
4) Many of the studies did not show significant positive results in support of this therapy
5) They do not have studies supporting these claims (below), only testimonials:
How our customers are using it
Increases Circulation
Increases Bone Density (>30%)
Increases Muscle Mass
Reduces Swelling & Inflammation
Reduces Injuries
Faster Healing (2-3 times)
Improves Joint Health & Function
Improves Balance
Decreased Lameness
Prevent Bucked Shins
Improves Balance
Reduced Stress
Pain Relief
Increased Hoof Growth
Increased Digital Cushion Circulation
Maintain Muscle Mass - Stalled Horses
Warm Up/Warm Down
OCD
Sesamoiditis
Improves Joint Health & Function
Hocks and Stifles
Speed Fracture Healing
Improves Under Run Heels & Thin Soles
High Suspensory Injuries
Founder
Laminitis
EPM
Bleeders
Side note: I have noticed on the website they do not DIRECTLY say that the product does anything. They say "why our customers are using this", or just "why" in another section. That probably protects the company because they have a "satisfaction guarantee", so that in the event of the buyer not seeing the above results, they cannot use that as a reason for returning the produce for a full refund.(purely speculation on my end)
This is a pretty expensive therapy to invest in without significant evidence that the product does as advertised, JMO.
I don't know who came up with the idea of "vibrational medicine", but he must be in the running for "King of 20th Century Charlatans".
Anytime a person sees a wide, sweeping, almost exhaustive list of maladies that are "cured", this should be a red flag.
We all succumb to various unproven remedies and quackery from time to time, but this theraplate device is a wallet biopsy, in my opinion. I rank it right up there with coffee enemas and body wraps....and those things they had back in the 50's that featured a belt wrapped around your ass and it would jiggle back-and-forth, thus toning the ass muscles and melting the fat away.
Theraplate doesn't fit my definition of vibrational medicine. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | TurnLane - 2014-05-27 1:47 PM I couldnt quote Allison properly with highlighted text but I wanted to address two things she brought up. One- the soft tissue. I am unsure how you can say they are bad for soft tissue when there is no evidence as you say for it-then where is the evidence or study against it??
As far as cost- yes the Theraplate is a hefty tag- which is why I say I chose the lesser off brand that is safety UL listed BTW:) So if your issue is cost to try a testimonial based product- then I would say have you priced a PHT blanket, poll pack, wraps, bell boots, soft rides with magnets- ect?
And if magnets run the risk of not much damage- yet vibration is unproven- I go back to my original statement above---where is the testimonial based evidence against vibration?
And while we are looking for eqine studies- does anyone have a link to equine studies on magnets?
For the soft tissue issue, I am curious as to how vibrational therapy would be of benefit to a horse with, say, a DDFT tear. That horse would traditionally be on stall rest to prevent the area from tearing during the healing process (ie keeping the area still). That statement was partially based on other people's comments on this thread indicating they thought they would see a potential problem with this therapy for similar injuries.
And yes, I have a PHT blanket, as well as other therapy products (BOT). They are the cost of the large theraplate minus a zero, lol. I don't have issues with people spending money on these products, I'm just explaining why I'm not convinced based upon the information they provided on the website.
My point about the magnets is that a static charge is pretty unlikely to cause harm.
And as far as testimonials AGAINST vibration, well I highly doubt those would make print on the company website. And the fact that it could be harmful was nothing more than my own speculation!
I don't think the product has been widely tested enough in any sort of clinical setting to say if it is harmful or helpful for a horse, based upon what I have read.
As far as studies go for magnet therapies, I don't think they really exist.
Much in the way of all the supplements on the market, it does not really make sense for a company to test the effectiveness of a product if they are not required to do so. After all, they have nothing to gain and everything to lose from a fiscal standpoint. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| For all of you saying the Theraplate is bad, please show the documentation stating that. The Theraplate does increase blood flow. And as we all know that decreases healing time. As far as it hurting a horse or making an injury worse, there are different settings on the Theraplate . You need to watch your horse. If the higher setting is too much then lower it. You will gradually be able to use the higher settings. I have used it for a wide variety of issues and have been more than pleased with the results | |
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| Theraplate doesn't fit my definition of vibrational medicine.
Ummmm ... If this doesn't fit, what does?? I'm curious because their website clearly states "whole body vibration" therapy .... doesn't that count as vibrational medicine? Medicine is a type of therapy, right?
And Alison - YOU ARE SPOT ON! | |
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  Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | lindseylou2290 - 2014-05-27 4:02 PM Theraplate doesn't fit my definition of vibrational medicine. Ummmm ... If this doesn't fit, what does?? I'm curious because their website clearly states "whole body vibration" therapy .... doesn't that count as vibrational medicine? Medicine is a type of therapy, right?
And Alison - YOU ARE SPOT ON!
I could say something but I think we are supposed to stay PG rated at least :) | |
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 Go For It!
Location: Texas | readytorodeo - 2014-05-27 3:02 PM
For all of you saying the Theraplate is bad, please show the documentation stating that. The Theraplate does increase blood flow. And as we all know that decreases healing time. As far as it hurting a horse or making an injury worse, there are different settings on the Theraplate . You need to watch your horse. If the higher setting is too much then lower it. You will gradually be able to use the higher settings. I have used it for a wide variety of issues and have been more than pleased with the results
I understand that you own and use a Theraplate so it is difficult to for you to be totally open minded when people voice their concerns. By agreeing with them, then you would, in essence, be admitting to causing possible damage to your horse. No one wants to think that what they are doing to help their kids, animals, themselves… could actually be hurting them. Especially when they have spent big bucks to do it, lol. I think that although there is no absolute proof, either way, some people just don't want to take a chance that it could cause issues for their horse. If you are willing to take that chance then more power to you. We are all allowed to voice our opinion, either way. No one is trying to cause any hard feelings.
Good luck with your horses.
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 Expert
Posts: 2049
Location: Utah | readytorodeo - 2014-05-27 2:02 PM
For all of you saying the Theraplate is bad, please show the documentation stating that. The Theraplate does increase blood flow. And as we all know that decreases healing time. As far as it hurting a horse or making an injury worse, there are different settings on the Theraplate . You need to watch your horse. If the higher setting is too much then lower it. You will gradually be able to use the higher settings. I have used it for a wide variety of issues and have been more than pleased with the results
See, I personally don't believe that you will be able to use the higher settings on every horse or that it does in fact work for every horse. Sorry. My one horse would pretty much crawl out of his skin and 5 minutes at ANY setting (after trying for over 3 weeks) was too much for him, the most I got him to was 10 total minutes and I think 40 or maybe 50 and I had to have a chain on him to even get that. He just couldn't do it, and when I tried to keep him on it was a train wreck when I ran, I'm talking pretty much 1/2D all winter then on this and he would run off and not work. Took him off, went back to our old routines and he went right back to where he was. Do I think it might work for some, sure, my back felt better when I would lay on it; but is it a cure all, I don't think it is. I think it might have helped one of mine, but I also did some other things so I won't ever know for sure which it was. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| Snappy - 2014-05-27 10:05 PM readytorodeo - 2014-05-27 2:02 PM For all of you saying the Theraplate is bad, please show the documentation stating that. The Theraplate does increase blood flow. And as we all know that decreases healing time. As far as it hurting a horse or making an injury worse, there are different settings on the Theraplate . You need to watch your horse. If the higher setting is too much then lower it. You will gradually be able to use the higher settings. I have used it for a wide variety of issues and have been more than pleased with the results See, I personally don't believe that you will be able to use the higher settings on every horse or that it does in fact work for every horse. Sorry. My one horse would pretty much crawl out of his skin and 5 minutes at ANY setting (after trying for over 3 weeks ) was too much for him, the most I got him to was 10 total minutes and I think 40 or maybe 50 and I had to have a chain on him to even get that. He just couldn't do it, and when I tried to keep him on it was a train wreck when I ran, I'm talking pretty much 1/2D all winter then on this and he would run off and not work. Took him off, went back to our old routines and he went right back to where he was. Do I think it might work for some, sure, my back felt better when I would lay on it; but is it a cure all, I don't think it is. I think it might have helped one of mine, but I also did some other things so I won't ever know for sure which it was.
Believe me if I thought it was in any way hurting a horse I would not use it. I have seen it help a lot of horses. But each horse is different. I knownof one vet that uses it in his rehab facility and have talked to several vets that see no problem with using one. If there is any documentation showing it detrimental for horses I haven't seen it. And I did a lot of research before getting one. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | readytorodeo - 2014-05-27 3:02 PM For all of you saying the Theraplate is bad, please show the documentation stating that. The Theraplate does increase blood flow. And as we all know that decreases healing time. As far as it hurting a horse or making an injury worse, there are different settings on the Theraplate . You need to watch your horse. If the higher setting is too much then lower it. You will gradually be able to use the higher settings. I have used it for a wide variety of issues and have been more than pleased with the results
Do you have documentation showing that wbv therapy increases circulation from a study published in a peer reviewed journal using equines as the subject? | |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| barrelracr131 - 2014-05-28 5:12 AM readytorodeo - 2014-05-27 3:02 PM For all of you saying the Theraplate is bad, please show the documentation stating that. The Theraplate does increase blood flow. And as we all know that decreases healing time. As far as it hurting a horse or making an injury worse, there are different settings on the Theraplate . You need to watch your horse. If the higher setting is too much then lower it. You will gradually be able to use the higher settings. I have used it for a wide variety of issues and have been more than pleased with the results Do you have documentation showing that wbv therapy increases circulation from a study published in a peer reviewed journal using equines as the subject?
I'm going to ask you the same question, do you gave something saying it doesn't? If you don't want to use one that's ok and in your opinion it doesn't work. That's your option to not use it.
Edited by readytorodeo 2014-05-28 8:28 AM
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Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | barrelracr131 - 2014-05-27 2:20 PM TurnLane - 2014-05-27 1:47 PM I couldnt quote Allison properly with highlighted text but I wanted to address two things she brought up. One- the soft tissue. I am unsure how you can say they are bad for soft tissue when there is no evidence as you say for it-then where is the evidence or study against it??
As far as cost- yes the Theraplate is a hefty tag- which is why I say I chose the lesser off brand that is safety UL listed BTW:) So if your issue is cost to try a testimonial based product- then I would say have you priced a PHT blanket, poll pack, wraps, bell boots, soft rides with magnets- ect?
And if magnets run the risk of not much damage- yet vibration is unproven- I go back to my original statement above---where is the testimonial based evidence against vibration?
And while we are looking for eqine studies- does anyone have a link to equine studies on magnets? For the soft tissue issue, I am curious as to how vibrational therapy would be of benefit to a horse with, say, a DDFT tear. That horse would traditionally be on stall rest to prevent the area from tearing during the healing process (ie keeping the area still). That statement was partially based on other people's comments on this thread indicating they thought they would see a potential problem with this therapy for similar injuries.
And yes, I have a PHT blanket, as well as other therapy products (BOT). They are the cost of the large theraplate minus a zero, lol. I don't have issues with people spending money on these products, I'm just explaining why I'm not convinced based upon the information they provided on the website.
My point about the magnets is that a static charge is pretty unlikely to cause harm.
And as far as testimonials AGAINST vibration, well I highly doubt those would make print on the company website. And the fact that it could be harmful was nothing more than my own speculation!
I don't think the product has been widely tested enough in any sort of clinical setting to say if it is harmful or helpful for a horse, based upon what I have read.
As far as studies go for magnet therapies, I don't think they really exist.
Much in the way of all the supplements on the market, it does not really make sense for a company to test the effectiveness of a product if they are not required to do so. After all, they have nothing to gain and everything to lose from a fiscal standpoint.
I agree, I dont think magnetic therapy studies exist and talk about everyone and their dog uses them- at a lower per piece price- I would say volume of sales far exceeds any vibration therapy $$$$$$$ and everyone uses them. I think it may be a placebo effect but hey- I have them as well.
I think on soft tissue- like you brought up- it is the flexion often times that needs to be avoided and the vibration is a zero flexion stimulation that sends bloodflow from impact without movement- just my theory in my mind. I am not suggesting they are the cure all end all but if I believe ANY thing- I believe the foot is the life of the horse and the hoof is the place I want the most blood flow and the hardest place to get it. People try frog support, balancing the foot, isoxoprene (sp?) and all sorts of supplements for this reason.
But mainly I will say much like advertising- I see what others that I respect do differently or use and sometimes try it- point and case Tiany. Edwin has all the money in the world to use any therapy he wants. They used the Equivibe for years and had results yet saw ways to improve it. Does she ride great horses -- yes-- does this make them win? Likely not but if they have an unending budget and choose this device- Im all for trying it. And it is bar none the device I have used the most of any. My horse will drag me down the hall to get on it. Does it work-- I cant say but I do see increased growth and a thicker hoof wall. I like it. But above all things I believe in my vet and fda approved meds. 
So for the vast majority of those who spend their money on Apple Cider Vinegar that I am pretty sure has a list of cure alls as long as vibration-- more power to them--but they have as little proof as magnets, jello powder, ect. | |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | lindseylou2290 - 2014-05-27 3:02 PM Theraplate doesn't fit my definition of vibrational medicine. Ummmm ... If this doesn't fit, what does?? I'm curious because their website clearly states "whole body vibration" therapy .... doesn't that count as vibrational medicine? Medicine is a type of therapy, right?
And Alison - YOU ARE SPOT ON!
Colored lights, tuning forks. Making your body actually shake is very crude. I think it's scientifically proven that colors and sounds can affect mood and brain activity. Take it one step further and they can be used to promote a healing state--your body is quite capable of healing itself of most things. Sounds out there, but I've seen it work on migraines, gall bladder issues, and neurological problems. | |
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| missroselee - 2014-05-27 6:23 PM
lindseylou2290 - 2014-05-27 4:02 PM Theraplate doesn't fit my definition of vibrational medicine. Ummmm ... If this doesn't fit, what does?? I'm curious because their website clearly states "whole body vibration" therapy .... doesn't that count as vibrational medicine? Medicine is a type of therapy, right?
And Alison - YOU ARE SPOT ON!
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Expert
Posts: 2457
| Three 4 Luck - 2014-05-28 8:48 AM lindseylou2290 - 2014-05-27 3:02 PM Theraplate doesn't fit my definition of vibrational medicine. Ummmm ... If this doesn't fit, what does?? I'm curious because their website clearly states "whole body vibration" therapy .... doesn't that count as vibrational medicine? Medicine is a type of therapy, right?
And Alison - YOU ARE SPOT ON!
Yes, I can dig up peer reviewed journal articles on light therapy - especially red light wave length type therapy. I know that it works on deep tissue and promotes healing of nicked tendons. I have not seen a peer reviewed journal article for vibrational therapy/medicine ... I'd love to see one!
I agree, a body that is healthy except for a single injury can heal itself quite well. I think the hard part with the theraplate type therapy is to not stress or hurt something else while compensating for the original injury. Does that make sense or did I just muck it up?? | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | readytorodeo - 2014-05-28 8:22 AM barrelracr131 - 2014-05-28 5:12 AM readytorodeo - 2014-05-27 3:02 PM For all of you saying the Theraplate is bad, please show the documentation stating that. The Theraplate does increase blood flow. And as we all know that decreases healing time. As far as it hurting a horse or making an injury worse, there are different settings on the Theraplate . You need to watch your horse. If the higher setting is too much then lower it. You will gradually be able to use the higher settings. I have used it for a wide variety of issues and have been more than pleased with the results Do you have documentation showing that wbv therapy increases circulation from a study published in a peer reviewed journal using equines as the subject?
I'm not saying it doesn't work (and did not say that), I'm saying the science isn't there to support it- either way- because the effects of WBV therapy have not been studied on equines. Ever. (and if they have, link me the article por favor)
My ideas about injuries responding to WBV therapy were just that- ideas. Speculation.
However, my original point was that "the science" they were quoting on the company's site did not provide statistically significant data to support the claims made regarding expected results in horses. In other words, I am not yet convinced. As far as saying "it doesn't work", no one can do that with any confidence because this therapy has not been adequately studied in horses. | |
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 Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7622
Location: Dubach, LA | BARREL RACERS LOVE PRODUCTS!
At BBR in OKC, I watched the patch people, at $12 a set, have 'em lined up 5 or 6 deep. The lady with the magnawave, another vibrating tool, made a killing. There I stand with just my hands and a therapy that has 3,000 years of use and is extensively used by humans and I can't get a single customer! My health insurance started paying for massages 4 years ago! Massage has proven good results but gets overlooked in favor of the newest fad product.
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | CanCan - 2014-05-28 10:23 AM BARREL RACERS LOVE PRODUCTS!
At BBR in OKC, I watched the patch people, at $12 a set, have 'em lined up 5 or 6 deep. The lady with the magnawave, another vibrating tool, made a killing. There I stand with just my hands and a therapy that has 3,000 years of use and is extensively used by humans and I can't get a single customer! My health insurance started paying for massages 4 years ago! Massage has proven good results but gets overlooked in favor of the newest fad product.
I would have thought you would have customers if for no other reason than to watch you so they could then try to do it themselves. Then again, massage is WORK, so maybe not. | |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | barrelracr131 - 2014-05-27 2:20 PM TurnLane - 2014-05-27 1:47 PM I couldnt quote Allison properly with highlighted text but I wanted to address two things she brought up. One- the soft tissue. I am unsure how you can say they are bad for soft tissue when there is no evidence as you say for it-then where is the evidence or study against it??
As far as cost- yes the Theraplate is a hefty tag- which is why I say I chose the lesser off brand that is safety UL listed BTW:) So if your issue is cost to try a testimonial based product- then I would say have you priced a PHT blanket, poll pack, wraps, bell boots, soft rides with magnets- ect?
And if magnets run the risk of not much damage- yet vibration is unproven- I go back to my original statement above---where is the testimonial based evidence against vibration?
And while we are looking for eqine studies- does anyone have a link to equine studies on magnets? For the soft tissue issue, I am curious as to how vibrational therapy would be of benefit to a horse with, say, a DDFT tear. That horse would traditionally be on stall rest to prevent the area from tearing during the healing process (ie keeping the area still). That statement was partially based on other people's comments on this thread indicating they thought they would see a potential problem with this therapy for similar injuries.
And yes, I have a PHT blanket, as well as other therapy products (BOT). They are the cost of the large theraplate minus a zero, lol. I don't have issues with people spending money on these products, I'm just explaining why I'm not convinced based upon the information they provided on the website.
My point about the magnets is that a static charge is pretty unlikely to cause harm.
And as far as testimonials AGAINST vibration, well I highly doubt those would make print on the company website. And the fact that it could be harmful was nothing more than my own speculation!
I don't think the product has been widely tested enough in any sort of clinical setting to say if it is harmful or helpful for a horse, based upon what I have read.
As far as studies go for magnet therapies, I don't think they really exist.
Much in the way of all the supplements on the market, it does not really make sense for a company to test the effectiveness of a product if they are not required to do so. After all, they have nothing to gain and everything to lose from a fiscal standpoint.
It's very hard to find anything in Alison's remarks that is incorrect. All she is really trying to say is, Theraplate might actually be beneficial, but the sound scientific evidence that it definitely helps hasn't been cited. The question is do you have $6000 laying around to spend on a product that is unproven? The manufacturers of this device use articles that show, for example, that there is increased venous return, as seen in venograms, following the use of theraplate. The nice pictures of xrays that purport to demonstrate this may be impressive, but this "evidence" does not prove anything as far as effectiveness is concerned. I will admit that the article is a handy marketing tool. If increased venous flow was the answer to a given problem, I would think there are far less expensive ways of accomplishing this....ie: heat, isoxuprine, etc.....
To ask "Where is the proof that Theraplate therapy does NOT work?" is clever, but that's like asking "Where is the proof that there is NOT a candy-apple red '57 Chevy orbiting the moon?" Just because you can't prove something doesn't exist, doesn't mean it definitively exists. Proving a negative is usually much harder than proving a positive. Since there doesn't appear to be definitive proof that the Theraplate device does NOT work, the manufacturers of this device would like you to give it a try.....for $6000. I have a feeling that if I bought one of these contraptions, it would wind up in my garage next to my Bowflex.
If you want a few laughs, take a tour of the various quackery devices that have been promoted like Theraplate, such as the "Vibrometer":
http://www.museumofquackery.com/devices/vibrate.htm
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