NJJ - 2014-07-14 9:20 PM  Oh dear....are you sure? You seem way to smaaaaart to be a product of "public" schools"..........

komet. - 2014-07-14 4:29 PM I don't know that they could go in and take whatever they wanted... But citizens were required to provide room and board to British solders.

svincent - 2014-07-14 10:37 PM I'm a teacher, and generally speaking: a conservative. As far as common core - this assignment format IS definitely it. Yes, there's absolutely indoctrination of liberal views within the public school system; but as far as lesson format and expectations from the student, Common Core does MUCH better than most canned curriculums that have been used in classrooms in the past: think the reading books, then you do a worksheet, then you take a quiz - those suck. For anybody interested, google Bloom's Taxonomy. Common Core aims to move students hire up this scale, more analyzing and less blind memorizing. The materials, and subjects covered by any canned CC curriculum package will undoubtedly contain liberal indoctrination in some form or another; as a teacher, I take it as my job to teach BOTH sides of everything, while also guiding students into thinking for themselves. I LOVE LOVE LOVE when kids ask "why?" or "how come?" in my classroom - that's the point of education: to take your learning into your own hands and be responsible for the thoughts you think, form your own opinions, don't just follow blindly to where your "superiors" lead. This is a GREAT assignment.

foundation horse - 2014-07-14 10:50 AM


Please provide a specific as to where this lesson is located in a The Common Core Curriclum. Trust but verify ya' know.

Three 4 Luck - 2014-07-15 7:32 AM


 The things I'm seeing with CCSS in the younger grades is developmentally inappropriate.  It's further eroding an already messed up educational institution by leaving holes in foundations, expecting advanced brain skills of little kids who mostly are not capable of grasping the abstract concepts yet, ignoring IEPs (happened to my nephew), and further increasing desk time in a desperate attempt to get these little ones ready for a standardized test that everything depends on.  Some child development experts have likened it to abuse.  Actual educators were not involved in the writing of the standards.  The 2 that were invited to participate (apparently for the sake of appearances) refused to sign off on them because they were not well done.

another problem that is happening, and this is more-so with the higher grades is the polar opposite of the little kids:  using the minimums set in the standards as the end-all, be-all and no longer offering the more advanced classes.  Some schools are phasing out AP and honors classes in order to put their money into new materials that are CCSS aligned and remedial materials.  Pearson and their ilk are nothing but a racket.  Let's sell confusing, mistake-ridden text books and worksheets that align with the new standards, write a test meant to fail most kids, and then they will sell you the remedial materials to supposedly fix the problem.  It's all about money.

I was lucky enough to start school before the reform movement caught on, so I remember the difference.  The more the government tinkers with education, the worse they mess it up.  Go back to local control and let the teachers teach, let the kids be kids.  Bring back recess!   The current situation makes me furious.

svincent - 2014-07-15 12:04 PM CCSS is FAR from perfect, but the actual standards that are set, are a step in the right direction for getting students to move into the higher levels of processing. The CCSS is just STANDARDS. It is NOT a curriculum. The problems you mentioned stem from a poorly designed CURRICULUM program. These are two different things. Company's like Houghton/Mifflin take the standards and then have to develop a lesson/unit/scope&sequence package to FIT those standards (there are TONS of curriculum companies). It is up to each state/district to decide what curriculum packages from what companies will be used. If you look at the actual standards, they set excellent goals as far as processing goes. For example: a teacher using CCSS would ask students WHY the Revolutionary War happened, and back up their answer; while another teacher might simply drill the important dates of the Revolutionary War time period. The standards, especially for RLA do not dictate a curriculum at all - that is solely the responsibility of the individual districts and/or states. Most confusion that I have heard about stems from the math standards in particular, and I can definitely see where the frustration comes from. The CCSS aims to teach students the mathematical THEORY, with less focus on the predetermined algorithm. CCSS aims for students to understand what is happening when you "borrow" in subtraction or "carry over" in addition. Many students just do these algorithms blindly with no understanding of what they are actually doing: manipulating the place values. Again, the standards themselves are vague and are at the mercy of the curriculum companies, who may or may not develop an effective approach to teaching these standards. I've seen CCSS math taught EXTRAORDINARILY well, but have definitely seen it taught in the most complicated, confusing way possible. The biggest problem I've seen is when teachers try to FORCE students into the theoretical processes instead of helping them to get there at their own speed. Kids CAN AND DO get to the theoretical math - but everyone goes a different speed. The higher-level thinkers might jump right into the theoretical, while the lower-level thinkers might need extra scaffolding and modeling to get there. I've also seen the frustration that comes when a student gets the correct answer, but not necessarily in the exact steps the teacher wants. This isn't the fault of CCSS, this is the fault of poor teaching. All CCSS asks of students in math is that they be able to explain their work/answer - which is something I've always required in my classroom. When a teacher decides to punish students for not doing it "the way I want you to", that is just flat out poor teaching. That would be the same as me telling my toddler he was tying his shoes "wrong" because he was using the "bunny ear" method instead of the "around the tree" method. Shoes got tied? Math got done? Is there a level of understanding deep enough that the student can explain his thinking? Good, then the teacher needs to shut up. *keep in mind, while it is poor teaching - the school admin might be doing a poor job supporting their teachers in implementing whatever curriculum package they chose. So, the teacher is not necessarily a bad teacher, but may be struggling temporarily. CCSS is still very new, curriculum companies are still trying to figure it out, so are teachers and administrators. I just hate to see the CCSS totally demonized because of bad implementation - because there is SO much more behind what is seen in the classroom than just the CCSS. *sorry for typos or any craziness. I'm on my phone and didn't want to proofread :)

foundation horse - 2014-07-15 1:49 PM


Do Teachers need to be reminded that teaching to a 'standard' is not truly teaching, but in essence creating a production line type mentality? Students meet a minimum bar under standards, remember?
Also, every one learns differently and per the exposure to the Common Core Plans that I have there are alternate methods for students to learn.
Folks, again I state there is a problem with Common Core! Both from the money trail via Companies who are selling, implementing and servicing CC and from The Current Day Politically Correct Platitudes that waver in the wind and do not follow the founding of This Great Country!

Needless to say I do not trust or accept The Common Core Cirruculum.

foundation horse - 2014-07-15 1:49 PMDo Teachers need to be reminded that teaching to a 'standard' is not truly teaching, but in essence creating a production line type mentality? Students meet a minimum bar under standards, remember?
Also, every one learns differently and per the exposure to the Common Core Plans that I have there are alternate methods for students to learn.
Folks, again I state there is a problem with Common Core! Both from the money trail via Companies who are selling, implementing and servicing CC and from The Current Day Politically Correct Platitudes that waver in the wind and do not follow the founding of This Great Country!

Needless to say I do not trust or accept The Common Core Cirruculum.

svincent - 2014-07-15 2:28 PM I think you're looking for the evil in this. Standards don't say "this is all you have to teach" - standards just set a minimum (like you said). There will of course be teachers that teach only to that minimum, but these aren't great teachers, and should probably reevaluate their career choice. They'd be lazy teachers no matter what curriculum you handed them, or what standards you held them to. There have always been state standards to be met. People (including yourself) also keep confusing "curriculum" with "standard". They are not the same. And most problems that people have with the CCSS are ACTUALLY with the chosen curriculum - which is a problem that needs to be addressed at the district level. I'm not arguing that there are problems with the implementation of CCSS, because there absolutely are. I'm just trying to explain it from the side of a teacher: there's a lot more behind what parents see in the classroom, and none of it can be fairly blamed solely on one person, curriculum, or standard. :)

sodapop - 2014-07-15 2:49 PM  I don't know how every state works, but most have the same standards across the state in every district that must be followed. In Oklahoma each district is not able to create their own standards. Each district much follow what is required by the state. The individual district can decide or design their own curriculum. My district makes all of the information available to parents. The biggest issue with Common Core is not really the standards themselves. Although some of the standards for the very young ones are not developmentally appropriate. It is all the other requirements for assessment that pose the biggest choke hold. Oklahoma was in and now Oklahoma has passed on them for that reason... as well as some of the other concerns people have.

foundation horse - 2014-07-15 2:47 PM

The bottom line question is:

Just who is in charge of a Child's Education? The Parent (who funds it via taxmonies paid or other fees) or The Teacher who implements via a Method/Technique/Lesson Plan etc?

My personal answer: I, The Parent, am! It is my job as a Parent to make My Child gets a better opporunity than I had. And implementing CCCS w/o Parental Knowledge or Consent defeats this from the get go. Research my reference to Horace Mann from the mid 1800s in this thread and Ya'll will understand what I am talking about.
 

foundation horse - 2014-07-15 2:52 PMYour post illustrates control. Just who is in control? The State or The Citizens?

svincent - 2014-07-15 2:34 PM

Forgot to add: teaching to a standard is not the same as "teaching to the test". Standards are MEANT only as a general guide to what should be covered. They are not a set-in-stone list of subjects that need to be covered. Again, great teachers will do with the standards whatever they can to expand the learning, while lazy teachers are more than happy to just do the minimum and/or teach to a standardized test.

Three 4 Luck - 2014-07-15 3:12 PM


There IS a problem with the actual standards for younger children. I have read some articles where some of the K-3 standards were dissected and it explained WHY most of their little brains aren't ready for what is being asked. Not every single standard is bad, but many of them are. I assure you I know the difference in standards and curriculum. The standards drive the testing which drives the curriculum. The same company providing curriculum materials, testing materials, and remediation materials, which also, not so incidentally, participated in writing the standards and then selling them is ethically wrong. The fact that so many states adopted CCSS BEFORE IT WAS WRITTEN for the sake of RTTT grants and NCLB waivers from the federal government makes me see red and distrust the state.

Entire school districts are, in their own words, "teaching to meet the standards, not exceed them." I have a huge problem with that.