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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
  
| Unethical, if not cheating. I thought that was luck of the draw? I wouldn't do it and if I was looking for a horse and I knew someone did this I wouldn't look at their horses because I couldn't trust the times they said the horse ran. I am usually to busy taking care of my horse to know who runs what so I rely on sellers using the horse's name not a number for identification of winnings. |
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  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
 
| Just Bring It - 2014-08-14 3:58 PM Whiteboy - 2014-08-14 3:46 PM roxieannie - 2014-08-14 3:34 PM If its not in the rules, not cheating. If you dont get caught it isn't stealing either, right?
Let me rephrase it for you: Just becasue it is legal doesn't mean it is right. This comes down to a moral issue, if in fact the rider is switching horses based on the draw, then it is wrong even if it isn't against the written rules. Loose interpretation of the rules (for personal gain) is what has taken our country to the mess we are in now. |
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 Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | Most running who want the top of the ground will pay their entry fee at the last barrel to gaurantee to be in the first ten. You can argue that the first fifty get the best deal if you want. If your first or last if you can't run with the big dogs you need up your game. Train your horse. Feed your horse. And be able to ride and run against the best. The ground doesn't have anything do with winning. It's how you make your run.  |
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 Fact Checker
Posts: 16575
Location: Displaced Iowegian | cow pie - 2014-08-14 5:27 PM Most running who want the top of the ground will pay their entry fee at the last barrel to gaurantee to be in the first ten. You can argue that the first fifty get the best deal if you want. If your first or last if you can't run with the big dogs you need up your game. Train your horse. Feed your horse. And be able to ride and run against the best. The ground doesn't have anything do with winning. It's how you make your run.
Additionally, if the entries are to be run by "random" draw, whether or not it is "specifically" stated in the rules, it is cheating to CHANGE that draw.......Why do you suppose they ask for the horse's name? Why do you suppose they HAVE a "random draw"? To make it fair for EVERYONE ????? Not just the one's who consider themselves "special" ????
Edited by NJJ 2014-08-14 5:46 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 448
Location: lone star state | I don't feel its cheating. At the really big jackpots the ground is not an issue any more. The producers in my area have gone to great lengths to ensure a fair playing field for everyone who enters. I agree that people who sell horses may use the system to misrepresent horses but as a competitor i don't see it as cheating and agree with the many different reasons already mentioned as why a competitor would enter and not put a horses name. |
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 Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | I guess I am just too busy worrying about myself to care when someone runs. I guess if I was tired of getting my butt handed to me by this same person over and over I would find some excuse for why they are beating me...lol. But honestly if this person was some no name from down the road that brought 5 backyard pets that all were lucky to even place in the bottom of the 4D would you notice? Or care? There is a lady around here that runs a few horses in the exact same order at every run and because most of our local runs aren't very big she is ALWAYS in the first drag (she is usually first or 2nd out) on one certain horse. Do I care? Nope! Not one bit. It doesn't effect me any. I am there to do MY best and not care when someone else runs. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 415
| Yikes... like I said if it really bothered me I would have said something a long time ago... Was just curious if there are rules like that out there because it seems like there would be. And if there is not, well I know how to enter my horses next time. Haha!
And for the record, I have congratulated this person I am talking about in the past about some results I had seen that showed her young/green horse as winning the barrel race and she laughed it off and said oh no that was my good horse I ran in his spot. I don't think she thinks much of it, but seems a little off to me for results to be posted incorrectly like that. |
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Location: stumbling around BHW | NJJ - 2014-08-14 5:44 PM
cow pie - 2014-08-14 5:27 PM Most running who want the top of the ground will pay their entry fee at the last barrel to gaurantee to be in the first ten. You can argue that the first fifty get the best deal if you want. If your first or last if you can't run with the big dogs you need up your game. Train your horse. Feed your horse. And be able to ride and run against the best. The ground doesn't have anything do with winning. It's how you make your run.
Additionally, if the entries are to be run by "random" draw, whether or not it is "specifically" stated in the rules, it is cheating to CHANGE that draw.......Why do you suppose they ask for the horse's name? Why do you suppose they HAVE a "random draw"? To make it fair for EVERYONE ????? Not just the one's who consider themselves "special" ????
but everyone is running on the hard pan, the deep dirt, the mud. They do not swap arena conditions. after the first 50 or so, its all deep anyway..I have sat through 700 horses running to think I was gonna draw a check and have the last horse come in and move it and win it and put me out of the money in one of the lower Ds....It was joe be jammin in Shelbyville TN about 15 years ago...those other 700 horses did not mean squat...HE WON IT...lets face it...there are days when your just out horsed...get over it, go home and ride more and harder..I am more hacked off, when I am the reason my horse gets outrun...not when someone outruns me...lol..
Edited by msrockinrhard 2014-08-14 7:56 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1226
| I have seen this at local jackpot but never at big races. Most of the producers make you put a horses name down. But I guess that doesn't mean just cause a horses name is down you can just swap them out. Especially if you don't use registered names |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| heidiinaz - 2014-08-14 8:24 PM
I have seen this at local jackpot but never at big races. Most of the producers make you put a horses name down. But I guess that doesn't mean just cause a horses name is down you can just swap them out. Especially if you don't use registered names
They can and they do. |
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | Just Bring It - 2014-08-14 5:47 PM
I guess I am just too busy worrying about myself to care when someone runs. I guess if I was tired of getting my butt handed to me by this same person over and over I would find some excuse for why they are beating me...lol. But honestly if this person was some no name from down the road that brought 5 backyard pets that all were lucky to even place in the bottom of the 4D would you notice? Or care? There is a lady around here that runs a few horses in the exact same order at every run and because most of our local runs aren't very big she is ALWAYS in the first drag (she is usually first or 2nd out) on one certain horse. Do I care? Nope! Not one bit. It doesn't effect me any. I am there to do MY best and not care when someone else runs.
^Exactly..... I'm way too busy getting ready for my run to give a rip what anyone else does. |
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Expert
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| Ground was to hard, ground was to soft.... |
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 Expert
Posts: 1440
Location: Texas | Get over it. There are more serious things in The world to be worried about! Sorry having a BAD day and this whole topic seemed juvenile |
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 Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
Location: Louisiana | I really could care less if someone swaps their horse. I think a horse that is running/turning hard enough to win isn't going to be that bothered by being 5th on the dirt. It's kinda whatever. Honestly, I don't look at what everyone writes as their horse's name... 9 times out of 10 I write T-Bo, not "Flamboyant Flit". Not to cheat equistat...I really don't care about equistat, I don't know if producers even use it around here, and I will never sell T-Bo anyway.
But for argument sake I looked up the flier of the last barrel race I entered. Here's what it had to say about the matter, "MULTIPLE HORSE RIDERS MUST RIDE THE HORSES IN THE ORDER AS LISTED ON ENTRY FORM & POSTED IN THE DRAW OR YOU WILL BE DISQUALIFIED." This sounds like if you list 2 horses, they will put your runs in that order. Problem solved.
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Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
Location: Louisiana | msrockinrhard - 2014-08-14 7:55 PM NJJ - 2014-08-14 5:44 PM cow pie - 2014-08-14 5:27 PM Most running who want the top of the ground will pay their entry fee at the last barrel to gaurantee to be in the first ten. You can argue that the first fifty get the best deal if you want. If your first or last if you can't run with the big dogs you need up your game. Train your horse. Feed your horse. And be able to ride and run against the best. The ground doesn't have anything do with winning. It's how you make your run.
Additionally, if the entries are to be run by "random" draw, whether or not it is "specifically" stated in the rules, it is cheating to CHANGE that draw.......Why do you suppose they ask for the horse's name? Why do you suppose they HAVE a "random draw"? To make it fair for EVERYONE ????? Not just the one's who consider themselves "special" ???? but everyone is running on the hard pan, the deep dirt, the mud. They do not swap arena conditions. after the first 50 or so, its all deep anyway..I have sat through 700 horses running to think I was gonna draw a check and have the last horse come in and move it and win it and put me out of the money in one of the lower Ds....It was joe be jammin in Shelbyville TN about 15 years ago...those other 700 horses did not mean squat...HE WON IT...lets face it.. .there are days when your just out horsed...get over it, go home and ride more and harder..I am more hacked off, when I am the reason my horse gets outrun...not when someone outruns me...lol..
All of this but mainly the highlighted part!! My feelings exactly. |
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 Queen Boobie mascot
Posts: 706
Location: Mayerthorpe Alberta | Just pondering what happens at the big races where there is a short go or two runs making an average. How do you know the correct horse is running in the short go, or places correctly in an average?
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | lurker - 2014-08-15 8:28 AM Just pondering what happens at the big races where there is a short go or two runs making an average. How do you know the correct horse is running in the short go, or places correctly in an average?
They put hip numbers on them before you run. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 415
| barrelbasher - 2014-08-14 10:55 PM
Get over it. There are more serious things in The world to be worried about! Sorry having a BAD day and this whole topic seemed juvenile
Then maybe you didn't need to post and could have kept your negative comments to yourself?
Asking about the rules of a barrel race on a barrel racing forum seems pretty legit to me.
Hope you have a better day. |
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 Damn Yankee
Posts: 12390
Location: Somewhere between raising hell and Amazing Grace | I haven't read through all the responses. Is it cheating? Maybe, maybe not. I want to run two horses this weekend. But if I do I HAVE to run one horse first, then the other horse second. However, I did not pre enter the first horse. So both horses will be add ons. And I don't think I would be allowed to demand that they put a certain horse before the other, and I refuse to enter as horse 1 and horse 2. So I am only running one horse. I can't run the other horse first because he needs special attention afterwards, and i get frazzled over it.
But rather then blame the rider, blame the producer as well. They are the ones allowing it. NBHA won't allow it on the east coast. Even at our local shows (east coast shows), if you didn't name your horse on the entry they won't put you in the draw until you do. At least if you are running multiples. But at the local shows I have usually been able to ask for my second horse to be put on the very end. Just don't want to ask that at a big show. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 415
| It is certainly interesting to hear everyone's opinions. However, let me just be clear that I was purely asking if there are rules against this or not, because I do not know, but it seems like there would be, and in turn would make it "cheating"... and if there are rules(which it seems like maybe there are some places, and maybe there are not at others) are they really ever enforced? Or is it "no big deal". Thanks again for the useful responses to my question. This was a post about RULES AT BARREL RACES... and I think it was a relevant question. Of course I am more concerned about my run and my horses, but I did have a question on the RULES and this seemed like a good place to ask, but maybe I was wrong on that part! Yikes. |
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