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Worlds Greatest Laugh
   
Location: North Dakota | I might be one of the few people that think its not about the bit. I can tell you from experience and fixing 2-3 of these type of horses that its sooooo not about the bit that I just want to scream. But thats just me.
The reason why your finding it difficult to fix and not getting far..fast...is because as barrel racers we make everything about the face, the head, the front of the horse. This problem is REALLY about the backend and the horse not respecting your ques to move forward and move their feet. I can GUARANTEE (about 99.9%) of the time its about a horse thats not been taught to move up properly from BEHIND into the bit.
I know alot of times we think to ourselves "oh no, your wrong. My horse is properly broke, is soft, is responsive". I'm telling you a horse thats throwing their head, hiding behind the bit, doing all this other stuff that your saying...99% will have a body control issue and not a face issue. Putting less bridle on isnt always the answer because they will just lean downward on it. I can also guarantee if you dont ride her up from behind PROPERLY its tough tough tough to fix.
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 Lady Di
Posts: 21556
 
Location: Oklahoma | RnRJack - 2015-02-27 11:03 AM
Here's a photo her her, I use split reins any time I ride, this was an exhibition
See, in this pic, this mare is not carrying herself correctly. She's got her head up, her back hollowed out, and she's not driving up underneath with her hind legs. A bonnet will help that. In my opinion, the German martingale is not helping your problem. She needs to collect from the back end and round her back. Tiedowns pull in the nose and she's already breaking at the poll too much, so not sure a tiedown would help. A bonnet, though, would allow her to get her nose out while keeping her ears down. JMO |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| If you say she is wadding up and staying too square then she sounds more of a roll back style. She's probably naturally very light mouthed from what your describing. I'd focus on getting her moving her front end quicker around the barrels because if she is wadding up she's probably getting hung up on the backside. I'd like to see a video. She's just four and probably takes those extra strides past the barrel because she doesn't know how to move her front end on around quickly and gets "tangled" on the back side. Usually most people have good luck with a twisted wire bonnet and a short shank bit on these types of horses. No draw reins or other gimmicks on horses with naturally light mouths, cherish that light mouth it is a gift! Using those gimmicks will just give her NO release and make her mouth hard. |
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | Runnincat - 2015-02-27 12:18 PM I might be one of the few people that think its not about the bit. I can tell you from experience and fixing 2-3 of these type of horses that its sooooo not about the bit that I just want to scream. But thats just me.
The reason why your finding it difficult to fix and not getting far..fast...is because as barrel racers we make everything about the face, the head, the front of the horse. This problem is REALLY about the backend and the horse not respecting your ques to move forward and move their feet. I can GUARANTEE (about 99.9%) of the time its about a horse thats not been taught to move up properly from BEHIND into the bit.
I know alot of times we think to ourselves "oh no, your wrong. My horse is properly broke, is soft, is responsive". I'm telling you a horse thats throwing their head, hiding behind the bit, doing all this other stuff that your saying...99% will have a body control issue and not a face issue. Putting less bridle on isnt always the answer because they will just lean downward on it. I can also guarantee if you dont ride her up from behind PROPERLY its tough tough tough to fix.
And sometimes you need someone like Runnincat to ride your horse and remind you the things you once knew! 
I always ASSUME that when someone comes on here wanting a bit change that they have tried EVERYTHING they possibly can to fix the problem before resorting to a bit change. |
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 Go For It!
Location: Texas | dianeguinn - 2015-02-27 1:11 PM
RnRJack - 2015-02-27 11:03 AM
Here's a photo her her, I use split reins any time I ride, this was an exhibition
See, in this pic, this mare is not carrying herself correctly. She's got her head up, her back hollowed out, and she's not driving up underneath with her hind legs. A bonnet will help that. In my opinion, the German martingale is not helping your problem. She needs to collect from the back end and round her back. Tiedowns pull in the nose and she's already breaking at the poll too much, so not sure a tiedown would help. A bonnet, though, would allow her to get her nose out while keeping her ears down. JMO
For those that are following this I want to point something out here... Sorry RnR I'm going to use you to get it done, lol. This is stuff that all barrel racers need to learn. (Then I'll watch and help you). If you look at this picture the horse is in the same frame as the rider. She is mimicking the rider's body position. The rider's hands are elevated, she is leaning forward and riding heavy in her stirrups... It has the mare more hollow through her back which causes her to be a bit "strung out" and not using her "motor" (rear end) properly. The correct way to get a horse into frame is to sit deep in your saddle pushing your pelvis forward, low hands held just above your pommel, keep less weight in the stirrups and use your thighs more than your feet when doing slow work or exercising. Your horse will mimic that body position as well. But first we need to fix that issue of avoiding the bit.
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 Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | Use me and abuse me as long as I learn something!
And yA it would be nice to have someone ride and train my horses...but then I may never learn :) |
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | RnRJack - 2015-02-27 3:07 PM Use me and abuse me as long as I learn something! And yA it would be nice to have someone ride and train my horses...but then I may never learn :)
Just to clarify Runnincat rode my gelding for 20 minutes one time to help remind me of the things I needed to do and to clear up my frustration.
One thing I learned long ago, is don't be afraid of suggestions, learning is a process that takes MANY failures before you get it right, never be too afraid to ask someone to get on and give it a whirl, feel is only as good as the rider on the horses back and even after those horses (and 30 yrs experience)I've trained I still need someone else to blow the cobwebs out from time to time. :) |
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Veteran
Posts: 147
| Those who are talking about riding the hindend getting round lifting the back thus driving the hocks up underneath the horse are right on!!! So hard to find barrel racers who truly understand you ride the body and not the mouth!!! |
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Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | Well I'll post a couple videos, one from June 2014 and one from dev 2014 I don't have any recent uploaded
Pleaseeeeee be easy on me, I am no professional trainer I only train my own with all the help I can get.
http://youtu.be/sCl7rgXGTTE
http://youtu.be/-nIAA1CoN7M
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Veteran
Posts: 147
| LMS - 2015-02-27 2:48 PM
Runnincat - 2015-02-27 12:18 PM I might be one of the few people that think its not about the bit. I can tell you from experience and fixing 2-3 of these type of horses that its sooooo not about the bit that I just want to scream. But thats just me.
The reason why your finding it difficult to fix and not getting far..fast...is because as barrel racers we make everything about the face, the head, the front of the horse. This problem is REALLY about the backend and the horse not respecting your ques to move forward and move their feet. I can GUARANTEE (about 99.9%) of the time its about a horse thats not been taught to move up properly from BEHIND into the bit.
I know alot of times we think to ourselves "oh no, your wrong. My horse is properly broke, is soft, is responsive". I'm telling you a horse thats throwing their head, hiding behind the bit, doing all this other stuff that your saying...99% will have a body control issue and not a face issue. Putting less bridle on isnt always the answer because they will just lean downward on it. I can also guarantee if you dont ride her up from behind PROPERLY its tough tough tough to fix.
And sometimes you need someone like Runnincat to ride your horse and remind you the things you once knew! I always ASSUME that when someone comes on here wanting a bit change that they have tried EVERYTHING they possibly can to fix the problem before resorting to a bit change.
Right on |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| RnRJack - 2015-02-27 3:25 PM
Well I'll post a couple videos, one from June 2014 and one from dev 2014 I don't have any recent uploaded
Pleaseeeeee be easy on me, I am no professional trainer I only train my own with all the help I can get.
http://youtu.be/sCl7rgXGTTE
http://youtu.be/-nIAA1CoN7M
I just watched the first video, what I noticed right at the beginning you bounced on her mouth when she was preparing to run in the alley.
Also when the mare left her turns, she was wringing her tail, from what I see in the pictures, and this, I suspect a pain issue.
I would get a vet exam completed with flexion, and xray of the hind end
As well as pelvic ultrasound to rule out female problems |
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | Ok the only video available is the florida state finals, so that's the only one I watched but IMO, your mare is hock sore....at the point she is supposed to be putting a leg in the dirt she is tucking her head. The wringing tail is an indicator too. IF she were mine (and she looks like a dandy mare) I would have some xrays done ASAP. |
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Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | She had been checked from head to toe because of the tail swishing, she sees the chiropractor regular (kit from animal crackers, bob Boston and another lady I've been using has adjusted her). I also do 10s unit and massage. To me she's just a moody gritty mare.
I don't believe Shes hock sore.
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 The Bling Princess
Posts: 3411
Location: North Dakota | I agree with LMS your mare looks sore. They shouldn't bunny hop around the turn with their legs together like that. Sore hocks can also cause them to elevate their heads and get strung out. An X-ray is nice to make sure there isn't any bony changes, but it's not going to detect inflammation. If she were mine I'd pull rads to have a baseline and inject her. It's really important that they are feeling good in their hindends In order to push them up into the bridle like what Runnincat was talking about. If they don't you won't get that true impulsion from the hind. Maybe she's comes off as moody because she is sore as Heck. |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Id check hocks and check ovaries.. shes sore Im surprised trainers havent picked up on that though .. |
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Go For It!
Location: Texas |
I'm really surprised that you guys are so focused on the horse in that video... The rider is the first thing I notice. You can't get a good indication of what the horse is, if the rider is out of shape through the entire pattern. (RnR, just ignore this, lol, it's not said to offend you at all). I think that this is a huge problem in our industry. If the horse isn't working correctly then it needs to go to the vet and get injected or we need a different bit. It's the first thing people do.
If my horse makes mistakes in a run the absolute first thing I do is wonder what I did, lol. If a horse is sore I see it WAY before it becomes an issue at the barrels...
I'm going to start a new thread about this... WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY HORSE???
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | grinan dbareit - 2015-02-27 7:24 PM I'm really surprised that you guys are so focused on the horse in that video... The rider is the first thing I notice. You can't get a good indication of what the horse is, if the rider is out of shape through the entire pattern. (RnR, just ignore this, lol, it's not said to offend you at all). I think that this is a huge problem in our industry. If the horse isn't working correctly then it needs to go to the vet and get injected or we need a different bit. It's the first thing people do. If my horse makes mistakes in a run the absolute first thing I do is wonder what I did, lol. If a horse is sore I see it WAY before it becomes an issue at the barrels... I'm going to start a new thread about this... WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY HORSE???
i agree with you i also cant see rider very well.. its to small
Edited by Bibliafarm 2015-02-27 6:32 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | Look, I'm no dummy, don't you think the first thing I ever noticed was her tail ringing? You have no idea how much money I have spent to check that mare and make sure she's strong and sound. She's had a full bet check when I bought her and other issues I addressed, this is why I didn't want to post the video. Plus it's easy to point things out when you're not the one doing it yourself.
I understand I have a lot to learn still but I've come this far and I'm not stopping now, so thank you to those of you who have helped and encouraged and pointed out things I need to change about my riding.
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | RnRJack - 2015-02-27 7:53 PM Look, I'm no dummy, don't you think the first thing I ever noticed was her tail ringing? You have no idea how much money I have spent to check that mare and make sure she's strong and sound. She's had a full bet check when I bought her and other issues I addressed, this is why I didn't want to post the video. Plus it's easy to point things out when you're not the one doing it yourself. I understand I have a lot to learn still but I've come this far and I'm not stopping now, so thank you to those of you who have helped and encouraged and pointed out things I need to change about my riding.
I think the point being made is a differant bit may not help the issue until other things are addressed..that is all.. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
| grinandbareit - 2015-02-27 4:24 PM
I'm really surprised that you guys are so focused on the horse in that video... The rider is the first thing I notice. You can't get a good indication of what the horse is, if the rider is out of shape through the entire pattern. (RnR, just ignore this, lol, it's not said to offend you at all). I think that this is a huge problem in our industry. If the horse isn't working correctly then it needs to go to the vet and get injected or we need a different bit. It's the first thing people do.
If my horse makes mistakes in a run the absolute first thing I do is wonder what I did, lol. If a horse is sore I see it WAY before it becomes an issue at the barrels...
I'm going to start a new thread about this... WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY HORSE???
I agree. The horse isn't really the problem so much as rider timing and balance. Coming out of the first the rider gets popped back. Then goes to one rein pretty early which is fine, but asks the horse to come in too soon and then has to rein off and then come in again to turn. This throws off the 2nd barrel which makes the 3rd barrel set up bad. It all started leaving that 1st barrel. You just get better timing by riding more and practicing more. It's not a knock on anyone, but the more you practice, the easier it gets. I would try and sit real sit and work on what my hands and seat are doing. Then as I got better work on increasing the speed. That horse looks like it wants to be nice and has the "go" when asked. |
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