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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7550
   
Location: In The Land of Cotton | Three 4 Luck - 2015-04-22 2:59 PM SG. - 2015-04-22 1:47 PM Chicken litter and cow manure aren't sprayed they are spread and there is no drift on spread No, but it will stink up the atmosphere for miles around. LOL which was my point--just because you smell it doesn't necessarily mean where you are is contaminated. I get what zebra is saying, and accidents DO happen, but they are rare. Or should be. And anything used on pasture or hay, if the label is followed (as required by law ), residue will not be a problem because the chemical will have broken down long before an animal sees it. All that is tested out thoroughly before being approved. It's tough to get new products to market these days. Think about this. Deer get in fields and eat with no respect for re-entry times or grazing restrictions and they are exposed to things we wouldn't use on hay or pasture. They eat every part of GMO crops. And yet, I haven't seen any sort of decline or unthriftiness in the deer population.
Heck, my husband thinks when he sprays it brings the deer out. We have herds of up to 50 a night out eating. | |
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Location: Big Blue Skies | This makes sense when I was feeding ADM grain I had 2 horses that acted odd. Nervous and spooky. I thought maybe it was a slight case of EPM but now I wonder if it was the Patriot. I stopped feeding it because I switched to Bryant and those problems stopped. | |
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 Regular
Posts: 63
| 3canstorun - 2015-04-22 1:53 PM
Zebra racer - 2015-04-22 2:27 PM It is like testing feed though. You can test for specs such as protein fiber and so on but it is a whole different feed test to look for contaminants like ionophores. Your local extension agency doesn't test for bad stuff. I even think you have to ask them to test specifically for what ever thing you are searching for. So can hay be tested for poisonous residue? When you test soil they test for nitrogen and so on. So has anyone tested for poison on grass and hay or can you even test for that? My feed was not tested by the local extension agent, but he was quite helpful.  I have more sense then you imply. It was sent to Thompson Bishop Sparks State Diagnostic Lab in Auburn AL. Yes you can have your feed and hay tested there. For a whole list of items.  From Cyanide, Nitrates and Nitrites, minerals, etc. There are quite a few. Go to their web page and look.Â
Â
I did not mean to imply anything. I also did not mean anything about ionophores sprayed on hay as far as overspray, that is foolish to imply that I am that simple. I am asking the question that considering the fact that a horses diet should primarily be grass or hay vs the small amount of feed intake that maybe we have an unknown hay or grass issue. I was asking if anyone has actually had their hay or grass tested for contaminants. My guess is no. Why would we? But maybe we should. People spray private property with specs for their land not our horse land which could have overspray. Deer, who cares, I mean ionophores are safe for cattle. We are not talking apples to apples on that. Most people test hay for quality not for poison. Just something that has crossed my mind.
I have heard of organic produce growers who have claimed to be chemical free until they are tested and run off from neighboring fields have shown they are in fact chemically altered. It is the same with a big salmonella scare when a organic farm had their produce recalled due to the fact of wild hogs running thru their crop at night and spreading diseased feces on the ground and crop. It is not a far leap. That is all I am saying. | |
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Hugs to You
Posts: 7550
Location: In The Land of Cotton | Okay - now we know what we are trying to say via the key board. We have not tested for chemicals on our hay, just because we have not thought about it. However, since the scare we have had, we probably will when we get our first round bales. And, I will send it to Auburn, as they do it. We feed minimal grain products, so hay quality is important to our feed program.
I know of people who have had animals posioned from run off in the water source. So that is conceivable. And, wild hogs will poop where ever they want, so yes they could contaminate.
I can control my feed intakes, but we cannot control animals coming into our fields. My husband will not use chicken litter anymore on the pecan trees because in the last couple of years there has been contamination in the Almond industry and huge recalls. We also will not purchase hay from a field fertilized with litter. We might be over cautious, but we prefer to error on the side of caution.
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Blessed 
Location: Here | Zebra Racer I never implied you were simple. You made an unclear comment (or at least to me unclear). I am not worried about my hay as I know where it is at and what is used on it. We do not use litter in this part of the country to fertilize with. I am mainly concerned at this point with KNOWN Feed mills that are using UNSAFE processing methods for making horse feed. So yes, I was confused about your comment because I personally have made serious feed changes and the proof is in the horses. Attitude, health and attitude are great improved. Their hay and pasture have remained the same so it was the feed.... | |
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| Â I'm confused. Why would a commercial hay grower put ionophores in their hay? Typically cows being fed hay aren't necessarily being fed out for slaughter. Ionophores are added to things like grain and silage when commercial feeders are finishing the cattle out for slaughter. Hay (unless it's in cube or pellet form) isn't a processed feed. So while I understand testing hay for nutritional value, why would you waste money testing for other things unless there was a problem? All these horses coming up with ionophore intoxication have all been traced to contaminated grain, not baled hay. It did I miss something in the earlier posts? | |
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Blessed
Location: Here | SKM - 2015-04-23 5:18 PM I'm confused. Why would a commercial hay grower put ionophores in their hay? Typically cows being fed hay aren't necessarily being fed out for slaughter. Ionophores are added to things like grain and silage when commercial feeders are finishing the cattle out for slaughter. Hay (unless it's in cube or pellet form) isn't a processed feed. So while I understand testing hay for nutritional value, why would you waste money testing for other things unless there was a problem? All these horses coming up with ionophore intoxication have all been traced to contaminated grain, not baled hay. It did I miss something in the earlier posts?
Whew. Glad I was not the only one that read it that way and drawed the same conclusions | |
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Hugs to You
Posts: 7550
Location: In The Land of Cotton | Let's just face it Zebra Racer - the feed mills have let people down. They have in the past and will continue to mix cattle feeds with additives that can harm and kill horses. They do it because:
1. They don't want to spend the money on separate production lines.
2. Because they usually have more money then the average consumer, and
3. Because they use outdated information and test results.
Clearly, all of the additives which kill or harm horses have labels stating Do Not Feed to Horses. Yet, mills continue their bad practices. The mills think they will not get caught or "it just isn't enough" because we mix tons at a time.
Money is at the bottom of this all. Money lost to the feed mill, whether they are a big feed mill or a mom and pop operation. But, it is the animal owner who pays. | |
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Regular
Posts: 63
| 3canstorun - 2015-04-23 2:02 PM
Okay - now we know what we are trying to say via the key board. We have not tested for chemicals on our hay, just because we have not thought about it. However, since the scare we have had, we probably will when we get our first round bales. And, I will send it to Auburn, as they do it.  We feed minimal grain products, so hay quality is important to our feed program.Â
I know of people who have had animals posioned from run off in the water source. So that is conceivable.  And, wild hogs will poop where ever they want, so yes they could contaminate.Â
I can control my feed intakes, but we cannot control animals coming into our fields. My husband will not use chicken litter anymore on the pecan trees because in the last couple of years there has been contamination in the Almond industry and huge recalls.  We also will not purchase hay from a field fertilized with litter. We might be over cautious, but we prefer to error on the side of caution.Â
Â
Thank you for understanding my question 3cans.
Sorry I was unclear SG. I will say from my years of lurking on here, I never knew you had issues with your horses especially lately. I thought you had proven winners and prospects that looked and rode great? Did you infact test your feed and it was proven tainted? Forgive me if I missed that. I lost myself in the pages and pages on this issue. What did you feed and what do you feed now?
I am on your side. I agree we need to support or choose the best we can on ionphore free mills. You would be surpised at those who know feed is not labeled for horses and still feed it because it is cheap. Creep and cubes labeled as all natural. Just like cigarettes warning label though people still smoke. Educate don't bash is my suggestion. Because everyone knows that Blue Bonnet is triple the cost of your local mill and not accessable to all states and not everyone can afford that cost. This is a great tool to get people thinking about colic issues and I know Rachelle has got people to pay attention. THANK YOU
My point was there are likely tons of other issues that are getting blamed on ionophores right now but it is the hot button issue.
Corn is in a lot of feed stuffs even supplements and it can cause multiple issues. I bet more mills don't test corn than mills that use ionophore? Here is an example of issues that can show similar symptoms and not be ionophore.
http://www.myhorseuniversity.com/resources/eTips/November_2010/Didy...
And for the record, I mentioned again but it has been missed. I DID NOT SAY IONOPHORES ON HAY. I asked if people tested for contaminants since hay should be a horse primary intake. Not meaning testing for ionophore but whatever chemicals or viruses and molds could be on hay. That's all.
I appreciate the education and experience of many of those on here and thank you for the discussion even if I feel like an outsider of the club.
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | I'm learning more about all of this every day. I have made some amazing contacts that have had my poor mind spinning with questions and discussions on nutrition and toxicology. Most recently we have been focusing on a specific plan with our horses to see if we will be able to rehab them to their former condition. We are seeing great results with the Bluebonnet feed, supplements, and mineral. I know that it's not available in all areas, but this feed has shown me beyond a doubt that a more expensive feed can be fed cheaper than a lesser quality/less expensive feed. Don't get me wrong...it's been VERY expensive to run this little experiment, but the results have been well worth it. If you feed most cheaper feeds by the recommendation it ends up costing just as much as the Bluebonnet feed...and then nearly everyone on this board is buying $$$$ in supplements. The Bluebonnet Omega Force needs nothing other than a free choice mineral and good quality forage to keep one looking great.
I just thought that my 28 year old mare looked good on Purina Sr Active....I have her on Bluebonnet Intensify Sr now and she looks AMAZING. | |
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Blessed
Location: Here | Zebra racer - 2015-04-28 2:56 PM 3canstorun - 2015-04-23 2:02 PM Okay - now we know what we are trying to say via the key board. We have not tested for chemicals on our hay, just because we have not thought about it. However, since the scare we have had, we probably will when we get our first round bales. And, I will send it to Auburn, as they do it. We feed minimal grain products, so hay quality is important to our feed program.
I know of people who have had animals posioned from run off in the water source. So that is conceivable. And, wild hogs will poop where ever they want, so yes they could contaminate.
I can control my feed intakes, but we cannot control animals coming into our fields. My husband will not use chicken litter anymore on the pecan trees because in the last couple of years there has been contamination in the Almond industry and huge recalls. We also will not purchase hay from a field fertilized with litter. We might be over cautious, but we prefer to error on the side of caution.
Thank you for understanding my question 3cans. Sorry I was unclear SG. I will say from my years of lurking on here, I never knew you had issues with your horses especially lately. I thought you had proven winners and prospects that looked and rode great? Did you infact test your feed and it was proven tainted? Forgive me if I missed that. I lost myself in the pages and pages on this issue. What did you feed and what do you feed now? I am on your side. I agree we need to support or choose the best we can on ionphore free mills. You would be surpised at those who know feed is not labeled for horses and still feed it because it is cheap. Creep and cubes labeled as all natural. Just like cigarettes warning label though people still smoke. Educate don't bash is my suggestion. Because everyone knows that Blue Bonnet is triple the cost of your local mill and not accessable to all states and not everyone can afford that cost. This is a great tool to get people thinking about colic issues and I know Rachelle has got people to pay attention. THANK YOU My point was there are likely tons of other issues that are getting blamed on ionophores right now but it is the hot button issue. Corn is in a lot of feed stuffs even supplements and it can cause multiple issues. I bet more mills don't test corn than mills that use ionophore? Here is an example of issues that can show similar symptoms and not be ionophore. http://www.myhorseuniversity.com/resources/eTips/November_2010/Didy... And for the record, I mentioned again but it has been missed. I DID NOT SAY IONOPHORES ON HAY. I asked if people tested for contaminants since hay should be a horse primary intake. Not meaning testing for ionophore but whatever chemicals or viruses and molds could be on hay. That's all. I appreciate the education and experience of many of those on here and thank you for the discussion even if I feel like an outsider of the club.
I used to mix my own grain using steam rolled barley but several years ago the Nutrena Barley was horribly bad and was tested by the Oklahoma dept of ag and they were told to pull it from the shelves. I tried to continue but finding clean real grain was impossible. Fast forward, my husband got hurt got rid of all the horses except a couple of geldings that made the move with us to Texas. They had decent grass and did decent on Total Equine but I wasn't thrille with how they looked. Fast forward again 18 months ago we got our first mare. She was in poor shape, older with hardly any teeth left. I still couldn't find clean real grain anymore so I had to change the feed program. They (mares we had acquired) on Safe Choice. The weanlings started declining on it, then the mares started declining on it and then I found moldly clumbs in it. We changed to ADM. Then things got worse. No I did not test as I took ADM's word that their feed was safe. We however did return it to the dealer for a full refund. Then we switched to Blue Bonnet.
Now when I say declining most people would think they still looked good, But I am picky and I know what my horses look like and their condition in monitored daily and reviewed. The attitudes got worse. The attitudes are better now and so are their conditions | |
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Blessed
Location: Here | rachellyn80 - 2015-04-28 3:25 PM I'm learning more about all of this every day. I have made some amazing contacts that have had my poor mind spinning with questions and discussions on nutrition and toxicology. Most recently we have been focusing on a specific plan with our horses to see if we will be able to rehab them to their former condition. We are seeing great results with the Bluebonnet feed, supplements, and mineral. I know that it's not available in all areas, but this feed has shown me beyond a doubt that a more expensive feed can be fed cheaper than a lesser quality/less expensive feed. Don't get me wrong...it's been VERY expensive to run this little experiment, but the results have been well worth it. If you feed most cheaper feeds by the recommendation it ends up costing just as much as the Bluebonnet feed...and then nearly everyone on this board is buying $$$$ in supplements. The Bluebonnet Omega Force needs nothing other than a free choice mineral and good quality forage to keep one looking great.
I just thought that my 28 year old mare looked good on Purina Sr Active....I have her on Bluebonnet Intensify Sr now and she looks AMAZING.
What free choice mineral are you feeding? | |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | SG. - 2015-04-28 4:06 PM rachellyn80 - 2015-04-28 3:25 PM I'm learning more about all of this every day. I have made some amazing contacts that have had my poor mind spinning with questions and discussions on nutrition and toxicology. Most recently we have been focusing on a specific plan with our horses to see if we will be able to rehab them to their former condition. We are seeing great results with the Bluebonnet feed, supplements, and mineral. I know that it's not available in all areas, but this feed has shown me beyond a doubt that a more expensive feed can be fed cheaper than a lesser quality/less expensive feed. Don't get me wrong...it's been VERY expensive to run this little experiment, but the results have been well worth it. If you feed most cheaper feeds by the recommendation it ends up costing just as much as the Bluebonnet feed...and then nearly everyone on this board is buying $$$$ in supplements. The Bluebonnet Omega Force needs nothing other than a free choice mineral and good quality forage to keep one looking great.
I just thought that my 28 year old mare looked good on Purina Sr Active....I have her on Bluebonnet Intensify Sr now and she looks AMAZING. What free choice mineral are you feeding?
I'm feeding the Bluebonnet Element mineral. They are going through it like candy still, but they have assured me that once they get balanced again they'll taper off. It's been over a month and they still eat every bit that I put out for them....but with the results that we've seen I'm not going to complain. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | My horse has been so much healthier and has been thriving since I've been paying attention to what I feed him. These forums helped both my horses so much!
He is a very sensitive guy. Glad I got a hold of the original post about feed on here when people started getting curious about "grain free" diets. It has helped him so much to be pulled off all the crap I had him on. Very thankful we have a community that will answer serious questions about horse health point blank here on BHW and who also have research they've done themselves to back up their beliefs and opinions. BRAVO!
The grain made my boy sick, the supplements/meds hid the symptoms. And I was the idiot that bought into it all.... But not anymore.
Thanks guys!!!! | |
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Blessed
Location: Here | rachellyn80 - 2015-04-28 4:21 PM SG. - 2015-04-28 4:06 PM rachellyn80 - 2015-04-28 3:25 PM I'm learning more about all of this every day. I have made some amazing contacts that have had my poor mind spinning with questions and discussions on nutrition and toxicology. Most recently we have been focusing on a specific plan with our horses to see if we will be able to rehab them to their former condition. We are seeing great results with the Bluebonnet feed, supplements, and mineral. I know that it's not available in all areas, but this feed has shown me beyond a doubt that a more expensive feed can be fed cheaper than a lesser quality/less expensive feed. Don't get me wrong...it's been VERY expensive to run this little experiment, but the results have been well worth it. If you feed most cheaper feeds by the recommendation it ends up costing just as much as the Bluebonnet feed...and then nearly everyone on this board is buying $$$$ in supplements. The Bluebonnet Omega Force needs nothing other than a free choice mineral and good quality forage to keep one looking great.
I just thought that my 28 year old mare looked good on Purina Sr Active....I have her on Bluebonnet Intensify Sr now and she looks AMAZING. What free choice mineral are you feeding?
Thanks!!! | |
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  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | rachellyn80, I would encourage you to research the benefits of curcurmin in both our and our horses diet. After having gone through everything I have with my colt and him being terribly sick and non-responsive to anti-biotics, steroids, and other treatments I was about to pull my hair out. This colt couldn't take a deep breath at all even on 8 cc of Ventipulmin. It was bad. Very stiff, very depressed, very body sore, very sick. I'd be happy to share the entire story with you, but too long to type here. Long story short, in less than 2 weeks on the Cur-Ost product my colt has bloomed, is taking deep breaths, snorting and running around, and his cough is down to once during a 10 minute exercise session. I've been given the green light to start lightly riding him again.
One of the weirdest changes i've seen is that this horse has always been real "tickle-ish" and flinchy when you brush him and has never liked to be groomed or brushed at all. It's all over his body, so I have always tried to use a really soft brush. He's always been worse toward the back part of his belly and flank area....even on Gastro-guard and or other omeprazole and ranitidine treaments even before he was sick. Not all, but most of it's gone away. He's not nearly as tickle-ish and almost acts like he enjoys being brushed.
Prior to the Cur-Ost, I had already changed my feed to the Bluebonnet about 45 days prior to that. I just don't think he was able to utilize it until we addressed the inflammation within his digestive system (leaky gut syndrome), which was then creating a hyperactive response in his immune system. I'd be happy to share all of my emails with Dr. Schell regarding all of this, as it makes complete sense to me, especially given the problems you're experiencing originated in the digestive tract. I'm a HUGE supplement skeptic and not a bandwagon person at all, but i'm telling you right now, i'm 100% sold on this. The proof is in the pudding for me and my horse is a completely different horse, inside and out! Shoot me your email and i'll forward all of the info he's given me.
Now, take a look at these pictures. The first one is March 23. The second one is April 25. I would say that 80% of this progress has been in the last two weeks since starting the Cur-Ost!
Edited by Herbie 2015-04-28 4:56 PM
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Blessed
Location: Here | Herbie he looks fantastic! | |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | SG. - 2015-04-28 5:08 PM
Herbie he looks fantastic!Â
Thank you, SG, you should have the emails now. :) | |
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Blessed
Location: Here | Thank you. got them | |
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Regular
Posts: 63
| SG. - 2015-04-28 4:06 PM
rachellyn80 - 2015-04-28 3:25 PM I'm learning more about all of this every day. Â I have made some amazing contacts that have had my poor mind spinning with questions and discussions on nutrition and toxicology. Â Most recently we have been focusing on a specific plan with our horses to see if we will be able to rehab them to their former condition. Â We are seeing great results with the Bluebonnet feed, supplements, and mineral. Â I know that it's not available in all areas, but this feed has shown me beyond a doubt that a more expensive feed can be fed cheaper than a lesser quality/less expensive feed. Â Don't get me wrong...it's been VERY expensive to run this little experiment, but the results have been well worth it. If you feed most cheaper feeds by the recommendation it ends up costing just as much as the Bluebonnet feed...and then nearly everyone on this board is buying $$$$ in supplements. Â The Bluebonnet Omega Force needs nothing other than a free choice mineral and good quality forage to keep one looking great.
I just thought that my 28 year old mare looked good on Purina Sr Active....I have her on Bluebonnet Intensify Sr now and she looks AMAZING.Â
What free choice mineral are you feeding?Â
Thank you for asking this, I was going to ask the same question and I see the answer. It is a loose mineral and how much are you putting out? May I ask what your avg cost per day is to feed the Blue Bonnet and the cost of the SR horse?
SG I am also happy to hear you didn't have a test that showed your feed to be contaminated. | |
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